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[Bones0]

Im a marth main and I really struggle with approach. I know his fair is good but is there anything else that I should know

Go to the Marth forums and read through the last 30 pages of the Dr. Peepee/Cactuar thread.

 

[Boss N]

Soooo this isn't entirely JUST a Melee question but I'd figure I ask here before making a thread about it.

What Makes Melee, Or Smash Bros. In General, A Superior Competitive Game To Playstation All-Stars?

I come to the melee thread to ask this cuz I'm particularly interested in how it differs mechanically, especially since it supposedly has everything a great competitive platform-fighter should have; very combo-focused that are more intuitive and free-flowing rather than restrictive and linear like most other fighting games.

 

[DerpyDayha]

I'm wondering how to get started. I'm just getting melee, and im not a total noob but I don't know where to start in terms of going from a casual smash 4 player to a competitive melee player. Like what tech skill should I start with. Or maybe there's something I should practice before that. I plan on maining Marth, although I'm interested in ICs, falcon, or sheik. Thx!

 

[KevJames]

My control scheme that I've been using for years has been:

R for Wavedashing and L-Cancelling
L for Shielding (allowing for a more efficient wavedash OOS)
Y to jump
A for smash attacks and aerials

Occasionally, I have used the C-stick for fast fall up-airs, but recently have been told that air maneuverability and spacing with aerials would be improved by using the C-stick for aerials instead of A + directional input. My question is whether it's worth switching to C-stick for a falco/marth main such as myself. The issue I've found is how far the C-stick is from the Y button, which is my jump button. Is this an issue that I just need to overcome and get used to? Is there any hand movements that I need to start practicing?

 

[Bones0]

I'm wondering how to get started. I'm just getting melee, and im not a total noob but I don't know where to start in terms of going from a casual smash 4 player to a competitive melee player. Like what tech skill should I start with. Or maybe there's something I should practice before that. I plan on maining Marth, although I'm interested in ICs, falcon, or sheik. Thx!

Familiarize yourself with the techniques section of SmashLounge.com.

My control scheme that I've been using for years has been:

R for Wavedashing and L-Cancelling
L for Shielding (allowing for a more efficient wavedash OOS)
Y to jump
A for smash attacks and aerials

Occasionally, I have used the C-stick for fast fall up-airs, but recently have been told that air maneuverability and spacing with aerials would be improved by using the C-stick for aerials instead of A + directional input. My question is whether it's worth switching to C-stick for a falco/marth main such as myself. The issue I've found is how far the C-stick is from the Y button, which is my jump button. Is this an issue that I just need to overcome and get used to? Is there any hand movements that I need to start practicing?

A lot of the times I C-stick, I use tap jump to jump. This includes during shine bairs, edgeguards, and many other situations. You kind of have to base it on the specific situation. If you need to C-stick so you get full drift, tap jumping is probably the best. I can't SH with tap jump, but if I'm jumping from the ground, jumpsquat usually gives me enough time to reach the C-stick from Y anyway.

 

[The Cancelled L]

I am fairly new to competitive smash and I can consistently shffl, and wave dash, and I understand teching and how to tech chase, and I know a bit about DI but I still struggle with it.
I'm not really sure what to learn now. I know there are a lot of things to learn but I just don't really know where to go from where I'm at right now. What are the most important techniquess to learn, and which ones are mostly for being flashy?

 

[T0RN]

any good fox pressure tactics? Full jump nair's, shine grabs, upthrow upairs...

 

[T0RN]

I am fairly new to competitive smash and I can consistently shffl, and wave dash, and I understand teching and how to tech chase, and I know a bit about DI but I still struggle with it.
I'm not really sure what to learn now. I know there are a lot of things to learn but I just don't really know where to go from where I'm at right now. What are the most important techniquess to learn, and which ones are mostly for being flashy?

