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Q&A Official FAQ and QnA Thread - Ask Your Questions Here!

Stride

Smash Ace
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Feb 22, 2014
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680
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North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
Melee is being added to a local tournament series that I help run, so I want to make sure that we have a solid ruleset. Does this look okay? (Is there a more appropriate thread for me to post this in?)

http://docs.google.com/document/d/1B8G-bChAMLr2xsPNjP13aZIG4mLD704RAlUNh378xEo

(Event link, which has some more general tournament rules for every game: http://www.facebook.com/events/485994904936207/)

It's close to the Apex 2015 ruleset, with some minor edits. The only specific feedback I've gotten so far is that Kongo Jungle can probably be struck from the Doubles stage list because it's an anachronism that nobody actually wants to play but keeps showing up on stage lists because of tradition at this point. Any advice, on that or anything else?
There are only a few changes I would make to the rules (mostly minor clarifications):

• I'd clarify that the "(S)" in the stage list means "starter"; it should be obvious but it can't hurt to include it.

• You should mention that stage striking order is to be determined by rock-paper-scissors (since you didn't specify anything). And then lower down where you say that port priority is to be decided by a coin flip if players can't decide amongst themselves, change that to rock-paper-scissors as well (since it's really part of the same process the deciding process should be the same).

You can say that the method of deciding doesn't matter (and therefore can be a coin flip if the players want); it's just that rock-paper-scissors seems to be the standard/default everywhere, so it makes sense for the rules to specify that if they're going to specify any method at all.

• For the "Team colors must be Red & Blue on the stream": I'm assuming this is to help red-green colourblind viewers? I'd add a rule for forcing team colours in any game on the request of a colourblind player (whatever colours may be necessary, considering there are different types of colourblindness). The rule for the players should take priority over the rule for the stream, since the players being able to see is more important than the viewers.

Because of the different types of colourblindness, I wonder what proportion of colourblind viewers would prefer which set of team colours. Since presumably some will be able to distinguish red and green better than red and blue (and there are various shades and other colours in each costume too, which complicates things), a rule which forces red and blue to be used would be counterproductive to them.

In a draw game, lowest percent wins. Sudden Death will not be used, except in the rare instance that an extra tiebreaker game also ends in tied percentages.
I'd change this to something like: "If a game goes to time, then the player with more stocks wins; if stocks are tied, then the player with the lowest damage wins. If both the stocks and the damages are tied, then a one stock match on the same stage with the same characters will be played to break the tie. Sudden Death will not be played."

You shouldn't play Sudden Death ever; the reasons for not playing it still stand even after a tiebreaker (making the game literally about getting one hit to win is really dumb, and then there's the randomly falling Bob-ombs that appear, and the lack of time limit beyond that).

The exact rules of the tiebreaking game can be changed.

You should also add a rule for what happens in a normal (not tiebreaker) game when both players last stocks are taken at the same time.

The winner of a game is allowed to change character for the next game, but he must pick his character first.
I think this is redundant and slightly confusing since you state the same thing above in a clearer way in the character and stage selection procedure section.

(*There are no stage bans in best 3-out-of-5 sets.)
I'd clarify this: "There are only stage bans in best-of-3 sets; there are no stage bans in best-of-5 sets."
 
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Sixfortyfive

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
235
The Sudden Death rule is worded the way it is in order to be consistent with our Sudden Death rule for Smash 4. We used to run a more standard tiebreaker rule, but we had to change it due to a very specific circumstance.

We once had a match where one player employed a very strong keepaway/camping tactic, and the other player--not knowing how to effectively fight that tactic but still trying to win--decided not to engage him. At all. Literally. One game where the clock ran out without a single percentage of damage being dealt on either side, and then a follow-up tiebreaker game that ended with exactly 4% damage dealt on both sides. So, accounting for our limited time to run the event and the very real possibility that such a match-up could continue indefinitely, we invoked the threat of Sudden Death to force the players to actually engage each other, lest they be at the mercy of the game's coin-flip tiebreaker mechanic. We weren't going to wait around 10 full games for them to decide to act of their own accord.

