No tripping with Action Replay

[Makai]

I'm sure some of you have seen the Brawl Central moveswap videos. Now, as far as I know these were done with a cheating device, not by altering the ISO or some other method. If it is done with Action Replay or a similar tool, it may be possible to turn off tripping. If random tripping could be turned off, would larger tournaments adopt trip-less brawl as standard?

 

[red stone]

nah, too much trouble to go through

 

[Andydark]

And there isn't an action replay for Wii...

We can assume that they did simple file swaps.

 

[M3tr01D]

I doubt it. Just because people don't like the feature/think it is a waste of time doesn't mean they are going to go buy a cheat device just to turn it off.

 

[Makai]

I doubt it. Just because people don't like the feature/think it is a waste of time doesn't mean they are going to go buy a cheat device just to turn it off.

They will if there's 10,000 dollars on the line.

 

[Angrylobster]

As stupid of an idea tripping is, no outside device such as an action replay should be used to turn tripping off

 

[What's The Point]

They will if there's 10,000 dollars on the line.

If it's 10,000 dollars, the event is most likely sponsored. No sponsored event would allow a cheating device to be used.

 

[6footninja]

nah, too much trouble to go through

yeah really, id end up frustrated

 

[blayde_axel]

And there isn't an action replay for Wii...

We can assume that they did simple file swaps.

I'm pretty sure there's a thread floating around that shows an Action Replay for Wii. Can't search for it cause the engine sucks.

 

[_NeXuS_]

Nintendo will nuke any cheat devices that come along with firmware upgrades.

 

[Makai]

I'm talking about like the final 32 finalists in a tournament, not just normal play. Pools could even be random trip brawls.

 

[HyperTheHedgehog]

Nintendo will nuke any cheat devices that come along with firmware upgrades.

This.

The moveset swap vids involved actually messing with the game.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

TC, could I have a link to those videos?

 

[AznHalfCaucasian]

Just play the play as it is.

 

[Makai]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8ZDgjjDnWLM&feature=related

 

[Xsyven]

Get used to it. You probably haven't even played it yet. Everything will become second nature over time.

 

[Makai]

Get used to it. You probably haven't even played it yet. Everything will become second nature over time.

Random tripping is going to become second nature? LOL.

 

[Kagutsuchi]

If high stakes matches in large tournaments were getting screwed over by tripping into charged Fsmashes and we (the smash community) cannot find a way around it, I would support this idea. As it stands, tripping is added randomness in a ruleset that strives for as little randomness as possible to allow the best player to win consistently. Unless depth is somehow added by keeping tripping (future advanced techniques or one to prevent it's negative effects? Probably just wishful thinking), why the hell keep it in.

If tripping could be turned off through AR, only one disc would be needed for an entire tournament, so it's not like everyone would have to go out and buy it. Still a hassle, sure, but if tripping becomes THAT much of a problem, go through with it.

... But really, it would eliminate tripping johns. Which I can see myself doing a lot in the future having played the game a little.

 

[M3tr01D]

If it's 10,000 dollars, the event is most likely sponsored. No sponsored event would allow a cheating device to be used.

Yeah, I agree with this. There is a difference between doing things like changing stock amount, adding a timelimt and banning unfair techniques (things such as laser lock) and actually using a cheating device to modify how the game work.

 

[Makai]

Yeah, I agree with this. There is a difference between doing things like changing stock amount, adding a timelimt and banning unfair techniques (things such as laser lock) and actually using a cheating device to modify how the game work.

I don't understand your mindset. Are you saying you shouldn't modify the game because it wasn't an option intentionally put in the game by the god of Smash Himself, and therefore isn't considered a "canonical" way to play? I'm sure the true competitive scene would unanimously agree to disable random tripping if there were such an option. Should we not still disable if the option wasn't granted directly by the smash developers? If anything so uncontrollable can upset a match so greatly, it should be removed if possible, and we may have the capability to.

 

[Demi]

1. Tripping doesn't come up alot
2. Tripping has actually helped me more that it has screwed me over.
3. It does come second nature like Xsyven had said. You trip, you tech out of it right away.
4. I lol at people's join date showing that they joined SWF because they heard it was the place to talk about brawl.

That's all I can think of right now.

 

[Kagutsuchi]

1. Tripping doesn't come up alot
2. Tripping has actually helped me more that it has screwed me over.
3. It does come second nature like Xsyven had said. You trip, you tech out of it right away.
4. I lol at people's join date showing that they joined SWF because they heard it was the place to talk about brawl.

That's all I can think of right now.

