Zro
Smash Ace
yea i know that =]
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Official stage counterpick help
- Thread starter Zro
- Start date
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
ok I'll start by saying for bowser, donkey kong, falco, fox, wolf, marth, and link, Rainbow Cruise is a great counterpick. Characters with bad jumping ability and recoveries do not do well here.
There are actually very few characters that this isn't at least a decent counterpick for since almost no character can keep up with kirby on such an aerial stage, also kirby can pressure very well from under platforms, and he can kill of the top early with upthrow at places with platforms above you. This is pretty much my default counterpick.
There are actually very few characters that this isn't at least a decent counterpick for since almost no character can keep up with kirby on such an aerial stage, also kirby can pressure very well from under platforms, and he can kill of the top early with upthrow at places with platforms above you. This is pretty much my default counterpick.
Colbert
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2008
- Messages
- 119
Generally I like Rainbow Cruise due to it's aerial nature and Pokemon Stadium 1 as a good neutral. Poke1 has a lot of cool unexpected stuff to set up Kirby's specials, especially downb.
Against Diddy Kong make sure to stay away from flat stages like Final Destination, Smashville, etc.
Against tether recovery characters, stay away from Norfair because every platform is grabbable. Norfair isn't good for Kirby in general.
Against Meta, don't choose Luigi's Mansion. This place is tornado heaven.
Against Diddy Kong make sure to stay away from flat stages like Final Destination, Smashville, etc.
Against tether recovery characters, stay away from Norfair because every platform is grabbable. Norfair isn't good for Kirby in general.
Against Meta, don't choose Luigi's Mansion. This place is tornado heaven.
Tomato Kirby
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 582
I want to say Lylat Cruise against Gannondorf to ruin his auto-canceling, since that is what he relies on.
For Kirby, my vote goes to Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise, and Battlefield.
For Kirby, my vote goes to Jungle Japes, Rainbow Cruise, and Battlefield.
OldManTellah
Smash Cadet
I like Final Destination against characters like that don't have projectiles like Marth or DK because you can use up b's projectile for spacing.
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
Frigate orpheon can be good too due to forcing characters to land on the stage with their upbs (for characters with easily punishable upbs)
i actually am starting to think that kirby is good on just about every neutral level and that you should counterpick according to your opponent. i used to think final destination was my best level. however. i played a VERY good toon link today and all that changed. the first match was on lylat cruise. the match was close, but i pulled off the win. he counterpicked FD. I was like, "oh boy golly gee!" but he two stocked me because all he did was run away , throw projectiles, and use high priority aerials (uair and dair). i had about enough of that crap so i counterpicked battlefield, and I got my revenge by two stocking him.
I think the best level is going to depend on what style your opponent forces you to play. the 2 most prominent examples i can think of are fox and toon link. against fox i am almost always being approached, and i like a flat stage like final destination. against toon link i am almost always forced to approach, and i like a stage with platforms like battlefield.
am i going out on a limb by saying that FD favors defensive play and BF favors offensive play? i may have to look into this, and learn a character that can combat my opponent's playstyle depending on the stage if my opponent is counterpicking and i can choose a counter character.
I think the best level is going to depend on what style your opponent forces you to play. the 2 most prominent examples i can think of are fox and toon link. against fox i am almost always being approached, and i like a flat stage like final destination. against toon link i am almost always forced to approach, and i like a stage with platforms like battlefield.
am i going out on a limb by saying that FD favors defensive play and BF favors offensive play? i may have to look into this, and learn a character that can combat my opponent's playstyle depending on the stage if my opponent is counterpicking and i can choose a counter character.
Brahma
Smash Journeyman
My current favorites are Rainbow Cruise for reasons already mentioned and Frigate Orpheon. It's way too easy to gimp people off the right side with Kirby there.
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
ok here are a bunch of good counterpick stages for kirby... if you want me to clarify just ask since some of them aren't good against every character (except maybe rainbow cruise)
Best neutral: Battlefield
Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Brinstar, Luigis Mansion
Best neutral: Battlefield
Rainbow Cruise, Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Brinstar, Luigis Mansion
MK26
Smash Master
If you ever feel like pissing your opponent off, Jungle Japes is absolutely the best stage for Kirby. Jump to the right of the left platform, suck your opponent up, and move directly underneath the left ledge of the middle platform like so:
1) x = Kirby
o = opponent
^^^ = water
___x_____________________
________o_________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2) x< = inhale
_____x<__________________
________o_________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
3) X = Kirby with opponent sucked up
_________________________
__________________
_______X
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
4) ???
5) Profit!
t = Kirby when taunting
0_o = opponent coming back 2 life
___________0_o
t________________________
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
---
As for being serious, the smart thing to do would be to stay away from FD with Kirby's bad/neutral matchups against people with spammable projectiles. It just makes these matchups worse. For the advantaged matchups, FD is ok.
