Not doing anything about mii

[Auramaniji]

Mii by design are custom made characters. You choose the movesets, size, how it looks like, gender, etc. Also, if you read my posts above, I just used For Glory as an argument since another user in this forum, still forgot his name, uses random in game modes like event modes as a reason as to why Miis must use their '1111' sets.

Can you bring that post up for me? I'd really like to reasoning behind it if you don't mind. If you can't that is perfectly fine by me. However, can you explain why random in game modes have to do with 1111 being allowed in a competitive environment, customs off? I find that an interesting counter arugment.

 

[Balgorxz]

I'm pretty sure if you asked the entrants of a major tournament if customs should be allowed for mii (standard size) and palutena most of the people would say yes, there are so many people that have put a lot of effort in those characters and we as a community are currently banning those characters only because of our selfishness.
a lot of top players when streaming have said they would actually support that even if they think that it will never happen, weird, huh most of the people want something that they doubt that will happen, then what is stopping it from trying it.

 

[Illuminose]

Allowing Palutena with customs off has no logical basis. Miis I guess should be allowed, but default size only. Tiny Mii Brawler is not a thing that should be allowed.

 

[Pazx]

@ Illuminose are you banning tiny Mii Brawler on account of how good it is or the additional setup time/entry barrier/etc?

 

[Rhydstone]

Tiny brawler has frame 2 jab, frame 3 nair, down throw to I fair to hk kills from 40, and crazy air mobility. His only weakness is recovery and difficulty to kill. He should totally be banned.

 

[Illuminose]

Tiny Brawler is the one that grabs you 40 and does the easy dthrow -> fair -> helicopter kick kill. His mobility is also kinda absurd. Restricting at least Brawler to default size should be the bare minimum for Mii bans. Helicopter Kick ban isn't a bad step either because it's still pretty ridiculous on default Mii. This isn't petty, it's an actual balance concern.

Moreover, don't be surprised if people think Miis should be restricted to 1111. We're already not allowing Miis as intended/allowed by the game (by banning equipment), and we're well within our rights to prevent Miis from using their custom specials if we think that they are unbalanced or that Miis shouldn't get their customs if other characters aren't either. For every character in the game, 1111 is the default set of customs, and that holds true for Miis when you don't mess with their specials. Yes, I'm arguing that Miis have a default setting. I'm not going to dig into bs extra modes to say it -- I'm just stating it outright. Think of it like having the default guest Mii on the Wii U. You can customize Miis, but if you don't change any of the settings that's what you get. 1111 is sort of like the factory default, the moves on your Mii if you don't customize them. Just because they're allowed by the game to customize doesn't mean we have to let them. If you pick a Mii and create a Brawler, then save, 1111 Brawler is what you get. Regardless, these are unexplored characters that I sincerely doubt are really 'Hyrule tier' or whatever you want to call it. If you're not interested in playing non-customs Miis, that's your call. I'm sure there's people not interested in playing Kirby or Palutena without customs as well, but do you see concessions being made for them?

Here's how I see the positions on this issue. People who play Miis want customs, like any Palutena main or Kirby main. People who want customs will take whatever custom moves they can get allowed into the game. People who don't want customs see Miis and don't think they deserve access to customize their specials when other characters don't get that chance. It's actually not a very different issue than the customs issue at all because the same exact sides and positions are present. It's rather the same issue but masqueraded in a different light.

 

[WakerofWinds]

Tiny Brawler is the one that grabs you 40 and does the easy dthrow -> fair -> helicopter kick kill. His mobility is also kinda absurd. Restricting at least Brawler to default size should be the bare minimum for Mii bans. Helicopter Kick ban isn't a bad step either because it's still pretty ridiculous on default Mii. This isn't petty, it's an actual balance concern.

Moreover, don't be surprised if people think Miis should be restricted to 1111. We're already not allowing Miis as intended/allowed by the game (by banning equipment), and we're well within our rights to prevent Miis from using their custom specials if we think that they are unbalanced or that Miis shouldn't get their customs if other characters aren't either. For every character in the game, 1111 is the default set of customs, and that holds true for Miis when you don't mess with their specials. Yes, I'm arguing that Miis have a default setting. I'm not going to dig into bs extra modes to say it -- I'm just stating it outright. Think of it like having the default guest Mii on the Wii U. You can customize Miis, but if you don't change any of the settings that's what you get. 1111 is sort of like the factory default, the moves on your Mii if you don't customize them. Just because they're allowed by the game to customize doesn't mean we have to let them. If you pick a Mii and create a Brawler, then save, 1111 Brawler is what you get. Regardless, these are unexplored characters that I sincerely doubt are really 'Hyrule tier' or whatever you want to call it. If you're not interested in playing non-customs Miis, that's your call. I'm sure there's people not interested in playing Kirby or Palutena without customs as well, but do you see concessions being made for them?

