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Official advance Pikmin and Olimar guide (Finally got done)

Mitsuko

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
85
Combo's section updated, more advance tech
NOTE: Please, Please, help me by posting things you find out and I'll put credit for your work on the section (special thanks section)
It never occurred to me why no one has posted combo and technical information about olimar much in the olimar thread, maybe it's because of people saying things like olimar is a noob character, blah blah blah, (well, i did it once, cause i thought he was easy to use, sorry). but beside the point, I'm gonna post strategy for using olimar here.
NOTE: I'll be updating this frequently, it's not all done.


Table of Contents




1. Combos
  • Normal combos
  • Pseudo chain grab
  • Hand to hand (no pikmin) combos
2. All about Pikmin!!
  • He's Killed all my Pikmin!!!!
  • Pikmin Line Efficiency
3. Special Attacks
  • Pikmin Order
  • Pikmin Chain
  • Pikmin Throw
4. Standard, Smash, and Aerial Assaults
  • Smash Attacks
  • Aerial Attacks
  • Standard Attacks
5. Advance Tech
  • B-sticking
  • RAR (Reverse angle rush)
  • Super Armor Frames
  • Rising SAF
  • Uspecial spike
6. Special Thanks
  • Pikminx45
  • Fino
1. Combos


Normal combos
For your basic Olimar combo, it would be: throw pikmin, grab. but that never gets enough damage, i believe that olimar could be one of the best comboers in the game, if used correctly. During my play with olimar, it seems to me like the nair could potentially be a good combo starter, throw a pikmin, jump at them, nair, grab, up throw, smash up, jump and do uair. later though, i realized, that because stun time is second to nothing, that the nair, would be a bad idea. so, onto combos that would work. if you can't get a pikmin on them, then here's one i invented that should help, mind you, it's not perfect though: fair, ftilt, fsmash (opposite direction, if done right, they should be on the other side), dash attack, usmash. It's not perfect because of the dash, but, issued correctly can prove to be usefully. the classic combo, is pikmin throw, grab, throw down, utilt, usmash, uair. (i added in the utilt, it works and adds a little extra damage). Another combo that I just tested that would work well would be nair, usmash, uair. not much, but it's still something. My favorite killing combo is only two moves :D What you do is get on the ledge, then you lie in wait for your opponent to move in close enough, then you ledge attack, they'll be knocked off the stage (if close enough), then all you do is spike them!!! Just ask Pikminx45 how many times i pulled this on my brother. lol. Another classic combo is dthrow, fair, spike, (only if close enough), it's effective, but can be DI'd out of quite easily, just as a warning. One of my most used combos though is; grab, grab hit, down throw, uspecial. The best part of this is that they usually DI right into it :D

Pseudo chain grab
This technique here is what I like to call a pseudo chain grab, in that it's not technically a chain, but you can get 3-4 consecutive grabs off with moves in the middle (somewhat making it a lot better).
Essentially this is most useful in the beginning of the match (as most are). First, you grab, then dthrow, fsmash (makes them 'air trip'), dash grab, dthrow, SH, fair, FF, grab. And you repeat the last 5 a couple more times (if possible). I usually like to start up with the fsmash and not a fair, simply for diminishing returns, but that's just me. If at all possible you can try to pikmin toss in between the ending animation of your fair into your FF with little lag, and then grabbing again will really soar their percents. When you finally fair them out of your range, I like to either dash and go into another fair, do a couple pikmin tosses, or, if you've done it perfectly, go for the spike with dair. If your dthrow ever gets too far out of range of being able to fair them, go for the pikmin chain... typically if you do a perfect chain at the beginning of a match, your 4th throw can be finished with a pikmin chain and it'll sweet spot it.

