Social NintenZone Social 4 - Bring It In, Guys!

[ChikoLad]

I mean... It's a strategy game. If you don't memorize things you're hurting yourself.

...Strategy games shouldn't be about memorising the maps/memory in a trial and error way.

It's a feasible way to beat them, just like any game, but a good strategy game should not make memorisation the expected way to win. That's just bad level design/enemy unit balancing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hard != tedious/boring

I haven't had any difficulty issue with any of the 7 missions i've played (didn't bother with 8 when I saw it was another FoW)
One of the missions is so easy it literally can be one by just pressing forward and ignoring everything to kill ONE unit (Which is not a good thing btw)

The other 6 have just been slow or uninteresting, even with all animations turned off. Especially Mission 3 which is designed to be tedious for some reason.



I'm hoping this is just a slow start like a lot of RPG style games have, but I expected AW's mechanics to lead to not being very slow, instead of being one of the slowest i've ever played. So far the only one I gained any satisfaction one was 5(?) and even then you can just cheese it with a lander :/

It does get better as time goes on. As I said, you're barely into it.

That's because I expected a fair strategy game. Not a game in which I fight 50 professional boxers while my arm is yanked off. I get that making a comeback is supposed to be the point, but when I HAVE to capture a base with limited units, without being able to make any, in FoW, where enemies are scattered EVERYWHERE, it stops being strategy. It becomes luckbased and trial and error. I guess I should have known there were 6 enemies in the way I went beforehand when I first played

You remember terrain, right?

Use it. It'll solve that problem you're talking about.

...Strategy games shouldn't be about memorising the maps/memory in a trial and error way.

It's a feasible way to beat them, just like any game, but a good strategy game should not make memorisation the expected way to win. That's just bad level design/enemy unit balancing.

Thing is...

You really shouldn't have to memorize the maps.

Advance Wars has pretty simple map designs.

 

[Ura]

Memorization isn't always the way to win though. You guys are acting like this shiz isn't common with FE when you move your units a couple of spaces forward and some mage one-shots said unit.

Cutie Gwen is too casual for AW.


She wouldn't survive Dual Strike which is harder than the first or second GBA games.

She could probably beat Days of Ruin

FE fans always have to complain about AW for some reason (not everyone but it's something that bugs me). It's weird because AW fans like myself play FE easily and enjoy the game and yet when it's the other way around FE fans have to friggin complain about everything in the game. Maybe things would be easier if they had one unit to complete the map for them like they do in FE.

Also anyone that thinks AW is easy needs to play AW1's Hard Campaign and tell me it's easy.

 

[ChikoLad]

It does get better as time goes on. As I said, you're barely into it.


You remember terrain, right?

Use it. It'll solve that problem you're talking about.


Thing is...

You really shouldn't have to memorize the maps.

Advance Wars has pretty simple map designs.

You literally just said "you're only hurting yourself" if you don't memorise them, and now you say you shouldn't have to memorise them?

That's a complete contradiction. If you really don't have to memorise them, then that would imply it doesn't really hurt to not memorise them.

Memorization isn't always the way to win though. You guys are acting like this shiz isn't common with FE when you move your units a couple of spaces forward and some mage one-shots said unit.

FE fans always have to complain about AW for some reason (not everyone but it's something that bugs me). It's weird because AW fans like myself play FE easily and enjoy the game and yet when it's the other way around FE fans have to friggin complain about everything in the game. Maybe things would be easier if they had one unit to complete the map for them like they do in FE.

Also anyone that thinks AW is easy needs to play AW1's Hard Campaign and tell me it's easy.

Maybe the FE fans who played AW and disliked it just simply felt it wasn't to their tastes.

Who'd of thought it?

 

[RamOne]

Sorry, but having to memorize EVERYTHING AND getting screwed by Fog of War all the time isn't fun. Especially if you can't build units in said FoW missions

You can also choose the cheap way and play cowardly defensive.

I agree the FoW can be unfair, especially for first-time players. The AI sees everything, even mountains and reefs although in that case it can only attack when there's an unit next to it. It doesn't help half of the game is Fog of War if you want to unlock everything.

