Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Bones0]

Can anyone give me advice on wavesmashing? I can wavedash fine but I can barely ever seem to attack while wavedashing.

Is there a trick to the timing I'm not getting? Do I need to wait until after the character is done crouching from landing/wavedashing into the ground before the game will register an input? Do I have to be a certain distance into the wavedash to wavesmash? What's the deal?

And are there only certain attacks you can use while wavedashing, or is anything fair game? Can I use more than just smash attacks?

I'm mostly playing as Yoshi if that makes any difference.

I'm on a CRT so it's not lag or anything. Maybe my timing is just bad but I can't really tell. Is there any frame data available for this that I can look at?

When you airdodge into the ground, you incur 10 frames of landing lag. You cannot attack until after all 10 frames are finished. If you feel like you're not able to attack as quickly as players in videos, you may be airdodging too slowly after jumping. If you input your airdodge perfectly (last frame of jumpsquat) and get the most shallow downward angle possible, you will get the most distance. Make sure you are doing "clean" wavedashes like this, and it will make it easier to get an attack out while you are still sliding. If you airdodge late after your character has been airborne for a frame or two, or if you hold the stick at a more vertical angle, you will not have as much momentum and you will stop sliding before the 10 frames are even up.

Best ways to practice perfect timing wavedashes is to roll backwards towards the ledge on a non-YS stage, and try to wavedash onto it. If you aren't perfect, you'll airdodge to your death.

The best way to practice perfect wavedash length is to find a platform that your character can just barely wavedash across, and try to wavedash the full distance. Just from a quick test, Yoshi doesn't seem to have any that are the perfect distance for him, but if you roll to the edge of a Battlefield platform and WD as far as possible, you should be able to get the toes of your boots to overlap with the yellow stripe on the platform. Keep in mind that perfect wavedash length not only depends on how well you angle your stick, but also requires you to get a frame perfect airdodge.

If you have 20xx, there are specific overlays in the Debug Menu for wavedashing practice. Go to Training Codes > Color Overlays > Wavedash Overlays. I'm not exactly sure how the X/Y values work for the perfect angle overlay, but if you tweak them you can get less restriction on what good angles will show up. Getting a truly perfect angle is actually very difficult, so don't get frustrated if you're using the default overlay.

 

[Trinsic]

When you airdodge into the ground, you incur 10 frames of landing lag. You cannot attack until after all 10 frames are finished. If you feel like you're not able to attack as quickly as players in videos, you may be airdodging too slowly after jumping. If you input your airdodge perfectly (last frame of jumpsquat) and get the most shallow downward angle possible, you will get the most distance. Make sure you are doing "clean" wavedashes like this, and it will make it easier to get an attack out while you are still sliding. If you airdodge late after your character has been airborne for a frame or two, or if you hold the stick at a more vertical angle, you will not have as much momentum and you will stop sliding before the 10 frames are even up.

Best ways to practice perfect timing wavedashes is to roll backwards towards the ledge on a non-YS stage, and try to wavedash onto it. If you aren't perfect, you'll airdodge to your death.

The best way to practice perfect wavedash length is to find a platform that your character can just barely wavedash across, and try to wavedash the full distance. Just from a quick test, Yoshi doesn't seem to have any that are the perfect distance for him, but if you roll to the edge of a Battlefield platform and WD as far as possible, you should be able to get the toes of your boots to overlap with the yellow stripe on the platform. Keep in mind that perfect wavedash length not only depends on how well you angle your stick, but also requires you to get a frame perfect airdodge.

If you have 20xx, there are specific overlays in the Debug Menu for wavedashing practice. Go to Training Codes > Color Overlays > Wavedash Overlays. I'm not exactly sure how the X/Y values work for the perfect angle overlay, but if you tweak them you can get less restriction on what good angles will show up. Getting a truly perfect angle is actually very difficult, so don't get frustrated if you're using the default overlay.

Thanks a lot for all the advice! This is all really useful stuff.

Also, that quote in your signature is really true. I just looked up the 10 frames of landing lag from wavedashing to see why it's different from the character specific landing lag of regular jumps that I'm used to. Which I guess I should refer to as "heavy landings" from now on. I had no idea there were different classifications of landing lag other than landing while performing an aerial, and I've been playing these games since the first day the 64 one came out. Crazy.