Hand to hand Combos
OK, so there won't be much in this section right now, as to, i haven't figured out much on this. Basically, the point of this section is to explain the idea of hand to hand combat, something, that may, to your fear, must be used, (there's way more on this in the "He's killed all my Pikmin" section, this section is just for the combos). The only combo i have so far is dash attack, dash attack, utilt, nair. I'm sorry, but it's pretty simple, and is probably easily DI'd out of pretty well. (one thing to remember in all combos, is that they're just a chain of attacks, and with the new almost nothing stun time, people can DI out of combos if they try hard enough). Another, short but good combo, is just dtilt, then follow them with an nair, save your ftilt mostly, that'll be your killing move.



2. All about Pikmin!!


He's Killed all my Pikmin!!!!
A good player knows to keep olimar pressured, and kill all his pikmin, but don't let him pluck anymore, this is why you need to practice using olimar's hand to hand combat. Olimar really isn't that bad at hand to hand combat, most of his attacks do decent damage, (around 13%) and a few have decent enough nockback, the point is, to fight the opponent off and knock him far enough back so that you can repluck the pikmin. Probably his most usefully hand to hand attack is his dtilt, yes, i know it doesn't have very good damage or knock back, but it's range isn't bad for no pikmin, it's quick, and, it has a disjointed hitbox. What?? you say. well, here to answer your question, olimar's antenna acts like Ike's sword basically, it's not connected to the actually character. another good move is is ftilt and dash. they both have decent knockback, and decent damage, and aren't that slow, these would be moves to either start a hand to hand combo, or to knock them far enough back as to get more pikmin. an opponent is not gowning to expect you to start combo and killing him with no pikmin. another thing to think about is recovery, let's say jiggly is WoPing you, how do you recover with no pikmin. the best way is to air dodge toward the stage, and fast fall randomly (if you can) to confuse the opponent. I'll update if i find a better way. If you're ever stuck in a position where you have to kill without any pikmin, ftilt is your best bet.

Pikmin Line Efficiency
OK, so if you want a Really good guide on all the aspects on line efficiency, then go to http://smashboards.com//showthread.php?t=157770. I'll briefly discuss the essentials here though. So you ask "what exactly is line efficiency?" Line efficiency is where you have Pikmin lines that express the strengths of Olimar, there are good, and bad lines. If you have a bad line, it's not all bad though, you then can use the Pikmin throw to attack your enemy, and get rid of your pikmin at the same time. The best kind of line is a line where you have two Reds, Two Blues, and Two purples, that way you have good attack, throw, and a extra power, but you could always have yellows instead of reds for air efficiency.



3. Special Attacks


Pikmin Order
You probably already know that Olimar's Pikmin Order has a couple of SAF at the start, if you don't. I'll tell you, the beginning of Olimar's Pikmin Order has frames that you still take damage, but don't flinch at all, doing this in battle, could result in wining the match, it makes a big difference. After doing the Pikmin Order, there will be a bit of ending lag, so i wouldn't recommend using this as a counter for fast characters, and don't always use it, surprise the opponent, like, use it to stop a juggler, or some a jigglypuff WoPing you. But you can't always use this, because, then you wouldn't be able to strategically use different pikmin. Another thing about the Pikmin Order is it doesn't take the next pikmin in line, it goes, in order, when you use it, Red, Yellow, Blue, White, Purple. I say this only because, you need to be able to get a purple pikmin out if you're off the edge and stop someone who's trying to gimp you. The only other thing to say about this move is that it calls back your pikmin, this is only usefully to get them back to recover on to the stage. In my opinion, this is one of, if not, Olimar's best move, learn to utilize it well. a good way to practice SAF, is face a level 9 Ike, and only use down B and try to SAF all of his attacks.

Pikmin Chain
This is one move that a lot of people under estimate, I've found a few uses, it can be surprising, and it hit's people at an angle, has decent knockback too. anyway, your safe after using it most of the time because they won't get to you in time. Another way I use this move is to end a combo, if you are comboing, and there too far up, but in the air, it's a good ending move, just for the extra damage. It's also useful on those floaty characters, and can be used to keep people away from the edges. This move is not nearly as usefully as Pikmin order, but it's still good, and can be incorporated into game play, if used well. The last thing i want to say about it is, it has much more range then most people expect and homes into ledges, so don't worry about exact angles when recovering. (on a different note, if you are close enough, you can use the pikmin throw to get a slight boost forward and recover that way).

