No Crying Until the End: Ninten for Smash Ultimate!

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

So yeah, I think it's safe to say that Ninten will be a Lucas echo after all. Change the stick to a bat, the snake to rope, and PK Starstorm to PK Beam. The only thing I'm unsure of is how he would be designed. A fusion between his clay model and the Famicom commercial appearance?

I still think the Eight Melodies being sung as a FS would be cool to have since it's a big part of the story and is used in a pretty memorable moment of the series. It only damages Giegue but Luigi's FS should only be able to suck up ghosts.

As for the design, I really hope Sakurai opts for the shirt and bandana of the commercial design since they would distinguish him more from Ness. It's the kind of obscure fanservice he would include even if it's not canon. The clay model would be still incorporated in everything else.

 

[Enchess]

I still think the Eight Melodies being sung as a FS would be cool to have since it's a big part of the story and is used in a pretty memorable moment of the series. It only damages Giegue but Luigi's FS should only be able to suck up ghosts.

As for the design, I really hope Sakurai opts for the shirt and bandana of the commercial design since they would distinguish him more from Ness. It's the kind of obscure fanservice he would include even if it's not canon. The clay model would be still incorporated in everything else.

I'm a bit dreading the backlash from non-supporters if they don't do things like this to distinguish him. I don't want another Lucina situation where people act like she stole a spot despite probably taking only 1 person a day or two to implement her. Although I admittedly love the 'Martha' joke.

 

[Gallowglass]

I think one way they could make him stand out is make him use the bat all the time. Of course his smash attacks can use other items like slingshot, boomerangs, and bottle rockets. I think if we can have Pit and Dark Pit as separate characters then have Ninten and Ness look similar shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Pacack]

I support, albeit as a Ness echo.

Just change PSI Magnet to PSI Shield as a reflector and remove all Ness' PK Rockin' effects from his aerials, and you can make Ninten a more physical version of Ness.

Maybe his side b could be changed to Hypnosis, too? Then, Neutral B could easily be changed to be PK Beam by making it yellow. Maybe give him a different up b if they want to remove all offensive PSI techniques except Beam?

 

[SEGAGameBoy]

Never played it before. I support!

 

[MattX20]

I support, albeit as a Ness echo.

Just change PSI Magnet to PSI Shield as a reflector and remove all Ness' PK Rockin' effects from his aerials, and you can make Ninten a more physical version of Ness.

Maybe his side b could be changed to Hypnosis, too? Then, Neutral B could easily be changed to be PK Beam by making it yellow. Maybe give him a different up b if they want to remove all offensive PSI techniques except Beam?

There's just one problem with the whole Ness echo fighter concept for Ninten: the anachronistic yoyo. Yoyos weren't in the original Mother. Lucas doesn't have that problem, and the snake can be changed into rope; an item that is in the original game.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

There's just one problem with the whole Ness echo fighter concept for Ninten: the anachronistic yoyo. Yoyos weren't in the original Mother. Lucas doesn't have that problem, and the snake can be changed into rope; an item that is in the original game.

The stick would have to become a bat as well, but to compensate, it would act with the same speed as Lucas' stick while only being marginally stronger (essentially a weaker yet faster version of Ness').

 

[Gallowglass]

In other notes I want one of Ninten's taunts be him using his inhaler. He is the only video game character I know that is asthmatic.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

In other notes I want one of Ninten's taunts be him using his inhaler. He is the only video game character I know that is asthmatic.

It'd be really cool if fire/smoke attacks dealt more damage to him as a nice little detail too. Maybe that smoke ball item would actually be more than just a nuisance for once.

 

[Gallowglass]

It'd be really cool if fire/smoke attacks dealt more damage to him as a nice little detail too. Maybe that smoke ball item would actually be more than just a nuisance for once.

Though I like the detail I don't think it would be fair to Ninten to put in that feature. Its not like Ivysaur takes more damage from fire or Charizard from water.