Here's how I see the positions on this issue. People who play Miis want customs, like any Palutena main or Kirby main. People who want customs will take whatever custom moves they can get allowed into the game. People who don't want customs see Miis and don't think they deserve access to customize their specials when other characters don't get that chance. It's actually not a very different issue than the customs issue at all because the same exact sides and positions are present. It's rather the same issue but masqueraded in a different light.

A question before I start: Can you select any Miis without ever going to the customization screen? If not, I would argue that hey have no true default setting. You can't have the character without going to the customs screen and, well, customizing them, whether that makes them 1111 or otherwise.

Here's the thing, you don't have to go into any random game modes to figure it out: Miis are allowed all of their moves in a customs off environment; that's the nature of the character. It's not surprising at all that people exist who want them restricted to 1111; I don't think anyone is surprised, and for the exact reason you list in your final paragraph.

The last thing is that Tiny Brawler 1122/2122 really isn't overpowered or broken. He's nowhere near as good as Brawl MK, and even Brawl MK wasn't worthy of a ban. That said, I definitely think limiting Miis to default size, at least brawler, is probably for the best. Banning helicopter kick, on the other hand, I definitely disagree with for now. If that move ever becomes as oppressive as air fireball from ST Akuma, I'll change my mind, but I think the move is okay as it is.

 

[Illuminose]

You have to create the character, but if you don't change the specials they are 1111. Just because they are allowed to use changed specials doesn't mean that this isn't the default setting. We are free to judge custom Miis the same way as we do custom characters if we want to and simply disallow them.

 

[Dooms]

"We are free to judge custom Mii's the same way as we do custom characters if we want to and simply disallow them."

We are free to do x if we want to =/= legitimate reasoning to nerf three characters lmao. That's what the custom debate boiled down to. "Customs are just a preference thing, and the majority doesn't prefer custom moves." It's a literal garbage argument, but for some reason it worked.

Ban something when it's proven to be broken. Don't limit characters just because of select differences. It's not a complex argument honestly.

 

[2ndComing]

Mii by design are custom made characters. You choose the movesets, size, how it looks like, gender, etc. Also, if you read my posts above, I just used For Glory as an argument since another user in this forum, still forgot his name, uses random in game modes like event modes as a reason as to why Miis must use their '1111' sets. Also, if people complain about dealing with custom moves in For Glory then chances of Nintendo patching is much, much higher, just sayin'.

Yes they are custom made characters but they are made to be played with both customs and none customs. The reason why people would complain about customs online are because

1) You wouldn't know what you would be facing

2) Customs also make equipment possible online so that's funfair

3) Customs aren't as balanced so saying Nintendo patching would make anything better wouldn't help much considering not much needs to be changed anyway

4) and finally once again... Lag is a huge factor and fighting the first 2 points I made online in lag against someone you don't know using sets you will never figure out is the reason why customs are allowed in With Anyone Mode

 

[T0MMY]

Keep in mind if we are arguing in the Competitive Arena then we follow by Competitive Philosophy - make sure anyone you are arguing with adheres to logic and reason and once they cross that line they are in a casual area where anything goes; "house rules".

Competitively:
Any limitation on the any character (Mii fighters) must meet specified criteria. This includes limits on height/weight.
The game allows for Mii to be used with Custom Fighters OFF as well as ON - it doesn't matter if they must be created in the custom section of the game (they are actually in their own segregated Mii area apart from the Custom Fighters, btw).
And lastly the number one killer for any limitation on Mii is from a logistical standpoint and one I can attest to from personal experience: Limiting Mii Fighters require TO's to upload the mandated Mii to every setup - at EVERY local I've attended the Mii fighters were NOT fully uploaded and most setups had NONE whatsoever despite requiring I had to use a Mii on the setup... essentially I was DQ'd from tournament! Absolutely revolting*

*somehow despite being DQ'd and unable to play my character on multiple occasions I was still #7 and #2 ranked in my state on some (grossly inaccurate) power rankings, lol

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Tiny Brawler is the one that grabs you 40 and does the easy dthrow -> fair -> helicopter kick kill. His mobility is also kinda absurd. Restricting at least Brawler to default size should be the bare minimum for Mii bans. Helicopter Kick ban isn't a bad step either because it's still pretty ridiculous on default Mii. This isn't petty, it's an actual balance concern.

