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Social NintenZone Social 6.0 - L'Arachel Edition, Apparently?

Best Galar Starter?


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Coricus

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>GameFAQs

That explains it.
My condolences.
Oddly GameFAQs is leagues more amiable than SEGA's official forums which I browsed around the same time, which was in turn leagues more amiable than the other dedicated Sonic forums I didn't have the stomach to touch even back then.

If that doesn't tell you roughly how bad the Sonic fandom is when it stagnates long enough to settle a substrate I don't know what will.

Well, other than maybe the fact that SEGA's forums called Izuka "horse teeth" and harassed a Sonic 4 dev off the website.
 
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vaanrose

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You know, thinking it over, I don't think any of my most wanted characters wear cool shoes. They either wear pretty generic shoes, no shoes, or in Chrom's case, wear two different shoes because they're a fashion disaster.
But Chrom's shoes match?
 

Pokechu

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The roster was finalized in 2015, long before Samus Returns. It had no impact on Ridley getting in. And that's a double standard. Waluigi getting snubbed made the news. Sakurai will likely at least reconsider him.

Pulling out random props isn't a great idea for a moveset unless it revolves around that being the theme, and we have Game and Watch for that. Like I said, a good moveset isn't just a set of moves.

You can't say popularity won't be enough because it was enough for Ridley. Importance doesn't really matter when every truly important Mario character is already in, save for Captain Toad. And even then, Chrom was more important to Awakening than Robin and especially Lucina. Importance isn't the sole factor.
There's no point in considering Waluigi in the first place, though. Importance definitely is an... important, heh, factor. Chrom and Robin were of equal importance because while the Lord is Chrom, Robin is the player character and who the latter half of the story revolves around. And Lucina was an EZ clone so she's a whole different case. Not only that, but Robin offered much more than Chrom did, making Robin the obvious choice to add from Awakening.

We won't agree on the moveset fitting Daisy, so I'll drop that (but "coherent moveset!" isn't an argument for why a character should be in).

Ridley definitely had more going for him than his popularity. He's from a smaller series (he's the third Metroid character), he holds an important role in that series, and he's had major roles in the previous Smash games.

Waluigi only has his popularity, and when he has to go up against Toad, Paper Mario (who, yes, he is important, he has a whole series of games, doesn't matter if you don't like him), and Geno, even (who Sakurai has personally wanted to include since Brawl), that popularity won't get him anywhere but his Assist position. Which he's been for the past three games (including U).
 
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ChikoLad

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And I still don't know how our non-Smashboards website spreads can be so different, LOL.

Mostly just past experience lurking GameFAQs and current experience browsing SmashERA, the latter of which kind of lampshaded it too.

I don't have the guts to check the actual Sonic fandom websites I used to anymore because off the coattails of Generations when I browsed that most they already hated literally anything and everything in existence. Granted back then at least they didn't want any more Sonic characters in Smash either.
Websites like GameFAQS and ResetERA (which is basically just Neo-NeoGAF from what little time I've spent there) are full of people who seek to actively troll, or genuinely are just really obsessive about these games. They're a minority.

Within the actual Sonic fanbase at least, Tails is definitely really beloved. Even the "hate" for Tails in Forces is really just fans upset with how his character has been flanderised and regressed in recent modern games.

Most of the Tails hate in recent years is actually fans of the character being upset with how he's been written in the Modern games, but people have been all over Boom Tails and Classic Tails.
 

redfeatherraven

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We've got ourselves a real sportsball fan over here.
DUDE I LOVE SPORTSBALL.

GO TEAM.

I still don't get why you act like Tails is this widely hated character. He's one of the most popular Sonic characters. I don't see any of this "hate" you keep mentioning.
I've seen him get dumped on here and there from the 3D era as a kind of annoying kid sidekick.

Haven't seen it much here, but I think that's just a credit to us -

Mostly just past experience lurking GameFAQs and current experience browsing SmashERA, the latter of which kind of lampshaded it too.
- and a detriment to them.
 

Z25

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Paper mario has arguably earned a spot and is a thousand times more unique than both Mario’s.

I also think toad doesn’t deserve a spot but captain toad does for what he does to buff up the look and capability of toad
 

Pokechu

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Except yes it is.

That's like, a basic rule of game design.
No, it isn't. Because ANY character can have a coherent moveset.

Goku can have a coherent moveset. He should be in!

A coherent moveset shouldn't be "merit" for a character, is all I'm saying. You shouldn't say "Waluigi should be in, because he would have a coherent moveset!"

Well, I'd hope he would!
 

Androobie

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There's no point in considering Waluigi in the first place, though.
Are you implying that he isn’t important enough to get in?