Personal opinions:
Battlefield - very good (counterpick vs. campers)
Lylat Cruise - good
Yoshi's Story - good
Smashville - neutral
Rainbow Cruise - very good (universal counterpick
)
Green Greens - good (counterpick vs. light people and noobs
)
Halberd - good
Frigate Orpheon - good (counterpick vs. people with bad recovery/tether recovery/both)
Brinstar - neutral
1) x = Kirby
o = opponent
^^^ = water
___x_____________________
________o_________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
2) x< = inhale
_____x<__________________
________o_________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
3) X = Kirby with opponent sucked up
_________________________
__________________
_______X
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
4) ???
5) Profit!
t = Kirby when taunting
0_o = opponent coming back 2 life
___________0_o
t________________________
__________________
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
---
As for being serious, the smart thing to do would be to stay away from FD with Kirby's bad/neutral matchups against people with spammable projectiles. It just makes these matchups worse. For the advantaged matchups, FD is ok.
Personal opinions:
Battlefield - very good (counterpick vs. campers)
Lylat Cruise - good
Yoshi's Story - good
Smashville - neutral
Rainbow Cruise - very good (universal counterpick
)Green Greens - good (counterpick vs. light people and noobs
)Halberd - good
Frigate Orpheon - good (counterpick vs. people with bad recovery/tether recovery/both)
Brinstar - neutral
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
Brinstar is actually a good stage for kirby since when the lava isn't there it has an extremely large bottom area, pretty much always allowing your opponent to fall out of your mouth so you can fly back up.
Also uthrow kills just as early if not earlier on that stage.
Kirby can also split the stage with downthrow if I remember right.
And its great for ice climbers since the lava can screw up their chaingrabs (yay)
halberd and delfino are both generally good, halberd when landed also has an extremely large bottom area, and when flying the platforms for both halberd and delfino are great for kirby to float under and attack from. Delfino when floating is essentially a better battlefield.
Green Greens and Corneria I generally like to avoid since early death stages aren't too fun for a floaty puffball. But I would probably use them against lucario since early deaths can be very bad for him(he has a harder time than you getting kills since he will be at lower percents for the majority of the match)
Kirby really doesn't have any bad stages but I would generally ban Green Greens or Corneria just because I dislike the early deaths o.o
and obviously depending on the opponents character some stages give them a huge advantage and would be a better ban.
Also uthrow kills just as early if not earlier on that stage.
Kirby can also split the stage with downthrow if I remember right.
And its great for ice climbers since the lava can screw up their chaingrabs (yay)
halberd and delfino are both generally good, halberd when landed also has an extremely large bottom area, and when flying the platforms for both halberd and delfino are great for kirby to float under and attack from. Delfino when floating is essentially a better battlefield.
Green Greens and Corneria I generally like to avoid since early death stages aren't too fun for a floaty puffball. But I would probably use them against lucario since early deaths can be very bad for him(he has a harder time than you getting kills since he will be at lower percents for the majority of the match)
Kirby really doesn't have any bad stages but I would generally ban Green Greens or Corneria just because I dislike the early deaths o.o
and obviously depending on the opponents character some stages give them a huge advantage and would be a better ban.
Tomato Kirby
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Messages
- 582
MK26, you should probably change Kirby to the right side of the stage for Jungle Japes. Otherwise, Kirby gets swept away and self-destructs.
Also, I agree with TwilightKirby on his stage selection in general.
Maybe we should come up with ideas for best stages to Kirbycide/Swallowcide?
Also, I agree with TwilightKirby on his stage selection in general.
Maybe we should come up with ideas for best stages to Kirbycide/Swallowcide?
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
Like I said Brinstar has a large bottom when there isn't lava, so its much more likely for only them to die. Worst that can happen is the lava rises and you both get hit =/
Halberd when landed has a large bottom as well and also a sorta curve lol... unfortunately the curve doesn't gimp as well as FDs but yeah still large bottom= them escaping before you both die... the best for these two stages is getting a footstool off right after they escape.
Yoshi's island is horrible for kirbycide, as it seems like a lot of times when they pop out of your mouth the wall causes them to popout directly above you and when they try and jump they instant footstool you.
Jungle Japes you can't really come from behind kirbycide as well, but it can finish them if they have a higher percentage since I believe that it takes longer for them to get a jump from when they hit the water the higher percent they are. Also the multiple ledges give you plenty of places to kirbycide from. Still I don't really like to kirbycide here o.o water is annoying lol.
Rainbow Cruise can be good in some areas.. you just have to be more versatile (lol at inhaling someone before the screen goes back to the boat and both falling off the top :D) also some spots you may be able to spit the opponent of the side to their death...
Green Greens actually has a lot of space under it and if you can kirbycide by falling through the hole where the blocks should be then they can have a very hard time recovering. Still the best is to starshot them into a bomb block lol.
Rest of the stages are meh for kirbycides... Stages with water can suck though because obviously you can't fall off with water stopping you =/
Halberd when landed has a large bottom as well and also a sorta curve lol... unfortunately the curve doesn't gimp as well as FDs but yeah still large bottom= them escaping before you both die... the best for these two stages is getting a footstool off right after they escape.