It's already understood that a "tie" means tied stocks and tied percentages (which I could probably stand to state more explicitly anyway, so I'll go ahead and do that), and the general event rules already specify procedures for tiebreakers. I don't expect that SD rule to ever actually be put into practice in Melee due to how that game is played; it's just worded the way it is for consistency with Smash 4.
 
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Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
The Sudden Death rule is worded the way it is in order to be consistent with our Sudden Death rule for Smash 4. We used to run a more standard tiebreaker rule, but we had to change it due to a very specific circumstance.

We once had a match where one player employed a very strong keepaway/camping tactic, and the other player--not knowing how to effectively fight that tactic but still trying to win--decided not to engage him. At all. Literally. One game where the clock ran out without a single percentage of damage being dealt on either side, and then a follow-up tiebreaker game that ended with exactly 4% damage dealt on both sides. So, accounting for our limited time to run the event and the very real possibility that such a match-up could continue indefinitely, we invoked the threat of Sudden Death to force the players to actually engage each other, lest they be at the mercy of the game's coin-flip tiebreaker mechanic. We weren't going to wait around 10 full games for them to decide to act of their own accord.

It's already understood that a "tie" means tied stocks and tied percentages (which I could probably stand to state more explicitly anyway, so I'll go ahead and do that), and the general event rules already specify procedures for tiebreakers. I don't expect that SD rule to ever actually be put into practice in Melee due to how that game is played; it's just worded the way it is for consistency with Smash 4.
It doesn't have to be consistent with Smash 4 though; why does the Sudden Death rule, specifically, have to be the same when the other rules aren't? Different rules are appropriate for different games.

In Melee, a Sudden Death game is going to be more campy than a regular game. Whoever approaches first puts themselves at a huge risk of being hit and killed instantly. Bob-ombs start to fall after 20 seconds (maybe the amount of time varies; I don't know), meaning that once they do neither player will ever be anywhere besides the ledge or under the side platforms (where they don't spawn), because they'll randomly be instantly killed. There's no time limit to force either player to approach.
 
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Sixfortyfive

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
235
If SD functions in such a way that it's feasible to avoid the bombs entirely, then that's a good point and I'll change it.

I feel that this is mostly an argument of semantics anyway, as the odds of having 2 games in a row end in exact ties is extremely low to begin with.
 

hypersonicJD

Smash Journeyman
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Jun 28, 2015
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I actually have a question.

I have played Melee in Dolphin emulator for some time. And have been thinking: What if I actually got a real gamecube controller and practice? Because I actually have a feeling. That I might be a good Melee player but I just need the gamecube controller to start my Melee competitive training and other stuff. Has anyone else felt the same? And what happened after that fuzzy feeling?
 

MrBananaMan

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 29, 2011
Messages
10
Location
Long Beach, California
3DS FC
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I actually have a question.

I have played Melee in Dolphin emulator for some time. And have been thinking: What if I actually got a real gamecube controller and practice? Because I actually have a feeling. That I might be a good Melee player but I just need the gamecube controller to start my Melee competitive training and other stuff. Has anyone else felt the same? And what happened after that fuzzy feeling?
Wait, how have you been playing before? Just get a win u adapter and a gcn then you're good to go
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
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Sep 25, 2007
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The back country, GA
Bones0 Bones0 (older post)

You could test the vertical momentum theory by doing a "perfect" wd (where the terrain is at an incline, allowing you to hold completely forward --- ys, windmill transformation) versus a ff perfect wL. I have a feeling they are the same.
 
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hypersonicJD

Smash Journeyman
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I don't have
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I have been playing like 2 or 1 year ago. I do know about the technical stuff from Melee (Wave Dashing, L-Cancel, Edgehoging, Dash Dancing, etc etc). But I can't really execute them with a Keyboard. And I have been some combos from people and I do want to perform better. Is a controller going to help greatly?
 