Moreover, don't be surprised if people think Miis should be restricted to 1111. We're already not allowing Miis as intended/allowed by the game (by banning equipment), and we're well within our rights to prevent Miis from using their custom specials if we think that they are unbalanced or that Miis shouldn't get their customs if other characters aren't either. For every character in the game, 1111 is the default set of customs, and that holds true for Miis when you don't mess with their specials. Yes, I'm arguing that Miis have a default setting. I'm not going to dig into bs extra modes to say it -- I'm just stating it outright. Think of it like having the default guest Mii on the Wii U. You can customize Miis, but if you don't change any of the settings that's what you get. 1111 is sort of like the factory default, the moves on your Mii if you don't customize them. Just because they're allowed by the game to customize doesn't mean we have to let them. If you pick a Mii and create a Brawler, then save, 1111 Brawler is what you get. Regardless, these are unexplored characters that I sincerely doubt are really 'Hyrule tier' or whatever you want to call it. If you're not interested in playing non-customs Miis, that's your call. I'm sure there's people not interested in playing Kirby or Palutena without customs as well, but do you see concessions being made for them?

Here's how I see the positions on this issue. People who play Miis want customs, like any Palutena main or Kirby main. People who want customs will take whatever custom moves they can get allowed into the game. People who don't want customs see Miis and don't think they deserve access to customize their specials when other characters don't get that chance. It's actually not a very different issue than the customs issue at all because the same exact sides and positions are present. It's rather the same issue but masqueraded in a different light.

Yeah, this pretty much brings up a lot of the points I wanted to (albeit more clearly).

I do need to point out/reiterate that the argument of "Miis are too bad without custom moves" is a terrible one that I've been seeing on here too often. One of my mains is WFT, a character many consider to be very low tier without customs. With customs, her standing improves greatly thanks to Jumbo Hoops and Weighted Header. By the logic of the aforementioned argument, I should be allowed to play WFT with customs on in a non-custom tournament because it makes her better.

Now this isn't to say all the arguments for Mii's having access to customs are bad. Being able to use custom moves because they can even with customs off in the setting? Fine, perfectly legitimate stance to take. I disagree with it, and would argue that even if it is by design such customizability is an unwarranted handicap, but if that's what you want to stick with more power too you. And like I said earlier, in custom tournaments, go for it! Modify to your hearts content! But if we're talking about a tournament that does not allow customs, Miis being able to be customized just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Dooms]

Now this isn't to say all the arguments for Mii's having access to customs are bad. Being able to use custom moves because they can even with customs off in the setting? Fine, perfectly legitimate stance to take. I disagree with it, and would argue that even if it is by design such customizability is an unwarranted handicap, but if that's what you want to stick with more power too you. And like I said earlier, in custom tournaments, go for it! Modify to your hearts content! But if we're talking about a tournament that does not allow customs, Miis being able to be customized just doesn't make sense to me.

The problem here is that Mii's are always customized characters. 1111 Mii Fighter is just as customized as 1112 or 3213 Mii Fighters because you're still required to create the character.

If you're going to force a character into a default they don't have, then you might as well ban them, because you're pretty much doing it anyways.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

The problem here is that Mii's are always customized characters. 1111 Mii Fighter is just as customized as 1112 or 3213 Mii Fighters because you're still required to create the character.

If you're going to force a character into a default they don't have, then you might as well ban them, because you're pretty much doing it anyways.

Alright, allow me to reword that if we're going to pick at minutia. All other characters are required to use the 1111 set for tournaments without customs. I believe this should hold true for ALL characters, including Miis.

 

[Doruge]

Alright, allow me to reword that if we're going to pick at minutia. All other characters are required to use the 1111 set for tournaments without customs. I believe this should hold true for ALL characters, including Miis.

All other characters are required to use 1111 because the game itself forces them into 1111 when customs are off. Same is not true for miis, so the same does not apply to them.

 

[Illuminose]

All other characters are required to use 1111 because the game itself forces them into 1111 when customs are off. Same is not true for miis, so the same does not apply to them.

