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E3 was a nail in the coffin. They hyped it and the only Hardcore Title there was Call of Duty 5. They even manage to mess that one up by doing
You think I'm being this old crochety man yelling "Get off my lawn ya **** kids" because I don't think Nintendo is going for the money instead of the hardcore? Oh NOOOO. I saw this "decline" too. I saw the PR being laughable, Nintendo's list looking short for this year, among other things. You can rant about dropping difficulty all you want, I'm right there with you. But for the love of chaos, don't get bent out of shape at Nintendo's audience. It smells so heavily of "THEY TOOK OUR JOBS" when crying about immigrants and spreading hate on people giving money is just as stupid and melodramatic as people picking fights with immigrants. Hate the policy, not the people.
Maybe because they thought it was good? Nintendo knows they screwed up. I'm not asking for you to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm asking you not to perceive hatred and backstabbing where there was only stupidity. Occam's Razor?
Nostalgia is a cruel mistress. Watching things change for the worse can be painful--I was there when Sonic's fandom became flooded with misguided younguns and "casuals" that only played anything up until 1994, and Sonic Team decided to make a separate division that proved to churn out mediocre stuff (Sonic Team USA). I was there when platformers got knocked out of the genre of choice and replaced by the FPS (which isn't as bad as sports or a personal nightmare as SRPGs). But the past is gone. Appreciate and don't forget it, but don't get stuck back there and let it cloud today's judgment. Unlike Sonic's failbase, Wii's casual fans aren't "looting your stuff" or "making you irrelevant". What's with this completely pointless hatred against them? Why are you whining about people catering to more than you?
I don't hate casuals. I just dislike them for coming into the videogame world and expecting everything to be easy. It reminds me of when Britain and many other countries went and took over other countries. They complained on the countries living styles and how they were. So you just took over a country and know you complain? It's mostly Nintendo's fault for only catering them. That's what bugs me...
Nintendo has been a videogame company for a long time. They should know the difference between good and bad. Then they have people like Reggie who continually say that they have done the best they could to give us hardcore games and that those games should quench our thirst. Really, does he even know anything about the gaming world...I wouldn't be surprised if he was one of the major people who made the whole "easier games" concept.
Agreed. I was there to. It seems as if almost everything went wrong when they gaming industry went 3-D. Sure we got a lot of good things like smash and the super Mario series but then totally ruining there concept to make them "easier" and more "accessible" is what bothers me. We haven't hit a new "era" in the gaming industry. Sure things are changing to make it seem like we are more "in the game" but ruining everything to adapt a new concept is a bit terrible.
Good Luck. I hope you and other core gamers can turn us back to what we want but still keep on leading us forward. Nintendo, may have wanted to do that but they missed the first half by a long shot. I'm fine with my DS. It provides the old school/ new game mix as well as causal/core mix. Wii hasn't been the same from Nintendo and 3rd parties. Nintendo in a way shut one door and opened another with this new "advancing". Why not keep both open?
Trust me, me and a few others will surely read this
.We don't try to whine over stupid things. It's just that they are doing exactly what your saying. Making core games easy. Well I hope you take the time to read this and understand our side.
But I just can't accept the present, when Nintendo made so many great games before. And let's face it, the hardcore gamers basically ARE irrelevant to Nintendo now. The casual gamers are their main customers now, and if every hardcore gamer in the world stopped playing their games, I'm sure they'd still be perfectly in business. I honestly am a little upset at the casuals, but it is really mostly at the policies that Nintendo has with catering to the casuals. Truth is that, obviously, if Nintendo would stop catering to them, I could care less what they do. So you're right, it's pointless to hate the casuals.
See, the thing is, I've experienced...not much improvement in that category. People respect games, but only Wii games. I find that the real video games, especially those of the past from SNES/Genesis, are still regarded as only the type of games that geeks would like. The only respect I see games getting are respect for things like Wii Sports and such. Which is better than nothing, but it doesn't help me because I don't like those games very much, or at all, really.
Don't worry; I may disagree with you, but unless you're completely irrational and flaming me (which you're not), I certainly won't ignore you, and I certainly don't regard what you said as irrelevant. I just disagree with some of it.
Uhm yes...we've established that.
Yeah. I probably should've made that clearer. I meant the core gamers. Obviously if no one played their games anymore they'd go bankrupt sooner or later. Most likely sooner.Firus, "if every gamer in the world stopped playing their games, I'm sure they'd still be perfectly in business."
This is reffering to core gamers correct? Because if everyone stopped playing their games they would indeed go out of business
Not Market Gaming. This is looking like the end of Hardcore gaming.Next Gen Microsoft and Sony are following pursuit and will casual up their core Franchises while keeping M on the ERSB rating. Must be the music im listing to though.