Also anyone that thinks AW is easy needs to play AW1's Hard Campaign and tell me it's easy.

Advance Campaign is the only thing that can make a level go from easy as pie to downright brutal (Kanbei's Error). I beat AC once by going the medium route and never looked back.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It does get better as time goes on. As I said, you're barely into it.


You remember terrain, right?

Use it. It'll solve that problem you're talking about.


Thing is...

You really shouldn't have to memorize the maps.

Advance Wars has pretty simple map designs.

Except that won't help me. Because I don't know where the enemies are, Nor can I really see where I'm going with FoW

Memorization isn't always the way to win though. You guys are acting like this shiz isn't common with FE when you move your units a couple of spaces forward and some mage one-shots said unit.

FE fans always have to complain about AW for some reason (not everyone but it's something that bugs me). It's weird because AW fans like myself play FE easily and enjoy the game and yet when it's the other way around FE fans have to friggin complain about everything in the game. Maybe things would be easier if they had one unit to complete the map for them like they do in FE.

Also anyone that thinks AW is easy needs to play AW1's Hard Campaign and tell me it's easy.

Oi. In FE, you don't 'have 1 unit to win' unless you abuse Seth or Ike. In FE7, I couldn't rely on a single unit. As Roy's your favourite Lord, you should know that's not the case. The problem is that all units have very specific traits, and in that damn chapter I was at, I had to capture the enemy base...With 2 Infantry units max. The reason why FoW is extra bull**** in AW is because unlike FE, you can't put your Knight in the lead to scout out and you don't have to constantly check fuel, ammo and others

 

[A Distant Demon]

It's weird because AW fans like myself play FE easily and enjoy the game and yet when it's the other way around FE fans have to friggin complain about everything in the game. .

You complain about FE/FE fans all the time. You do both in this post alone.

Don't start this.

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

This is a gold mine

Para ti. #AskSonic pic.twitter.com/lwFuY5gM1L

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) June 24, 2016

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Thanks, Mr. Owl. #AskSonic pic.twitter.com/lYdNn2RmFI

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) June 24, 2016

In case there was any doubt, it takes three licks to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie-Pop.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You can also choose the cheap way and play cowardly defensive.

I agree the FoW can be unfair, especially for first-time players. The AI sees everything, even mountains and reefs although in that case it can only attack when there's an unit next to it. It doesn't help half of the game is Fog of War if you want to unlock everything.



Advance Campaign is the only thing that can make a level go from easy as pie to downright brutal (Kanbei's Error). I beat AC once by going the medium route and never looked back.

But I couldn't do coward defence. The enemy wouldn't move at all, even if they did, the enemy had the 'Range +1' CO Power, meaning they could attack me, thereby crippling me, without letting me know where the **** the attack came from

 

[Deleted member]

My problems with AW are:
-Offensive play is favored, and while recently I have been enjoying going full Player Phase maniac in FE, AW resumes to who gets the first shot as you receive less and deal more damage when initiating the attack. I want to be able to switch my strategy according to the situation, not to be forced to do the same thing every single map
-It takes a lot of time to just kill one unit, Enemy Phase retaliation is not viable so you basically have to surround enemies and kill them one by one which goes against how the game wants you to play
-Specific units needed to beat certain ones. Geez, it sure is fun to have your two Mech units get killed making it impossible to kill those tanks
-Not really knowing how much damage you'll receive, you can see how much you'll deal(but that's not even accurate either) but you're going blind when trying to defend, another sign of how it favors offensive play

 

[ChikoLad]

.@Twitch All the love. #AskSonic pic.twitter.com/PQ4WE7kQPw

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) June 24, 2016

Spoiler

: "You probably don't even know what kappa means!"

DONE
O
N
E

 

[Schnee117]

It does get better as time goes on. As I said, you're barely into it.

This should never be an excuse for any game ever. If it hasn't gotten someone into it, by chapter 8 no less, then there's a problem.