 

[Witdamon]

If Ninten got in, I'd honestly hope he would be a mix of both Ness and Lucas. I know it wouldn't happen like that and he'd just be an echo of one of them, but I can dream.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

I support, but I doubt they'll make him a new original character. Semi-clone seems more likely.

 

[Takasmash]

Fanboys says that Ninten should be a alt for Ness or Ninten looks allot like Ness we dont need a another Ness. Have anyone here people say that about Ninten as a possible fighter argument. What about Pit and Dark Pit they are the same character with different personality's who came up with that rule?

 

[Julesimanerd]

As long as he can have asthma attacks I’m in.

 

[Mr Gentleman]

I'd be up for Ninten getting in. lets have all the protagonists in!

 

[Takasmash]

It feels weird that Ness in smash bros first but not Ninten. Ninten was first why Sakurai will chose Ness over Ninten at the 64 timeline I'm curios why?

 

[GoodGrief741]

It feels weird that Ness in smash bros first but not Ninten. Ninten was first why Sakurai will chose Ness over Ninten at the 64 timeline I'm curios why?

EarthBound was more recent, was released in America, and Mother 2 sold almost twice as much as Mother did in Japan.

 

[Gallowglass]

So we have a few ways Ninten can be design.

Looks
We can have him with neckerchief and a slightly different hat. He could also have a solid blue shirt which looks more like his sprite image.

Echo Moveset
He could be an Echo for Ness or Lucas but I feel like Ness is more suitable since Ninten is more of a physical fighter than a PSI fighter.

Original Moveset
I would like to see Ninten be more physical base fighter. Possibly uses his bat all the time instead of just for smash attacks. Of course he could use other items too in his smash attacks like the StkyMachine, Flea Bag, and FL Thrower. His specials will be his PSI moves which wouldn't necessary do direct damage. Many of them would be similar to Mewtwo in effect.

B: Hypnosis: Ninten sends rings out in front of him for a short distance. Enemies who move into that ray will fall asleep.
Up B: 4th-D Slip: Ninten warps into the 4th Dimension and reappears to another part of the map. Like Mewtwo's teleport or Zelda's Farore's Wind
Down B: PSI Shield: Same as Ness. I was thinking of a way to use Power Shield and I couldn't something that wasn't completely broken.
Forward B: Quick Up: Ninten does a dash attack forward and swings his bat at the enemy.
Final Smash: PK Beam γ : Ana and Lloyd appear at Ninten's side and all three fire at once as shot across the stage that launches anyone in its path.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Here's my Stance on it;

A. I Want it to happen
B. Could have an Outfit Inspired by his Mother 1 Live-Action Commercial Trailer(Complete with Scarf, and red, white & Blue Stripes on his Shirt)
C. There's a Code Name that's Leaked that codename: Prime Ribs; as ANY Earthbound Trilogy fan will tell you; Prime Ribs are NINTEN'S FAVORITE FOOD by Default
D. Maybe he could use PK Beam(an Attack FROM That VERY Game), or 4th D-Slip(A Move he ACTUALLY Learns in the game; akin to How Ness ACTUALLY has a Move he learned in the game as an attack, aka PK Flash)

 

[Shin F.]

After seeing the fake leak of Ninten that was photoshopped from Lucas, I thought I'd try my hand at stitching Ness and Lucas together with some heavy editing to try and come up with a nice render. I think it turned out pretty well, so I thought I'd post it. You can clearly see it's photoshopped at full size, but it's not half bad before you zoom in on it.

Spoiler

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

After seeing the fake leak of Ninten that was photoshopped from Lucas, I thought I'd try my hand at stitching Ness and Lucas together with some heavy editing to try and come up with a nice render. I think it turned out pretty well, so I thought I'd post it. You can clearly see it's photoshopped at full size, but it's not half bad before you zoom in on it.