1. A few times a match is quite often... Maybe I just trip a lot.
2. You're a lucky *******.
3. Looking out for a random event every time you dash just so you don't get punished is horribly stupid. If I have to explain WHY, someone's getting their head busted in. If you REALLY need explanation on this, reread my post, specifically the part where I talk about how randomness sucks in a tournament environment.
4. Join date is far from an absolute indicator of how educated they are in competitive Smash, and your account is only half a year older than his.

 

[Chaos_Dude]

If we disable random tripping, it gives us the right to disable other stuff. People start complaining about what is and isn't fair and we AR the game so much until it becomes something it isn't. Then different regions disable different moves or techniques at their own discretion so moves that worked in one battle may not be the same in another. It's a slippery slope. Don't mess with the tripping, just learn to adapt.

 

[Makai]

If we disable random tripping, it gives us the right to disable other stuff. People start complaining about what is and isn't fair and we AR the game so much until it becomes something it isn't. Then different regions disable different moves or techniques at their own discretion so moves that worked in one battle may not be the same in another. It's a slippery slope. Don't mess with the tripping, just learn to adapt.

Uh...we disable stages don't we? No tripping is an easy thing to standardize, believe it or not.

 

[Demi]

1. A few times a match is quite often... Maybe I just trip a lot.
2. You're a lucky *******.
3. Looking out for a random event every time you dash just so you don't get punished is horribly stupid. If I have to explain WHY, someone's getting their head busted in. If you REALLY need explanation on this, reread my post, specifically the part where I talk about how randomness sucks in a tournament environment.
4. Join date is far from an absolute indicator of how educated they are in competitive Smash, and your account is only half a year older than his.

3. It's called second nature for a reason you don't have to look out for it. You trip, you tech. Easy as that.

4. At least I didn't join close the first said release date lol. And I've lurked these forums for about a half a year before joining.

 

[Mario Moonshine]

I love tripping in all forms. Shrooms, acid, DXM, salvia....nutmeg!

Oh, not that kind of tripping? I agree that tripping is a random factor that takes away from the competitiveness of the game and Sakurai just wanted it in there to make it more casual. Like MARIO PARTY! We don't want smash to turn into Mario Party, so tripping should be taken out, just like random items.

And Demi, I don't think you should oh-so-subtly talk SH**, your join date is only 6 months earlier than Makai's.

 

[Makai]

That's sort of like the button events in RE4, only uber ********. Those have absolutely no place in a multiplayer fighting game.

"Thanks to this randomly generated gimp, push L to not die."

Most people won't be able to react to this kind of thing, believe it or not. The reaction time for that would have to be RATHER high.

 

[Kevin]

Just FYI, it was iso editing and not an outside cheat device.

 

[startoonhero]

it is a file swap. theyre editing the smash bros iso to do this. there was a new tool released that allows u to switch files around and edit the iso.

 

[Demi]

And Demi, I don't think you should oh-so-subtly talk SH**, your join date is only 6 months earlier than Makai's.

I said I lol at people who join dates are close to brawl's first said release date etc. and I'm talking sh** all of a sudden? At least I can be seen as joining the site for competitive melee smashing and not because brawl is about to come out and SWF is have a huge brawl discussion.

 

[Makai]

Action Replay is being released for Wii, regardless. I saw pictures of the packaging, although it could be fake, but whatever.

They could even change the ISO so random tripping was removed. Seriously.

 

[Kagutsuchi]

3. It's called second nature for a reason you don't have to look out for it. You trip, you tech. Easy as that.

4. At least I didn't join close the first said release date lol. And I've lurked these forums for about a half a year before joining.

3. Ok, that's still potentially screwing up combos and opportunities for punishing mistakes. And agreeing with Makai, the reaction time required for getting out of it unpunished when you just so happen to trip towards your waiting opponent would be rather high. Not to mention your reaction time is much slower when something happens that you arn't specifically waiting for to happen, such as a somewhat rare random event.
4. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[brawlmaniac]

I don't think you are able to change the tripping factor.

 

[TheRooster]

I'd just like to add that you guys talk about turning off tripping as if there were some kind of on/off switch.

Sure, it can be done, but at the risk of screwing up something else. Maybe other things are dependant on tripping. The way I see it tripping can be dependant on damage as well as any number of any other random variables, all stashed away in the code for brawl.

If we are going that far to mod the game, might as well go in and mod everyones stats so they are all in one big tier.
...or even (dare I say?) mod the final smashes so that they are evenly matched and not as powerful.

Hell, we could mod smashballs so they appear in one spot every 2 minutes and stay there.

NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!

Haha, just kidding you guys. Seriously though, I think thats going a little far. I think we all just have to accept that this game wasn't meant to be used in $10k tourneys. As with most games, there is a luck factor- and outside of losing the 10k purse to a well aimed pokeball (I'm sure this is a pain we all share at one time), randomness is fun.

