Official Stage Discussion

[Bleck]

don't mind me just taking post 1000

 

[Xermo]

 

[Draco_The]

The best part of Castle Siege is destroying the statues in the second transformation.

 

[himemiya]

I know the reason why the 2nd phase is back is cause for some reason no one like the previous semi competitive cs. Well if that is the case then can the 2nd phase atleast get the tournified treatment? you know like what @ Comeback Kid said? And the cs alt can be a frozen 1st phase.

The second part is actually my favorite. It's not very competitive, but I enjoy it. I guess that most people don't like the walkoff

Walk off? BANNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Nefnoj]

Removing transformations would ruin the stage as a whole, I hate the first tiny li'l castle area a lot, it's so small difficult to play on for me, but I know a lot of people think otherwise. I'd personally like it bigger.

The shifts during transformation is rough, like the Placid Platypus said, it leads to some unexpected saves-and-deaths, especially given the visual, where you don't know exactly where or when it's safe to walk. You COULD try to make the transformation a bit more predictable. Maybe some timer, or a white Shy Guy. Not really but y'know what I mean. In addition, you could make the main platform consistent from transformation-to-transformation somehow, which would solve the walk-off problem, and the transformation uncertainty, two birds, one stone.

 

[JcFerggy]

I'm just going to copy my thoughts on Castle Siege that I made from a previous thread.

Spoiler

In previous versions of Project M, the second transformation of Castle Siege was removed. My guess would have been because of the walk off combined with the breakable statues that can eat projectiles.

My mock up here would remove the walk offs, and make the statues just background elements holding up the platforms. I would also remove or adjust the canopies on the sides for a clearer view of air fights.

Another quick note, on the 3rd transformation, would it be possible to prevent the rock from tilting back and forth and just keep it as a solid structure?

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I'm just going to copy my thoughts on Castle Siege that I made from a previous thread.

Spoiler

In previous versions of Project M, the second transformation of Castle Siege was removed. My guess would have been because of the walk off combined with the breakable statues that can eat projectiles.

My mock up here would remove the walk offs, and make the statues just background elements holding up the platforms. I would also remove or adjust the canopies on the sides for a clearer view of air fights.

Another quick note, on the 3rd transformation, would it be possible to prevent the rock from tilting back and forth and just keep it as a solid structure?

As someone else has said, breaking the statues is one of the best parts about the stage. So that's the one thing that really don't want changed.

I don't think that the stage would look right visually if there were just ledges to fall of on the side. There aren't really any other stages with walkoffs in PM (Shadow Moses?) that I can think of, so I don't see the problem with having one. It's something different, and I personally enjoy them. It's not like this stage was accepted as competitive even when the second part was gone.

Though one idea that I had to get rid of walkoffs is to adjust the arches to the side of the stage so that they're actually blocking off the sides where you fight. This could be done in one of two ways. First, you could make it so that only those two arches are broken about halfway up. This would still allow for KOing off the side of the screen, but there would be a wall that prevents walking off. Alternatively, you could keep the arches in tact, which would make the sides similar to the pillars on shadow moses, but not breakable. This may limit KO options too much, but you could always think of this mid transition as the point where you rack up damage. The second option probably wouldn't be too poplar though.

 

[Draco_The]

My mock up here would remove the walk offs,

I'm ok with th

and make the statues just background elements holding up the platforms.

Nope.

Spoiler

NopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNopeNope

 

[GFooChombey]

This stage makes me feel weird. I don't like it... Never have. Maybe it's because the first and only FE I've played was from the 3DS ambassador program. But I don't see a point in changing anything there. I'm sure a fan of the series could correct me, but I don't know what else could be used as a stage. Sure Arena Ferox would be pretty sweet, but that'll never happen. We could talk about making it more competitive, but how many TO's and players actually used it when they removed the middle transformation? I think it's best we leave this one the way it is.

 

[himemiya]

As someone else has said, breaking the statues is one of the best parts about the stage. So that's the one thing that really don't want changed.