 

[Lucky13the2nd]

Best PC for all-around melee? Netplay and local

 

[Dolla Pills]

Best PC for all-around melee? Netplay and local

Are you building a desktop or looking to buy a desktop/laptop

 

[Lucky13the2nd]

Are you building a desktop or looking to buy a desktop/laptop

looking to buy

 

[Dolla Pills]

looking to buy

If you want a desktop, I would look for something with at least an i5 and a dedicated graphics. I'm not sure what laptop equivalents are, but in the past I got away with an i5-3380M and integrated graphics. You don't really need much, just a processor with decent single core performance (most decent Intel chips) and a graphics card is a bonus if you want to run at higher resolutions or to be extra sure everything always runs smoothly.

Here's a link to their recommended specs:
https://dolphin-emu.org/docs/faq/#which-cpu-should-i-use

 

[tsmfoxmaster]

One question does the 20xx 4.06 have shield toggles?

 

[Sempai]

You should join a local group on Facebook. That's where everyone posts about practice sessions and tournaments.

Can confirm that Facebook is the absolute BEST way to find smashers in your area.
You'd be surprised whos out there, Start from a region, then go to state, then try to narrow down from there.

 

[ande]

i`ve once seen a video, where a fox up throws a shiek on dreamland under the left side of the right platform, the fox then up smashes as the shiek is still in the air, i think shiek was between the top and the right platform, nd the upsmash strangely connects.
does anybody know, wth happend there? or do you know which video it is?
i think it was a compilation or top 10 video

 

[Bones0]

i`ve once seen a video, where a fox up throws a shiek on dreamland under the left side of the right platform, the fox then up smashes as the shiek is still in the air, i think shiek was between the top and the right platform, nd the upsmash strangely connects.
does anybody know, wth happend there? or do you know which video it is?
i think it was a compilation or top 10 video

It's a 20xx TE glitch. I think it was a grsmash video titled "weirdest glitches/moments" or something along those lines.

 

[-ACE-]

It's a 20xx TE glitch. I think it was a grsmash video titled "weirdest glitches/moments" or something along those lines.

I have 20XXTE. About a month ago I was messing around with the cpu fox. He was recovering but wasn't close enough to make it back to stage. I tried to fully space a fair on his Firefox and barely missed, and went for a falling uair (suicidal) for the hell of it. As soon as the uair connected I was instantly teleported to stage by ledge, standing. Lol

 

[ande]

It's a 20xx TE glitch. I think it was a grsmash video titled "weirdest glitches/moments" or something along those lines.

oh thanks for the answer!

 

[LeadRod]

I was looking for guides on how to preform the ICs homerun contest but couldn't find a proper guide anywhere. Any info on that would be greatly appreciated!

 

[nebula_benula]

Regarding Input Display in 20XX 4.06:

I recently found out about this new feature, and it seems the only way to configure this is by vertical placement on the screen. I have to turn it on every match, I can't change the opacity, and I can't move it side to side.
I simply want to know the area of code that contains the data for the input display, and it would be extra helpful if anyone knows how to configure any properties of it.
Hopefully someone can also get Achilles in here and maybe he can tell me? Any help appreciated.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Regarding Input Display in 20XX 4.06:

I recently found out about this new feature, and it seems the only way to configure this is by vertical placement on the screen. I have to turn it on every match, I can't change the opacity, and I can't move it side to side.
I simply want to know the area of code that contains the data for the input display, and it would be extra helpful if anyone knows how to configure any properties of it.
Hopefully someone can also get Achilles in here and maybe he can tell me? Any help appreciated.

You should try to ask on the Melee Workshop forum, I'd guess Achilles/people who can help frequent there more often

 

[Bones0]

I think the input display code was taken directly from the 20xx TE (Tournament Edition) mod, so you might be able to find it more easily searching their info, though I don't know where exactly that'd be.

 

[mariogamer]

Hy,

I got a lot of question (sorry for my weird english).

First, I am actually playing smash 4 somewhat competitively and going to a local for practise. Then I "discovered" melee recently.... And saw it was a very different game... So do you think it's better to drop one to get better at the other, guys?

Second, I'm actually in lack of main... In fact, I had some idea but still not sure on who to choose... So do you have idea about simple way to find one?

Third, is it too late? I know this question is asked a lot, but getting on competitive scene? Is it possible?

Then, techskill, neutral and other. What would you suggest to me to get better at those?

Thank for any advice!

 

[nebula_benula]

Hy,

I got a lot of question (sorry for my weird english).