Stride

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
680
Location
North-west England (near Manchester/Liverpool)
I have been playing like 2 or 1 year ago. I do know about the technical stuff from Melee (Wave Dashing, L-Cancel, Edgehoging, Dash Dancing, etc etc). But I can't really execute them with a Keyboard. And I have been some combos from people and I do want to perform better. Is a controller going to help greatly?
Yes. Get one as soon as possible.

You'll be unable to use a keyboard in tournament without a converter (some do exist, but I'm not sure of their quality or availability; worst-case scenario you'll have to custom-build your own). Regardless, playing Melee on a keyboard unavoidably restricts you very heavily since you won't have access to analogue controls; it either limits or completely removes your ability to do things such as wavedashing, analogue jumping/aerial drifting, recovering with directional recovery moves, lightshielding, tilts, and so on.
 
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Nievy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
10
Hey guys quick question about finger tenseness. Ive seen on forums that u are supposed to have loose hands but does that mean everything just slides off the buttons? I play fox so everything needs to be fast and when I do Short Hop practice I notice I tense my thumb up, weird mental picture but it's like a snake striking something when I press the Y button. Just quick and my joint tenses up. What advice would u guys give? Just loose fingers all around? U guys never grip the controller too hard? I. Not gripping to break just I guess I get tense. Thanks guys, I know I rambled lol
 

SAUS

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
866
Location
Ottawa
Hey guys quick question about finger tenseness. Ive seen on forums that u are supposed to have loose hands but does that mean everything just slides off the buttons? I play fox so everything needs to be fast and when I do Short Hop practice I notice I tense my thumb up, weird mental picture but it's like a snake striking something when I press the Y button. Just quick and my joint tenses up. What advice would u guys give? Just loose fingers all around? U guys never grip the controller too hard? I. Not gripping to break just I guess I get tense. Thanks guys, I know I rambled lol
A lot of inputs will probably be done more forcefully as you learn them, but you should try to make them as relaxed as possible as you go forward. It is entirely for your hand health and definitely shouldn't be taken lightly. A looser grip with looser hand movements will be better for your hands, but it will also be more comfortable for you in general and you will be able to do more inputs faster.
 

Nievy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
10
Thanks for the response man. Another question is these people that are playing melee online, is it just possible through the computer? I have a great rig that I made and that isn't the problem. The problem is that I don't have one of those new no lag HDMI connecting tvs. I have my computer connected to my tv through an HDMI cable. I have a CRT I use and I also have a 60" LCD (that the comp is connected to) but I think there would be some lag input. Idk can anyone help me with this?
 

Gearitz

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 21, 2015
Messages
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Oakleaf,Florida
Thanks for the response man. Another question is these people that are playing melee online, is it just possible through the computer? I have a great rig that I made and that isn't the problem. The problem is that I don't have one of those new no lag HDMI connecting tvs. I have my computer connected to my tv through an HDMI cable. I have a CRT I use and I also have a 60" LCD (that the comp is connected to) but I think there would be some lag input. Idk can anyone help me with this?
crt's have 0 frames of input lag, Analog HD tv's have 2-6 I've heard and LCD/Plasma have 12+ this is just stuff I've read and haven't fully researched if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.
 

Nievy

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
10
crt's have 0 frames of input lag, Analog HD tv's have 2-6 I've heard and LCD/Plasma have 12+ this is just stuff I've read and haven't fully researched if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.
yea that's the dilemma, so no way to run it through the Wii?
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
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Connecticut
How can I get l-cancels to be automatic when I do them I always have to think and it throws me off some other aspects
It's just practice and muscle memory, there's no trick. The only advice I have on l canceling is make sure you don't fully depress the shoulder button as that can mess with tech timings, but unfortunately that won't help with getting it down smooth
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
In my experience, the better you can focus on the tech skill you're trying to learn, the faster you'll learn to do it automatically. It will take a while, and there will unavoidably be a period where you have to sacrifice other aspects of your gameplay to learn l-canceling, it's part of the process. You'll quickly become better at it if you're disciplined.