Actually we really want the 2nd phase to be as neutral as possible so **** that ****.

 

[Nefnoj]

Actually we really want the 2nd phase to be as neutral as possible so **** that ****.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not...

 

[Sir Combee]

I love this stage except for the walk-off on the second part. I like the statues that get in the way of projectiles, but the walk-off just makes that part of the stage too campy in my experience. Also I'm not sure how, but removing the walk-off from the actual transformation sequence would be cool too.

 

[himemiya]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not...

I like I said, every stage needs to be a battlefield clone.

 

[SunJester]

Leave the breakable statues on the second phase I like them. If its at all possible remove the walk off (I dislike any and all walk offs). That's really all this stage needs.

I've always found the transitions rather weird, but that's from Brawl, it never really made sense to me. I feel like there should be an explosion or something and the ground should break, but that would be an absurd amount of work for a stage that doesn't really need it.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

So does anyone have any ideas for an alt for this stage. Does FE really have any iconic locations to go off?

 

[himemiya]

So does anyone have any ideas for an alt for this stage. Does FE really have any iconic locations to go off?

Frozen 1st phase.

 

[MegaMissingno]

If only we knew anything about Melee's scrapped Akaneia, it'd be cool if we could recreate what could've been.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I'd personally rather have another FE stage then just having the alt be a single stage of Castle Siege, but I'm not sure what it would be. I'd love to see more PM original stages in general.

 

[GFooChombey]

If only we knew anything about Melee's scrapped Akaneia, it'd be cool if we could recreate what could've been.

They could always just design their own.

 

[Xermo]

If only we knew anything about Melee's scrapped Akaneia, it'd be cool if we could recreate what could've been.

Castle Siege pretty much became whatever was left of the original idea of the stage (the first transformation anyway), according to sakurai at least.

According to Masahiro Sakurai, responding on Smabura-Ken to a fan's confusion about the Fire Emblem series' lack of a stage, a Fire Emblemstage called アカネイア王国 ("Kingdom of Archanea") was in fact planned to appear in Melee. It was intended to feature onagers slinging boulders at a castle, while dragons and mages would make appearances in an unspecified role.

Minus the dragons and mages.

 

[Nefnoj]

Castle Siege pretty much became whatever was left of the original idea of the stage (the first transformation anyway), according to sakurai at least.

Minus the dragons and mages.

Ooh! Fancy.

I read that "pieces of the stage have reportedly been uncovered from hacking". If the Project M team found the pieces, they could probably use them... Even if they were reused in the first Castle Siege stage.

 

[Cubelarooso]

I really liked the older version of the stage, but reintroducing the walk-offs of the second form absolutely ruined it. It still could've used refinement, but the concept was great.

It was a good example of a transforming stage, and just of a stage in general. It had a nice contrast between the small exterior of the castle and the large underworld, making counterpicking less clear-cut. It had a myriad of interesting elements, none of which were disruptive for players that weren't auto-piloting. Even the walk-off transitions weren't a problem, since trying to abuse them put the player in a precarious position once that part passed. I kinda think the unique strategies platform-less-ness allows aren't worth the polarization it brings, but (as is typical for extreme elements) being temporary makes it perfect. Beyond that, the third stage's mound and tilting (and wall which prevented the latter from being as contentious as on Lylat) kept it from being too barren and from being too centralized around the lack of platforms. It was what counterpicks should be.

However, I'd rather have an fixed second stage than a removed one. Just make it a balcony overlooking the throne. The statues pose a lot of strategic potential, or could be used to make some creative new elements, and maybe something could even be made from the banners.

Needless to say, freezing it on a single form would be nearly as bad as the current rendition. It'd sacrifice most of the stage's depth for none in return, and be a horrible blemish that would be difficult to heal later.

I'm not really a Fire Emblem guy, so I've little to say about alts. Just that a Golden Sun stage would fit the music, if they aren't required to be from the same series.

 

[GFooChombey]

Here's a thought.. Is it possible to set make the alt load all 3 transformations while the default just has two?

