Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
It appears that you are using ad block :'(
Hey, we get it. However this website is run by and for the community... and it needs ads in order to keep running.
Please disable your adblock on Smashboards, or go premium to hide all advertisements and this notice. Alternatively, this ad may have just failed to load. Woops!
There is a kind of sue where the author figured out that flaws are essential but doesn't quite thread the needle and instead makes a barely functioning mess that walks like a man/woman/robot: The Failure Sue. Leading cause of the 8 deadly words: "I don't care what happens to this/these character(s)"
Because anything that isn't a Lord with character or development is a Mary Sue. Robin is well liked because he's kind of a smartass while we have Corrin who angsts too much depending on the game (I like him though).
This is probably why I don't think keeping Avatars are a good idea unless they improve on the character's writing.
I know my response is pretty late, but I thought I'd respond and write down my thoughts once I was more awake.
Birthright: It's like Awakening in terms of gameplay, but highly improved. Most maps aren't just open fields like the last one, and the pair-up mechanic is no longer broken. Yet, it's because of the Awakening-style gameplay that playing through maps isn't as fun as Conquest. I remember thinking about which maps could've been turned into seize maps or defend missions in the game, "defeat the boss" with added conditions, or just make some of the maps bigger (a.k.a. Leo's map). The enemies don't have skills for most of the game, and only in the later chapters do some of the enemies gain a set of skills like a Conquest enemy would. Reinforcements can also be frustrating in this route. One particular late-game chapter could've been a mandatory challenge instead of an optional one.
Chapter 26 could've been improved by not allowing you to OHKO Xander right away. Yes, the chapter still allows your other units to battle the surrounding units and then kill Xander, but there wasn't a strong incentive for that other than wanting to challenge yourself.
Birthright Chapter 26's Conquest parallel, Chapter 25, basically forces you to take care of the surrounding enemies first and then defeat Ryoma. When you fight Ryoma in that chapter, it is similar to Xander where you and him are separated from everyone else. Both characters stand in an arena at the center of the map, and the floor beneath them is covered with healing tiles that not only will heal both units each turn, but also causes their attacks to lose lots of accuracy and deal very little damage. A Dragon Vein located above the arena can be used to remove the healing tiles and allow Ryoma and Corrin to deal normal damage to each other. However, that Dragon Vein is located in between two doors, and unlike other doors, those can't be opened with Locktouch or a Door Key. In order to open the doors so that you can gain access to the Dragon Vein and the arena, you need to kill both of Ryoma's retainers on the top left and top right portions of the map (in Normal, you only need to kill one of them).
That said, Birthright Chapter 26 could be improved by making it similar to Conquest Chapter 25. First, cover the entire arena Corrin and Xander are trapped in with healing tiles so that they deal very little damage to each other with highly inaccurate attacks. Next, make sure both doors (to the arena) cannot be opened with a Door Key or Locktouch. The only way you would be able to open the arena doors is by killing Laslow AND Peri in battle. Behind Laslow and Peri would be a long wall door for each side that guards the Dragon Vein to deactivate the healing tiles located where Corrin and Xander are. In addition to the arena doors, those long wall doors would only be opened by killing both of Xander's retainers.
Additionally, I would leave Xander's stats lowered simply because it makes sense story wise. Because of the emotional guilt he's feeling following Elise's death, he wants Corrin to end his life. In order to make Xander a threatening foe even with lowered stats, I would give him skills that would still make him a challenge. Rend Heaven could allow him to deal more damage, Death Blow would increase the chance Xander would land a critical hit, or maybe Wary Fighter would be used to make up for his low speed. Furthermore, make Xander avoid attacking on the enemy phase for roughly 20 turns (normally in Birthright, Xander will attack immediately on the first turn on Lunatic, but will not attack at all except for counterattacks on Normal or Hard). This way, you would have a time limit for your other units to reach the Dragon Vein. In Conquest, Ryoma will avoid attacking on the enemy phase for 25 turns so that your other units can reach the Dragon Vein first while trying to beat the clock.