 

[Wolfie557]

I just downloaded Smash Bros Crusade just to try all of the characters that haven't been in Smash or Smash Flash.
You know,just to get an idea. Then I'll likely delete it.

I'll give my thoughts later.

 

[Ura]

My mouse is not working properly so i'll be slow on responding.
-----

Memorization is only knowing how each units works and when to use said unit and where to build the unit. It's a tad bit more complicated than having to know the sword-axe-lance traid but it's not a really hard concept to grasp. A 9-year old me got it perfectly so IDK how it's complicated.

Advance Campaign is the only thing that can make a level go from easy as pie to downright brutal (Kanbei's Error). I beat AC once by going the medium route and never looked back.

This. There's some AW1 Hard Campaign missions that are just brutal to go through. Kanbei's Error is one of them and then there's some Green Earth missions that are just brutal. Than there's HC Rivals which is pretty much hell.

Except that won't help me. Because I don't know where the enemies are, Nor can I really see where I'm going with FoW

Oi. In FE, you don't 'have 1 unit to win' unless you abuse Seth or Ike. In FE7, I couldn't rely on a single unit. As Roy's your favourite Lord, you should know that's not the case. The problem is that all units have very specific traits, and in that damn chapter I was at, I had to capture the enemy base...With 2 Infantry units max. The reason why FoW is extra bull**** in AW is because unlike FE, you can't put your Knight in the lead to scout out and you don't have to constantly check fuel, ammo and others

Not just lords but other units as well. I could go through most of the late-FE7 chapters with Pent, Louise, and Jaffar. I wouldn't be able to get away with that in AW because my opponent will see through that and destroy me with a surprise counterattack.

Like I said before i'm not disputing AW's FoW cheapness VC CPU's but there's a way to effectively play around it by utilizing the woods and reefs. Also Recon units are basically what the Knight would do in AW with scouting the maps and stuff.

Going back to the units is knowing what to use at right time and it's not hard to grasp. You're not going to put a Mech against a Md. Tank or place a unit where your opponent is loaded with indirect units unless you can take said indirect units quickly.

This should never be an excuse for any game ever. If it hasn't gotten someone into it, by chapter 8 no less, then there's a problem.

FE Awakening says hi.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You literally just said "you're only hurting yourself" if you don't memorise them, and now you say you shouldn't have to memorise them?

That's a complete contradiction. If you really don't have to memorise them, then that would imply it doesn't really hurt to not memorise them.

I thought she meant mechanics and unit qualities.

Once I learned she meant maps then... well...

She didn't try then. I'm sorry. The maps are fairly straightforward. Even with FOW.

Except that won't help me. Because I don't know where the enemies are, Nor can I really see where I'm going with FoW

Mountains.

Use mountains.

You have infantry. Send them up the mountains. They aren't for combat. They're for scouting and strategizing.

Not only are they safe there but they'll get a good view of things.

This should never be an excuse for any game ever. If it hasn't gotten someone into it, by chapter 8 no less, then there's a problem.

But that's literally most games.


The difference between AW and FE is the level of creativity.

FE gives you several hundred options to deal with a situation.

AW wants you to figure out how to beat something with the tools you are given.

FE is about trying new tactics.

AW is about adapting to a situation.

Both are fun.

 

[ChikoLad]

Memorization is only knowing how each units works and when to use said unit and where to build the unit. It's a tad bit more complicated than having to know the sword-axe-lance traid but it's not a really hard concept to grasp. A 9-year old me got it perfectly so IDK how it's complicated.

I'd call that less memorisation and more an understanding of the core mechanics.