Yoshi's island is horrible for kirbycide, as it seems like a lot of times when they pop out of your mouth the wall causes them to popout directly above you and when they try and jump they instant footstool you.
Jungle Japes you can't really come from behind kirbycide as well, but it can finish them if they have a higher percentage since I believe that it takes longer for them to get a jump from when they hit the water the higher percent they are. Also the multiple ledges give you plenty of places to kirbycide from. Still I don't really like to kirbycide here o.o water is annoying lol.
Rainbow Cruise can be good in some areas.. you just have to be more versatile (lol at inhaling someone before the screen goes back to the boat and both falling off the top :D) also some spots you may be able to spit the opponent of the side to their death...
Green Greens actually has a lot of space under it and if you can kirbycide by falling through the hole where the blocks should be then they can have a very hard time recovering. Still the best is to starshot them into a bomb block lol.
Rest of the stages are meh for kirbycides... Stages with water can suck though because obviously you can't fall off with water stopping you =/
MK26
Smash Master
Actually, you're right. But just because you're right doesn't mean I'm wrong. If Kirby moves from 'between the platforms' to 'underneath the left ledge of teh middle platform', there's a spot where the opponent can't move before he dies, but Kirby can escape unscathed. It's approximately where Kirby's left side is aligned with the left edge of the middle platform:
3) X = Kirby with opponent sucked up
_________________________
__________________
_______X
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
4)
If done right:
| = blastline
o = soonest possible time opponent can jump
x = soonest possible time Kirby can jump
*note: opponent can jump before Kirby can jump, but Kirby's 'crap, dude escaped mai mouth' animation takes precedence over water, so Kirby sorta floats for a small time before moving.
_____|________________________________________
_____|_________________________________
_____|
_____|
^^o^|^^^^x^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
5) Profit!
Does it make sense?
Nike.
Smash Hero
Bump
This should be heavily researched.
This should be heavily researched.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
First i'll start off by listing the stages that give Kirby the greatest advantage regardless of his opponent.
Rainbow Cruise: At the beginning and middle of this stage there is an opportunity to trap ur opponent with Neutral A. Building a ridiculous amount of damage fast ~60-999 depending on if ur opponent knows how to get out. Kirby's Uthrow after the ship crashes gets kills at 80%. Just b4 the swinging platform appears and as it is disappearing is an excellent time to suck up ur opponent and just fall then spit them out. Characters with only one jump and a normal Bup IE marth can't recover from this. The section of the stage with little blocks that fall out are a great way to trap an opponent under the stage. U inhale them while standing on one, u fall, spit them out, jump back through the whole b4 a new block appears.
Hanenbow: Great against opponents whose attacks grab the ledges or have poor vertical recovery. The various amount of ledges means that sitting around the ledge causes ur opponents attack to grab ledge instead of hitting u. Kirby's u throw can kill at 80% on the left side of the stage. Brick falls straight down the middle of the tree on this stage which is also a safe area once u are below the bottom platform.
Luigi's Mansion: If Luigi's Mansion is not a banned stage in ur area then this is a great counterpick against characters who are hard to kill b/c u also will be very hard to kill if position urself in the middle of the stage. Also the pillar underneath also means that if u suck them out and spit them under they have to come towards u making an easy stage KO. Also Uthrow is effetive if the roof is still standing killin near ~110 percent depending on ur opponent.
Halberd: An interesting stage that is not counter-picked often enough IMO. The stage is good for characters who have many jumps. Also the low ceiling means its an excellent place to counterpick MK. When the stage changes to the solid stage with the guns and what not sucking up ur opponent and spitting them out under the stage means a guaranteed KO due to the curved wall underneath and the pillar running straight down.
Given these stages and others here are the stages i think these characters should be counterpicked at.
Bowser: Rainbow Cruise, the stage will gimp him half the time u just have to keep knocking him away or do it urself. He's easy to combo in the beginning to Neutral A lock against the wall and his heavy weight means he'll be getting out of it with 150% damage at the very least.
Capt. Falcon: Anywhere will really do to b honest lol just pick ur fav stage.
Diddy Kong: Hanenbow, bananas are a huge part of Diddy's game as we all know. Finding a stage that spreads out his bananas are an ideal choice. Hanenbow does this due to the 11 small platforms around the stage making it difficult for even a good diddy kong player to manage his bananas.
Donkey Kong: Rainbow Cruise, i've beaten more skilled players than myself at this stage when they were donkey kong
Falco: Lylat Cruise If u play and spacey u need to come hear. The tilting ledge makes it hard for them to aim for the edge which means u can be more sure they are gonna go for the stage. If ur falco players is campy, the many platforms and tilted nature of the stage allows u to duck or stand on a platform and force ur opponent to come to u.
Fox: Jungle Japes The abnormally high ceiling here makes it harder for Fox to kill u upwards and the low proximity of the platforms to the water makes it easier for Fox to make a mistake then Kirby.