To learn, you want to bait your opponents to throw out a random punishable move to punish, work on wavelanding/overall stage movement, and depending on what characters you use, learn to gimp or pull off easy combos. For flash, learn moonwalking/sticky walking, multishines, ken combos, and just overall good combo game.

 

[Bones0]

I am fairly new to competitive smash and I can consistently shffl, and wave dash, and I understand teching and how to tech chase, and I know a bit about DI but I still struggle with it.
I'm not really sure what to learn now. I know there are a lot of things to learn but I just don't really know where to go from where I'm at right now. What are the most important techniquess to learn, and which ones are mostly for being flashy?

Focus on positioning and stage control. Use the tools you listed above to maintain superior positioning relative to your opponent in order to hit them without getting hit yourself. It's way more complicated than it sounds. lol

 

[Spak]

any good fox pressure tactics? Full jump nair's, shine grabs, upthrow upairs...

I'm not a master Fox player, but you can find more in-depth info about Fox here.

 

[Jackson]

I hear so many different things, so I need a definite answer to start improving it. For the best survival DI, take for example me getting hit by a Fox (facing right) Usmash, should I DI COMPLETELY to the right, 180 degrees, or should I DI to the right and down? Or, even, completely down?

 

[Spak]

I hear so many different things, so I need a definite answer to start improving it. For the best survival DI, take for example me getting hit by a Fox (facing right) Usmash, should I DI COMPLETELY to the right, 180 degrees, or should I DI to the right and down? Or, even, completely down?

In general, you should DI perpendicular to your trajectory (so that you travel towards the top corners of the stage) in order to get the best survival DI because you are trying to make your character travel the maximum distance in order to avoid the blastzone.

 

[Jackson]

In general, you should DI perpendicular to your trajectory (so that you travel towards the top corners of the stage) in order to get the best survival DI because you are trying to make your character travel the maximum distance in order to avoid the blastzone.

So then, straight right in my example?

 

[Kadano]

So then, straight right in my example?

Yes. There is (much) more to it, but for now it’s probably fine for you to assume that straight right is best.

If you want to find out more, you might want to start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RP3sbS7Dm0&t=2m50s

 

[Spak]

So then, straight right in my example?

To the right and ever-so-slightly down, but yes.

EDIT: Sorry, I got the update of Kadano's post right after I posted.

 

[The Cancelled L]

Which advanced techniques can be effectively practiced without another person to practice with? I mean beyond just shffl, wave dash, and basic things.

 

[Bones0]

So then, straight right in my example?

Fox's usmash does not send straight up so you normally would not want to DI straight right. You can influence your DI the most by holding perpendicular to the initial KB angle. The tricky part about some attacks is that the perpendicular angle is near the cardinal directions. The area around the cardinal directions is basically a deadzone where everything is considered to be input as the cardinal direction. So if the optimal DI for something is 91 degrees, you will only be able to get a 90 degree input. This is why you simply DI Fox's usmash right (despite it not sending Here are all the directions you can DI:

So, to my surprise, most people were completely wrong. The following image illustrates the possible angles in Melee:

The angles themselves apply for (the ones I've tested):
SmashDI, Airdodge, up+B with Fox, Falco, Zelda, Sheik, Pichu, Pikachu and Mewtwo.
The length of the lines represent the possible lengths of SmashDI, and the number of lengths are limited by the resolution of the control stick (which is actually too low to even allow all possible angles for the shortest distances).

The large areas without possible angles are rounded to the nearest right angle to prevent accidental aims slightly "off-axis" (and unfortunately make it harder to get that perfect 17-degree angle).

My measurements aren't 100% perfect because of the control stick resolution, but they are good enough to see that the angles aren't evenly spaced (so this is not the result of the poor resolution).

Quick facts:
- There are a total of 352 possible angles.
- Within about ±17° from every right angle, the closest right angle will be used instead.
- In other areas the angles are spaced on average 0,65° from each other.
- The angle-differences fluctuate pretty evenly between 0,3° and 1,0° and are located randomly as far as I can see.
- The same pattern is repeated (and mirrored) for every 45-degree sector.
- SmashDI can be shortened down to 70% of its full length, with the number of intermediate lengths only limited by the control stick.