Pikmin Throw
So I know I'm doing a lot about his B moves, but what the heck, there's a lot to discuss. You may already know about this, b sticking, use it, (if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's where you use your b moves with the C stick by changing your control scheme). the reason i say this is because using this move while retreating is really good, that way they can't get to you, and you can get more pikmin if your opponent kills them. The tactic to do this is wave bouncing, you simply jump, and tap the C stick back wards (when it's set to special moves), you won't change directions, but you'll be shot back, very useful. Another thing about this move is, you have to know what pikmin you're throwing, otherwise, you could ruin your rhythm because of an unexpected occurrence. Other things to do with this move is to chase your pikmin, that way, they're concentrated on either killing the pikmin on them, or dogging it, basically, giving you a free attack.



4. Standard, smash, and Aerial assaults


Smash Attacks
Big issue. Most of you have probably been playing as Olimar, and you can never seem to kill them, this is most likely because of over-used smash attacks, the decay factor in this game is incredible, you have to save your smash attacks, no matter how tempting it may be, for the high damage kill. In the long run though, this tactic will save you a lot of time, and you'll be a lot more deadly as an opponent. Another thing about the combos, you can incorporate smash attacks into combos, so each life, make sure you save one of the smash attacks to KO with, and then be able to combo with the rest. (each time you die, the decay factor is reset). if it were me, I'd probably save the Dsmash for killing, like, when they try to return to the ledge, use Dsmash, since no decay on that move yet, it would kill them.

Aerial Attacks
So you might have heard from somewhere that Olimar has bad air game, this, I'll tell you right now, is a big, fat, lie! Olimar can actually have a pretty decent air game if you know what your doing. First of all, if you're going for the aerial assault, a yellow pikmin would be the best, these fly in slightly higher arcs, so they travel slightly farther in the air, and have decent damage (they also make an awesome sound, XD). Know that if you're in the air as Olimar, your best moves will be nair, fair, and bair. The fair and bair can also make good killing moves, so use wisely. Just keep short hopping and pummeling the opponent with these moves (for more damage, throw a pikmin on him before hand to distract and rack up damage). Once and awhile use dair, for diversity and major stun, but get back because they'll have invincibility frames for a bit after that from hitting the ground and getting back up. Use RAR (reverse angle rush) to hit them with bair. Uair is kinda iffy, if you hit them, it does great damage, but if you miss, you're incredibly vulnerable, and, some characters dair's go right through it. With this move, just be careful, and only use it once in a row, twice could be dangerous.

Standard Attacks
Olimar's standard attacks are not as bad as you think, many of them are very good for combos or just for some extra damage. Your two best standard attacks (when you have Pikmin) are probably your ftilt, and your running move, the ftilt is incredibly useful for just doing a fair then ftilt, if your close enough to the ground and they have low damage. The running move, on the other hand, is a very good combo starter. It hits them diagonally upwards (also depends on the DI), so you can easily jump up and start air comboing him, and always, you can use uspecial (that move is AWESOME!). Next is the standard jab, if your gonna use this, almost always hit it twice, this move can hit three times, and the second jab hit's behind you! The first hit stuns them, then the second has knockback. Once in a while, just do it once to mix things up, and when they are still figuring out what happened, combo them! Dtilt is another good move, this move has a disjointed hit box, so it can be used well. It hits the opponent up, so it's another good one for comboing, and it can hit twice, but only at low damage, and when that's the case, i wouldn't use this move anyway. The last move to discuss is nair. This move, well, it's not really ever that good unless you have no Pikmin, then just short hop and use it for damage, this goes for utilt as well.