Game and Watch: Halberd The low ceiling and style of stage makes this better fo Kirby. G&W likes to Dair a lot meaning that if u can get a ground hammer on them it'll kill at 50% lol how cheap is that. Also Kirby's Usmash kills far earlier than normal on this stage. Coupled with one gimp u may get from spitting them under the stage when the stage is solid makes this a good place to counter MK
Ganondorf: Luigi's Mansion if nots banned for u, the platforms allow kirby to almost 0-death Ganon here, its kinda sad actually. Hanenbow or Rainbow cruise if Luigi's is banned. His slow speed and poor recovery makes Rainbow and Hanenbow obvious choices.
Ice Climbers: Frigate Orpheon The small stage and no ledge on the right side means suck one up as quickly as u can and play the remaining IC one on one or gay them to when u can. IC's small range makes them predictable if u counter with Inhale often making this match that much easier.
Ike: Jungle Japes The high ceiling makes it easier to die from Uair and Ikes horrible horizontal reovery makes this an easy choice. If u ever suck him up just fall into the water and let it do the work. Half the time u'll be able to get them one more time on the far ledges which = an autodeath for Ike.
Jigglypuff: Halberd Low ceiling makes it easier to kill Jigz
King DeDeDe: Jungle Japes or Hanenbow Hanenbow keeps u from getting tech chased but DDD can inhale u and fall FTW just as good as Kirby can so u must becareful. Jungle Japes b/c the small platforms keep u from being tech chased and DDD weight makes him prone ot falling in the water. The high ceiling helps to.
Kirby: if u think ur the better Kirby player pick a neutral stage. If u know a counterpick stage particularly well choose it.
Link: Rainbow Cruise due to Link's horrible recovery and most of the platforms dont have ledges making his tether recovery useless.
Lucario: Rainbow cruise due to his horrible Bup
Lucas: Jungle Japes IMO due to the water but Lucas is a pretty good character on any stage. Hanenbow gives his Usmash a ridiculous advantage never pick that stage
Luigi: Rainbow cruise or Frigate Orpheon due to his interesting recovery. The no ledge on the right gives Kirby more of a chance to hit him away from the stage again.
Mario: Rainbow Cruise his vertical recovery is gimped by this stage and fireballs are pretty useless on this stage.
Marth: Rainbow cruise his already bad horizontal recovery is heavily gimped by this stage.
Metaknight: Halberd His lightweight and Hat copy make it easier to kill MK on this stage than any other.
Ness: Choose the biggest stage u can find so u dont grabbed for the loss. or Pick rainbow cruise and use any of the gimps mentioned in the Rainbow cruise summary to beat Ness
Olimar: Rainbow Cruise or Hanenbow Rainbow cruise due to Olimars poor poor recovery on this stage or Hanenbow b/c if u spit him out after falling as low as safely possible from the lowest platform its an autokill
Peach: Frigate Orpheon Peaches hovering is a very solid strat for building damage with her aerials as is using her turnips. This first stage is small making hard for her to camp and the dip in the second stage makes it easier to avoid the hover.
Pikachu: Pikachu is hard to counterpick due to his amazing recovery. If i had to choose i would go hanenbow due to the platforms above me protecting me from thunder and the small platforms to keep Pika from camping thundershock
Pit: Yoshi's Island He cant fly under, if ur opponent bans this stage choose another stage with a pillar in the center
Pokemon Trainer: Rainbow cruise
R.O.B.: ahhh ROB lol i like Luigi's Mansion because it can save u a lot as i mentioned earlier however if it is banned pick a neutral stage to take advantage of his Bup Brick ***** ROB's Bup
Samus: Jungle Japes the stage makes it hard for Samus to camp and also the design of the stage makes her amazing aerials much less effective especially her Dair which spikes and has no lag.
Shiek: Rainbow Cruise the constantly moving stage makes it hard for shiek to recover and she can be easily gimped
Snake: Depending on the style of opponent u have u want to pick a very big stage or very small stage (the platform size i mean) If ur Snake player is aggressive pick a bigger stage like Rainbow cruise or to counterpick them. THe larger stage will let u counter him easier. Also if he ever Bups u can easily inhale him and spit him out lower FTW. If ur Snake player is campy pick Hanenbow the platforms makes it hard for him to camp and easy for u to avoid his nades and such.
Sonic: Not sure really lol
Toon Link: Rainbow Cruise TL's tether recovery and the more vertical nature of this stage makes ir harder for him to effectively use his projectiles.
Wario: Hanenbow might now be bad also green greens might be a very good option due to the akward design of the stage
Wolf: Lylat Cruise or Rainbow Cruise Wolf is difficult so the advantage of these two stages against his recovery is Useful
Yoshi: Not sure to be honest.
Zelda: Rainbow Cruise the nature of this tage makes her recovery very poor.
Zero Suit Samus: Hanenbow Her Forward B and Bup all are tether recoveries making it harder for her to use those attacks when facing a ledge.