Such good stuff, Shin. Seeing them all stand side by side really makes me want Ninten that much more. Celebrating what started the Mother series by putting that final touch on the fanservice it's gotten from Smash for 20 years. Man, I really hope they would take influences from the commercial design because it looks so nice on a model and next to the other psychics.

He may not be a popular choice among Echo fighters, and that could be a hard sell for his inclusion, but since they went out of their way to add all of Mother's stages back and create new 3D models for party members, it gives me hope that Sakurai may add him as a personal choice.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Such good stuff, Shin. Seeing them all stand side by side really makes me want Ninten that much more. Celebrating what started the Mother series by putting that final touch on the fanservice it's gotten from Smash for 20 years. Man, I really hope they would take influences from the commercial design because it looks so nice on a model and next to the other psychics.

He may not be a popular choice among Echo fighters, and that could be a hard sell for his inclusion, but since they went out of their way to add all of Mother's stages back and create new 3D models for party members, it gives me hope that Sakurai may add him as a personal choice.

I Sure hope so; I Mean NINTEN'S Original Game Made it outside of japan in 2011 as Earthbound Beginnings Via Digital Distribution; and He Has yet to appear in Smash; even though LUCAS was in smash since Brawl; and HIS Home Game STILL is exclusive to Japan, Outside of Fanmade Translations that can only be accessed Online; Plus There's the "Prime Ribs" Codename; Which COULD reference Metroid Prime series; But If it were, WHY NOT just make its codename PRIME; Unless it was ACTUALLY Ninten; since Prime Ribs are Ninten's Favorite Food!!

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

LETS BRING ALL THE MOTHER PROTAGNISTS IN!

Ninten as an echo of Ness is one of only 2 echos i want in smash ultimate, i support him! :3

 

[spinalwolf]

Count me in. I think Ninten would be perfect as an echo fighter for Ness. I would prefer if Sakurai would give him a more original moveset tbh but I'm fine if he joins as an echo fighter. I always thought it odd that Ness and Lucas were to represent Earthbound/mother from their games and not have Ninten in there, which was the original protagonist of the game that started the franchise. I've been wanting Ninten in smash ever since I played Earthbound Beginnings.

 

[StarDustStorm]

I have never seen a Trilogy represented in Smash Bros. and Ninten would be perfect since all 3 Mother games are represented with a stage in Ultimate. I would support him.

 

[smashingDoug]

I’m not against him but I do think his 2d sprite looks similar to ness way to much maybe a 3D one could change it.

I also would be a little disheartened if Mother has three reps with not hate on the games it would suck seeing F -zero still be the one rep franchise from 64. Yoshi is probably not part of the Mario series just so it looked good on the 64 character select screen

 

[GoodGrief741]

I’m not against him but I do think his 2d sprite looks similar to ness way to much maybe a 3D one could change it.

I also would be a little disheartened if Mother has three reps with not hate on the games it would suck seeing F -zero still be the one rep franchise from 64. Yoshi is probably not part of the Mario series just so it looked good on the 64 character select screen

As much as I’d like Black Shadow to get in, F-Zero is already the only one rep franchise from 64, and has been since Brawl. That’s nothing Ninten would change.

 

[smashingDoug]

As much as I’d like Black Shadow to get in, F-Zero is already the only one rep franchise from 64, and has been since Brawl. That’s nothing Ninten would change.

But to see it skipped over again would suck again is all I was saying.

And no Ninten probably wouldn’t change it.

 

[StarDustStorm]

I’m not against him but I do think his 2d sprite looks similar to ness way to much maybe a 3D one could change it.