All these changes would make Chapter 26 a true challenge you must experience instead of making it optional. Once you activate the Dragon Vein, you then have a choice: do you want to make Xander's battle honorable by allowing Corrin to finish him off from there, or do you want to take the darker route and let your other units kill Xander.
Story-wise, Birthright is my favorite of the three routes. Yes, it has your typical Fire Emblem plot, but for me, that approach allowed the plot to feel more consistent in its writing compared to Conquest, Revelation, and even Awakening. Birthright's story still has some issues (and its issues are much less than Conquest and Revelation's), but it does have some good moments. All of the Nohrian siblings get much more spotlight in Birthright then the Hoshidan siblings (minus Takumi) in Conquest, and Chapter 18 + Chapter 22 onward was my favorite part of the story.
As for characters, I can understand why the Hoshidan characters are rather bland compared to the Nohrian characters and the Awakening cast, but to be honest, I enjoyed much of the Hoshidan cast as much as the Nohrian cast. The royal siblings (Takumi especially; he's my favorite character in all of Fates), Oboro, Scarlet, and Saizo definitely come to mind right away as the more interesting, though I also enjoyed characters like Hinata, Kaden, Azama, Setsuna, and Kagero.
Hinata may come out bland at first, but he actually has a lot of great support conversations (namely his supports with Takumi, Azura, Mozu, Felicia, Odin, Kagero, Oboro, Kaden, Sakura, and Hinoka; the last one is especially noteworthy because that's where Hinoka experiences the most character development) that flesh him out to be a really enjoyable character (Hinata and Oboro are also my favorite retainer duo in Fates). I enjoy Kaden for his humor, design, and kind personality, and he too has a lot of good supports much like Hinata. I enjoy Azama and Setsuna for their humor, while I enjoy Kagero for her loyalty to Hoshido, her art hobby, and a somewhat nice backstory (her supports with Corrin and Orochi explore that); Saizo is still the winner between him and Kagero for the more interesting character though.
Conquest: In terms of gameplay, Conquest is awesome. There is a diverse range of missions, well-designed maps, and a great challenge provided throughout most of the game. In fact, some of the maps can be aggravating as I played through them, but when I beat those maps, I felt some nice satisfaction for making the accomplishment. Some of my favorite chapters in the game in terms of gameplay were Chapters 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 20, 23, and 24 (Chapters 10 and 23 are my top 2 favorites). Admittedly, I dropped the difficulty from Hard to Normal at Chapter 12 because I got stumped there, but even some of the later chapters took multiple tries to complete.
Story wise, Conquest was my least favorite of the three routes. The writing felt very poor, with forced conflicts and inconsistent writing that primarily come to mind. The story really falls apart from Chapter 15 onward because the events that happen from there are the result of a dumb plot device. There, the only good Conquest chapters in terms of plot were Chapters 22 and 25 (prior to Chapter 15, I enjoyed Chapters 10 through 12 story-wise).
When it comes to the characters, I enjoyed the Nohrian cast as much as the Hoshidan cast as previously mentioned. A good number of them have some interesting backstories with some lovable personalities. My favorite Nohrian characters include Laslow, Niles, Arthur, Charlotte, and Xander, though I also enjoyed characters such as Benny and Effie. The Nohrian royals were mostly enjoyable characters for the most part, though I'm one of the new that prefers the Hoshidan royals over the Nohrian ones. I found Takumi to be a much more interesting and relatable character than Leo, while I liked Sakura more than Elise because I found her less clingy than the latter (not to mention I like Sakura's personality more than Elise's). Despite this, I still like Leo and Elise as characters (and I will admit that Elise is much more likable in Birthright than she is Conquest). Xander is the only Nohrian royal I liked more than a Hoshidan royal, Ryoma. I found Xander's character more interesting because of his flaws and hardship pointed out in his supports. Camilla is a character that I didn't like even though I read her supports. I'm just not a fan of her over-attachment to Corrin.