And you still have to do this stuff in Fire Emblem, BTW.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My problems with AW are:
-Offensive play is favored, and while recently I have been enjoying going full Player Phase maniac in FE, AW resumes to who gets the first shot as you receive less and deal more damage when initiating the attack. I want to be able to switch my strategy according to the situation, not to be forced to do the same thing every single map
-It takes a lot of time to just kill one unit, Enemy Phase retaliation is not viable so you basically have to surround enemies and kill them one by one which goes against how the game wants you to play
-Specific units needed to beat certain ones. Geez, it sure is fun to have your two Mech units get killed making it impossible to kill those tanks
-Not really knowing how much damage you'll receive, you can see how much you'll deal(but that's not even accurate either) but you're going blind when trying to defend, another sign of how it favors offensive play

tbh this reminds me of a 'player philosophy' in game design. Make it so the player can choose how they play at their own pace and strategy. When I replayed Awakening, I tried units out I didn't even use the first time, like Gaius or Tiki. Because I had the freedom to experiment, I could play how I wanted too. Pokemon lets me do this too, as I can use whatever team I want. Even no RPG games like Sonic or Metroid let me go at my own pace to try things out. AW doesn't let me do that because everything's got fixed stats depending on the type of unit

I thought she meant mechanics and unit qualities.

Once I learned she meant maps then... well...

She didn't try then. I'm sorry. The maps are fairly straightforward. Even with FOW.



Mountains.

Use mountains.

You have infantry. Send them up the mountains. They aren't for combat. They're for scouting and strategizing.

Not only are they safe there but they'll get a good view of things.


But that's literally most games.


The difference between AW and FE is the level of creativity.

FE gives you several hundred options to deal with a situation.

AW wants you to figure out how to beat something with the tools you are given.

FE is about trying new tactics.

AW is about adapting to a situation.

Both are fun.

I meant all of the above, and it doesn't mean FoW isn't cheap against someone new to AW
Yahtzee Croshaw's FFXIII review pretty much says what the problem is with 'you need to get used to it'. If I'm not entertained for quite a while, as I played Training too, why should I waste more of my precious free time playing a game I'm not enjoying?

 

[Ura]

You complain about FE/FE fans all the time. You do both in this post alone.

Don't start this.

Only the FE community and the overrepresentation in Smash Bros. Other than that I like the series for the most part.

I'd call that less memorisation and more an understanding of the core mechanics.

And you still have to do this stuff in Fire Emblem, BTW.

For sure. It's just a lot of people complain about knowing which units to use when i'm sitting here thinking to myself "just how is this a hard concept"?

FE certainly has it's difficulty and stuff but it's mostly knowing the triad and magic stuff.

@Zoroarking You're right about whoever getting the first hit getting the advantage in AW but in the pre-AW games it wasn't based on that much and it was both units attacking at the same time. If there's going to be future AW games I hope it goes back to both units attacking each other at the same time like before.

The difference between AW and FE is the level of creativity.

FE gives you several hundred options to deal with a situation.

AW wants you to figure out how to beat something with the tools you are given.

FE is about trying new tactics.

AW is about adapting to a situation.

Both are fun.

This. Not to mention AW gives you a map designer to make your own maps and it has multiplayer that FE doesn't have. Both series are great in there own ways and I can think of reasons for why both series are better in different aspects.

 

[A Distant Demon]

AW doesn't let me do that because everything's got fixed stats depending on the type of unit

That is more the genre's fault than AW itself though


Even then there are still some different ways to play some of the levels. Like not cheating chapter 5 and 8 seems like it has a few options as well.

 

[ChikoLad]

Someone not enjoying a game within the first few minutes/hour doesn't necessarily mean the game is bad, it just means it's probably not to their taste and it failed to do it's job for that particular person even if it does get better.

I mean a lot of people might give me **** for adoring a game like FFXIII, but that's because it grabbed me within the first hour. I totally understand if people don't like it, because it really does take nearly 30 hours to REALLY hit it's stride, but I enjoyed the first 30 so that's why I enjoyed the game, and it just got better for me when you get to Gran Pulse. If people aren't enjoying the first 2 or 3 hours though, they can't be expected to continue.

Only the FE community and the overrepresentation in Smash Bros. Other than that I like the series for the most part.

For sure. It's just a lot of people complain about knowing which units to use when i'm sitting here thinking to myself "just how is this a hard concept"?

FE certainly has it's difficulty and stuff but it's mostly knowing the triad and magic stuff.

