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Nintendo, please think through your games

hichiriki

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
3
Hey everyone, know that this is more of a constructive critique than meaningless complaining. I am looking through this dojo site for brawl and seeing more and more how this game, while improving on melee in a number of ways, seems to be falling short in a few ways.

Why, oh why for instance do we care to collect stickers?? honestly, the trophies i guess were kinda interesting in melee b/c they gave a little background to the character or item. Part of smash brothers titles has been this sort of "cross over" theme like the flintstones meets the jetsons, where pokemon meets mario mets retro nintendo, you know what I mean. So sure, have some retro stuff in the form of trophies, maybe a couple characters (no more game and watch please). Honestly though, and i'm sure this goes for a number of smash players out there besides myself; it boils down to the fun that you have with your friends. That is the heart and soul of smash bros!

Instead of getting excited that oh, you can enter you name through cell phone! ........ continue on that proper train of thought that will allows us to personalize a profile lets say. One of the other keys to SB is that while it is a multiplayer powerhouse it is also very personal. How many of you out there have favorite characters? How many would like to "own" those favorite characters more, for instance, have players keep a full fledged profile, including the ability to add or remove their best characters (character coloralso being preserved) , perhaps choose from an extensive list or be able to create their own insigna's! It should keep the battle record system as before, noting wins against other profiles. Something like this, should be worked more extensively into the fabric of the game, not just choosing a name.

Characters...Now, i'll say right of the bat, i've yet to design a video game, so i'm more of a fan at baseball game making sugestions the coach how to run his team. Maybe it's memory limitations, but why oh why does there have to be these ebb and flows with character selection. Could nintendo not work something out like other systems and enable us to save character data (sprites, animations whatever) to a memory card or something enabling the play of a host of characters?
In melee for instance, why not make master hand, hig ugly twin, and gigabowser available?

Second, I pray that half of the character line up is;n't stocked with parallels. No more wasting the precious few character slots that they give us with....pichu....AND pikachu, mario AND dr. mario, gannondorft should have been his own character not, a hair's difference of variation of captain falcon!

ALright thats enough for now, again, i'm just frustrated with nintendo a bit seeing as they have yet to really deliver on the Wii as a powerhouse system. Maybe you agree with me, maybe not, but the motion sensor thing has yet to relaly be utilized as seemlessly as they have been bragging in a quality game (save for metroid, and even then its little more than a shooter). Smash brothers has just grown in reputation and fun over the years. God knows if there will be anymore sequels, I just want them to not ruin what has become nintendo's halo.

-H
 

Fabiano

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
136
Location
The Netherlands
Stickers are just a fun addition, Giga Bowser ís playable, Master/Crazy hand aren't going to be playable, you can't knock 'em off.
Clones are not returning.
And what the hell are you talking about Nintendo ruining their own games?
Brawl is going to be bigger, better, and more fun.
You fail, sir.
 

Spellman

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
623
Location
Brickway
Halo isn't a bad series, it just builds on what everybody loves about the first and made it into what it is today. Not a whole lot different gameplay style, but technically speaking, Halo 3 is smoother and has a better or more complex online system.

As long as Brawl is building on what I love, I think we'll all get through this O.K.

edit: oh and they didn't remove the trophy system by the way.
 

5@/\/\U5

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 30, 2005
Messages
152
1. Your concerns are either petty, trite, unconfirmed, or already eliminated

2. You're frustrated that a console that is not even a year old hasn't yet peaked in terms of control interface and innovation

I have that right? You're clearly an early adopter. DEAL WITH IT. also, there are other potential issues that should concern you much more than what you've mentioned. Also, Nintendo DOES think through their games, while balancing it with a healthy profit structure (focus still moreso on the game though). They aren't the second largest Japanese company for no reason.
 

Zant3tsuken

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 21, 2004
Messages
351
Location
Melbourne, Aus
I don't think you quite understand time vs value reward for developers implementing different things. Most people don't like stickers, but this is a very simple and time efficient way to extend the single player experience. Clones such as Gannondorf too, are time saving exercises as making the character would've been much faster than a new one from scratch. Having him as a clone is better than not having him at all. Also consider Fox and Falco for a second. Imagine if Falco wasn't in the game or was something very different now. Fox players would be in plague proportions. Clones aren't necessarily a bad thing.