Revelation: I found Revelation to be the middle ground between Birthright and Conquest in terms of gameplay and story. Gameplay-wise, a number of maps are pretty disappointing. The two chapters that I particularly didn't like were Chapters 10 and 22. Chapter 10 is easily my least favorite map in all of Fates because of its tediously boring "break the ice" gimmick, while Chapter 22 was just very bland. One major thing I liked about Revelation's gameplay compared to Birthright's is that there is a diverse range of missions and not everything is just "Rout the Enemy" or "Defeat the boss." Other than that, most chapters felt meh at best, and most of the enemies also don't a diverse set of skills similar to Birthright.
I liked Revelation's story more than Conquest's story but less than Birthright's, but Revelation has issues some bad issues with its plot.
I thought the plot got pretty weak for the Valla portion of it. The Anthony arc was very poor since it was blatantly obvious he was going to backstab Corrin the moment he was introduced. The deaths of Sumeragi, Mikoto, and Arete weren't very moving since we barely got to know their characters, and the Gunter plot twist was ruined not only by the Chapter 18 cutscene, but also by removing all of his support conversations for that route. The fact he didn't have any supports made it obvious he was going to have a big moment later in the story. I'm guessing the reason his support conversations were removed was because they didn't want to create the awkward situation where you marry Gunter and then find out he had a family later in the game. Honestly, I think the best solution to keeping Gunter's supports to make the plot twist less obvious was by making him the only character you can't achieve an S-Support with (and I would also make this support change in Conquest as well).
We also never have any explanation for why Valla ended up being such a torn up land, and that issue comes from the lack of world-building (more on that later). Did Valla turn that way from Anankos' black hole attack, causing Valla, which might've once been located between Nohr and Hoshido because of the Bottomless Canyon in between the two kingdoms, to sink into it and split into a million pieces? That's my theory how Valla turned that way, but again, the game never tells us.
Being able to recruit all of the playable characters also felt very fan-fiction-like. To be honest, a part of me did feel a sense of satisfaction when gaining access to all the playable characters from Nohr and Hoshido because I didn't have to worry about any major character deaths...
(minus Scarlet of course, which I will also admit was pretty dumb)
.... not to mention I enjoyed pairing Nohrians with Hoshidans to see how their supports would play out.
Other: Some of my other qualms with Fates include Phoenix mode's inclusion and the children. I honestly think Casual is good enough for a beginner's experience; Phoenix mode was just pointless.
As for the children, they were simply shoe-horned into the game. I bet the developers thought, "Children units in this game would be pretty pointless since this isn't Awakening where time travel plays a big role, but you know what, let's just add them anyway to please the Awakening fans. Then, let's use the Deeprealms to justify their existence, even though it will probably look stupid." Most of the children characters are also very one-note in terms of disposition.
Admittedly, I found some of the children enjoyable. Shiro is hands down my favorite child character in Fates (as well as one of my favorite Fates' characters overall) for being very interesting overall. His personality is a contrast from his father, being laid-back instead of serious all the time. He also wants to become more skilled than his father because he feels rather insecure about inheriting the throne. Shiro is probably one of the few children where you really see how the Deep Realms affects his distant relationship with his parents, which makes him even more compelling. He's also a sociable and humorous character with plenty of great support conversations. In all, Shiro is my favorite child unit since he's generally the least one-note compared to the others.
I also enjoyed children characters such as Shigure, Kiragi, Siegbert, Forrest, Ophelia, Selkie, Velouria, Ignatius, and Nina. Of the children listed, I will admit some are pretty one note (namely Velouria, Selkie, Ophelia, and Nina) with only a few interesting supports, while the rest have a bit more personality to them and more interesting support conversations (Shigure, Kiragi, Forrest, Siegbert, and Ignatius). Many of the children even have some good support conversations with their parents; Kiragi and Nina are good examples. Kiragi and Takumi's supports further examines Takumi's insecurity issues while his son tries his best to improve him, while Nina and Niles' supports further explores the former's dislike for her father. At least the Heirs of Fate DLC fleshes out some of the characters more.
But even then, I think children should be removed for FE15 unless its plot has a good reason to bring them. I'd still leave the S-Supports, but don't have all of them end in marriage. Maybe, in some S-Supports, two characters will become much stronger friends.
As for some overarching story elements...