I also would be a little disheartened if Mother has three reps with not hate on the games it would suck seeing F -zero still be the one rep franchise from 64. Yoshi is probably not part of the Mario series just so it looked good on the 64 character select screen

Mother is more popular in Japan, and there's much more potential for a moveset than an F-Zero since you have to make one from scratch like Captain Falcon At least people know that Ninen comes from the first Mother game but other than that they do get some things wrong. Also when Lucas was revealed in Brawl, nobody asked for him as a playable character. And was very underwhelming for most people since they did not know him other than being in the same series as Ness. I mean EarthBound gets more exposure nowdays than F-Zero, such as a cult fanbase, the Mother 3 memes, Reggie asked about Mother 3, the Avgn Video, Game Theory's Ness video, UnderTale and Chuggaconroy's currently running Replaying EarthBound LP. Some people think that F-Zero is sort of an outdated racer, while EarthBound is a timeless classic and became an essential Snes game by retro fans. There's more exposure for the Mother Series outside of the Super Smash Bros. Series.
We can't see the sales of EarthBound on VC. and the original release sales figures isn't very reflective of today's Mother Series other than somewhat neglected, but not Obscure. We know it sold well from what Nintendo said about EB on VC, or else they wouldn't release EBB.

Currently not ALL F-Zero stages are confirmed and people aren't expecting them to return, while the Mother Series has all of their stages returning from previous titles and the Rambling Mushroom was confirmed to be in the game, Ness and Lucas has some friends in their Final Smash. We could be getting about 5 additional trophies in Ultimate when including the Rambling Mushroom item and the Final Smash characters I'm not surprised that Sakurai seems to favor the Mother Series over F-Zero. Sakurai could've easily chosen not to include Lucas in Brawl because the game wasn't released in Japan. He didn't even want to emphasize Japanese-only characters. Maybe why he cut Lucas at first in Sm4sh, but did make him DLC later on because fans wanted him back.

It's also worth noting that when F-Zero and EB had the same amount of representation in Sm4sh, the Mother Series had at least 2 Smash Run enemies: The Starman (Also an assist trophy), and the Devil Car from Mother 1, F-zero had none. A similar case happens with the fact that Porky was a boss in Brawl along with the Porky Statue appearing in the stage. F-zero only got represented from the Blue Falcon and Captain Falcon himself in Subspace. In Melee and Brawl respectively, the Mr. Saturn item (Can be plucked as a very low chance for Peach's Turnips), and Franklin Badge (Also an item you can put on in the Special modes) were put into the Smash Series. F-Zero did have a stage you had to run through in Adventure mode.

In the Extravaganza Video, they also drew an image of this for Ness...

People are pretty much knows why it has more representation than F-Zero and made a post in reddit a while ago but some aren't okay that it has more representation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/8cdswj/so_why_does_the_mother_series_get_more_smash_bros/
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...y_does_the_mother_series_get_more_smash_bros/

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

I’m not against him but I do think his 2d sprite looks similar to ness way to much maybe a 3D one could change it.

I also would be a little disheartened if Mother has three reps with not hate on the games it would suck seeing F -zero still be the one rep franchise from 64. Yoshi is probably not part of the Mario series just so it looked good on the 64 character select screen

There's an Easy way around that;
A. Make his Eyes Pac-man shaped like Kumatora's(Her OFFICIAL Clay model from Mother 3; NOT Her Smash Ultimate Model)
B. Model his clothes after the Mother 1 Live-Action Commercial; Complete with Red White & Blue Stripes on his shirt, and a Scarf around his Neck; instead of his in-game sprites
C. Give him 4th-D Slip & PK Beam As Attacks[the former is a move he ACTUALLY learns in the game(Akin to Ness having a Move from his home game that he ACTUALLY learns, aka PK Flash) the Later is an Attack that was ONLY Featured in Earthbound Beginnings)

 

[smashingDoug]

Mother is more popular in Japan, and there's much more potential for a moveset than an F-Zero since you have to make one from scratch like Captain Falcon At least people know that Ninen comes from the first Mother game but other than that they do get some things wrong. Also when Lucas was revealed in Brawl, nobody asked for him as a playable character. And was very underwhelming for most people since they did not know him other than being in the same series as Ness. I mean EarthBound gets more exposure nowdays than F-Zero, such as a cult fanbase, the Mother 3 memes, Reggie asked about Mother 3, the Avgn Video, Game Theory's Ness video, UnderTale and Chuggaconroy's currently running Replaying EarthBound LP. Some people think that F-Zero is sort of an outdated racer, while EarthBound is a timeless classic and became an essential Snes game by retro fans. There's more exposure for the Mother Series outside of the Super Smash Bros. Series.
We can't see the sales of EarthBound on VC. and the original release sales figures isn't very reflective of today's Mother Series other than somewhat neglected, but not Obscure. We know it sold well from what Nintendo said about EB on VC, or else they wouldn't release EBB.

