Official Stage Discussion

[MegaMissingno]

I really like the idea of Pictochat, but not so much the implementation. I'd love to see it remade with serious transformations, perhaps it'd be the perfect candidate for that "Greatest Hits" stage idea discussed a little while ago.

 

[GFooChombey]

I really like Pictochat. I like what you did to reduce some of the chaos without stripping it of its casual appeal, though I'd doubles on it either way. I think we've talked about this stage before and specifically about how annoying it would be to edit a transformation, but I think the random explosions from the removed missiles with no hitboxes seem out of place and shouldn't be there. But either way I love transforming stages and drawings is a neat way to handle it. I want to see new transforming stages in PM.

I think you could go a couple ways as far as alts go. One would be having an "M" version of the stage that has been edited. Throw in a couple brand new unique transformations to justify it then make the alt the vanilla stage. Transformations could be inspired by past stages as we've mentioned such as Melee Peach's Castle and 64 Yoshi's, but could also be inspired by the music selections on the stage. One with stacked viruses you can climb on, one sports themed, a kitchen for Cooking Navi, and something (but I don't know what) to represent the Wii channels.
Another idea is using this slot to represent R.O.B. As it is, the poor guy doesn't have a home stage. Not that I think of the DS as just an accessory like him, but it's the closest thing to him so the alt could be designed as his home stage based on Gyromite and Stack-Up.

Spoiler

Maybe even reference that Retrozone 8bit Xmas thing I'm reading about.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Oop, wasn't expecting FoD to pass so quickly. I think it's a pretty good stage: the thin, low, moving platforms are interesting elements, and the stage's asymmetry really squeezes the most out of them. The sides are way too close, but that's the only major issue.


PictoChat is… alright as it is. There's a lot I can imagine that could make it better, but none a drastic revamp.
As for alts, Flipnote and the eShop both have distinctive appearances and hallmarks that could be worked into any kind of stage, would fit with the tracks, and even might reasonably be considered part of the same series. I particularly like the thought of using the latter to advertise currently available games as a show of good faith toward Nintendo. I might repost my eShop idea later if I get time to do a good writeup.

 

[Sandfall]

Castle Siege got some new colors for this update! If you enjoyed the original transforming version, don't worry, it will still be available as an alternate stage.

The method used to make this stage possible was actually discovered after the trailer had dropped. Because of 3.6's unexpected delay, the art team had the time to create this extra stage. We hope you enjoy it!

 

[GFooChombey]

I'm really surprised nobody else has much to say about Pictochat, but I'm glad you did this.

Why not transforming like 3.0 when it just skipped the middle part? But this looks pretty neat and it's better than nothing. Edit: I forgot to mention what I like about this stage. I love the ramp in the middle for fun wavedashes and strange things from Ivy's dtilt.

How small is this stage compared to WarioWare?

 

[Sandfall]

I'm really surprised nobody else has much to say about Pictochat, but I'm glad you did this.

Why not transforming like 3.0 when it just skipped the middle part? But this looks pretty neat and it's better than nothing. Edit: I forgot to mention what I like about this stage. I love the ramp in the middle for fun wavedashes and strange things from Ivy's dtilt.

How small is this stage compared to WarioWare?

3.0's version was in the awkward position where it only appealed to a select few people. Most casual players didn't like it, while most competitive players thought the transformation was too "jank." That's why we brought back the original and made a version for competitive players to enjoy.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Just to comment on Pictochat. I really like the drawing mechanic of the stage. It's really unique for a transforming stage. I also think that a R.O.B. stage based off Gyromite or something would work well.

 

[GFooChombey]

3.0's version was in the awkward position where it only appealed to a select few people. Most casual players didn't like it, while most competitive players thought the transformation was too "jank." That's why we brought back the original and made a version for competitive players to enjoy.

That makes sense. Ah well.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I have nothing positive to say about this. I expect it to turn out like every other time, but hope for the better.