First, I am actually playing smash 4 somewhat competitively and going to a local for practise. Then I "discovered" melee recently.... And saw it was a very different game... So do you think it's better to drop one to get better at the other, guys?

Second, I'm actually in lack of main... In fact, I had some idea but still not sure on who to choose... So do you have idea about simple way to find one?

Third, is it too late? I know this question is asked a lot, but getting on competitive scene? Is it possible?

Then, techskill, neutral and other. What would you suggest to me to get better at those?

Thank for any advice!

1. Absolutely

2. Try out the most popular characters and see who you like the best - marth, sheik, falco, fox, etc.

3. Watch 'ssbm tutorials' on youtube, great channel for that

 

[ande]

Hy,

I got a lot of question (sorry for my weird english).

First, I am actually playing smash 4 somewhat competitively and going to a local for practise. Then I "discovered" melee recently.... And saw it was a very different game... So do you think it's better to drop one to get better at the other, guys?

Second, I'm actually in lack of main... In fact, I had some idea but still not sure on who to choose... So do you have idea about simple way to find one?

Third, is it too late? I know this question is asked a lot, but getting on competitive scene? Is it possible?

Then, techskill, neutral and other. What would you suggest to me to get better at those?

Thank for any advice!

the ssbm tutorials channel also has a playlist about which character could suit someone the most
they are definitely worth watching if you aren´t sure who to main

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GZ9rE9F7ZA&list=PLoU3TQBakHOq6EHo-Hs35bOlTRQnp5q6p

 

[Omuk]

How do I practice neutral game if I have nobody to practice with and no tournaments to go to?
And yes, I damn well mean it when I say that I have no people or nearby tournaments to play Melee with. You'd be shocked.

Before you reply with "netplay", consider this:
1) My internet can only ever handle 8 buffer at the very least, which is a lot for me because Fox main.
2) Online competitive games make me uncontrollably angry. Offline, however, I always have fun.

EDIT:
Just realized how ironic it is that you see "netplayer" right under this post. Yes. Despite those two things I mentioned, I do still play netplay regularly because I can't just not play Melee. That doesn't work.

 

[Salt Fish]

Does anyone have any information on how flat zone tool spawns work? I've been searching memory for it but am having a hard time. The tools always spawn for exactly 20 seconds, but apparently at random intervals which has complicated my search. I suspect it might be tied into a global stage time or affected by the game state / character damage stocks? Any help would be awesome.

 

[Bones0]

How do I practice neutral game if I have nobody to practice with and no tournaments to go to?
And yes, I damn well mean it when I say that I have no people or nearby tournaments to play Melee with. You'd be shocked.

Before you reply with "netplay", consider this:
1) My internet can only ever handle 8 buffer at the very least, which is a lot for me because Fox main.
2) Online competitive games make me uncontrollably angry. Offline, however, I always have fun.

EDIT:
Just realized how ironic it is that you see "netplayer" right under this post. Yes. Despite those two things I mentioned, I do still play netplay regularly because I can't just not play Melee. That doesn't work.

You can't effectively learn neutral game without human opponents. Based on your location, there should be at least a handful of smashers near you. Lehigh Valley is only 20 mins away, and there is a monthly event in Bethlehem which is only 30 mins away from you.

Lehigh Valley Group
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1722936981251562/

Bethlehem Tournament
https://www.facebook.com/events/137334603489500

 

[cagliostro9]

Do any of y'all have a link to how to calculate knockback for moves that have weight-based knockback (e.g. fox shine, first hit sheik fsmash, etc)? I can only find the normal KB formula after searching for a while.

 

[tauKhan]

Just use ikneedata.com/calculator ?

 

[cagliostro9]

That's what I wound up doing, but I was curious what the actual formula was.

 

[Bones0]

Do any of y'all have a link to how to calculate knockback for moves that have weight-based knockback (e.g. fox shine, first hit sheik fsmash, etc)? I can only find the normal KB formula after searching for a while.

Is it not the same formula? I thought moves that weren't weight-based simply used a base value of 100/NTSC Mario for the weight in the formula. I can't confirm if it's true, but I think I read it somewhere so maybe searching around will yield some results.

Here's the most accurate formula I've seen, which includes a variable for the victim's weight:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/5dhi3v/i_remade_the_melee_knockback_formula_based_on/

 

[cagliostro9]

No you input the weight in all of the formulas. Otherwise moves would knock everyone down at the same percents. Thanks for the link, but you actually can't calculate it from that as far as I can tell.