The same does apply unless you think Miis should be given a special advantage as characters (to use their custom moves). What the game technically allows does not matter. Other characters can't use their custom moves, so Miis shouldn't be able to either. 1111 is the move default when you don't change their specials -- stop ignoring this point because it makes it very clear that Miis have a default set of specials. You can customize them and use them, but it is no longer the default Mii when that is done.

 

[Dooms]

Alright, allow me to reword that if we're going to pick at minutia. All other characters are required to use the 1111 set for tournaments without customs. I believe this should hold true for ALL characters, including Miis.

They're not forced into "1111". They're forced into their default that they have access to with customs turned off on the menu. For most characters, this is 1111. Mii Fighters, however, don't have this limitation because their default is that they don't exist (you have to create one for them to exist in the first place). Forcing a false default onto them just because everyone else has it is a poor argument to make considering that there is no reason to limit the characters to that extreme.

The same does apply unless you think Miis should be given a special advantage as characters (to use their custom moves). What the game technically allows does not matter. Other characters can't use their custom moves, so Miis shouldn't be able to either.

Sheik has a special advantage by having access to default Needles, Bouncing Fish, and Vanish, but because it's the game's default setting, we allow it instead of balancing the game by forcing her into a worse selection. The game's default is that Mii's don't exist or they don't have equipment (literally nothing in between there) so why are we trying to edit that?

When every character that is not a Mii Fighter appears on the select screen, they have a default moveset (which most people believe they are balanced around). Mii Fighters don't have this. They're simply not there. Instead, they are added to the select screen when you create one from all of the potential move options. If Mii Fighter's specials were "customs", then they wouldn't be accessible in the custom off menu. Mii Fighters are also being balanced through these special move options (Swordfighter getting a buff through his Link Recovery) similar to how Lucina received her Up-b buff last patch.

 

[Rhydstone]

The same does apply unless you think Miis should be given a special advantage as characters (to use their custom moves). What the game technically allows does not matter. Other characters can't use their custom moves, so Miis shouldn't be able to either.

The way I see it, alternate specials for mii's are not custom moves. When creating a mii you choose any single move you want, meaning is not 1111. Just because all the characters have that as default doesn't mean mii's should too. Because having a mii as a main and restricting the preferred custom moves is not fair. But the same can be said to any single other character with custom moves. But mii's can use the moves even with customs off.

The argument can be made that it doesn't matter what the game says, but if it doesn't matter then wh y do we use for glory as a basis for 1v1 matches? Also the only reason miis aren't in for Glory is so online there isn't any inappropriate miis. Restricting a miis custom moves is the same as restricting anyone who mains the character with those moves. But once again the same can be said for palutena, Kirby etc. But in my opinion, mii's are meant to be customized, unlike regular characters, so we should leave them with custom moves.

 

[LimitCrown]

They're not forced into "1111". They're forced into their default that they have access to with customs turned off on the menu. For most characters, this is 1111. Mii Fighters, however, don't have this limitation because their default is that they don't exist (you have to create one for them to exist in the first place). Forcing a false default onto them just because everyone else has it is a poor argument to make considering that there is no reason to limit the characters to that extreme.

A default moveset exists essentially because it's the one that all of the different types of Miii Fighters start with and you need to change their moveset from that if you want to use their other special moves. This moveset is unsurprisingly their 1111 moveset. It clearly fits the definition of a default moveset because it is preselected at the beginning like every other character when you try to create a custom moveset for them.

 

[Doruge]

The same does apply unless you think Miis should be given a special advantage as characters (to use their custom moves). What the game technically allows does not matter. Other characters can't use their custom moves, so Miis shouldn't be able to either. 1111 is the move default when you don't change their specials -- stop ignoring this point because it makes it very clear that Miis have a default set of specials. You can customize them and use them, but it is no longer the default Mii when that is done.

It doesn't matter if they have a "default" moveset. The rule is not "default only", it's "customs off" which doesn't affect Miis.

 

[Dooms]

A default moveset exists essentially because it's the one that all of the different types of Miii Fighters start with and you need to change their moveset from that if you want to use their other special moves. This moveset is unsurprisingly their 1111 moveset. It clearly fits the definition of a default moveset because it is preselected at the beginning like every other character when you try to create a custom moveset for them.

This is an understandable statement if you're wanting to go as far as to say "This is a special rule specifically to limit Mii Fighters". This doesn't compare to the rest of the cast. This is a special limitation put onto Mii Fighters that normally (within the "Customs Off" rules) would have access to the moves they're being balanced around.

