Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

[Gin Tonic]

Is there a thread or link that lists the all the blast line data (width and height) of the tournament legal stages? I've already googled it but found nothing and I'd be really interested to see the exact blast line values. Thx in advance.

 

[RyseEX]

There's an app called melee handbook

 

[Comet7]

Somebody told me knockback is dofferent when hitting a grabbed opponent. Is this true? And is SDI possible when this happens?

 

[Bones0]

Somebody told me knockback is dofferent when hitting a grabbed opponent. Is this true? And is SDI possible when this happens?

Yes, it's reduced (idk by how much unfortunately). If you want to see for yourself, have Bowser, Jiggs, and any third character start a match on FD. Have the third character grab Bowser, and then use Jiggs to rest him across the stage. Reset the sitution and rest him from the same spot without anyone grabbing him.

You can SDI only if the attack is strong enough to break the grab (you can't SDI while you are actually grabbed).

 

[TheFlipside]

Edit: Can someone delete this post, I asked my question in the wrong thread.

 

[Sempai]

So as a former smash 4 player who is looking to switch to melee, any advice you could give to me? I will probably use marth, as I used him in SSB4, and I hear he is top-tier in melee, but I am still unsure.

Grind tech skill so you can wavedash, and lcancel on command almost flawlessly. The biggest limiter is lack of tech skill for new melee players.

After you have MASTERED that then u can get onto fancier things like Wavelanding, Shield dropping, etc.

 

[-ACE-]

His dair and fair on sheild can be harder to punish, and his side b has a lot of pushback and shield stun (a lot of characters can't punish it on shield unless they have fast reflexes and wavedash optimally OOS)

Shield DI = grab for most characters.

 

[Dolla Pills]

So I was playing earlier today and I went to shine turnaround wavedash to ledge, and I messed up but I believe what I did was shine > turnaround > press y > cancel my jumpsquat by falling off the ledge > fastfall to grab ledge. Is this possible, and if so is it fast (it seemed fast)?

 

[Sycorax]

So I was playing earlier today and I went to shine turnaround wavedash to ledge, and I messed up but I believe what I did was shine > turnaround > press y > cancel my jumpsquat by falling off the ledge > fastfall to grab ledge. Is this possible, and if so is it fast (it seemed fast)?

Was it something like this (4.FX.19 in my Melee Library)?

 

[Dolla Pills]

Was it something like this (4.FX.19 in my Melee Library)?

Yup, that's what I thought. I wonder if it's faster to do this than other methods of grabbing the ledge

 

[Bones0]

Yup, that's what I thought. I wonder if it's faster to do this than other methods of grabbing the ledge

There was a video on YouTube that gave a breakdown of all the different options to grab the ledge and how fast they are, but I can't find it after tons of searching. From what I remember (and I could very well be wrong), but I believe shine hog is only slightly faster than shine turnaround WD onto the ledge, especially if you're not FFing the shine hog (which seems pretty hard). I think the fastest method (excluding side-B ledge cancels and pivot hogs) may have actually been a simple WD FF PC drop (where you just turn around and let the extra momentum carry you off). WD pivot WD FF is probably a close second.

 

[kbjghbghijkgik]

Is there a complete table with absolute all frame data, stats etc. of all characters somewhere?
Or only the seperate ones for each?

 

[Dolla Pills]

There was a video on YouTube that gave a breakdown of all the different options to grab the ledge and how fast they are, but I can't find it after tons of searching. From what I remember (and I could very well be wrong), but I believe shine hog is only slightly faster than shine turnaround WD onto the ledge, especially if you're not FFing the shine hog (which seems pretty hard). I think the fastest method (excluding side-B ledge cancels and pivot hogs) may have actually been a simple WD FF PC drop (where you just turn around and let the extra momentum carry you off). WD pivot WD FF is probably a close second.

Yeah I forgot about that video. Just checked it and it's tied for fastest along with WD-PC drop, although they're only 1 frame faster than many other options. I still might do it cause it looks cool

 

[Sycorax]

I can't find it after tons of searching

That's why I made the Melee Library. The video you're looking for is in the Fox section at 4.FX.8. Here you go:
https://youtu.be/62IDrqxCAPc

 

[Sycorax]

Sorry for the double post

Is there a complete table with absolute all frame data, stats etc. of all characters somewhere?
Or only the seperate ones for each?

There is the MasterHand Tool made by Dantarion and WindOwl which reads Melee character files and tells you most info about them. The information from that program is consolidated in a spreadsheet linked in Kadano's thread.

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah I forgot about that video. Just checked it and it's tied for fastest along with WD-PC drop, although they're only 1 frame faster than many other options. I still might do it cause it looks cool

I wouldn't trust the video to be perfectly accurate. For example, in the shine -> turn -> wd clip the fox does run -> RunBrake -> crouch -> shine, whereas in the shine turn edge canceled jump (sometimes called shinehog btw) clip the fox does a proper running shine, which alone could explain the difference. Also sadly the vid lacks wd -> st -> wd.