 

[Star ☆]

Castle Siege's transformations are fine on their own, I just hate how the transition can save people after they've just been gimped. Not sure how this can be avoided, however.

 

[Nefnoj]

Castle Siege's transformations are fine on their own, I just hate how the transition can save people after they've just been gimped. Not sure how this can be avoided, however.

I'm imagining giving each section of the stage a large Final Destination-esque platform:

In the first section, the castle would be built around it, not affecting gameplay, only visuals. When the stage transforms, the platform stays, allowing a visual safe zone, while the wooshing wind stuff is non-collidable.

In the second section, the platform stays, eliminating the walk-off that everybody hates, with a visual not unlike the Kalos Pokémon League, where you can see the castle in the background. The statues and curtain platforms could stay.

And lastly, the platform decays and falls apart for the last section... Obviously. Once the first section loops back, it magically fixes itself,.

At least - that's what I think could fix the problems with the stage, I'm not personally against walk-offs, but I'm the only person in the world who is.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

At least - that's what I think could fix the problems with the stage, I'm not personally against walk-offs, but I'm the only person in the world who is.

I don't mind the walk-off either. As I said before, it's something different. I don't see the problem with having it as the stage wasn't accepted competitively even with the entire second part removed.

 

[JcFerggy]

Well is there anyway to keep the breaking statues, but prevent it from stopping projectiles? I play a heavy projectile link, and I don't enjoy the stage because of it.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Break the statues. Wait for the transition. Adjust your playstyle to account for the different stage. Use a ban on the stage if you don't like it.
That's the whole point of having a different stage.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

Break the statues. Wait for the transition. Adjust your playstyle to account for the different stage.
That's the whole point of having a different stage.

I pretty much agree with this notion. I feel that one of the aspects of being a good Smash player is being able to adjust to changes with the stage. It seems that there are a lot of people that want to sterilize stages as much as possible, but that just gets old. It's nice to have basic stages that don't interfere in any way, but there are only so many ways to do those stages before it gets boring.

 

[Cubelarooso]

There's also a misguided interpretation going around as to what "interfere" means. Many seem to have gotten the idea that a stage (or character) only "interferes" and "is jank" when they can't simply autopilot. That's not a competitive mindset. WW/YS - which will just kill you 40% earlier - is much worse "interference" than Hb/YI - which one can learn about, adapt to, improve oneself on, and take creative advantage of.

 

[Sandfall]

New stage discussion!

This time, we'll discuss a stage that's been in almost every iteration of Smash: Kongo Jungle 64!

 

[himemiya]

I like the stage but too bad nothing can be done about the layout to competitivelise the stage. But theres nothing wrong with its anyways. We may as well fuse jungle japes with this stage for a hd remake, like import japes bg to kj64 and then retexture/model the stage to blend in with bg.

 

[Comeback Kid]

Needs more barrel cannon, impossible at the moment or not.

There I said what everyone is thinking, now we don't need pages of people asking about it.

 

[Draco_The]

If the barrel cannon won't make it at least make the main platform solid. That's my main problem with the stage.

 

[DMG]

I'd love to see the stage as just the main platform imo. A stage without platforms, but not totally flat.

 

[Nefnoj]

Maybe the barrel could be included as a background aesthetic.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

It's fine as is. This has always been one of my favorite stages. As others have said, the barrel would be nice if possible. I'm curious as to what the HD remake will look like, but I guess we won't see it until 4.0.

 

[Rᴏb]

There's not really much to discuss about this stage... Just make the HD version pretty.

 

[Sir Combee]

Yeah, I agree with what the others said. Combining KJ64's stage layout with Jungle Jape's aesthetic would be pretty great, and then Jape's stage slot could be used for something else. The sunset in the jungle aesthetic feels a bit overdone with having both in the game imo.

 

[ThePlacidPlatypus]

I actually love Jungle Japes, so I'd rather they don't remove it again. I'd also rather they do something fresh with the HD look. Saffron City and Hyrule Castle seem new while at the same time fitting the aesthetic.