CheeseDaDisease
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2008
- Messages
- 2
no way is sonic and jiggly that low on the list
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Official Brawl Tier Discussion (OP Updated)
- Thread starter AlphaZealot
- Start date
- Status
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Yeah Jigglypuff should be way higher(probably mid tier), but Sonic deserves to be that low, probably even lower(I'm guessing bottom tier). Seriously though, I don't understand why everyone thinks Sonic is so high, he has absolutely no advantages outside of movement speed. His attacks all have crappy range, damage, speed, priority, and knockback. Also his match-ups are simply garbage. What does he have to put him above low tier?
Florida
イーグランツ
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,184
Actually, I just put Sonic down to the bottom list. I agree, Sonic is garbage. I also just moved Jigglypuff into the middle tier, as suggested. Yoshi from BC insisted that I played his Jigglypuff after viewing my tier list. Rollout is very good now, and Jigglypuff's aerials are good combo breakers. The only thing that was nerfed (badly) was her rest. Though, she's still good, I've concluded.
Why do you have snake so low?
Christova
Smash Cadet
Personally, I would rank Fox higher than Falco, put Olimar up to top tier, probably move DeDeDe down to High Tier, move Wario to low tier, Ganondorf to bottom, Zelda to high, and Captain Falcon to low.
Princess Diana
Amazon
Seeing Peach and Shiek that low on the tier list seems like blasphemy. But really it just reminds you how the mighty have fallen...
Lol...sheik should definitely not be that low. Peach maybe, but sheik is definitely WAY up there. I also think snake should be higher on the list and dedede should be lower.
...........fail
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Peach shouldn't be that low either. People should do more besides dsmash and come to the conclusion "OMG Unplayable!" when Peach does have other moves...
Browny
Smash Hater
theres too much to say, wed be here all night explaining why that list is wrong in almost every single aspect. Mario above zelda is probably the worst crime.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Top:
Marth
Pit
Metaknight
Falco
Snake
Ice Climbers
Toon Link
High:
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Diddy Kong
Zelda
King Dedede
Wolf
R.O.B.
Olimar
Lucas
Mid:
Kirby
Pikachu
Game & Watch
Luigi
Sheik
Squirtle
Charizard
Ike
Peach
Lucario
Ness
Wario
Jigglypuff
Low:
Samus
Donkey Kong
Link
Ivysaur
Bowser
Bottom:
Mario
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Marth
Pit
Metaknight
Falco
Snake
Ice Climbers
Toon Link
High:
Zero Suit Samus
Fox
Diddy Kong
Zelda
King Dedede
Wolf
R.O.B.
Olimar
Lucas
Mid:
Kirby
Pikachu
Game & Watch
Luigi
Sheik
Squirtle
Charizard
Ike
Peach
Lucario
Ness
Wario
Jigglypuff
Low:
Samus
Donkey Kong
Link
Ivysaur
Bowser
Bottom:
Mario
Yoshi
Ganondorf
Sonic
Captain Falcon
Laijin
Smash Hero
Man. Your tier list is more ******** than this thread. You put Kirby as mid when that dude is high tier along with Snake and Metaknight.
High:
Kirby
Snake
Metaknight
ZS Samus
Marth
Ike
Diddy Kong
Everyone else does'nt matter
High:
Kirby
Snake
Metaknight
ZS Samus
Marth
Ike
Diddy Kong
Everyone else does'nt matter
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
OK, let me just throw this out before anyone makes comments about my tier list. First off I base my tier lists on match-ups, so if a character has a lot of good match-ups then I rank them higher on the tier list. Secondly, if you're going to dispute my tier list then post the match-ups of said character to offer a better argument.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Kirby has almost no bad matches. Except for maybe snake and toon link. But even then, its not that bad. Snake is the same way. I dont believe he has many bad match ups either. But you put him high, so thats cool. But Kirby, that guy should be top. Pit? ICs? Mid at most. Pit's cool. But not very good.
furyberserk
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2007
- Messages
- 89
Pit can't recover after using the up B the first time, it was stated before. Sonic is pretty useless to me without any experience.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Almost all of the IC's match-ups are either fair or good with like one or two bad match-ups that are like 4/6 at most. Pit just has a whole lot of match-ups where here completely dominates. Kirby on the other hand mostly has fair match-ups with a few notably bad ones(especially against characters with disjointed hitboxes), but he doesn't have much in the way of good match-ups.
Assuming that there's no order within each tier grouping, I'd say Corner Trap's list is pretty accurate, at least in Brawl's current state.
The only things I'd note right now are that the Ice Climbers and Olimar's positions have to assume ideal situations of having all your Pikmen and Nana still alive. Especially in the recovery department. Obviously that's less an issue for Olimar who can just pull more from the ground, but both can be caught at a disadvantage and gimped quickly because of their recoveries depending on factors outside of the character's abilities and player skills.
Generally speaking their other strengths do outweigh that, I still think both will end up somewhere near the bottom of the high tier grouping though.
The only things I'd note right now are that the Ice Climbers and Olimar's positions have to assume ideal situations of having all your Pikmen and Nana still alive. Especially in the recovery department. Obviously that's less an issue for Olimar who can just pull more from the ground, but both can be caught at a disadvantage and gimped quickly because of their recoveries depending on factors outside of the character's abilities and player skills.
Generally speaking their other strengths do outweigh that, I still think both will end up somewhere near the bottom of the high tier grouping though.
Aurashade
Smash Ace
You people fail! Tier list has nothing to do with gameplay!
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
There is no actual order of characters within the tiers themselves. And a lot of the placings were decided upon the characters match-ups, along with their abilities. Olimar is good in every single region of the game except recovery, so I was thinking about putting him in top tier, but he has some severely bad match-ups(MK, Wolf) which is what ultimately made me put him in high tier.