 

[Dolla Pills]

I wouldn't trust the video to be perfectly accurate. For example, in the shine -> turn -> wd clip the fox does run -> RunBrake -> crouch -> shine, whereas in the shine turn edge canceled jump (sometimes called shinehog btw) clip the fox does a proper running shine, which alone could explain the difference. Also sadly the vid lacks wd -> st -> wd.

I've been generally under the assumption that WD>ST>WD is very fast and very reliable for most if not all characters, it's just when you play in CT and do something fancy everyone always freaks out which I find to be priceless so it's worth it to me regardless.

 

[kbjghbghijkgik]

Sorry for the double post

There is the MasterHand Tool made by Dantarion and WindOwl which reads Melee character files and tells you most info about them. The information from that program is consolidated in a spreadsheet linked in Kadano's thread.

Well, I can't find a link to any spreadsheet, or even a relevant subsection, in his post though. Can you guide me to it?

 

[Sycorax]

Well, I can't find a link to any spreadsheet, or even a relevant subsection, in his post though. Can you guide me to it?

It's the first link under "Hitbubble, frame data analysis". It used to have the word "spreadsheet" in it, but I guess he changed it You want to click "download link."

 

[PMMikey]

I've never really played melee competitively , though I know all the tech terms and the inputs I've just never put the time to get good lol. Long story short I'm really bad but knowledgeable about the game. I pretty sure I'm going to main Sheik, also what tech should I practice first also should I practice with other characters for tech, example being like for wavedashing use luigi and for L canceling with Link, or should I just do it all with Sheik?

 

[Dolla Pills]

Just do it all with Sheik. Sheik has a shorter jumpsquat than Luigi so it will be harder with her, and it's doesn't matter too much for L cancel timings but it's still better to just use Sheik.

 

[Plunder]

Yea Sheik is sort of weird, she can be played in a very lame way using things you can learn in a day like her AC fair, Boost grab, Needle cancels, D-throw tech chases, super easy Bair edge guarding. But there is still a lot of her movement, recovery, and combos to practice that can take 10+ years to master. If you watch M2K or KirbyKaze it becomes clear that Sheik is a pretty solid standalone character.

The only thing you won't be able to really practice and feel comfortable with is fast SHFFL pressure and Dash Dancing since it's not very good or useful on Sheik (her WD should be used but it's also not as crucial). Marth, Falcon, or Fox would be good characters to fill her gaps if you occasionally want to take a break and learn a wider breadth of useful tech that could help in the future (would also help learning those MUs from the inside).

 

[tauKhan]

Just do it all with Sheik. Sheik has a shorter jumpsquat than Luigi so it will be harder with her

Eh, faster timing doesn't mean that executing the wd is harder. Though the point still stands that wd requires different inputs depending on jumpsquat, so it's best to practice it first with your main anyway (as anything else tech related of course).

 

[Dolla Pills]

Eh, faster timing doesn't mean that executing the wd is harder. Though the point still stands that wd requires different inputs depending on jumpsquat, so it's best to practice it first with your main anyway (as anything else tech related of course).

In my experience people have problems with the shorter jump squats when first picking up the game. Not exactly sure why

 

[tauKhan]

In my experience people have problems with the shorter jump squats when first picking up the game. Not exactly sure why

Interesting, for me and some other players I know 3 frame jumpsquat wds were the easiest to learn, it's probably very individual.

 

[Kadano]

It's the first link under "Hitbubble, frame data analysis". It used to have the word "spreadsheet" in it, but I guess he changed it You want to click "download link."

It actually never had "spreadsheet" in it (I looked into all past revisions of the post), but I added it in now. =)

 

[Klemes]

Hello. I have a question. WHAT IN THE WORLD happened to avatars ??? Why are we all evil japanese hentai avatars ? And why do I have GREEN HAIR ??? Why would anyone have green hair, nobody was born like this, and nobody in his own mind would ever want to tint his hair green. And you know why that is ? Because green hair is UGLY AS HELL, that's why !

Now if this is some sort of joke refering to today's particular date, whoever thought this would be funny was damn wrong ! Don't you know you can hurt people's feelings ? By stripping them of what makes them a virtual social entity, slapping on them a pictural representation from another communist culture that aims for world domination by seducing our children with Chimpokomons, and by GIVING THEM GREEN HAIR ?!?!

*deep breathing to avoid stroke*

Not cool man, NOT COOL. What if you can't fix this and turn us back to normal ? What if you doomed us to wear this unsetling look forever, some of us teenage girls with umbrellas, some of us stupid guys with stupid green hair ?
If it was up to me, you'd be so fired you couldn't find another job even if YOU paid your boss, you sneaky snake.