Custom characters I'd say detract from the game. Honestly watch people play custom characters in Soul Calibur 3 takes a lot of personality away from the game, and in all honesty it would most likely be broken for balance reasons. In your example of Giga Bowser or the Master Hands, I believe you could unlock with with Gameshark. From what I've seen on youtube the master hands were never designed to be used in any way outside of classic mode and that much should be obvious.

As for personalisation, I do agree that it would be cool if selecting your profile would choose your character and colour in addition to your control scheme. Other than that I'm hoping that the game keeps a comprehensive record of characters you've used and win rates versus other profiles and their characters. Optimistic, but we shall see.
 

G&Wismyhomeboy

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
70
If this is a constructive critique rather than meaningless complaining, why post here? These aren't Nintendo's boards.

And how dare you say that G&W does not deserve to return in Melee?:chuckle:
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
I hate people like this. Brawl will be awesome. Nintendo is one of the few companies that actually cares about its fans...
 

Mama

Smash Ace
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
776
Location
Richmond California (northern)
Stickers are just a fun addition, Giga Bowser ís playable, Master/Crazy hand aren't going to be playable, you can't knock 'em off.
Clones are not returning.
And what the hell are you talking about Nintendo ruining their own games?
Brawl is going to be bigger, better, and more fun.
You fail, sir.
QFT. Also Sakurai is no longer with Nintendo.

Some characters are not meant to be playable. Why would you want to play Master hand? I don't understand why you think that every single thing in the game such as stickers, needs to have some sort of big purpose. Games are supposed to be fun. The sticker thing is simply an optional fun way to waste time if you're into that sort of thing.

Your first post has failed. I think you should delete your account and start over because you definitely have a bad rep now.

Also complaining about Nintendo not yet delivering on the Wii with motion sensing on this forum doesn't make any sense seeing as how the people here prefer Smash to not use it. And sense when was the Wii ever a powerhouse??? You simply fail sir. You win at failing very bad...
 

GaryCXJk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Messages
1,809
Hey everyone, know that this is more of a constructive critique than meaningless complaining.
I will now show you, in the typical "wiseguy" post, how this statement is false.

Why, oh why for instance do we care to collect stickers??
Well, there you have it. You don't HAVE to collect stickers, they're just a fun addition to the game. If you want, you can just collect CDs or even trophies if you want. Talking about trophies:

honestly, the trophies i guess were kinda interesting in melee b/c they gave a little background to the character or item.
Here you're implying that trophies haven't returned, yet they did. So, like I said, why would you bother about stickers if you don't care about stickers, and come up with the trophy argument while you in fact can collect trophies?

So sure, have some retro stuff in the form of trophies, maybe a couple characters (no more game and watch please).
Okay, one moment you talk about the retro cross-over, yet you trash Game & Watch? Game & Watch IS part of Nintendo, whether you like it or not.

Honestly though, and i'm sure this goes for a number of smash players out there besides myself; it boils down to the fun that you have with your friends. That is the heart and soul of smash bros!
Why bring out this comment while we all know that Brawl is going to be fun? Do you think stickers take away the fun in the game?

Instead of getting excited that oh, you can enter you name through cell phone! ........ continue on that proper train of thought that will allows us to personalize a profile lets say. One of the other keys to SB is that while it is a multiplayer powerhouse it is also very personal. How many of you out there have favorite characters? How many would like to "own" those favorite characters more, for instance, have players keep a full fledged profile, including the ability to add or remove their best characters (character coloralso being preserved) , perhaps choose from an extensive list or be able to create their own insigna's! It should keep the battle record system as before, noting wins against other profiles. Something like this, should be worked more extensively into the fabric of the game, not just choosing a name.
And what makes you think this will not happen? And I do think the first line is a bit out of text. It just didn't belong there in the first place. It makes you less credible in the long run, especially when you state you are not simply complaining.