Waluigi is the ultimate example of the individual shaped by the signifier. Waluigi is a man seen only in mirror images; lost in a hall of mirrors he is a reflection of a reflection of a reflection. You start with Mario – the wholesome all Italian plumbing superman, you reflect him to create Luigi – the same thing but slightly less. You invert Mario to create Wario – Mario turned septic and libertarian – then you reflect the inversion in the reflection: you create a being who can only exist in reference to others. Waluigi is the true nowhere man, without the other characters he reflects, inverts and parodies he has no reason to exist. Waluigi’s identity only comes from what and who he isn’t – without a wider frame of reference he is nothing. He is not his own man. In a world where our identities are shaped by our warped relationships to brands and commerce we are all Waluigi.
 

praline

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No, it isn't. Because ANY character can have a coherent moveset.

Goku can have a coherent moveset. He should be in!

A coherent moveset shouldn't be "merit" for a character, is all I'm saying. You shouldn't say "Waluigi should be in, because he would have a coherent moveset!"

Well, I'd hope he would!
Goku should be in though.
 

vaanrose

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Except yes it is.

That's like, a basic rule of game design.
Hypothetical movesets are never a good argument for or against characters, imo. Fans have yet to be correct about how a character winds up playing. Sakurai surprises us just as often as he disappoints us. When a character like Sonic gets a boring. uninspired moveset and a character like Duck Hunt gets a super creative one, arguing moveset potential for any character just seems pointless.
 

Starlight_Lily

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Mostly what I was getting at was what's your design language preference.

The reality is if you want a career in game design, then stay away from anime art. It will get you nowhere in the west and far too often people just starting out spend all their time learning techniques for an art design language that makes you completely unhireable.

But if you want to hobby in game design, then by all means, anime away. It's not as though anime doesn't sell at all in the west, it's just not something you'll find very much paid work for.

I've got lots of personal favorite artbooks, it's just a question of what you're specifically looking to learn how to do.
Right now, basic realistic humans, so the foundation is better, basically so I can do my design stuff better.

All my anime stuff would be for personal projects, and my VN is just a silly passion project I have, since all my written notes very much mark it as a anime filled with a lot of magical girl cliches.

View attachment 154991
Boi is verr unhapp, will cut
Pit will make him perky though. :V

Tails deserves love and attention. But he's not Angry Face McCoolShoes so nobody wants him.
Tails should have been Sonic's AT.

Yes, I'm still bitter about this, the only way to right this wrong, is to make Tails pmayable.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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No, it isn't. Because ANY character can have a coherent moveset.

Goku can have a coherent moveset. He should be in!

A coherent moveset shouldn't be "merit" for a character, is all I'm saying. You shouldn't say "Waluigi should be in, because he would have a coherent moveset!"

Well, I'd hope he would!
Coherence is still a key factor. It's not the ONLY argument, but it's definitely a big one.

Making a moveset that represents the character's personality while still feeling coherent isn't as easy as you'd think.

This is why Opo's Waluigi's moveset doesn't work on Daisy; she's not a deceptive tricktser that gives no **** about rules like Waluigi is.
 

Chrono.

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Would definitely love for Tails to be playable, he's still my most wanted character. Sadly it seems like we're not getting any Sonic characters at all (except maybe Shadow, who I'm okayish with) so I'm gonna keep expectations low.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Hypothetical movesets are never a good argument for or against characters, imo. Fans have yet to be correct about how a character winds up playing. Sakurai surprises us just as often as he disappoints us. When a character like Sonic gets a boring. uninspired moveset and a character like Duck Hunt gets a super creative one, arguing moveset potential for any character just seems pointless.
In all fairness, Sonic was rushed (pun intended) when being put in Brawl because of how late he was implimented.

Though it doesn't help his case much in later installments, I'll give you that.
 
D

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Hypothetical movesets are never a good argument for or against characters, imo. Fans have yet to be correct about how a character winds up playing. Sakurai surprises us just as often as he disappoints us. When a character like Sonic gets a boring. uninspired moveset and a character like Duck Hunt gets a super creative one, arguing moveset potential for any character just seems pointless.
It bothers me especially when people generalize characters so they seem uninteresting
"Little Mac would just punch", "Bomberman would just throw bombs", "Celica would just be a Robin clone", "Ridley would just be a Charizard clone", etc etc
Anything can be dumbed down to a basic concept and it bothers me it's used as a legit argument in this site. And the argument is one forgets the "When All You Have Is A Hammer" trope which perfectly shows how a character can use one basic tool to do almost anything.

Additional note: I have to disagree with you on Sonic. Besides his Down B, I quite enjoy his moveset, if anything, for being simplistic.
 

ChikoLad

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I've seen him get dumped on here and there from the 3D era as a kind of annoying kid sidekick.
Post-Colours, that's all Tails really amounts to, if that's what you mean.