 

[Spak]

HAPPY APRIL FOOLS!!!!

Last year Shaq Boards, this year Emblem Boards. No telling what next year will bring (maybe Nigerian Cyber Army Boards?)

 

[Plunder]

*wink*

 

[FightingPorygonTeam]

Is there something like a Melee skype group? (I recently found my Melee disc back, but I have a lot of technical problems (like stuttering) while playing it on an emulator).

 

[Hunybear]

I'm having problems installing the wii u adapter driver. Every time i try it says driver installation failed. Im on windows 8.1
Edit" I figured it out nvr mind. I just had to boot my computer in a special way and uninstall out of date drivers.

 

[Bones0]

I've been messing around with clanks, and I noticed something strange. Normally when Fox or Falco do a grounded side-B, the hitbox has a few separate parts. When I use Falco's utilt to clank with the first hitbox (frame 22 for Fox, 18 for Falco), the hitbox gets dragged differently such that it's one continuous line. Is this a graphical quirk of debug, or is the clank somehow affecting hitbox dragging in a meaningful way by delaying the "projectile"-type side-B hitbox?

 

[RyseEX]

Is there any way to have a 20xx cpu shino stall perfectly?

 

[Nomzr]

I was curious, does hitstun/hitlag vary from move to move / character to character? And is there a difference between shieldstun and shieldlag with respect to hitlag and hitstun?

More precisely, if I hit a Peach with a Bair as Falco vs doing the same against Falcon, will the time differ from when I am able to react because of the character difference, and will Peach or Falcon be able to recover slower/quicker depending? Or is it all universal?

And regarding shields, is the stun/lag different for shields?

 

[Dolla Pills]

I was curious, does hitstun/hitlag vary from move to move / character to character? And is there a difference between shieldstun and shieldlag with respect to hitlag and hitstun?

More precisely, if I hit a Peach with a Bair as Falco vs doing the same against Falcon, will the time differ from when I am able to react because of the character difference, and will Peach or Falcon be able to recover slower/quicker depending? Or is it all universal?

And regarding shields, is the stun/lag different for shields?

From what I understand:
Hitstun generally depends on the weight of the character you're hitting, the damage of your move, the damage on the opponent, and the base knockback/ knockback growth of the move (Hitstun is a fraction of knockback).

Hitlag only depends on the damage of the move you hit them with and the electricity multiplier.

Crouch cancel also plays a factor somewhere.

I think shield stun is the same as hitlag, not sure if shield lag is even a thing so if it is I don't know.

For more info, check out this thread.

 

[Sycorax]

I was curious, does hitstun/hitlag vary from move to move / character to character? And is there a difference between shieldstun and shieldlag with respect to hitlag and hitstun?

Hitstun is a fraction of knockback which in turn depends on a lot of different factors which you can read about here. One of those is weight, which is different between characters. Most of the factors are different between each move, such as knockback growth, base knockback, etc. Some factors are "environmental" such as crouch armor, and being hit in a charged smash attack. Being hit while in the crouch animation will cause you to incur 2/3 of regular knockback, and so 2/3 of regular hitstun. It also causes you to incur 2/3 of regular hitlag. Being hit by an electric move, e.g. Fox's shine or Captain Falcon's fair, will cause the victim to take 1.5 times the hitlag, but the attacker is unaffected.

Shield hitlag is the same number of frames as hitlag. Shield stun is very different from hitstun. Shield hitstun is much much shorter than hitstun and depends only on the damage that the move does, not on any of those other factors.

More precisely, if I hit a Peach with a Bair as Falco vs doing the same against Falcon, will the time differ from when I am able to react because of the character difference, and will Peach or Falcon be able to recover slower/quicker depending? Or is it all universal?

Captain Falcon would recover faster because he weighs more, but both he and Peach incur the same amount of hitlag.

And regarding shields, is the stun/lag different for shields?

It's the same for all shields, except Yoshi. He doesn't incur shieldstun.

 

[Dolla Pills]

Are there any characters that you can't waveshine with Fox if you JC shine (of the characters that don't get knocked down)? I've been practicing it lately and it's not too bad so I've decided to learn it

 

[I speak Spanish too]

In the 20XX TE thing or whatever is their like a thing thats lets you know if your opponent is still in hitstun like in PM's debug mode?

 

[Dolla Pills]

In the 20XX TE thing or whatever is their like a thing thats lets you know if your opponent is still in hitstun like in PM's debug mode?

In the hack pack, yes. Idk about TE

 

[I speak Spanish too]

Ok, can you link me to the hack pack download? i'm new to melee.
Also, in 20XX hack pack TE is their a way to upload the replays to your computer
Oh, you can your homebrew software.
This all just so confusing O.O