Most of the character deaths felt very forced. Kaze in Birthright, Flora, Scarlet in Revelation, and Lilith all come to mind. Kaze's death doesn't give you any warning in advance other than subtle foreshadowing in Chapter 7 when he tells Saizo "I owe Corrin my life." Flora, while she has the most interesting personality out of all the maids, had a pretty pointless death as well, and even Jakob states "what a terrible waste of life" after she dies. Yes, she did feel very insecure about herself and ashamed from her past choices that made her kill herself, but she could've had a much more meaningful death than that.
Then there's Lilith. Lilith's death was dumb because she become irrelevant to the plot after Chapter 6, so for her to come back only to be killed was really forced...
Lilith also dies in Conquest, and it's much dumber how it plays out there than in Birthright. Want to take a guess who kills Lilith in Conquest? Hans? Iago? Garon? A chapter boss? Nope, none of them. Who killed Lilith then?
A Faceless... Yes, let me repeat that... A Faceless kills Lilith in Conquest.
A generic enemy and the least threatening enemy unit you will face (according to Corrin in Birthright) kills someone for a "meaningful death." Having Lilith killed by a Faceless is like having Yoshi killed by a Goomba. Corrin's reaction following her death was also pretty stupid. He just stands there and starts crying, and there's another Faceless that just so happens to be coming after him, and the only reason Corrin survives the next one is because Xander arrives at the right moment to kill it.
In Birthright, at least Lilith dies to an actual antagonist, Hans (though he is disappointing as a villain), and instead of crying right away, Corrin picks up his sword and vows to kill Hans.
The best and well-played character death in all of Fire Emblem Fates has to be Elise's death. She is active in Birthright's story so that even if you haven't played Conquest, you still get to know her character and her death doesn't come out as forced. I'd rank Xander's death for the second most impactful death since he pretty much begins to realize all the mistakes he's that has culminated with accidentally murdering Elise, and while making Corrin fight despite going against Elise's wishes makes you question him, it then becomes clear that he wants Corrin to fight because he feels guilty for what he has done, and a part of him still clings on to honor that wants him to have someone else kill him rather than himself.
Xander and Elise's deaths was also the first time a video game made me cry in a very long time, though I felt more moved with Xander's death because of one part of the dialogue at one point when he brings up his favorite memory (and I tend to get emotional when memories are brought back right before death).
I'd rank Ryoma's death for the third best death in all of Fates since it captures the tense situation he is in yet he must stay true to his duties as a samurai and doesn't want Corrin to experience the pain of having to land the killing blow.
There's also the issue of a lack of world building, and one example is that the continent in Fates doesn't have a name.
I also think the games didn't need that much fan service, though I wouldn't be surprised if FE15 expands on them since that's what allows Intelligent Systems to make more money than they previously did.
On the plus side, I absolutely love the music, graphics, and art in Fates though. I even bought the original soundtrack when it was released three months ago, and I've been listening to the games' music nonstop throughout the summer. The graphics are an improvement from Awakening (especially now that all characters have feet in battle), and the character portraits look very nice.
Concluding thoughts: Despite its issues such as the writing and fan service, I still enjoyed Fire Emblem Fates a lot. The gameplay was a huge improvement from Awakening overall which made the games feel like a more satisfying challenge and more entertaining to play through, and the characters were still very enjoyable for the most part. I also enjoyed other elements such as the music, graphics, and the art direction.
I was about to post my thoughts, but you hit the nail on the head perfectly. The only thing I'd personally add is some critiques on Corrin and maybe a few more on Xander, Camilla and Revelations (especially the latter's unit balance).
He has flaws, but I felt that overall the game doesn't do enough to have him grow from them.
For instance, there's one point in the game where his naivety does get him in trouble, but that aspect is actually praised and the cast tells him to remain the same because they'll be there to pick up his messes.
****. Tried to take a nap and the phone rang like 5+ frigging times as I continued to fall asleep and wake up continuously. Why I didn't Smash that phone in a million pieces I don't know. Someone needs to snipe these telemarketers and do the world a huge solid.
****. Tried to take a nap and the phone rang like 5+ frigging times as I continued to fall asleep and wake up continuously. Why I didn't Smash that phone in a million pieces I don't know. Someone needs to snipe these telemarketers and do the world a huge solid.