Rainbow Cruise: At the beginning and middle of this stage there is an opportunity to trap ur opponent with Neutral A. Building a ridiculous amount of damage fast ~60-999 depending on if ur opponent knows how to get out. Kirby's Uthrow after the ship crashes gets kills at 80%. Just b4 the swinging platform appears and as it is disappearing is an excellent time to suck up ur opponent and just fall then spit them out. Characters with only one jump and a normal Bup IE marth can't recover from this. The section of the stage with little blocks that fall out are a great way to trap an opponent under the stage. U inhale them while standing on one, u fall, spit them out, jump back through the whole b4 a new block appears.
Hanenbow: Great against opponents whose attacks grab the ledges or have poor vertical recovery. The various amount of ledges means that sitting around the ledge causes ur opponents attack to grab ledge instead of hitting u. Kirby's u throw can kill at 80% on the left side of the stage. Brick falls straight down the middle of the tree on this stage which is also a safe area once u are below the bottom platform.
Luigi's Mansion: If Luigi's Mansion is not a banned stage in ur area then this is a great counterpick against characters who are hard to kill b/c u also will be very hard to kill if position urself in the middle of the stage. Also the pillar underneath also means that if u suck them out and spit them under they have to come towards u making an easy stage KO. Also Uthrow is effetive if the roof is still standing killin near ~110 percent depending on ur opponent.
Halberd: An interesting stage that is not counter-picked often enough IMO. The stage is good for characters who have many jumps. Also the low ceiling means its an excellent place to counterpick MK. When the stage changes to the solid stage with the guns and what not sucking up ur opponent and spitting them out under the stage means a guaranteed KO due to the curved wall underneath and the pillar running straight down.
Given these stages and others here are the stages i think these characters should be counterpicked at.
Bowser: Rainbow Cruise, the stage will gimp him half the time u just have to keep knocking him away or do it urself. He's easy to combo in the beginning to Neutral A lock against the wall and his heavy weight means he'll be getting out of it with 150% damage at the very least.
Capt. Falcon: Anywhere will really do to b honest lol just pick ur fav stage.
Diddy Kong: Hanenbow, bananas are a huge part of Diddy's game as we all know. Finding a stage that spreads out his bananas are an ideal choice. Hanenbow does this due to the 11 small platforms around the stage making it difficult for even a good diddy kong player to manage his bananas.
Donkey Kong: Rainbow Cruise, i've beaten more skilled players than myself at this stage when they were donkey kong
Falco: Lylat Cruise If u play and spacey u need to come hear. The tilting ledge makes it hard for them to aim for the edge which means u can be more sure they are gonna go for the stage. If ur falco players is campy, the many platforms and tilted nature of the stage allows u to duck or stand on a platform and force ur opponent to come to u.
Fox: Jungle Japes The abnormally high ceiling here makes it harder for Fox to kill u upwards and the low proximity of the platforms to the water makes it easier for Fox to make a mistake then Kirby.
Game and Watch: Halberd The low ceiling and style of stage makes this better fo Kirby. G&W likes to Dair a lot meaning that if u can get a ground hammer on them it'll kill at 50% lol how cheap is that. Also Kirby's Usmash kills far earlier than normal on this stage. Coupled with one gimp u may get from spitting them under the stage when the stage is solid makes this a good place to counter MK
Ganondorf: Luigi's Mansion if nots banned for u, the platforms allow kirby to almost 0-death Ganon here, its kinda sad actually. Hanenbow or Rainbow cruise if Luigi's is banned. His slow speed and poor recovery makes Rainbow and Hanenbow obvious choices.
Ice Climbers: Frigate Orpheon The small stage and no ledge on the right side means suck one up as quickly as u can and play the remaining IC one on one or gay them to when u can. IC's small range makes them predictable if u counter with Inhale often making this match that much easier.
Ike: Jungle Japes The high ceiling makes it easier to die from Uair and Ikes horrible horizontal reovery makes this an easy choice. If u ever suck him up just fall into the water and let it do the work. Half the time u'll be able to get them one more time on the far ledges which = an autodeath for Ike.
Jigglypuff: Halberd Low ceiling makes it easier to kill Jigz
King DeDeDe: Jungle Japes or Hanenbow Hanenbow keeps u from getting tech chased but DDD can inhale u and fall FTW just as good as Kirby can so u must becareful. Jungle Japes b/c the small platforms keep u from being tech chased and DDD weight makes him prone ot falling in the water. The high ceiling helps to.
Kirby: if u think ur the better Kirby player pick a neutral stage. If u know a counterpick stage particularly well choose it.
Link: Rainbow Cruise due to Link's horrible recovery and most of the platforms dont have ledges making his tether recovery useless.
Lucario: Rainbow cruise due to his horrible Bup
Lucas: Jungle Japes IMO due to the water but Lucas is a pretty good character on any stage. Hanenbow gives his Usmash a ridiculous advantage never pick that stage
Luigi: Rainbow cruise or Frigate Orpheon due to his interesting recovery. The no ledge on the right gives Kirby more of a chance to hit him away from the stage again.
Mario: Rainbow Cruise his vertical recovery is gimped by this stage and fireballs are pretty useless on this stage.
Marth: Rainbow cruise his already bad horizontal recovery is heavily gimped by this stage.