 

[Kadano]

Which advanced techniques can be effectively practiced without another person to practice with? I mean beyond just shffl, wave dash, and basic things.

No-impact landing, pivot grabs, smashes and tilts, intangible ledgedashes and ledgestalls, quick edgehogs (especially turn → wavedash → fastfall and wavedash → tilt turn (or smash turn if you are really ambitious) → fast fall).

 

[Spak]

In addition to Kadano's list, practicing ledge-cancelling would also be something to think about.

 

[DerpyDayha]

Familiarize yourself with the techniques section of SmashLounge.com.

I know all the techniques. Like i said I'm not a total noob, and I know the techniques and how they are all performed. I've been studying smash boards for over a week, and I have been learning from other sources for much longer. It's putting it into action. I have all this knowledge, so what should I start using first, how do I put it into action, or is there anything at all I should do to start putting what I know into action, and starting to work towards being competitive. Thx again, hope someone will be able to help me start off!

 

[Bones0]

I know all the techniques. Like i said I'm not a total noob, and I know the techniques and how they are all performed. I've been studying smash boards for over a week, and I have been learning from other sources for much longer. It's putting it into action. I have all this knowledge, so what should I start using first, how do I put it into action, or is there anything at all I should do to start putting what I know into action, and starting to work towards being competitive. Thx again, hope someone will be able to help me start off!

If you can do all the advanced techniques, you can start focusing on actually playing the game:

Focus on positioning and stage control. Use the tools you listed above to maintain superior positioning relative to your opponent in order to hit them without getting hit yourself. It's way more complicated than it sounds. lol

There's no real rules about what you should implement first. The best order is probably going to be based on your character, but I'd say the major techniques you should focus on incorporating first are movement-based ones (DD, WD, WL). Ultimately, you have to just play people and experiment on your own.

 

[DerpyDayha]

If you can do all the advanced techniques, you can start focusing on actually playing the game:



There's no real rules about what you should implement first. The best order is probably going to be based on your character, but I'd say the major techniques you should focus on incorporating first are movement-based ones (DD, WD, WL). Ultimately, you have to just play people and experiment on your own.

Thanks, that's just what I needed! Appreciate the help.

 

[T0RN]

Any help for mental game as a fox player? I feel like I have the necessary tech, but I'm questioning some decisions I make.

 

[Bones0]

Any help for mental game as a fox player? I feel like I have the necessary tech, but I'm questioning some decisions I make.

Questioning your decisions is fine as long as it's not while you're playing.

 

[KingDozie]

Do you guys know any games on the internet that increases your reaction time/reflex skills?

 

[T0RN]

Questioning your decisions is fine as long as it's not while you're playing.

So do you have any tips?

 

[Spak]

Do you guys know any games on the internet that increases your reaction time/reflex skills?

I hear Super Smash Brothers Melee requires some good reaction time.

 

[AirFair]

How can I do a fast shield drop? I have to move my shield really slowly so I don't roll, but people do it a lot faster? help?

 

[Bones0]

So do you have any tips?

That was a tip.

 

[CeLL]

What is the weird thing that happens when Fox dash attacks you, you miss the tech, and he immediately dash attacks you again, where there's like no hitstun and if you airdodge you go really high? It happens other times but I got it to consistently happen like this.

 

[T0RN]

That was a tip.

Ok thanks then.

 

[Spak]

What is the weird thing that happens when Fox dash attacks you, you miss the tech, and he immediately dash attacks you again, where there's like no hitstun and if you airdodge you go really high? It happens other times but I got it to consistently happen like this.

It also happens sometimes when you try to chain 2 raptor boosts. I'm not sure of the cause, though.

 

[Spak]

How can I do a fast shield drop? I have to move my shield really slowly so I don't roll, but people do it a lot faster? help?