It's just practice and muscle memory
I want to emphasize that you DON'T want to learn l-canceling as a muscle memory related to other inputs such as aerials, whole SHFF sequences etc. Focus on observing when you're about to land (taking into account whether you're about to hit or whiff, since hitlag delays timings), and learn to l-cancel on visual cue. That way you can always l-cancel regardless of your jump arc, aerial and ff timings and such.
 
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Gearitz

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 21, 2015
Messages
120
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Oakleaf,Florida
In my experience, the better you can focus on the tech skill you're trying to learn, the faster you'll learn to do it automatically. It will take a while, and there will unavoidably be a period where you have to sacrifice other aspects of your gameplay to learn l-canceling, it's part of the process. You'll quickly become better at it if you're disciplined.



I want to emphasize that you DON'T want to learn l-canceling as a muscle memory related to other inputs such as aerials, whole SHFF sequences etc. Focus on observing when you're about to land (taking into account whether you're about to hit or whiff, since hitlag delays timings), and learn to l-cancel on visual cue. That way you can always l-cancel regardless of your jump arc, aerial and ff timings and such.
Yeah that's what's I was hoping to bypass I use the first bit dust on the ground as my cue.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
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Feb 9, 2014
Messages
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I'm not sure of what you exactly mean, but the l-cancel must be input before or exactly as you land, so you can't possibly use the landing animation as the reaction signal.
 
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Gearitz

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 21, 2015
Messages
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Oakleaf,Florida
I'm not sure of what you exactly mean, but the l-cancel must be input before or exactly as you land, so you can't possibly use the landing animation as the reaction signal.
Right when you land you have dust and I use that as the bases so I do it right before I think the dust will appear
 

DarkJosh

Smash Cadet
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Feb 2, 2015
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45
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Goldrush
I have a question

I've wanted to get into the Melee scene for a little bit, but after looking on ebay, most copies sell for $70 or more!
So I was wondering, is it or is it not illegal to play Melee on an emulator if I don't own a physical copy of Melee?
 

Gearitz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
120
Location
Oakleaf,Florida
I have a question

I've wanted to get into the Melee scene for a little bit, but after looking on ebay, most copies sell for $70 or more!
So I was wondering, is it or is it not illegal to play Melee on an emulator if I don't own a physical copy of Melee?
A lot of people play on the dolphin emulator as far as legality I don't know but they haven't cracked down on it and is a very good thing all you need is an adapter and a gamecube controller. I'd look up netplay and things like that after you get dolphin and melee that way you can play against other people if you don't have any friends who are interested to practice with.
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
I have a question

I've wanted to get into the Melee scene for a little bit, but after looking on ebay, most copies sell for $70 or more!
So I was wondering, is it or is it not illegal to play Melee on an emulator if I don't own a physical copy of Melee?
I think technically it is illegal to download a ROM of a game, so even if you have the game you are supposed make the ROM yourself. I could be wrong about the technicality of that, but as far as I know no one or almost no one has been prosecuted for something like this so don't worry about it it you want to emulate/load it onto a Wii.
 

Kulty

Smash Ace
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Jun 4, 2015
Messages
786
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Krocodile Kore
Hi guys,

Which characters are easy to pick up and play in Melee in terms of technical skill? Technical skill meaning characters that don't require a lot of complicated imputs on the Controller in order to perform well at a high skill level. I'm trying to find another character for Melee (so far I have :marthmelee:and :drmario:), so I just want to know some suggestions. I don't mind if the character does have a quite high cerebral learning curve (but not too much, such like one mistake and you're out of a stock). I'm interested in :falconmelee::falcomelee::samusmelee::luigimelee::ganondorfmelee:.
 

Onoh

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 22, 2015
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64
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Ohio
NNID
benclaremom
If you can't do netplay, what is the best way to practice your skills in Melee? I've mostly just played against computers on tournament legal stages.
 

Plunder

Smash Ace
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Jul 12, 2015
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862
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Port Royal
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Been searching for a few minutes, this question is hard to phrase/find though

How many frames before you can get up attack after hitting the ground a missing the tech window?
 

CptJPuff

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
313
Edit:
With some more digging, I found what I was looking for. Disregard this, please.
 
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