 

[himemiya]

Castle Siege got some new colors for this update! If you enjoyed the original transforming version, don't worry, it will still be available as an alternate stage.

The method used to make this stage possible was actually discovered after the trailer had dropped. Because of 3.6's unexpected delay, the art team had the time to create this extra stage. We hope you enjoy it!

Finally!!! Our dreams of a frozen castle seige becomes reality. Also that beautiful scene data.

 

[Nefnoj]

Castle Siege got some new colors for this update! If you enjoyed the original transforming version, don't worry, it will still be available as an alternate stage.

I am so happy that you added new colours! I've always been hoping for something similar for Norfair and Distant planet as well. In my personal build for the former, all I did was change the lights from green to purple. Was the size changed at all? It's hard for me to tell.

The method used to make this stage possible was actually discovered after the trailer had dropped. Because of 3.6's unexpected delay, the art team had the time to create this extra stage. We hope you enjoy it!

What's this new method?

 

[Nefnoj]

It's been an awkward while since the last comment, and there was something on my mind - Stages confirmed and stages confirmed for alts. What do people want to see, and what has been confirmed already? We had this discussion before, but since the Sunset Castle Siege discussion isn't really going anywhere, and we have more information in regard to the 3.6 update, it might be good to reintroduce it.

The spoiler tags are not doing what I want them to, whyyy?

Spoiler

All the stuff in red is just my own personal hopes, dreams or unconfirmed guess

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Page 1:
Skyworld - Skyworld (Brawl)
Hyrule Castle - Hyrule Castle 64,
Metal Cavern - Metal Cavern 64,
Bowser's Castle - I would love to see a remastered version of Mewtwo2000's SM64 Vs Bowser (All in 1) stage as the Bowser's Castle alt. Maybe with platforms from his popular Bowser's Castle stage.
Saffron City - Saffron City 64,
Peach's Castle - Peach's Castle 64,
Infinite Glacier - Summit,
Lylat Cruise - Venom
WarioWare - WarioWare (Brawl),
Fountain of Dreams - Green Greens
Final Destination - Final Destination (Brawl)
Yoshi's Island - Yoshi's Island 64
Distant Planet - Distant Planet (Brawl)
Norfair - Norfair (Brawl)
Yoshi Story - Yoshi's Island
Green Hill Zone - Green Hill Zone (Brawl),
Smashville - Smashville (K.K.)
Battlefield (Brawl) - Battlefield (Melee),
Pokémon Stadium 2 - Pokemon Stadium.
Delfino's Secret - Delfino Plaza,
Dreamland - Dreamland 64,

Page 2:

Shadow Moses Island
Kongo Jungle (eventually) - Kongo Jungle 64,
Fourside - New Pork City,
Onett - Earthbound Battle Screen (As we discussed earlier)
Big Blue - Mute City
Port Town Aero Dive (Never noticed until today that it says "Dive" instead of "Drive".)
Flat Zone 2 - Flat Zone
Luigi's Mansion - Luigi's Mansion (Melee Peach's Castle clone)
Jungle Japes - Kongo Jungle (Melee)
Corneria - Sector Z,
Brinstar - Planet Zebes,
Temple - Skyloft
Pirate Ship - remastered Great Bay (using resources and styling from Majora's Mask 3D omg I'm begging you)
Spear Pillar - Poké Floats
Training Room - CEO Boxing Ring: Project M All-Star Versus Trailer (in my build, I'm just gonna replace it with the Smash 4 boxing ring anyway)
Rumble Falls - Rumble Falls (Brawl)
Halberd
Frigate Orpheon - Non-rotating Frigate Orpheon
Sunset Castle Siege - Castle Siege (Brawl)
Hanenbow - Hanenbow (Brawl)
Pictochat

 

[flintconfirmed]

Really excited to finally have a playable Fire Emblem stage. Will it be titled Castle Siege still? I'd like to see it renamed to something, possibly the previously mentioned Archanea Castle, as it was probably influence for the stage design anyway.