@Zoroarking You're right about whoever getting the first hit getting the advantage in AW but in the pre-AW games it wasn't based on that much and it was both units attacking at the same time. If there's going to be future AW games I hope it goes back to both units attacking each other at the same time like before.

No, you still absolutely have to know how your units work in FE just like any other strategy game. The weapon triad doesn't dictate everything, not even close, especially when stuff like Dual weapons and Magic weapons exist, not to mention all of the skills that can make weapon advantages moot sometimes.

In fact, because FE allows you such robust customisation with your characters, you REALLY have to and should know how they work, because you should be molding them to what you want them to do for you.

 

[Ura]

Another thing that bothers me is when people call AW an SRPG when it's not. FE is, not AW. It's a strategy game though that's not saying your units don't mean anything because you're going to need them to gain advantage obviously.

No, you still absolutely have to know how your units work in FE just like any other strategy game. The weapon triad doesn't dictate everything, not even close, especially when stuff like Dual weapons and Magic weapons exist, not to mention all of the skills that can make weapon advantages moot sometimes.

In fact, because FE allows you such robust customisation with your characters, you REALLY have to and should know how they work, because you should be molding them to what you want them to do for you.

Yeah there's more to that of course but that's a big bulk of it. Obviously a Lvl 2 Lance unit is going to get beat by a Lvl 20 Sword unit. There's maneuvering your units in way that won't get them ambushed and stuff so if you though I meant that the triad was the only important thing then i'm sorry for making you believe that.

 

[Schnee117]

But that's literally most games.

Except most games get good before whatever it is they consider a "Chapter 8" happens. In the context of AW that's literally over one third of the way into the game. Games should get good before that point, especially if they're Strategy/RPG games because those tend to last awhile.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That is more the genre's fault than AW itself though


Even then there are still some different ways to play some of the levels. Like not cheating chapter 5 and 8 seems like it has a few options as well.

A friend of mine is a HUGE strategy game nut. From what I heard of him, you could play Civilization 5(?) any way you wanted. A different friend played Spore and played something similar. In both cases, they could do what they wanted and had enough freedom for multiple different strategies

 

[ChikoLad]

We know just what to do. #AskSonic pic.twitter.com/p5agAFjXaS

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) June 24, 2016

OK, now I'm really done, this is phenomenal.

 

[Ivander]

This. Not to mention AW gives you a map designer to make your own maps and it has multiplayer that FE doesn't have. Both series are great in there own ways and I can think of reasons for why both series are better in different aspects.

I'd like to point out that some FE games do have multiplayer, like the GBA games. Heck, Fates, the latest one, also has multiplayer and online multiplayer. And yes, I do mean actual multiplayer and not what Awakening did with Streetpass with the 2nd team being played by the AI.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I meant all of the above, and it doesn't mean FoW isn't cheap against someone new to AW

I played AW for the first time a year ago and beat it in two days.

It's actually easier than the FE games I've played because I don't have to worry about permadeath.

why should I waste more of my precious free time playing a game I'm not enjoying?

My issue wasn't that you weren't enjoying it or that you should continue playing it.

It's that your criticism miss some things.

A friend of mine is a HUGE strategy game nut. From what I heard of him, you could play Civilization 5(?) any way you wanted. A different friend played Spore and played something similar. In both cases, they could do what they wanted and had enough freedom for multiple different strategies

Thing is, you have options for AW too.

It's not that rigid.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'd like to point out that some FE games do have multiplayer, like the GBA games. Heck, Fates, the latest one, also has multiplayer and online multiplayer. And yes, I do mean actual multiplayer and not what Awakening did with Streetpass with the 2nd team being played by the AI.

Shadow Dragon on the DS also had online multiplayer, I hear, which is basically where they got the idea from for Fates.

 

[Ura]

I'd like to point out that some FE games do have multiplayer, like the GBA games. Heck, Fates, the latest one, also has multiplayer and online multiplayer. And yes, I do mean actual multiplayer and not what Awakening did with Streetpass with the 2nd team being played by the AI.