The point is that you can create a default for Mii Fighters, but you're specifically limiting characters that have no reason to be limited just to follow a standard that has literally no reason to be there. There's no reason to go past "customs off" aside from specifically limiting Mii Fighters.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

All other characters are required to use 1111 because the game itself forces them into 1111 when customs are off. Same is not true for miis, so the same does not apply to them.

Somehow I doubt that the game forcing them to be used without customs in one of the settings is how anyone decided they didn't want customs, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Honestly where the current state of things is that Miis are disallowed entirely, I find the idea of allowing their inclusion on the terms that they just follow the same rules as every other character a much more reasonable idea.

As a side note, I suppose I should explain a bit more on why I disagree on the "but it's allowed" argument. I mean, really think about it. Items are allowed by game defaults. Coin matches are allowed within the game. There are many more stages allowed than what tournaments use. As far as I can see, the community has always been fine with limiting what the game "allows" if they considered it to give an unfair advantage (or if it made victories less dependent on player skill, but that's less relevant in this circumstance).

Also, on the argument of the Miis having no default settings... eh, yes and no. When you create a Mii (In SSB4, not creating the Mii in general) you are taken to the character customization screen. While this screen does allow you to choose any of the customs immediately, you are not required to alter anything to complete the Mii. Should you choose not to go into these customization menus at all, they are all left on 1. So... eh, like I said, yes and no, I could see it arguing either way. After all, every character can get to a customization menu before you use them for the first time, doesn't mean that you can pick whichever ones you want to be their customs-off set.

 

[Doruge]

Comparing miis to Coin Mode makes your argument look pretty weak, fyi. I'm aware of the fact that we can and do go against what the game says, but there's always a reason for it. There is no legitimate reason to go against the game in this case.

 

[Dooms]

Somehow I doubt that the game forcing them to be used without customs in one of the settings is how anyone decided they didn't want customs, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Honestly where the current state of things is that Miis are disallowed entirely, I find the idea of allowing their inclusion on the terms that they just follow the same rules as every other character a much more reasonable idea.

As a side note, I suppose I should explain a bit more on why I disagree on the "but it's allowed" argument. I mean, really think about it. Items are allowed by game defaults. Coin matches are allowed within the game. There are many more stages allowed than what tournaments use. As far as I can see, the community has always been fine with limiting what the game "allows" if they considered it to give an unfair advantage (or if it made victories less dependent on player skill, but that's less relevant in this circumstance).

Also, on the argument of the Miis having no default settings... eh, yes and no. When you create a Mii (In SSB4, not creating the Mii in general) you are taken to the character customization screen. While this screen does allow you to choose any of the customs immediately, you are not require to alter anything to complete the Mii. Should you choose not to go into these customization menus at all, they are all left on 1. So... eh, like I said, yes and no, I could see it arguing either way. After all, every character can get to a customization menu before you use them for the first time, doesn't mean that you can pick whichever ones you want to be their customs-off set.

If you choose to skip the character customization screen, it wouldn't exist because you wouldn't be able to create it. It's a required part of creating your Mii Fighter.

You specifically have to go into the custom menu to create custom sets. However, to play as a Mii Fighter, this menu is unavoidable.

Trying to side-step around the fact that Mii Fighters aren't forced into 1111 in custom-off just to force a standard on them shouldn't be a norm. :|

Edit: We don't allow all stages because they're poorly designed or add a luck factor. There are very few stages that we've banned in smash history specifically because they give x character an unfair advantage (the only examples that come to mind being stages that gave Metaknight, a character that people were debating banning out-right, an advantage). Coin Mode and Time created unhealthy metagames.

Neither of those things relate to Mii's in the slightest. Connecting them is simply avoiding the fact that you're limiting three characters just to put them on a standard they shouldn't have.

 

[Illuminose]

Comparing miis to Coin Mode makes your argument look pretty weak, fyi. I'm aware of the fact that we can and do go against what the game says, but there's always a reason for it. There is no legitimate reason to go against the game in this case.

The legitimate reason is standardizing Miis to be like any other character: one moveset, one set of stats, one matchup to learn. 1111 is the best option for this because it is the closest that the game provides us to an enforceable default. This as opposed to simply banning Miis as a whole.

 

[Dooms]

The legitimate reason is standardizing Miis to be like any other character: one moveset, one set of stats, one matchup to learn. 1111 is the best option for this because it is the closest that the game provides us to an enforceable default. This as opposed to simply banning Miis as a whole.