Metaknight: Halberd His lightweight and Hat copy make it easier to kill MK on this stage than any other.
Ness: Choose the biggest stage u can find so u dont grabbed for the loss. or Pick rainbow cruise and use any of the gimps mentioned in the Rainbow cruise summary to beat Ness
Olimar: Rainbow Cruise or Hanenbow Rainbow cruise due to Olimars poor poor recovery on this stage or Hanenbow b/c if u spit him out after falling as low as safely possible from the lowest platform its an autokill
Peach: Frigate Orpheon Peaches hovering is a very solid strat for building damage with her aerials as is using her turnips. This first stage is small making hard for her to camp and the dip in the second stage makes it easier to avoid the hover.
Pikachu: Pikachu is hard to counterpick due to his amazing recovery. If i had to choose i would go hanenbow due to the platforms above me protecting me from thunder and the small platforms to keep Pika from camping thundershock
Pit: Yoshi's Island He cant fly under, if ur opponent bans this stage choose another stage with a pillar in the center
Pokemon Trainer: Rainbow cruise
R.O.B.: ahhh ROB lol i like Luigi's Mansion because it can save u a lot as i mentioned earlier however if it is banned pick a neutral stage to take advantage of his Bup Brick ***** ROB's Bup
Samus: Jungle Japes the stage makes it hard for Samus to camp and also the design of the stage makes her amazing aerials much less effective especially her Dair which spikes and has no lag.
Shiek: Rainbow Cruise the constantly moving stage makes it hard for shiek to recover and she can be easily gimped
Snake: Depending on the style of opponent u have u want to pick a very big stage or very small stage (the platform size i mean) If ur Snake player is aggressive pick a bigger stage like Rainbow cruise or to counterpick them. THe larger stage will let u counter him easier. Also if he ever Bups u can easily inhale him and spit him out lower FTW. If ur Snake player is campy pick Hanenbow the platforms makes it hard for him to camp and easy for u to avoid his nades and such.
Sonic: Not sure really lol
Toon Link: Rainbow Cruise TL's tether recovery and the more vertical nature of this stage makes ir harder for him to effectively use his projectiles.
Wario: Hanenbow might now be bad also green greens might be a very good option due to the akward design of the stage
Wolf: Lylat Cruise or Rainbow Cruise Wolf is difficult so the advantage of these two stages against his recovery is Useful
Yoshi: Not sure to be honest.
Zelda: Rainbow Cruise the nature of this tage makes her recovery very poor.
Zero Suit Samus: Hanenbow Her Forward B and Bup all are tether recoveries making it harder for her to use those attacks when facing a ledge.
Nice post Gonzo. Though I'm pretty sure Hanenbow is banned around here. I'll look at my neutral/counterpick list and give my opinion on a few of the more popular characters.
For the tourney I'm going to next week:
Anyway: some of the more popular/difficult matchups for Kirby:
Snake: His down B mine gives me a lot of trouble on stages with platforms. Smashville is one that comes to mind. It's easy to forget about the mine, and get pwned when the platform is above you. Final Destination is one of my choices, sure he can camp, but his grenades are easy to catch, and you can get his power and camp back. Rainbow Cruise is good, as everyone else has already said, though I rarely think of picking it (I usually play wifi friendlies) I'll have to give it a try. Castle Siege looks like an interesting choice too, or maybe Green Greens.
Meta Knight: I haven't seen anyone else say this, but I think Pirate Ship could be a good counterpick. I dunno if it's banned where you are...but one reason it's good is because he can't stage-spike you due to the water. Some other reasons I can think of...the catapult thing can make things interesting, you could get lucky and he'll get hit by bombs...the shape of the stage allows your rock to slide around sometimes, though he can still chase and punish missed rocks if he's smart. I dunno who would have the advantage while you're falling in slow motion after the ship gets tossed up, but probably him, because he's Meta Knight -_-
What else? When the ship gets grounded, you can possible jablock him against the front of the ship. And when high tide comes in, you might get lucky and he'll get spiked by the ship. Also, when he's in the water, you can down B pretty easily.
Also, Norfair may or may not be a good idea :D
Lame and Watch: I don't really know here. Like Gonzo said, Halberd could be good. Green Greens is a good one too, in my opinion. I also kinda like Pictochat.
Donkey Kong: Rainbow Cruise...Lylat Cruise...FD, Smashville, Battlefield, Jungle Japes...anywhere you can force him to fall off due to his bad vertical recovery. Same with Bowser.
Diddy Kong: All I can really think of is Lylat Cruise...maybe Green Greens or Pictochat again.
Rob: Luigi's mansion definitely. He can't fly under the stage, you can uptilt lock him, the pillars block his gyro projectile, you can camp back with "Beeep!". You can hammer him pretty easily when he's trying to get back on stage.
Lucario: This one's going to be important to me, since I might be playing the best Lucario in the midwest again. Rainbow Cruise you say? Sounds great! Makes it hard for him to camp, hard to recover, and jablock. Cool.