My bad I meant like really good multiplayer. It's a lot easier and fun with AW with being able to create a Map, choose your CO, and then getting right in to the action which is quick and fun. More efficient really and can be done with one GBA.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I played AW for the first time a year ago and beat it in two days.

It's actually easier than the FE games I've played because I don't have to worry about permadeath.


My issue wasn't that you weren't enjoying it or that you should continue playing it.

It's that your criticism miss some things.


Thing is, you have options for AW too.

It's not that rigid.

My options in AW are 1: Destroy all enemies (which wasn't an option on that map because of the high amount of powerful enemies) or capture the base
I should be allowed to give criticism based on my experience. However, I'll gladly admit AW isn't my boon, it HAD to be critically acclaimed for a reason, yet it just lost me

 

[ChikoLad]

It's only natural. #AskSonic pic.twitter.com/NfT8WtU5Dr

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) June 24, 2016

I can already hear the salt flowing.

 

[Ura]

My options in AW are 1: Destroy all enemies (which wasn't an option on that map because of the high amount of powerful enemies) or capture the base
I should be allowed to give criticism based on my experience. However, I'll gladly admit AW isn't my boon, it HAD to be critically acclaimed for a reason, yet it just lost me

That's fair. Personally I wasn't able to get in to Metroid, Splatoon, Animal Crossing, and Pikmin even though they're most likely great games with the critical acclaim they get.

It's only natural. #AskSonic pic.twitter.com/NfT8WtU5Dr

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) June 24, 2016

I can already hear the salt flowing.

Savage yo.

I bet this is Capcom when they see people asking for MML3.

 

[A Distant Demon]

A friend of mine is a HUGE strategy game nut. From what I heard of him, you could play Civilization 5(?) any way you wanted. A different friend played Spore and played something similar. In both cases, they could do what they wanted and had enough freedom for multiple different strategies

Civ 5 is game DESIGNED for infinte decisions. That's the point

Multiple playable civs, multiple win conditions, multiple units.

Civ isn't AW


Spore is a game where you design a monster

Spore has like. . .0 similarities to AW. At all.



That still isn't bad for AW. And EVEN THEN. 8 missions in there probably still isn't a lot of diversity yet. While I can't make any promises because im not far but I wouldnt be surprised if more ways to play show up the more you play.

 

[ChikoLad]

COBI FOUND HIS DAD

HIS NAME IS IVO ROBOTNIK

Great question! We've got one for you. #AskSonic pic.twitter.com/6yhg5DP3wv

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) June 24, 2016

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Civ 5 is game DESIGNED for infinte decisions. That's the point

Multiple playable civs, multiple win conditions, multiple units.

Civ isn't AW


Spore is a game where you design a monster

Spore has like. . .0 similarities to AW. At all.



That still isn't bad for AW. And EVEN THEN. 8 missions in there probably still isn't a lot of diversity yet. While I can't make any promises because im not far but I wouldnt be surprised if more ways to play show up the more you play.

Spore has multiple phases actually, phase 4 was the strategy game phase iirc

I got to 8 missions and beat everything the training mode had to offer. I think I know if it's my kind of game or not by then

 

[Swamp Sensei]

My options in AW are 1: Destroy all enemies (which wasn't an option on that map because of the high amount of powerful enemies) or capture the base

No.

Those are your goals.

Your options are how you choose to accomplish those goals.

I should be allowed to give criticism based on my experience.

I know.

But I can criticize your criticism too.

After all, this thread does that a lot.

However, I'll gladly admit AW isn't my boon, it HAD to be critically acclaimed for a reason, yet it just lost me

Hey. I mean. That's Animal Crossing for me.

It's the most boring series I've ever played but I know others like it.

 

[Ura]

Since we're talking AW here I thought I would mention that i'm going to have an article up on Source Gaming not too long from now that's AW related. I think you guys will like it even if you're not AW fans.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

OH BOY! CHRISTMAS CAME EARLY!

 

[Soul.]

these Sonic tweets lmao

Hope the next game is as hilarious as this.

 

[Ura]

For all the hype this game is getting I would assume this game will blow expectations out of the park.