Watch there be a level where you hear that Samus is able to assist them as She is out celebrating a special occasion for the night and "forbidden" to help, as they want her to relax or something.
Pretty straight forward boss fight...then again it is just one boss...
I'm just curious what sort of role Samus plays in this game, if she's going to be making random cameos like this...is she like supervising the Troopers or something?
Dude this is something that happens like 3-5 times a day in one day for the past 3 years. Before it used to be innocent with the telemarketers calling every couple of days once but now they have absolutely no shame in doing what they do.
Let me guess it's Air Duct Cleaning Services right? These people are the ****ing worst.
He has flaws, but I felt that overall the game doesn't do enough to have him grow from them.
For instance, there's one point in the game where his naivety does get him in trouble, but that aspect is actually praised and the cast tells him to remain the same because they'll be there to pick up his messes
Earlier the other characters were also telling Corrin to be cautious as well.
I guess they realised that that's a key part to Corrin later on but because he's meant to be me I just felt some major disconnect there.
Honestly if FE does another avatar character then they need dialogue options so we can actually shape our character a bit instead of having a character that probably isn't like most of the players.
....
Oh that's right.
Also I came across another glitch I forgot to bring up.
Feleng, the little cat thing.
When using Mankey against it...
It just...
Doesn't take its turn?
I hit it with a fighting move, and it just lets me go again.
Made the first gym a breeze I'll tell ya that much.
That part was silly.
Earlier the other characters were also telling Corrin to be cautious as well.
I guess they realised that that's a key part to Corrin later on but because he's meant to be me I just felt some major disconnect there.
Honestly if FE does another avatar character then they need dialogue options so we can actually shape our character a bit instead of having a character that probably isn't like most of the players.
Pretty straight forward boss fight...then again it is just one boss...
I'm just curious what sort of role Samus plays in this game, if she's going to be making random cameos like this...is she like supervising the Troopers or something?
Couldn't cultures be better preserved by making more museums and contributions to museums? Eventually cultures are going to erode whether they take a separatist stance on it or not, so it'd make a bigger impact to preserve what we have now than to try to protect it in vain from the inevitable in the future.
Sharing and mixing ideas from other places also sounds like a great way of bringing people together as a whole. Each group can see the benefit of the other's idea, and understanding can grow from it.
I guess people are just worried that what they value will lose it's meaning as too many people do it. Things with deep spiritual symbolism just become funny costumes people wear on the street or something. There's something to empathize with in that, but at the same time the world will keep turning without anyone's opinion. Old cultures have long fallen apart, left to either be nothing more than a wrinkle in the fingerprint of a changed society or turn to dust and be lost altogether. . .
I had thought of Slime before, more specifically Rocket. Due to his blobby body, his attacks would be somewhat limited. Then, inspiration struck: have him carry a Slime Knight! The Knight would handle most of the standards, while Rocket would be in charge of the Specials. Perhaps I'll organize a proper moveset one day.
EDIT: Wow, three whole pages failed to load while I typed this. Oops. Pretend this was aimed at Golden.
....
Oh that's right.
Also I came across another glitch I forgot to bring up.
Feleng, the little cat thing.
When using Mankey against it...
It just...
Doesn't take its turn?
I hit it with a fighting move, and it just lets me go again.
Made the first gym a breeze I'll tell ya that much.
This is a glitch with pokemon essentials/rpgmaker titles in general. It has no real fix and happens randomly. So if it does, appreciate the short time period of luck you get.
Anyway, I just caught a Shiny Virizon on Omega Ruby! Took between 400 and 500 resets if I were to estimate.
This is a glitch with pokemon essentials/rpgmaker titles in general. It has no real fix and happens randomly. So if it does, appreciate the short time period of luck you get.
Anyway, I just caught a Shiny Virizon on Omega Ruby! Took between 400 and 500 resets if I were to estimate.
They really did impress me with what they did with Crash. He still has that Skylanders style, but still looks like the classic Crash people loved. Unlike with Spyro who looks like a generic dragon.