If you're going to go out of your way to limit three characters to force them into a standard they don't have + nerf them while doing it, you might as well ban them honestly. Creating an in between for sub-par reasoning is just giving Mii Fighters the finger.

 

[Illuminose]

It's not really an in-between. It's enforcing a standard that exists across the entire cast and extending it to Miis. It's looking at Miis, deeming them not to be any more special than other characters, and banning their custom special moves in 'customs off' just like every other character. The fact that you can use the moves when customs are turned off is irrelevant when looked at from this point of view. The fact that the characters are nerfed is also completely irrelevant.

 

[Dooms]

It's not really an in-between. It's enforcing a standard that exists across the entire cast and extending it to Miis. It's looking at Miis, deeming them not to be any more special than other characters, and banning their custom special moves in 'customs off' just like every other character. The fact that you can use the moves when customs are turned off is irrelevant when looked at from this point of view. The fact that the characters are nerfed is also completely irrelevant.

If you're calling them custom moves, you lose credibility in the argument from the get-go.

They don't have custom special moves. "Custom" special moves are not allowed in customs off. It's a simple concept, really.

They have alternate specials, but those aren't "Customs". Those are moves that can be selected when you create the character. Not when you create a custom set. It's when you create a Mii Fighter. Those moves are part of the default Mii Fighter, which is why they're allowed in custom off.

Trying to side-step around the issue by saying "We're just making them equal to other characters" when they're not other characters (and would still be equal to other characters in terms of viability [you know... where it matters]) is silly. You're arguing to make specific rules that limit a character. You need a better argument than what you're giving to do that in any decent fighting game community.

Edit: If this was as simple as you're making it out to be, multiple European countries and Japan wouldn't be allowing Mii Fighters to use all of their specials. They force them to medium/medium (default size) because the Wii U comes with standard Mii's. However, they don't force them to 1111 because the Mii Fighter doesn't have a default moveset. It's not a very complex idea, and doing anything to limit Mii Fighters further is simply limiting and nerfing them. Not making them equal (they're already equal as-is), it's just nerfing.

 

[Rhydstone]

Also, another reason why the mii special moves are alternates: they've been already unlock. The only reason palutena already has hers is to demonstrate the concept of customs in the first place.

 

[Rashyboy05]

Can you bring that post up for me? I'd really like to reasoning behind it if you don't mind. If you can't that is perfectly fine by me. However, can you explain why random in game modes have to do with 1111 being allowed in a competitive environment, customs off? I find that an interesting counter arugment.

All my posts in this thread are literally about For Glory. I'm not making the random in game modes as an argument for '1111' miis but it's been mentioned a lot in this thread. http://smashboards.com/threads/should-custom-miis-be-seprated-from-fighter-customs.408372/

Yes they are custom made characters but they are made to be played with both customs and none customs. The reason why people would complain about customs online are because

1) You wouldn't know what you would be facing

2) Customs also make equipment possible online so that's funfair

3) Customs aren't as balanced so saying Nintendo patching would make anything better wouldn't help much considering not much needs to be changed anyway

4) and finally once again... Lag is a huge factor and fighting the first 2 points I made online in lag against someone you don't know using sets you will never figure out is the reason why customs are allowed in With Anyone Mode

1. And this is relevant because..? If you're facing a person who likes using the "broken" custom. I'm very sure ,especially considering the nature of most For Glory players, you will be seeing the players spamming the custom a lot. Especially if it's on a character like a DK who relies way too much on custom Up-B to do something.
2. If you use Mii with Equipment in Customs off mode the Miis can't use the equipment. Sakurai could've easily implement this as well in For Glory mode. You can use custom characters but the equipment will be disabled.
3. I remember Sakurai saying in an interview that if there is a custom that causes too much problems, he will patch it. You can change the damage/knockback/whatever broken **** of whatever broken custom.
4. Considering the two points I've countered. Lag will just be a minor inconvenience. Sure, it messes up with your timing and all but really, overall the expected experience of custom For Glory will just be nearly as the same as default For Glory. But what do I know? Customs For Glory isn't even a thing.

 

[Doruge]

The legitimate reason is standardizing Miis to be like any other character: one moveset, one set of stats, one matchup to learn. 1111 is the best option for this because it is the closest that the game provides us to an enforceable default. This as opposed to simply banning Miis as a whole.