EDIT: Weight-based means that the move does a set knockback that is based exclusively on the victim's weight and do not take into account the percent (like sheik first hit fsmash or fox shine)

 

[Bones0]

No you input the weight in all of the formulas. Otherwise moves would knock everyone down at the same percents. Thanks for the link, but you actually can't calculate it from that as far as I can tell.

EDIT: Weight-based means that the move does a set knockback that is based exclusively on the victim's weight and do not take into account the percent (like sheik first hit fsmash or fox shine)

Oh, I've never heard that referred to as weight-based. Seems misleading because regular KB is also weight-based. Are there set KB moves that aren't weight-based?

Also, Falco's fthrow knocks down everyone at 37%, so maybe throws are what I was thinking of with the KB formula using a set weight for everyone.

 

[cagliostro9]

Yeah I don't know much about throws. As far as I know there are no moves that have weight-independent set knockback. The only hitboxes that do that are gimmick answers (fox laser, pummels, etc). These only do that bc there's no knockback at all.

That definition for weight-based is just my usage to describe when a hitbox has some WBK (weight-based knockback). I got it from Toomai's spreadsheet idk if it's the technical term. I've also seen WDSK (I think weight-dependent set knocback, but I'm not sure).

 

[Sempai]

How do I practice neutral game if I have nobody to practice with and no tournaments to go to?
And yes, I damn well mean it when I say that I have no people or nearby tournaments to play Melee with. You'd be shocked.

Before you reply with "netplay", consider this:
1) My internet can only ever handle 8 buffer at the very least, which is a lot for me because Fox main.
2) Online competitive games make me uncontrollably angry. Offline, however, I always have fun.

EDIT:
Just realized how ironic it is that you see "netplayer" right under this post. Yes. Despite those two things I mentioned, I do still play netplay regularly because I can't just not play Melee. That doesn't work.

Well just like sparring, there isn't a replacement for having a partner 1v1 you.
But being able to be slippery as possible through a crazy DD game and other great movement (WD OOS, Wavelands, Sheild drops,etc.) is a great way to at least prepare your neutral.
If you're looking for people to play, I have an active Smash Discord with several rooms for Melee & PM netplayers.

https://discord.gg/aQCwEDP

Melee net play tournaments incoming, worth a look if you want to get some training in.

 

[CursedKaiju]

so whenever i download an iso it turns into a dif, can i play with others over netplay or no?

 

[Malistir]

Can you tech footstools in Brawl, PM, And smash 4?

 

[Dolla Pills]

Can you tech footstools in Brawl, PM, And smash 4?

If I were you I'd ask in one of those forums lol

 

[Grizzmeister]

Question: is playing Melee on a Wii off an SD card with Nintendont the same as playing from a disc?

 

[Dolla Pills]

Question: is playing Melee on a Wii off an SD card with Nintendont the same as playing from a disc?

As long as you enable native control

 

[Grizzmeister]

As long as you enable native control

Thanks for the tip! BTW, is there a preferred version of Nintendont to use in a tournament setting?

 

[Dolla Pills]

Thanks for the tip! BTW, is there a preferred version of Nintendont to use in a tournament setting?

Not that I'm aware of, though you may as well go with recent builds

 

[Grizzmeister]

Not that I'm aware of, though you may as well go with recent builds

DL'ed the latest version and everything seems good.

 

[Sdhy]

I am invested in getting better at this game, but my surroundings are making it quite difficult. I am unable to go to tourneys, only have two people who I know that play PM (not even melee) pseudo-competitively, consequently my highest level opponents are the 20XX AI, can only play on weekends, share a TV with siblings, and main Fox. How can I best improve in these circumstances? Thanks in advance. Probably not an easy question.

You can also look up, study and practice different combos, approaches, and which situations when they work in and when they're risky / unsafe.
Yeah, practice the inputs and timing in 20xx or whatever.
That way, when you do get to play against humans, you already know what to do, what to try out. One less step than walking in and not knowing what to do.
Disclaimer: I just started But been watching for 1 or 2 years.

 

[TheSmashCube]

Hi, this is my first time on the forum, and I'm trying to see if I have the computer specs for netplay. Would a GeForce GT 730 (2gb) be sufficient for the graphics card? Processor and RAM aren't issues for me (i7 6700 and 8gb), I just haven't been able to figure out if the graphics card will work.