There should be a seperate tier list for online, since the gameplay is so much different (due to lag and button delay). I simply cannot beat a Wolf or an Ike while playing online. By the time I try to react to anything either of these characters do, I get punished. Wolf because he is so fast, Ike because of this B moves.
Anyways, high tier (no particular order):
Mario
Zelda
T. Link
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Luigi
G&W
Of course some others as well, but these characters I know can be really good.
Anyways, high tier (no particular order):
Mario
Zelda
T. Link
Wolf
Fox
Falco
Luigi
G&W
Of course some others as well, but these characters I know can be really good.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Mario is most definitely not high tier. He's much worse since Melee and simply doesn't stack up with the rest of the characters in Brawl. Also making a tier list specifically for online play is pointless.
shadydentist
Smash Lord
Hm... i would put game and watch higher. He's one of the few characters with a good grab game, has perhaps the best shield pressure move in the game (back air), not to mention tons of disjointed hitboxes and very fast smashes. Corner-Trap, I want to hear your opinion on this.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Personally I would put G&W in either Mid or High tier because he does have a lot going for him. Only problem is his extremely light weight giving him bad match-ups to anyone whose good at vertical kills.
TOP
Toon Link
Marth
Falco
Pit
HIGH
Fox
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Metaknight
Ike
King DDD
Lucas
Snake
Olimar
MIDDLE
ROB
Luigi
Lucario
Game and Watch
Sheik
Kirby
Pikachu
ZSS
Zelda
Mario
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Peach
Bowser
C. Falcon
Jigglypuff
Link
Ivysaur
LOW
Ness
Sonic
Charizard
Samus
Yoshi
Wario
BOTTOM
Ganondorf
DK
I'm open to suggestions.
EDIT 1: Changed DK, Yoshi, Sonic, and Wario
EDIT 2: Put Toon Link above Marth, put Pit at TOP tier
Toon Link
Marth
Falco
Pit
HIGH
Fox
Diddy Kong
Wolf
Metaknight
Ike
King DDD
Lucas
Snake
Olimar
MIDDLE
ROB
Luigi
Lucario
Game and Watch
Sheik
Kirby
Pikachu
ZSS
Zelda
Mario
Ice Climbers
Squirtle
Peach
Bowser
C. Falcon
Jigglypuff
Link
Ivysaur
LOW
Ness
Sonic
Charizard
Samus
Yoshi
Wario
BOTTOM
Ganondorf
DK
I'm open to suggestions.
EDIT 1: Changed DK, Yoshi, Sonic, and Wario
EDIT 2: Put Toon Link above Marth, put Pit at TOP tier
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Because they are both quite honestly bad in this game. Yoshi doesn't have a single notably good match-up, and Samus has been nerfed in every area possible without receiving any buffs to compensate.
Samus is amazing. Take a look at the Samus boards, the new discoveries with her make up for nerfs. Just because chargeshot doesn't kill as well as it used to doesn't mean shes bad.
And Yoshi may not have any good matchups for you...the majority of people suck with Yoshi. I can flawlessy take out "high tier" people like Pit and Metaknight, just spike then into oblivion.
This whole thread is a joke. People are wasting their time discussing a list that really has no effect on gameplay what so ever. Whats the point? Are people just waiting to find out whos "high tier" because they would rather play someone cheap then actually devote time to a character they like?
Pen2
Smash Cadet
Rofl.
Gaming Watch's strength n' priority are ridiculous. His down air is by far the fastest in the game which can easily be "looked to be L-cancel" but is not into a chair. He is definately top tier.
Mark my words the top will be these characters but in this exact order < Wario-G&W-MetaKinght- Toon Link.
There move-sets are amazing. Strong (except Metaknight) which he has priority over almost anything. Rofl.
Gaming Watch's strength n' priority are ridiculous. His down air is by far the fastest in the game which can easily be "looked to be L-cancel" but is not into a chair. He is definately top tier.
Mark my words the top will be these characters but in this exact order < Wario-G&W-MetaKinght- Toon Link.
There move-sets are amazing. Strong (except Metaknight) which he has priority over almost anything. Rofl.
And will more people not use an easy character like Marth, then an advanced one, like Yoshi?
It doesn't mean Yoshi's bad, it just means most people suck with him.
Corner-Trap
Smash Ace
Why are you even posting in this thread then?
bowz10190
Smash Apprentice
I couldn't agree with you more. Yoshi is really good, it's just that the majority of the people who use him, suck. My friend is REALLY good with Yoshi, I know what I'm talking about. He's at least mid tier in my opinion.
You basically said my two characters were horrible. I'm simply correcting you.
You main Ice Climbers. Personally, I think they suck...but thats my opinion, and its my opinion because I can't use the Ice Climbers at all. In reality I know people like you can.
It all comes down to skill. My argument still stands that this list accomplishes nothing.
kackamee
Smash Master
Put Pit and T.Link above Marth, Move yoshi up a tier and bunk down DK, Put Ice Climbers and G&W above Olimar and I will be totally happy
This doesn't make any sense. The tiers have nothing to do with ease of use, but rather just overall being good. Fox is incredibly hard to use, yet top of the tier (in melee of course). Just because a character is easy to use doesn't mean he's going to be good.
There are a lot of things most of you don't even consider when making a tier, and it's difficult because of all the tiny details that need to be addressed. (this makes one of your points, and I agree that this thread isn't any good for making a tier....but it's good for arguing out characters, as long as good people are arguing)
To your credit, people won't try to use a character that they don't have a feel for, and Yoshi is just one of those characters that isn't very straightforward to most. But a good Yoshi or two will present themselves. They just won't beat many Meta Knights
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