And further more, you are talking about Smash being about fun, while you want extensive customization? Isn't Brawl about the game itself, rather than just boasting about your achievements?

Characters...Now, i'll say right of the bat, i've yet to design a video game, so i'm more of a fan at baseball game making sugestions the coach how to run his team. Maybe it's memory limitations, but why oh why does there have to be these ebb and flows with character selection. Could nintendo not work something out like other systems and enable us to save character data (sprites, animations whatever) to a memory card or something enabling the play of a host of characters?
Couldn't Capcom add the ability to have more characters, or DOA? This is a fighting game. Adding a new character could just disrupt the balance of the game.

In melee for instance, why not make master hand, hig ugly twin, and gigabowser available?
First of all, they, as stand-alone character, are just too unbalanced. The hands never even fall off. Giga Bowser is just as heavy as metal, and as strong as someone with a Super Mushroom. It just doesn't work. Second, Giga Bowser now is playable as a Final Smash.

Second, I pray that half of the character line up is;n't stocked with parallels. No more wasting the precious few character slots that they give us with....pichu....AND pikachu, mario AND dr. mario, gannondorft should have been his own character not, a hair's difference of variation of captain falcon!
Why even worry about clone characters?

Seriously, your pessimistic view just annoys me. And I bet everybody else feels the same. Smash will NOT be ruined.
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
Location
Hinckley, Minnesota
NNID
boundless_light
1. Your concerns are either petty, trite, unconfirmed, or already eliminated

2. You're frustrated that a console that is not even a year old hasn't yet peaked in terms of control interface and innovation

I have that right? You're clearly an early adopter. DEAL WITH IT. also, there are other potential issues that should concern you much more than what you've mentioned. Also, Nintendo DOES think through their games, while balancing it with a healthy profit structure (focus still moreso on the game though). They aren't the second largest Japanese company for no reason.
Ding, ding, ding! Looks like we have a winner, folks.

QFT.

Smooth Criminal
 

mrbiz

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
17
In melee under data there was actually the option to see all your records for each name. So one can safely presume it will be in brawl.
 

Titan05

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
290
Location
UTSA
Constructive? Really?
I have a feeling your a pretty big Halo fan seeing as a suggestion or two of yours are features incorporated (spl) in H3. These ideas may have worked for H3, however, the ideals behind H3 aren't what SSB has ever been about. So no. Sorry. Bad idea.
They've already mentioned getting rid of clones. (for better or worse)
How dare you diss G&W?? He may not have been a top tier character but it was still fun to play as him and thats what SSB is about. Fun. So leave poor G&W alone!
Do you complain about not being able to use bosses as PC in other games too? Its a balancing issue.

On the other hand, at least you had noble intentions.
 

Lemon Drop

Smash Lord
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
1,286
Location
KY, USA
Clearly complaining to a people that have no connections to the development of games will change this.
 

Taymond

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
494
Location
UIUC/Chicago South Suburbs
These are really... absolutely terrible ideas.

Yes, you're right. Smash IS a crossover game. It's a union between American and Japanese audiences, and is a real opportunity for Nintendo to offer its American market many game titles that it previously completely lacked interest in. How many American players were familiar with Earthbound or Fire Emblem before smash? A fair amount, I'm sure, but nowhere near the majority. Smash is as much a marketing tool to stir up interest in other titles as it is its own title.

Moreover, it's an opportunity for Nintendo to draw upon the most obscure pieces of their history, pieces they are proud of. The stepping stone titles and characters that helped build the very foundation of their company now are offered a redeeming cameo on equal playing ground with the modern heroes. They have an opportunity to create something really unique and special and collaborative in Smash. I HOPE there are characters I'm wildly unfamiliar with. I don't want nothing but predictable American titles.

Secondly, Smash has enormous depth, and Brawl will have much more depth in plot than either of the previous games. The single player in Brawl is going to be a real accomplishment, a real effort on part of the developers. Sure, Smash is, inevitably, about playing against real opponents. it's about vs. Melee. But just how one-dimentional do you expect Nintendo to be? This game is going to be incredibly broad in its audience and in its general playability, and that's GREAT! Hunting down every last trophy kept gamers busy for years, and likewise, that same sense of completion will have gamers occasionally spending time hunting down every sticker or CD or trophy in Brawl. Brawl will be even more endlessly playable than Melee. The stickers were a fine idea, a very simple, easy way to push the single player playability slightly further.