5. Advance Tech


B-sticking
Now that wave dashing is out of the way, we (as in the people who wave dash) have to find a new tactic, that will still be a good advantage in battle. Finally it's come, B-sticking is where you change the C-stick to use special moves instead of smash attacks. You ask, "well why is this usefully?". It's usefully because it pushes you back when your in the air when using certain special moves, different characters go back different amounts, but over all, it results in a retreating special. That is called Wavebounceing, there's a video of it right here http://youtube.com/watch?v=53Wix_KsK5g&feature=related. watch that and you can probably get the gist of this technique

RAR (Reverse angle rush)
RAR is just a basic, but very useful and versatile technique. RAR stands for Reverse Angle Rush. To do this, you can either B-stick so that you can attack backwards, or do it manually, since B-sticking is only usefully for special moves. To RAR, you simply smash the control stick the other direction, and jump, this will result in having the same moment going forward, but with a reversed jump, this can be used for doing bair or fair (depending on the situation) to hit the opponent with the move you wish.

Super Armor Frames
I talked about this a bit in the earlier sections, and there's not that much to talk about, so this'll be a small section. Super Armor Frames are frames in which the character can't flinch. this makes it so that when someone attacks you with an attack that can kill, you can SAF it and then counter. Olimar's only move (so far) that has these is his Dspecial, the beginning few frames is where the SAF's are, it's fairly easy to pull off. another thing about this is to keep it random, so that your opponent is surprised and doesn't recover, other wise, they might see it coming, recover before the move ends, and kill you. One more thing about this is, don't use it on a character like sonic, they're way faster than you, and could probably kill you before you could counter attack, just camp for those kind of characters.

Rising SAF
This is a technique that I discovered that makes you rise into the air while having SAF (super armor frames). To do this, simply dspecial, then jump. It's easiest to do while b-sticking. This will result in rising as you have super armor frames, but you have to have a jump, otherwise it won't work. You may think that this is pointless, but it works really well to defend against people trying to spike you, or a WoPing jigglypuff, practically anything that keeps you from recovering. After that you will have the advantage, and can return to the edge/stage, or reverse spike them to there doom (love doing that, they never expect it, :D).

Uspecial spike
Pikminx45 showed me this technique, it can prove quite useful. Don't you get annoyed when someone gimps you when on the ledge, well if you hit an opponent with the bottom of the first Pikmin in the Pikmin chain move, they'll be instantly shot to the ground, of course, you can't still get on the edge... so it's kinda a final killing move. Here are some advantages to using this:
1) They die first, so if you're on your last stock, both of you, then you'll win.
2) It evens things out. if they had zero damage, they'll still die, so no matter what, both people will die.
3) It's unexpected. People don't expect to die from Olimar when on the ledge, if enough people do this, the less others will want to gimp an Olimar player, :D
Those are just a few reasons, there's probably several other than what i just stated, but learning this is essential, it could change the difference of loosing or wining.



6. Special Thanks
  • Pikminx45
  • Fino
NOTE: I am excepting suggestions for this guide, so please, help me make it better!!

updates coming soon...
 

keeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,080
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
I have a blunt suggestion. Fix these two words spelling: "Pseudo" and "Aerial."

I have yet to read it all and will suggest more later.
 

Sans Glutin

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
759
Location
Yesterday
. You ask, "well why is this usefully?". It's usefully because it pushes you back when your in the air when using certain special moves, different characters go back different amounts, but over all, it results in a retreating special.
Pretty good guide overall, you could add in Olimar's moveset though just for some more information.
 

pesticide

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 24, 2006
Messages
1,028
Location
Switching mains? in CFL
yea. feels like ive read this stuff somewhere else... ah well. it's still good stuff to review.

btw, SAF from olimar's whistle have won me more than a few matches :) it's usually totally unexpected.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
I haven't looked through it yet, but is RAR really an advanced tech? I assumed it was a "given" like...walking.
 

OlimarFan

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
790
Location
ACT, Australia
*off topic*

Oh yeah, I've heard it is easier to Uspecial spike with Certain Pikmin. Can you experiment and see if it is true?
Hey, didn't I see you in Brawl Central in the Pikmin and Olimar forums?

*back to topic*

I think you can spike better with certain Pikmin but I'm not sure.
Personally, I don't like using Olimar's Up-B as an offensive move. It makes me feel a bit...undefended. I'd prefer to retreat and throw a couple of Pikmin.