Dedede: uhhh...Dedede is crap. I'll just make sure not to EPIC FAIL a Kirbycide on Yoshi's story this time, and end up losing because he pops out and I die at the last second. That was a stupid move. He's a pizza cake though, I don't really care what stage I choose against him. Luigi's Mansion maybe, but Final Destination just sounds like a good place to pwn his face. >:E
PIKACHU: HALP! Anther is going to be at this tournament. The first time I faced him (in a friendly) I had no idea how good he was, but he won the last tourney. I definitely need advice on this one. His Nair is deadly, I learned that last time. I'll make sure not to pick a stage that he can easily ko with it, or stagespike with it. Green Greens? Jungle Japes? Advice would be great.
This is just my personal opinion on some stages:
I like Pictochat and Yoshi's Story for some reason. Probably just the atmosphere. Same with FD.
I HATE Frigate Orpheon. Not only is that place just lame, but I've gimped myself by using Final Cutter, and then the stage flips over immediately after, and I free fall (blinking) to my death. SO LAME. I realize that characters with worse recoveries can have a lot of trouble here, but I just hate fighting here.
Pokemon Stadium 2 sucks for Kirby, imo. None of the stage changes seem to give any advantage at all. The wind thing kinda helps Kirby I guess, but not really. It's not like he needs help staying in the air to perform aerials anyway. Also, the electric change. Those treadmills. Try using final cutter near the end, and you free fall, though you catch the ledge. Try using final cutter, and then get pushed off by your opponent. Instant death. Free fall, blinking to your death. I just don't like this stage. PS1 is pretty good though.
I like Corneria, maybe just because I've been playing Sector Z since N64.
For the tourney I'm going to next week:
Nine freaking neutrals. o.O
Anyway: some of the more popular/difficult matchups for Kirby:
Snake: His down B mine gives me a lot of trouble on stages with platforms. Smashville is one that comes to mind. It's easy to forget about the mine, and get pwned when the platform is above you. Final Destination is one of my choices, sure he can camp, but his grenades are easy to catch, and you can get his power and camp back. Rainbow Cruise is good, as everyone else has already said, though I rarely think of picking it (I usually play wifi friendlies) I'll have to give it a try. Castle Siege looks like an interesting choice too, or maybe Green Greens.
Meta Knight: I haven't seen anyone else say this, but I think Pirate Ship could be a good counterpick. I dunno if it's banned where you are...but one reason it's good is because he can't stage-spike you due to the water. Some other reasons I can think of...the catapult thing can make things interesting, you could get lucky and he'll get hit by bombs...the shape of the stage allows your rock to slide around sometimes, though he can still chase and punish missed rocks if he's smart. I dunno who would have the advantage while you're falling in slow motion after the ship gets tossed up, but probably him, because he's Meta Knight -_-
What else? When the ship gets grounded, you can possible jablock him against the front of the ship. And when high tide comes in, you might get lucky and he'll get spiked by the ship. Also, when he's in the water, you can down B pretty easily.
Also, Norfair may or may not be a good idea :D
Lame and Watch: I don't really know here. Like Gonzo said, Halberd could be good. Green Greens is a good one too, in my opinion. I also kinda like Pictochat.
Donkey Kong: Rainbow Cruise...Lylat Cruise...FD, Smashville, Battlefield, Jungle Japes...anywhere you can force him to fall off due to his bad vertical recovery. Same with Bowser.
Diddy Kong: All I can really think of is Lylat Cruise...maybe Green Greens or Pictochat again.
Rob: Luigi's mansion definitely. He can't fly under the stage, you can uptilt lock him, the pillars block his gyro projectile, you can camp back with "Beeep!". You can hammer him pretty easily when he's trying to get back on stage.
Lucario: This one's going to be important to me, since I might be playing the best Lucario in the midwest again. Rainbow Cruise you say? Sounds great! Makes it hard for him to camp, hard to recover, and jablock. Cool.
Dedede: uhhh...Dedede is crap. I'll just make sure not to EPIC FAIL a Kirbycide on Yoshi's story this time, and end up losing because he pops out and I die at the last second. That was a stupid move. He's a pizza cake though, I don't really care what stage I choose against him. Luigi's Mansion maybe, but Final Destination just sounds like a good place to pwn his face. >:E
PIKACHU: HALP! Anther is going to be at this tournament. The first time I faced him (in a friendly) I had no idea how good he was, but he won the last tourney. I definitely need advice on this one. His Nair is deadly, I learned that last time. I'll make sure not to pick a stage that he can easily ko with it, or stagespike with it. Green Greens? Jungle Japes? Advice would be great.
This is just my personal opinion on some stages:
I like Pictochat and Yoshi's Story for some reason. Probably just the atmosphere. Same with FD.
I HATE Frigate Orpheon. Not only is that place just lame, but I've gimped myself by using Final Cutter, and then the stage flips over immediately after, and I free fall (blinking) to my death. SO LAME. I realize that characters with worse recoveries can have a lot of trouble here, but I just hate fighting here.
