Browny
Smash Hater
Link to original post: [drupal=1912]Observation on trends in Brawl Re: Olimar[/drupal]
[Thread title deliberately missing info to prevent flaming]
When I first got brawl me and my brother effectively banned MK and Snake as we knew they were too good. We wanted to get a feel for all the characters while not getting the wrong impressions of how good/bad they are based on some matchups vs the two obviously top characters. To this list we also added Olimar. We weren't very good at the time so his cstick spam was unbeatable
My first tier list in April had Olimar in his own 'broken as f**k tier' and claims of olimar being top tier were laughable. As time goes on I stand by my early claim of Olimar being top tier and over the past few months ive observed many things which I believe indicate this may indeed be true. Not now, but sometime in the future I still believe he will be top tier.
Its not all just my biased claims though and bad experiences vs Olimar which leads me to think this. Allow me to divulge.
In the early MU threads everyone has the advantage on olimar. Hes so easy to gimp, dies at 50% every stock. This rapidly changed once people actually played against olimar. Whistle armor, uair and proper DI had many Olimar players rarely getting gimped at all and the best players proved it. In a very short space of time his major weakness was proven not to be so detrimental after all. It still affects him greatly but people accepted getting him offstage is a seriously hard task. Some seriously damaging combos are also found with him being able to combo most heavies up to 40%+ and even lightweights, if he reads an AD correctly anyone can take huge damage from his extremely easy to land combos from his grab. Olimar is looking dangerous.
Then came the period of 'perfect camping'. With people mastering pivot grabs and spacing, could it be possible to defeat every enemy without ever being hit? Full-blown camping strategies begin to bring his matchups vs Metaknight and Falco close to even. Although not feasible entirely, his camping strategies become no joke and most characters are now no longer figuring out how to get him offstage, getting past his pivot grab is the new aim.
And then the period of what I call realisation. Characters who assumed to have a large advantage vs Olimar actually play vs good Olimar players can come to the realisation that getting past his camping is a lot more than putting theory into practice. Many of his matchups as discussed by other boards begin to state that "Olimar is much harder than we thought"
I read through almost all character matchup threads on a very regular basis and a common theme is developing. Olimar is harder than what is currently listed. From the bottom of the tiers with jiggly, ganon etc claiming a nigh unwinnable MU vs him to the top of top tier with Snake and DDD admitting a sizeable disadvantage to Olimar and MK/diddy/wario being very close to even. I dont think Ive read a single character MU thread without at least one mention of Olimar being a candidate for hardest matchup. This observation is becoming more and more common as time goes on, I believe it will continue as people get more experience vs a wider variety of players and realise this for themselves.
So in summary, my observations;
Olimar shoots up tier list rapidly after proving what hes capable of.
Boasts advantages of near even matchups vs almost all of top tier.
Is a candidate for the hardest MU for an extremely wide variety of characters. From DDD, Snake, Diddy, Lucario, Toon Link, Sonic, Sheik, Ike... the list goes on.
IMO, a character with those sort of traits is top tier. Snake, Wario, Diddy etc do not even come close to boasting the amount of hardest matchups that olimar does. In some ways it looks to me like he is the melee sheik. He may not have the potential to win major tournaments, but he invalidates the majority of the cast to a much larger degree than any other top tier character except MK. In this respect he is similar to Marth, except he boast an advantage agasint D3 and Snake with a disadvantage to MK which is worth a lot in the current Brawl metagame, hence Marths current placement. I still believe Olimar will be top tier by the time brawl is finished (MK Snake/IC's Olimar for top 4) and if these trends continue, it may be sooner than we think :/
[Thread title deliberately missing info to prevent flaming]
When I first got brawl me and my brother effectively banned MK and Snake as we knew they were too good. We wanted to get a feel for all the characters while not getting the wrong impressions of how good/bad they are based on some matchups vs the two obviously top characters. To this list we also added Olimar. We weren't very good at the time so his cstick spam was unbeatable
My first tier list in April had Olimar in his own 'broken as f**k tier' and claims of olimar being top tier were laughable. As time goes on I stand by my early claim of Olimar being top tier and over the past few months ive observed many things which I believe indicate this may indeed be true. Not now, but sometime in the future I still believe he will be top tier.Its not all just my biased claims though and bad experiences vs Olimar which leads me to think this. Allow me to divulge.
In the early MU threads everyone has the advantage on olimar. Hes so easy to gimp, dies at 50% every stock. This rapidly changed once people actually played against olimar. Whistle armor, uair and proper DI had many Olimar players rarely getting gimped at all and the best players proved it. In a very short space of time his major weakness was proven not to be so detrimental after all. It still affects him greatly but people accepted getting him offstage is a seriously hard task. Some seriously damaging combos are also found with him being able to combo most heavies up to 40%+ and even lightweights, if he reads an AD correctly anyone can take huge damage from his extremely easy to land combos from his grab. Olimar is looking dangerous.
Then came the period of 'perfect camping'. With people mastering pivot grabs and spacing, could it be possible to defeat every enemy without ever being hit? Full-blown camping strategies begin to bring his matchups vs Metaknight and Falco close to even. Although not feasible entirely, his camping strategies become no joke and most characters are now no longer figuring out how to get him offstage, getting past his pivot grab is the new aim.
And then the period of what I call realisation. Characters who assumed to have a large advantage vs Olimar actually play vs good Olimar players can come to the realisation that getting past his camping is a lot more than putting theory into practice. Many of his matchups as discussed by other boards begin to state that "Olimar is much harder than we thought"
I read through almost all character matchup threads on a very regular basis and a common theme is developing. Olimar is harder than what is currently listed. From the bottom of the tiers with jiggly, ganon etc claiming a nigh unwinnable MU vs him to the top of top tier with Snake and DDD admitting a sizeable disadvantage to Olimar and MK/diddy/wario being very close to even. I dont think Ive read a single character MU thread without at least one mention of Olimar being a candidate for hardest matchup. This observation is becoming more and more common as time goes on, I believe it will continue as people get more experience vs a wider variety of players and realise this for themselves.
So in summary, my observations;
Olimar shoots up tier list rapidly after proving what hes capable of.
Boasts advantages of near even matchups vs almost all of top tier.
Is a candidate for the hardest MU for an extremely wide variety of characters. From DDD, Snake, Diddy, Lucario, Toon Link, Sonic, Sheik, Ike... the list goes on.
IMO, a character with those sort of traits is top tier. Snake, Wario, Diddy etc do not even come close to boasting the amount of hardest matchups that olimar does. In some ways it looks to me like he is the melee sheik. He may not have the potential to win major tournaments, but he invalidates the majority of the cast to a much larger degree than any other top tier character except MK. In this respect he is similar to Marth, except he boast an advantage agasint D3 and Snake with a disadvantage to MK which is worth a lot in the current Brawl metagame, hence Marths current placement. I still believe Olimar will be top tier by the time brawl is finished (MK Snake/IC's Olimar for top 4) and if these trends continue, it may be sooner than we think :/
Disadvantage MU
Disadvantage MU, not worst