Currently not ALL F-Zero stages are confirmed and people aren't expecting them to return, while the Mother Series has all of their stages returning from previous titles and the Rambling Mushroom was confirmed to be in the game, Ness and Lucas has some friends in their Final Smash. We could be getting about 5 additional trophies in Ultimate when including the Rambling Mushroom item and the Final Smash characters I'm not surprised that Sakurai seems to favor the Mother Series over F-Zero. Sakurai could've easily chosen not to include Lucas in Brawl because the game wasn't released in Japan. He didn't even want to emphasize Japanese-only characters. Maybe why he cut Lucas at first in Sm4sh, but did make him DLC later on because fans wanted him back.

It's also worth noting that when F-Zero and EB had the same amount of representation in Sm4sh, the Mother Series had at least 2 Smash Run enemies: The Starman (Also an assist trophy), and the Devil Car from Mother 1, F-zero had none. A similar case happens with the fact that Porky was a boss in Brawl along with the Porky Statue appearing in the stage. F-zero only got represented from the Blue Falcon and Captain Falcon himself in Subspace. In Melee and Brawl respectively, the Mr. Saturn item (Can be plucked as a very low chance for Peach's Turnips), and Franklin Badge (Also an item you can put on in the Special modes) were put into the Smash Series. F-Zero did have a stage you had to run through in Adventure mode.

In the Extravaganza Video, they also drew an image of this for Ness...

People are pretty much knows why it has more representation than F-Zero and made a post in reddit a while ago but some aren't okay that it has more representation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/8cdswj/so_why_does_the_mother_series_get_more_smash_bros/
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...y_does_the_mother_series_get_more_smash_bros/

No i know why f zero doesn’t get newcomers not just because it’s “Dead”you got nothing to work with for most of the cast. Just saying it’s a sad to see.

I would be okay with mother getting three newcomers tbh. Masked man, Ninen, porky

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Lucas is at worst, a semi-clone. They're different enough that borrowing from both of them would make Ninten not an Echo fighter of either one. There's no rule that says it couldn't happen, but judging what we know about Echo fighters (exactly the same as the original source) and how they're advertised (same fighter number + an epsilon symbol... would Ninten need to be both #10 and #37?), it doesn't seem likely.

Ninten wouldn't really be the same as either of them for One Distinctive Reason:
PK Starstorm didn't EXIST as an Attack in Earthbound Beginnings; as such he'll have a COMPLETELY Different Final Smash(Most Likely alongside Anna & Lloyd in a similar Manner to how Paula & Poo Join Ness in HIS Final Smash; AND how Kumatora & Boney appear in Lucas' Final Smash)

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Ninten wouldn't really be the same as either of them for One Distinctive Reason:
PK Starstorm didn't EXIST as an Attack in Earthbound Beginnings; as such he'll have a COMPLETELY Different Final Smash(Most Likely alongside Anna & Lloyd in a similar Manner to how Paula & Poo Join Ness in HIS Final Smash; AND how Kumatora & Boney appear in Lucas' Final Smash)

Dark Pit still has a completely different Final Smash from Pit. It doesn't disqualify Ninten from being an Echo.

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Dark Pit still has a completely different Final Smash from Pit. It doesn't disqualify Ninten from being an Echo.

I DIDN'T Say Ninten WOULDN'T be an Echo; that's PRETTY Much a given he'd be one; I Was just saying he's got Distinguishable Differences between him, Ness & Lucas, as such; He wouldn't be one-to-one with EITHER of them.