It would be rather cool I think.

 

[Player -0]

It's being called Sunset Castle Siege afaik.

Going from the name of the title of the thread. I think it was also posted somewhere as the same name.

 

[Akuji the Sniper]

I thought it would be funny if the alt for Pictochat was a version with no transformations and the Wireless symbol at the top was red and showed no bars, as if the person has no connection so nobody can write anything.

 

[Sandfall]

I am so happy that you added new colours! I've always been hoping for something similar for Norfair and Distant planet as well. In my personal build for the former, all I did was change the lights from green to purple. Was the size changed at all? It's hard for me to tell.
What's this new method?

Size is the same, blastzones too. The new method was basically finding a value in the .rel that controlled the amount of frames it took for Castle Siege to transform. After I found it, all I had to do was set that to "-1" and the stage would never transform.

It's being called Sunset Castle Siege afaik.

Going from the name of the title of the thread. I think it was also posted somewhere as the same name.

It's actually still Castle Siege. I just named the thread that to differentiate it from the original Castle Siege.

I thought it would be funny if the alt for Pictochat was a version with no transformations and the Wireless symbol at the top was red and showed no bars, as if the person has no connection so nobody can write anything.

Like this?

This isn't actually going to be the alt, I just did it for fun

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I thought it would be funny if the alt for Pictochat was a version with no transformations and the Wireless symbol at the top was red and showed no bars, as if the person has no connection so nobody can write anything.

That doesn't sound like a very fun alt though. Just a flat stage.

 

[Nefnoj]

Heh, good luck trying to think of unique alts for Pictochat. All I could come up with was cut stages.

Oooor... Maybe some sort of credits for the Project M team? It wouldn't be visible on the menu, if anything, a little easter egg, scrolling through the name of each member.

Size is the same, blastzones too. The new method was basically finding a value in the .rel that controlled the amount of frames it took for Castle Siege to transform. After I found it, all I had to do was set that to "-1" and the stage would never transform.
It's actually still Castle Siege. I just named the thread that to differentiate it from the original Castle Siege.

I love it when stuff like that happens. What program do you use to mess with .rel files?

 

[Sandfall]

I love it when stuff like that happens. What program do you use to mess with .rel files?

I just used Brawlbox, but you can use a hex editor as well.

 

[flintconfirmed]

Heh, good luck trying to think of unique alts for Pictochat. All I could come up with was cut stages.

I think it would be cool to have the alt be a stage based off the Homebrew Channel.

The background could do that bubble thing when characters overlap them.

 

[GFooChombey]

I think it would be cool to have the alt be a stage based off the Homebrew Channel.

The background could do that bubble thing when characters overlap them.

Though I don't think they should directly reference that because we like being hackless... I wouldn't be opposed to adding a bubbly drawing to pictochat.

 

[standardtoaster]

I think you have the wrong thread haha.

 

[Sandfall]

Now that the beta version of 3.6 is out, feel free to share your stage feedback here. If you encounter any bugs, oddities, or mistakes regarding stages, please share them here too!


Enjoy 3.6!

 

[Nefnoj]

Bowser's castle is a perfect stage! I wuv it! It seems small, I wish it had a platform or two.

I used a timer on Saffron City HD and the lights flickered a bit! It was near sunset. I also almost tried jumping on a building near the bottom left, hurdy dur. Don't know if that's feedback or stupidity on my part.

 

[GFooChombey]

Reposting some easter eggs so far. I'll post some opinions after playing on the stages a little more.

Bowser's Castle

Spoiler

Saffron City

Spoiler

Peach's Castle 64

Spoiler

 

[flintconfirmed]

I can't wait to get over to my friends house to play it. I'm stuck here, at the mercy of anyone
willing to upload screens or streams.