Thirdly.. *sigh..* It will NOT be a good idea to have random downloadable characters, or custom characters, or whatever else along those lines you can think of. A lot of care goes into designing a well-balanced game here, which is made much more complicated with the larger number of characters playable in Brawl. It's difficult to say now that some characters won't suffer in terms of actual practicality , and become more gimmick than merit. If we start adding characters willy-nilly, i can guarantee you that some of them.. will in essence, become jokes. Is that really what you want? A bunch of admittedly-worthless thrown-together characters? Creating new characters is not a matter of swapping sprites. Smash's characters are unique and individual in so many ways. They have very different, extensive movesets, as well as internal characteristics that vary from character to character. What games do you allude to that enable so carefree design of new characters? Did these new characters require entirely independent, careful, and unique consideration? Or were they in essence, just a palatte swap. Because palatte swaps.. are not the governing difference between characters in smash.

Lastly, to address the Wii itself. The Wii is not, as you put it, a powerhouse system. Nintendo had a choice when they were designing their next-gen system. They could go for extreme hardware advances, like Xbox 360 and PS3 were inevitably doing, or they could gamble on this gimmick. Nintendo has always been a company more about young gamers, entertainment for children, and their decision with the Wii was understandable. Wii cannot compete with the other next-gen systems in terms of hardware. The new technology in the Wii went towards developing the terrific motion-sensing techology they employ, rather than increasing hardware capacity.

Idunno, man.. idunno.
 

hichiriki

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
3
Realization and apologies

Hey smash community, first of all let me apologize. You're correct, the post turned out to be no more than the trite, whining, criticism I had said it would not be. I do not feel that I got my views across in a clear and polite manner. To be honest I had sorta gotten out of bed, was browsing through the Dojo site, and decided to post my thoughts on a discussion board. Aside from being relatively incoherent, I also came across as being quite rude. My apologies to the game and watch fans. I clearly was narrow minded in my thought process as what began as a well intentioned expression of positive critique spiraled into a rant, full of ignorant sounding, wide sweeping statements. I also see that while I didn't effectively express my perspective on how I think brawl should look, I had gotten so caught up in myself I forgot that smash brothers means many things to other fans; some that overlap with my own experiences, and some that are different. Thanks for the reality check.

Just to clear up a couple things on my views:
1. game and watch, a nice retro reminder, didn't really like him as a char thats all, if you think differently, thats fine

2. master hand and giga bowser. Playability for them yes would be an extreme challenge against other players, perhaps an HP system vs percentage/ring out could be fun? For those of us who play our own "mini games"/stupid/fun scenarios with friends, i guess is what I was trying to say is that the option is always nice.

3. Wii as a system. Yes, I am expressing an opinion, not as an economic analyst, a game developer, or a "hard core" gamer. Something i'm entitled to. However, You are right in saying that I was expecting apples when nintendo makes oranges. A high performance system like PS3 and 360 with games that cater to mature in addition to kid oriented games. nintendo has chosen a wise path under the mountain, targeting audiences that are largely unreached while the giants battle to be king of the hill.

4. Extra features like stickers. I did not mean to say that the shouldn't exist, rather in my failure to keep into account that the game is not yet finished, I became concerned that they would focus more on (what seem to me as ) extraneous features rather than things that matter to my usual smash experience. Again, I remember and acknowledge that people have differing experiences and tastes.

5. Indeed, mirror characters offer diversity and thus increased personalization to the experience.

6. Finally, testament that the original post was merely a hot headed response to as of yet unconfirmed and near unwarranted fears, I hastily posted in this community where the possibility that these suggestions would be heard by someone who could actually affect game direction in this point of development is virtually nil.

So once again, sorry about the hasty post, the resulting impoliteness and generally pessimistic view. reading it again, i can see why many were upset.

Apologies,
-H
 
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