This is a video I found about a year ago with Axe explaining it. It worked for me, so hopefully it will be of use to you as well.

P.S. If my grammar and phrasing isn't up to par, I apologize. I have a stuffy nose, a splitting headache, and feel sick as a dog.

 

[Spak]

Soooo this isn't entirely JUST a Melee question but I'd figure I ask here before making a thread about it.

What Makes Melee, Or Smash Bros. In General, A Superior Competitive Game To Playstation All-Stars?

I come to the melee thread to ask this cuz I'm particularly interested in how it differs mechanically, especially since it supposedly has everything a great competitive platform-fighter should have; very combo-focused that are more intuitive and free-flowing rather than restrictive and linear like most other fighting games.

The inclusion of competitive techniques (Wavedash, L-Cancel, SHFFL, Dashdance, Ledge Cancelling, etc. (and that is all excluding character-specific tech)), the top 8 are all relatively balanced (top 12 are commonly considered viable), the ability to gimp, the game's general physics, a good number of viable stages with little/no hazards, the top 12 has such variaty that at least one of them usually fits their playstyle, and the fact that it's easy to get into while hard to master makes it attract many new players. There are more reasons, but I can't think straight right now. I'm going to bed. Good night.

 

[DerpyDayha]

Any advice for practicing waveash. I get it one out of every two tries or so, sometimes less, so I know how it's done, I just don't know what would be the best way to practice it so I have it down. Also, what exactly are the situations where I should wavedash over an ordinary dash (im maining Marth in case you're wondering, as I know the applications are different for every character.

 

[T0RN]

Any advice for practicing waveash. I get it one out of every two tries or so, sometimes less, so I know how it's done, I just don't know what would be the best way to practice it so I have it down. Also, what exactly are the situations where I should wavedash over an ordinary dash (im maining Marth in case you're wondering, as I know the applications are different for every character.

To practice, start by short hopping and air dodging towards the ground slowly. Gradually increase your input speeds, then try to move across the stage with it. Possibly practice with Luigi as he has one of the easiest wave dashes. When your opponent is off stage, turn your back to the ledge and you can wavedash onto it. It is a lot quicker than to turn around and jump. Also, use it to fake out opponents. Go at them and quickly wavedash backwards. They may throw out an attack, so you can punish them. Practice wavedashing out of shield so if you are being pressured and there are no other options, you can just waedash away from the pressure directly out of your shield by doing a normal wavedash, but keep holding L or R when you finish the wavedash. Practice wavelanding (air dodging onto a platform) to help you with stage movement.

 

[tauKhan]

What is the weird thing that happens when Fox dash attacks you, you miss the tech, and he immediately dash attacks you again, where there's like no hitstun and if you airdodge you go really high? It happens other times but I got it to consistently happen like this.

It happens when you hit a knocked down character with a move that does less than 7,00% (Staled damage, as usual). If the victim doesn't touch ground in 12 frames, he will go into normal fall state on the 13th and remaining hitstun is canceled. However the kb momentum remains, and as it is separate from your normal momentum, air dodge momentum you get is added to the remaining kb momentum so you go higher. The same applies to anything you do that alters your normal momentum, such as double jumping.

 

[T0RN]

Any advice for practicing waveash. I get it one out of every two tries or so, sometimes less, so I know how it's done, I just don't know what would be the best way to practice it so I have it down. Also, what exactly are the situations where I should wavedash over an ordinary dash (im maining Marth in case you're wondering, as I know the applications are different for every character.

AND WAVEDASH INTO F SMASH

 

[Kadano]

How can I do a fast shield drop? I have to move my shield really slowly so I don't roll, but people do it a lot faster? help?

This image is for 1-frame control stick movements from neutral (dead zone). So shield dropping within 1 frame is possible.

 

[Bones0]

Is there a thread detailing shield pushback calculations? Obviously the defender's traction is important, but I'm wondering if the trajectory of the move being blocked is relevant, or how damage influences pushback.