I really want to see the New New Pork City

 

[Beach]

I quite like the new stages and the ability to go to the original forms of the stages is fantastic (Lol 64 Corneria). I have to say my favorite (redesign wise) is Melee Battlefield, the backgrounds are awesome! On the note of Pictochat I feel it has potential but I can't say I'm a fan of the transformation, they feel more frustrating than fun and always seem to interfere even in a casual setting.

 

[Xermo]

Imo brawl fd should've been selectable via asl, especially if you guys aren't planning on making your own FD design.

 

[Rᴏb]

Brawl BF should be the alternate version of the stage. iirc all of the other stages have their vanilla brawl versions as alternates and this is the one exception.

 

[Draco_The]

I agree with Brawl FD being the alternate version of Melee's FD.

Regarding Bowser's Castle, my main complaints have to do with things that I guess are impossible: stepping on the side platforms triggers the Thwomps and some sounds for them, especially when destroying the platforms. I also think that the animation of the Koopa in the background is kinda... creepy. Too slow and he doesn't blink or anything.

Also, I found a problem with the ledges of that stage. If you grab Bowser and wait in the right ledge of the main platform until the right platform appears again, Bowser will be pushed to above that platform. But that isn't the case for the left ledge. Instead, Bowser isn't pushed and remains grabbed to the ledge. Sometimes if you jump or do something you're pushed to above that platform but some other times not.

I tried it with Mario and he gets pushed to above the platform in both ledges. IDK if more characters have this problem.

Also, I think the wave of lava from Brawl Norfair should have way higher knockback. Perphaps even OHKO knockback.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Brawl FD is ugly. Let's get 64 FD.

 

[Sandfall]

Okay, I'm going to be transparent here: Brawl FD wasn't included for a few reasons

1. It has different proportions to Melee FD (and we want our alts to be tournament legal)
2. We don't want to introduce something we might remove in a later patch (since our current self-imposed rule is 1 alt per stage)
3. A lot of those on the team feel it's kinda bland in comparison to all the other FDs (My personal opinion on FD's aesthetics go: Smash 4>Melee>N64>Brawl)
4.. We still haven't decided what we're gonna do with the ASL slot for FD

It's not "cuz melee", I assure you

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Okay, I'm going to be transparent here: Brawl FD wasn't included for a few reasons

1. It has different proportions to Melee FD (and we want our alts to be tournament legal)
2. We don't want to introduce something we might remove in a later patch (since our current self-imposed rule is 1 alt per stage)
3. A lot of those on the team feel it's kinda bland in comparison to all the other FDs (My personal opinion on FD's aesthetics go: Smash 4>Melee>N64>Brawl)
4.. We still haven't decided what we're gonna do with the ASL slot for FD

It's not "cuz melee", I assure you

What do you mean by the different proportions? I mean, aren't all alts (aside from 64 skins) different? Just curious. Also, I guess that means there might be a PM FD in the future.

Unrelated. I miss the disappearing clouds on Yoshi's Story 64. It made the stage really interesting. Were they removed for technical reasons or was it a decision? Also, R.I.P bottom right hand corner cloud.

 

[Sandfall]

What do you mean by the different proportions? I mean, aren't all alts (aside from 64 skins) different? Just curious. Also, I guess that means there might be a PM FD in the future.

Unrelated. I miss the disappearing clouds on Yoshi's Story 64. It made the stage really interesting. Were they removed for technical reasons or was it a decision? Also, R.I.P bottom right hand corner cloud.

I tried way too hard to get them to work T_T

Spoiler

EDIT: whoops, forgot to answer the first part of the question. I guess I worded it wrong. We don't want to cause any confusion over legality with different FDs. Norfair and such aren't a problem since they are obviously different stages from their alts. It's not obvious at first that Brawl FD is slightly different, and we don't want to further complicate people's rulesets by adding a clause similar to Omegas and Miiverse in Smash 4.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I tried way too hard to get them to work T_T

Spoiler

EDIT: whoops, forgot to answer the first part of the question. I guess I worded it wrong. We don't want to cause any confusion over legality with different FDs. Norfair and such aren't a problem since they are obviously different stages from their alts. It's not obvious at first that Brawl FD is slightly different, and we don't want to further complicate people's rulesets by adding a clause similar to Omegas and Miiverse in Smash 4.