Note: I have not seen NC-Echo and Mr. X use Up-B as an offensive move...and they're pretty good players if you ask me.
 

Dr. Hyde

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
715
Location
Sarasota, FL
Sorry to say, while you did compile a list of data and that takes a lot of work, I'm seeing this for myself, I'm also seeing this guide as lacking in what the other two guides have already provided.

True Redemption made THE advanced Olimar tech. guide and it has quite a lot of information if you check it out. Sorry if this post seems like I am looking down on your guide just saying there was a guide, of Advanced techs, that was made before this one and has what I feel more vital information.
 

Mitsuko

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
85
i just felt like making a guide, the dair spike is good with anything but white, same with the uspecial spike. The uspecial spike is very usefull and suprising, it can make you win the match, it's only usefull for recovering though, and it's almost a suicide unless you are close enough to the edge, i guess it could be olimar's Olicide or something, lol. i posted this guide earlier when in very beta stages, and it was shot down, so once i completed it, i put it back up.
 

DarkStraw

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
179
i dont think the UP+B spikes all the time, at low percents they can recover from it.
 

Mitsuko

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 13, 2008
Messages
85
Well that's obvious, that's true for any spike, except lugi's dtuant spike, :D seccond main.
 

Esca

Smash Champion
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Feb 5, 2008
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Location
Beaumont, Texas
The last move to discuss is nair. This move, well, it's not really ever that good unless you have no Pikmin, then just short hop and use it for damage, this goes for utilt as well.
I strongly disagree with this statement. While Olimar, he has a very good combo involving the nair. its dthrow > running u-smash > sh-nair> either uair, fair, or up-b.

His nair also hits 13 to 15, and it's VERY VERY good for combo-ing.

Edit: Also, something you guys may not have known yet, is that Olimar's up b actually makes him go higher to the edge without any pikmin. His up b with no pikmin is equivalent to his up b with 2 pikmin, so if your about to get gimped, and you have 1 pikmin, throw him away, and then up-b, it sounds dumb, but you have a better chance of living.
 

Mitsuko

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
85
I strongly disagree with this statement. While Olimar, he has a very good combo involving the nair. its dthrow > running u-smash > sh-nair> either uair, fair, or up-b.

His nair also hits 13 to 15, and it's VERY VERY good for combo-ing.

Edit: Also, something you guys may not have known yet, is that Olimar's up b actually makes him go higher to the edge without any pikmin. His up b with no pikmin is equivalent to his up b with 2 pikmin, so if your about to get gimped, and you have 1 pikmin, throw him away, and then up-b, it sounds dumb, but you have a better chance of living.
I know that it's good combo material, but the ending lag is so bad that it's really dangerous to do, especially if you miss. The upB thing i know about, although i didn't know the exact specs on that, i knew about the boosted AI for the move with no pikmin.
 

Mitsuko

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
85
One combo that works 1/3 of the time:

grab, downthrow, run upsmash, up air, up B

You have to follow your opponent's DI to get the up B part.
Increadibly easy to DI out of, if at low damage you can just dair and take the advantage, that combo works abotu 1/100 of the time to good players.
 

OlimarFan

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Messages
790
Location
ACT, Australia
Increadibly easy to DI out of, if at low damage you can just dair and take the advantage, that combo works abotu 1/100 of the time to good players.
It's quite hard, but a good Olimar player can pull it off.
For example, Echo successfully pulled it off in some of his vids, especially his matches against Karn (R.O.B)
 

Mitsuko

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 13, 2008
Messages
85
yes, Olimar's tilts are all very good, but for example, you can use usmash instead of utilt, it has about the same lag time, except that the usmash can hit on the side for some reason, and it's more powerful. ftilt is really good for comboing, so is dtilt, and jab, so those are all good, but the nair doesn't have disjointed hit boxes, so it's easier to kill you when doing that move, same with the ftilt, but the ftilt is still really useful in my opinion.
 
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