Pokemon Stadium 2 sucks for Kirby, imo. None of the stage changes seem to give any advantage at all. The wind thing kinda helps Kirby I guess, but not really. It's not like he needs help staying in the air to perform aerials anyway. Also, the electric change. Those treadmills. Try using final cutter near the end, and you free fall, though you catch the ledge. Try using final cutter, and then get pushed off by your opponent. Instant death. Free fall, blinking to your death. I just don't like this stage. PS1 is pretty good though.
I like Corneria, maybe just because I've been playing Sector Z since N64.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
corneria and many other stages are banned due ti infinite grabbing with DDD
y is Hanenbow banned??? lol thats a more or less normal stage more normal than some of ur neutral stages
Pika really doesnt have a bad stage, u'd have to find a character or stage that gives u an advatange and not him. Unfortunately Pika is pretty much good on all stages including counterpicks, perhaps u should look at how anther plays and c what stage would hurt his playstyle the most
y is Hanenbow banned??? lol thats a more or less normal stage more normal than some of ur neutral stages
Pika really doesnt have a bad stage, u'd have to find a character or stage that gives u an advatange and not him. Unfortunately Pika is pretty much good on all stages including counterpicks, perhaps u should look at how anther plays and c what stage would hurt his playstyle the most
I don't think anything can hurt his playstyle...he spams thunderjolt and quick attack, and has crazy good aerials and ground moves...
I was just playing a really good Falco on wifi. Of course, it's wifi, so things might be different offline, but he was pretty much owning me. He was doing things I hadn't seen a Falco do before to Kirby. Like he'd grab, throw, dair, reverse grab, and do it again. And apparently Falco has one of those buggy attacks, like Snake's Mortar Slide. He kept dash attacking, INSTANTLY followed by an upsmash. The guy was good. He also DI'd out of the Gonzo combo easily after the second throw.
Anyway, I tried picking Luigi's Mansion, but he No Contested -_-
I was just playing a really good Falco on wifi. Of course, it's wifi, so things might be different offline, but he was pretty much owning me. He was doing things I hadn't seen a Falco do before to Kirby. Like he'd grab, throw, dair, reverse grab, and do it again. And apparently Falco has one of those buggy attacks, like Snake's Mortar Slide. He kept dash attacking, INSTANTLY followed by an upsmash. The guy was good. He also DI'd out of the Gonzo combo easily after the second throw.
Anyway, I tried picking Luigi's Mansion, but he No Contested -_-
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
its the lag, it makes wifi so useless, i guarantee he couldnt escape the combo as long as u started it with 0 in an in person game
DLX? o_O
But yeah, that move was crazy combo damage. Freaking Falco is hard on wifi. Anyone with projectiles is extremely annoying online -_-
Oh, and NAir seemed absolutely useless against Falco. It was outprioritized by...everything. His Falco made me cry...Red6 was his name..
But yeah, that move was crazy combo damage. Freaking Falco is hard on wifi. Anyone with projectiles is extremely annoying online -_-
Oh, and NAir seemed absolutely useless against Falco. It was outprioritized by...everything. His Falco made me cry...Red6 was his name..
I just want to point out that I fought Master Raven in the Allisbrawl ladder, and I actually got pretty close to beating him. He plays Meta Knight, and he's really freaking good. First game was on Final Destination, and I didn't do so well.
Second game I chose Halberd, and I swear I would have won if I didn't lose my second stock to the claw. Makes me so mad. Anyway yeah, I got an upsmash ko at a fairly low % I managed to get him to 80 something on his last stock before I used Final Cutter like an idiot (don't use it against Meta Knight, he runs so fast he'll catch you with broken downsmash before your landing lag is through). I'm pretty proud though, I'm almost prepared to take on Meta Knights at the tournament a week from today.
Second game I chose Halberd, and I swear I would have won if I didn't lose my second stock to the claw. Makes me so mad. Anyway yeah, I got an upsmash ko at a fairly low %
I managed to get him to 80 something on his last stock before I used Final Cutter like an idiot (don't use it against Meta Knight, he runs so fast he'll catch you with broken downsmash before your landing lag is through). I'm pretty proud though, I'm almost prepared to take on Meta Knights at the tournament a week from today.
Y.b.M.
Smash Master
I think Pictochat is a Great Stage For Kirby...His Down B is a Killer on the Ledge...Try it out
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
hes not updating, should i just copy his chart and make a new topic that will be updated regulary?
PinkMarshMallow
Smash Apprentice
I don't really have a counter stage, but that's not stopping from planning Muahahaha!!!!
psykoplympton
Smash Ace
cornaria amkes kirby kill easier but also makes him be killed easier(likley cause hes so light) i wouldnt counter pick that against a falco or fox or even rob for that matter.
I dunno, you can wall of pain those guys to death pretty easily. I once fthrow-uair-fthrow-uair-fsmashed a wolf at the very left end of corneria at 0%, he died o_o
DAGanmanert
Smash Apprentice
Falcos DAC(Dash Attack Cancel)...its ftw :D
And ya im not gonna add to this topic cuz like everything has been said bout what stages an stuff