Maybe some day.

 

[Xermo]

With that being the case, I could only hope that one attempts to make this a thing once more:

 

[Draco_The]

I tried way too hard to get them to work T_T

Spoiler

Dang, you were close. Don't give up!

 

[GFooChombey]

Time to do a first impressions bit for each stage:

Bowser's Castle

Spoiler

I love this stage. Hazards are fun, the music is awesome.. I want more stages like this. I just want to know why the Thwomps make no sound when they destroy the platforms. Is that a bug or a current limitation? Another bug is that the spawn platforms are all in the same spot so when you respawn at the same time; there's overlap.

Delfino's Secret

Spoiler

Great use of the work that was put into Dracula's Castle but thematically appropriate for the game. Sometimes I find the colors a little harsh on the eyes, but I like the visuals so I'll adapt. I can only imagine how long it took to create all of this. Good on you. Though I don't want it, I heard some people wanting Drac's back.. Would anyone on the team ever consider making an unofficial rereskin?

Melee Battlefield

Spoiler

Looks great. All the collisions and such match the primary stage, right? I'd love to see people switch between both in tournament. Is the background custom?

Saffron City HD

Spoiler

Gorgeous. The day and night cycle is fantastic. The magnet train is the best touch. This is currently my favorite HD remake. Did both of the gym signs say leader Sabrina in the Pokemon? That sounds familiar despite the fighting dojo being someone else. What's the house in the back suppose to be?

Peach's Castle HD

Spoiler

Thank you for allowing the ledges on the sliding platform to be grabbed otherwise this would be the worst Ivysaur stage. The floating bits feel a little lower to me, but I'm not sure if that's just me not used to seeing the stage in different context. Surprisingly still fun without the bumper and I didn't think it would be.

Planet Zebes

Spoiler

Though I appreciate it's inclusion because I've always preferred the stage layout of this compared to the other acid/lava ones, I wish it received the HD treatment and not just an alt. It doesn't need it's own stage slot though. Perhaps the blinding neon yellow acid could at least be toned down a bit?

Sector Z

Spoiler

Is it just me or does it actually seem bigger than 64? Either way I appreciate it being larger than Corneria. I'm also very glad the Arwing and Great Fox can shoot, but couldn't you stand on the cannons below the stage or am I remembering wrong? This is another one that would look nice in HD, but eh. I just love what the art team does.

In regards to all of the 64 stages, how close do the blastzones and stage layouts match 64? I can't explain it, but they just feel a little off. Like I said earlier, I'm not sure if that has to do with smaller character models or different physics though. Even the new blastzones on Hyrule Castle seem off despite being adjust presumably to match closer. Either way, I'm very glad the team brought these stages back. They are some of my favorite and most nostalgic.

Those are my first opinions and things are likely to change the longer I play, but we'll see! Keep up the great stage work.

Edit: I forgot to talk about the SSS. I like the layout with the smaller picture representing the alt stage, but I noticed the image quality is pretty low. Is there any way around the size limitation?

 

[Nefnoj]

Reposting some easter eggs so far. I'll post some opinions after playing on the stages a little more.

Bowser's Castle

Spoiler

Saffron City

Spoiler

Peach's Castle 64

Spoiler

Spoiler: Easter Egg

Sunshine Secret or whatever is a fully modeled Sunshine stage, and even has a hidden paintbrush.

 

[Dandy_here]

Castle Siege is now my go to counter pick. Thanks PMDT. Also, why not add 64 character skins?