There's no reason to standardize mii moves. You can't ban things just because you don't want to learn more match-ups. And creating a mii with alternate moves takes less than a minute, so logistics isn't even an issue.

 

[Rhydstone]

The legitimate reason is standardizing Miis to be like any other character: one moveset, one set of stats, one matchup to learn. 1111 is the best option for this because it is the closest that the game provides us to an enforceable default. This as opposed to simply banning Miis as a whole.

Banning alternate customs because you don't want to learn the matchups is like saying you want to ban DLC characters because you don't want to learn the matchups.

 

[Pazx]

@ Illuminose you've said the fact that Miis being restricted to 1111 is nerfing them is irrelevant, but you've also made it pretty clear that you're concerned about how good Mii Brawler in particular is. Conflict of interests?

 

[WakerofWinds]

It's not really an in-between. It's enforcing a standard that exists across the entire cast and extending it to Miis. It's looking at Miis, deeming them not to be any more special than other characters, and banning their custom special moves in 'customs off' just like every other character. The fact that you can use the moves when customs are turned off is irrelevant when looked at from this point of view. The fact that the characters are nerfed is also completely irrelevant.

This statement is exactly the problem. You're EXTENDING the rule to Miis, when those rules don't apply to them.

As has been said before, the default for Miis is non-existence. If you're insistent that Miis should use their default settings, you ought to take it to its logical conclusion and ban them. Miis do not exist without such customization; they're created by accessing the customs menu. That's it.

 

[LimitCrown]

@ Illuminose you've said the fact that Miis being restricted to 1111 is nerfing them is irrelevant, but you've also made it pretty clear that you're concerned about how good Mii Brawler in particular is. Conflict of interests?

It's irrelevant because the point is that the Miis shouldn't be able to use their custom moves when none of the other characters can. Besides, Palutena can't use hers in tournaments that don't allow custom moves.

 

[Dooms]

It's irrelevant because the point is that the Miis shouldn't be able to use their custom moves when none of the other characters can. Besides, Palutena can't use hers in tournaments that don't allow custom moves.

"custom moves"

you're missing the point.

 

[thehard]

All custom moves are already arbitrarily banned in many tournaments. So why can't we have these not-actually-custom-moves allowed on the basis of an actual argument?

#freeMii

 

[LimitCrown]

"custom moves"

you're missing the point.

What point am I missing? There aren't any differences between how Palutena and the Mii Fighters' custom moves were created. Each of them have their own animations and very different effects. In any case, the claim that they don't actually have custom moves or that they don't actually have defaults is absurd and seems to be an equivocation fallacy. Whether the Mii Fighters can use their custom moves when customization is turned off doesn't mean that tournaments should allow it, and it doesn't mean that they don't have defaults.

 

[Dooms]

What point am I missing? There aren't any differences between how Palutena and the Mii Fighters' custom moves were created. Each of them have their own animations and very different effects. In any case, the claim that they don't actually have custom moves or that they don't actually have defaults is absurd and seems to be an equivocation fallacy. Whether the Mii Fighters can use their custom moves when customization is turned off doesn't mean that tournaments should allow it, and it doesn't mean that they don't have defaults.

If they're allowed in custom off, they're not classified as custom moves. Custom moves aren't allowed in custom off.

They're special moves, just like the other moves that other characters have access to in custom off. They don't have defaults. If they had defaults, they would be forced into that and not be allowed to use any of them when you create the character to put them on the CSS.

Trying to side-step around the idea that you're forcing them into a default for no reason is silly.

 

[LimitCrown]

If they're allowed in custom off, they're not classified as custom moves. Custom moves aren't allowed in custom off.

They're special moves, just like the other moves that other characters have access to in custom off. They don't have defaults. If they had defaults, they would be forced into that and not be allowed to use any of them when you create the character to put them on the CSS.

Trying to side-step around the idea that you're forcing them into a default for no reason is silly.

Each of the different types of Mii Fighters have 12 special moves to choose from and there are three for each type of special move like every other character. Also, just like every other character, they have a specific moveset that is preselected each time that you try to make a custom moveset for them, which means that they have defaults. Claiming that they don't have custom moves is strange when you can change which special moves they have like the others. Claiming that they don't have defaults is just as strange because every type of Mii Fighter starts with the same moveset. Therefore, you're trying to make exceptions for the Mii Fighters by modifying the definition of the words and it's also an equivocation fallacy.