 

[M3tr01D]

Oh, not that kind of tripping? I agree that tripping is a random factor that takes away from the competitiveness of the game and Sakurai just wanted it in there to make it more casual. Like MARIO PARTY! We don't want smash to turn into Mario Party, so tripping should be taken out, just like random items.

Based on the other changes Sakurai has made to brawl, tripping wasn't added to make the game "more casual," it was added to nerf a specific technique that he felt was overused/unbalanced/not cool in melee, which was dash dancing. If you try to dance dash like players did in melee, you will be tripping a lot. As it is tripping kind of encourages more aireal gameplay, because you can't trip while in the air.

Also Makai, I don't know if you've played brawl or not, but teching out of a trip isn't exactly difficult the rare times they do occur. If you don't have the reaction time to respond to it, maybe you should go play something more simple.

 

[Makai]

Based on the other changes Sakurai has made to brawl, tripping wasn't added to make the game "more casual," it was added to nerf a specific technique that he felt was overused/unbalanced/not cool in melee, which was dash dancing. If you try to dance dash like players did in melee, you will be tripping a lot.

Intentional removal of Advanced Techniques = more casual

As it is tripping kind of encourages more aireal gameplay, because you can't trip while in the air.

Tell that to Yuna's thread about air tripping and the video that accompanies it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qH8nXjorFK8

 

[Demi]

3. Ok, that's still potentially screwing up combos and opportunities for punishing mistakes. And agreeing with Makai, the reaction time required for getting out of it unpunished when you just so happen to trip towards your waiting opponent would be rather high. Not to mention your reaction time is much slower when something happens that you arn't specifically waiting for to happen, such as a somewhat rare random event.
4. Thanks for proving my point.

3. I'm pretty sure there are enough invincibility frames in the trip to tech before getting punished for it. >.>

4. If your point was that I joined for Competitive Melee, then yes I did prove your point.

 

[Kagutsuchi]

3. I'm pretty sure there are enough invincibility frames in the trip to tech before getting punished for it. >.>

4. If your point was that I joined for Competitive Melee, then yes I did prove your point.

3. .... Fine, but that doesn't clear up the other 2 things that make me HAAAATE tripping.
4. No. -.- You mentioned in your post that you lurked the forums for a long time before joining, what's to say he didn't?

Based on the other changes Sakurai has made to brawl, tripping wasn't added to make the game "more casual," it was added to nerf a specific technique that he felt was overused/unbalanced/not cool in melee, which was dash dancing. If you try to dance dash like players did in melee, you will be tripping a lot. As it is tripping kind of encourages more aireal gameplay, because you can't trip while in the air.

Also Makai, I don't know if you've played brawl or not, but teching out of a trip isn't exactly difficult the rare times they do occur. If you don't have the reaction time to respond to it, maybe you should go play something more simple.

There's other things they did to nerf DDing to hell. You can only change your dash direction in like the VERY START of your dash, the window isn't nearly as big as it was in Melee for people like CF and Marth. Adding tripping as a solution to DDing is a horrible idea, he could've just made it impossible to dash the other way in your initial dash animation.

I'd just like to add that you guys talk about turning off tripping as if there were some kind of on/off switch.

Sure, it can be done, but at the risk of screwing up something else. Maybe other things are dependant on tripping. The way I see it tripping can be dependant on damage as well as any number of any other random variables, all stashed away in the code for brawl.

If we are going that far to mod the game, might as well go in and mod everyones stats so they are all in one big tier.
...or even (dare I say?) mod the final smashes so that they are evenly matched and not as powerful.

Hell, we could mod smashballs so they appear in one spot every 2 minutes and stay there.

NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!

Haha, just kidding you guys. Seriously though, I think thats going a little far. I think we all just have to accept that this game wasn't meant to be used in $10k tourneys. As with most games, there is a luck factor- and outside of losing the 10k purse to a well aimed pokeball (I'm sure this is a pain we all share at one time), randomness is fun.

Hahah... Nice rant into the hypothetical... Regarding the first part of your post, this thread is a gigantic IF and more research needs to be done on it, such as if tripping can be removed through AR and if it's a set percentage or if it's affected by many variables.

And regarding the last part, the point of taking out tripping is to make it a more tournament viable game...

 

[Demi]

3. .... Fine, but that doesn't clear up the other 2 things that make me HAAAATE tripping.
4. No. -.- You mentioned in your post that you lurked the forums for a long time before joining, what's to say he didn't?

3. I haven't encountered a time where it messed up a combo, but it has made miss an opportunity to capitalize on somebody's mistake.

4. Alright, I stop arguing about this. It's understandable that a join date doesn't say everything about a person.

 

[=ArtH=]

They will if there's 10,000 dollars on the line.

LOL OMG