If there is one word I would use to describe post-Colours Modern Tails, it would be "annoying", or "frustrating". As someone who generally likes the character. I haven't been a big fan of the way the more recent main series Sonic games have handled characterisation, but of all the characters, Tails was by far hit the worst. His character was utterly run into the ground and his whole character arc that was so well rounded from the Adventure days and to a smaller degree, Unleashed, was completely thrown out all because Pontac and Graff couldn't do a bit of research.
 

Starlight_Lily

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So I saw you all talking about learning languages.

Not to brag, but I know UK English and USA English.

You may all think this is a joke, but when I say I know both, I mean I know the speech paterns of how Brits and Americans talk, and well, I know slang terms that they use, so basically when you factorin slang, UK English and USA English basically are different languages.
 

vaanrose

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Right now, basic realistic humans, so the foundation is better, basically so I can do my design stuff better.

All my anime stuff would be for personal projects, and my VN is just a silly passion project I have, since all my written notes very much mark it as a anime filled with a lot of magical girl cliches.
Constructive Anatomy - A classic staple. Every artist should own a copy, Bridgman was a complete master of anatomy.
Anatomy for Sculptors - Single best visual breakdown of all muscles on the market, imo. Definitely not just for sculptors.
How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way - Don't be fooled by the title, this is not a cheap kids How to Draw book you see in the magazine aisle at a grocery store. This is one of Marvel's all time greats going over everything you need to know to draw idealized larger-than-life characters, which is what video games want.
Animator's Survival Kit - Literally my bible. 400 pages on capturing motion by one of the greatest animators that's ever lived.
 

Zinith

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It bothers me especially when people generalize characters so they seem uninteresting
"Little Mac would just punch", "Bomberman would just throw bombs", "Celica would just be a Robin clone", "Ridley would just be a Charizard clone", etc etc
Anything can be dumbed down to a basic concept and it bothers me it's used as a legit argument in this site. And the argument is one forgets the "When All You Have Is A Hammer" trope which perfectly shows how a character can use one basic tool to do almost anything.

Additional note: I have to disagree with you on Sonic. Besides his Down B, I quite enjoy his moveset, if anything, for being simplistic.
Or the character in question is someone like Dig Dug, whose main trait that could be turned into a moveset is a little... um, off-putting to say the least
 

Opossum

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He's got different color pant legs, but those little elf boots look the same to me >~>
Oh my god I always thought those were weird spats on top of boots or something. I mean in fairness Awakening's character models didn't have feet so it was hard to tell, but still.

Damn.
 

ChikoLad

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It bothers me especially when people generalize characters so they seem uninteresting
"Little Mac would just punch", "Bomberman would just throw bombs", "Celica would just be a Robin clone", "Ridley would just be a Charizard clone", etc etc
Anything can be dumbed down to a basic concept and it bothers me it's used as a legit argument in this site. And the argument is one forgets the "When All You Have Is A Hammer" trope which perfectly shows how a character can use one basic tool to do almost anything.

Additional note: I have to disagree with you on Sonic. Besides his Down B, I quite enjoy his moveset, if anything, for being simplistic.
While I agree that I enjoy playing as Sonic and his moveset is practical and has nuance in it's own weird way, I think what vaan is getting at is that, before Sonic was revealed for Brawl, he would have been viewed as a character with some of the most moveset potential among the speculation community, because quite frankly yeah, he's one of the most versatile video games characters when it comes to the wide range of abilities he has. You could probably make a decently sized Smash roster with all unique movesets, where every character is Sonic.

Yet when we actually get Sonic in Smash, he uses like, two of his well known moves and a couple of animations borrowed from Sonic the Fighters.

Then there's Pac-Man, who many people thought could do nothing in speculation, then we actually get him and he's this crazy, nuanced mix of different, identifiable, and varied abilities.
 

vaanrose

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Oh my god I always thought those were weird spats on top of boots or something. I mean in fairness Awakening's character models didn't have feet so it was hard to tell, but still.

Damn.
It literally looks like he's got armor boots on top of elf boots on top of riding boots

Lol, this is why I hate Japanese character design
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Oh my god I always thought those were weird spats on top of boots or something. I mean in fairness Awakening's character models didn't have feet so it was hard to tell, but still.

Damn.
Even to this day, you still learn new things about your favorite Fire Emblem dork. How amazing, right? :p
 

Opossum

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It literally looks like he's got armor boots on top of elf boots on top of riding boots

Lol, this is why I hate Japanese character design
Boots in Fire Emblem games increase a unit's movement.

Clearly it was a tactical decision. Clearly.
 

Mythra

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One pair of boots give me +10 Speed, another pair gives me +5 and a third one gives me +20.
Therefore if I wear all pairs at the same time I get +35 Speed.


Flawless logic.
 
D

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I can see why a lot of people in here main or secondary Shulk. Shulk is so fun in Smash 4.
 
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