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

I DIDN'T Say Ninten WOULDN'T be an Echo; that's PRETTY Much a given he'd be one; I Was just saying he's got Distinguishable Differences between him, Ness & Lucas, as such; He wouldn't be one-to-one with EITHER of them.

I see. Which of them do you think he'd be an Echo of? In-game, he'd have to become nearly identical to one of them even if he's not a perfect fit. Best case scenario is that he mixes and matches but we haven't seen an Echo of two fighters yet.

 

[StarDustStorm]

I see. Which of them do you think he'd be an Echo of? In-game, he'd have to become nearly identical to one of them even if he's not a perfect fit. Best case scenario is that he mixes and matches but we haven't seen an Echo of two fighters yet.

Characters can still have different animations if they are a clone, example: Dr. Mario's dair and down-b in Sm4sh, and Ganondorf's Fair in Melee. Wolf is not a clone, but he reuses a ton of animations from other characters...according to the Smash Bros. Wiki

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

Characters can still have different animations if they are a clone, example: Dr. Mario's dair and down-b in Sm4sh, and Ganondorf's Fair in Melee. Wolf is not a clone, but he reuses a ton of animations from other characters...according to the Smash Bros. Wiki

Yes, they can. Lucina has a different animation for her Shield Breaker. It just can't be so different that it changes the move entirely in the case of Echos. Honestly, I don't think Ninten would need to have any animation differences aside from the usual taunt and victory animations because I just thought of something:

There's actually a pretty easy fix for PK Flash if Ninten were a Ness Echo. They could port the Smash 4 PK Freeze custom move onto him since it functions the same. It's just a change in the move's properties. From there, it's just a different FS (which is fair game according to Dark Pit) and we're golden.

 

[MattX20]

What would they change the yoyo to? That's the main issue the Ness echo fighter concept has apart from PK Flash, but I suppose some could argue custom moves could fix that with PK Freeze.

 

[StarDustStorm]

What would they change the yoyo to? That's the main issue the Ness echo fighter concept has apart from PK Flash, but I suppose some could argue custom moves could fix that with PK Freeze.

Like I said in my previous post, Ganondorf in Melee and Dr. Mario in Sm4sh still had different attacks from the original characters. For example Ganondorf didn't use the knee smash on his Fair and we know Dr. Mario can't use flood so obviously they just left him with his original dair and Dr. Tornado as those moves from the original character did not suite them at all. I know about Lucina's shield breaker but its not as drastic different compared to the two I described above. Ex. Ganondorf uses his arm instead of a knee on Fair, and Dr. Mario twirls on an axis on his dair, the flood situation I already described.
They could use moves from another fighter, Dark Pit had another final smash, and give a character an animation takes much less time than porting a final Smash since they have to do all the effects even if some are just porting another one.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Like I said in my previous post, Ganondorf in Melee and Dr. Mario in Sm4sh still had different attacks from the original characters. For example Ganondorf didn't use the knee smash on his Fair and we know Dr. Mario can't use flood so obviously they just left him with his original dair and Dr. Tornado as those moves from the original character did not suite them at all. I know about Lucina's shield breaker but its not as drastic different compared to the two I described above. Ex. Ganondorf uses his arm instead of a knee on Fair, and Dr. Mario twirls on an axis on his dair, the flood situation I already described.
They could use moves from another fighter, Dark Pit had another final smash, and give a character an animation takes much less time than porting a final Smash since they have to do all the effects even if some are just porting another one.

Ganondorf and Dr. Mario aren’t Echo Fighters though. When trying to predict an Echo Fighter, we have to look at Dark Pit, Lucina and Daisy, all of whom seem to share normal attacks with their originals. So if Ninten were to be an Echo, either he has the yo-yo attacks, or he’s a Lucas Echo.

Or we might suppose Ninten is a regular clone or semi-clone, but I don’t know if we’ll even get those this time around.