Yes, but Nintendo was pretty much the only company that still made really good, true video games. Microsoft and Sony just haven't captured what Nintendo used to have, in my opinion. And I think the DS is as downhill as the Wii is.
Quoted for truth.
I'd have to agree. Honestly, I can't tell which games are "Microsoft" or "Sony" 1st party titles (except Halo). To me, the 360 and PS3 are just totally supported by 3rd-party games, as their "core" franchises aren't consistent at all. It's just a bunch of random games created to mesh in with all of the other billizanious shooters and what not.
Lets just say that Star Wars Pod Racing helps alot XD. And after the 10th 1st place on Rainbow road no one wanted to play with me in due with fear 
You mention inconsistent core franchises and don't really see what you mean by that. Of course there are going to be titles coming from Microsoft and Sony that they intend to be full fledged franchises, but if they don't sell, bam, no franchise. Off the top of my head, I'd consider Halo, Fable, Forza and Project Gotham Racing to be the established Xbox franchises. The Playstation, off the top of my head again, God of War, Gran Turismo, Ratchet & Clank, Killzone, SOCOM. They're a lot different than Nintendo's franchises, and none of them are nearly as recognizable as Nintendo's, Halo being an exception. Each platform is expanding their exclusive franchises though with titles like Gears of War, Motorstorm, Banjo Kazooie, Viva Pinata, LittleBigPlanet and more. Sony and Microsoft both realize they need household friendly mascots, and they're both working to have them.
Second parties are hard to come by these days, and in the not so distant past, Nintendo relied on them as well. Rare and Silicon Knights were both Nintendo second parties, and now Rare is a division of Microsoft and Silicon Knights is a second party to Microsoft. Silicon Knights can develop for whoever they want, but for some reason they're currently settled on the Xbox 360. Sony and Microsoft both own a lot of in-house studios, but unlike Nintendo, they often go by different names. Microsoft has got Rare, Turn10, Lionhead, Ensemble, (and more) and Sony's got Guerilla Games, Evolution Studios, and several other in-house studios with "SCE" in front of a location, such as London. Each company has plenty of first party studios and from them, plenty of first party games.Darkslash said:
They most certainly do have established first-party franchises, I just can't see them lasting too long. Halo, maybe. Rachet and Clank, probably. But, Viva Pinata? You're already seeing a DS version of that being released later this year. Gears of War is cool, but it's doubtful as to how long they could milk that exact same concept (God of War being the same way) without innovating into new territory--who knows though, they could do it. Racing game franchises are easy to establish, just like any sports game. All it really takes is an incremental upgrade every few years and--boom--you've got yourself a legacy. First-part racing games generally fall above the crap level, but I still have trouble seeing it as much of an accomplishment.
Nintendo still has a good amount of Second-Party studios (Retro Studios, Camelot Software Planning, Game Freak, HAL Laboratory, Grasshopper Manufacture, AlphaDream, among others), and those come and go so much as it is that it's hard to say that anyone HAS one at all. Second-Party studios are generally smaller studios contracted out by a publisher for game development, they don't make games on their own then sell them out. Nintendo, ironically enough, still owns a large deal of stock in Silicon Knights and the developer has expressed interest in a possible Wii game.
Every topic has a statistical possibility of becoming a console war topic in ~3.8 posts.
The same can be said about Nintendo's franchises, most of which are older than Sonys and MS' franchises.
The grass isn't really that green. There's an overabundance of the same type of games, and responses from the console manufacturers about problems take just as long. Most of the games are sub-20 hours and can be beaten by a learning disabled chicken, they just LOOK harder because there's a layer of grime and bump-mapping covering everything. And that doesn't even start to mention the multitudes of different SKUs....
That's basically the point I was making. Minus the Nintendo, the point is, if it's a good game, and the sequel is a good game, and the spin offs are fun to play, then you've got franchise with longevity, just because Microsoft and Sony franchises haven't been around as long as Final Fantasy doesn't mean it can't happen.
You just cant tell until time has passed.
Totally true. Who knows? We could be playing God of War 94 in 2100. I was just saying that there seems to be fewer places to go creatively with alot of the other first party franchises then there are with Nintendo ones.
Exactly. Nintendo aren't stupid, of course they are still working on titles for the classic franchises, but do you have any idea how long it takes to make a good quality game? They can't just pop them out like a casual game as soon as people want it. They simply didn't feel that they were far enough along in development to show them off yet...and in the meantime, while their core development teams are hard at work making the games that you folks are whining for, they have other teams working on casual games with shorter production cycles to keep revenue coming in until they are ready to release the next installments of the games for the hungry hardcore.
This is why every one is upset. Not because we didn't see Zelda or Pikmin. Its because E3 reflects Holiday 2008 and early 2009. If this is all they are giving us, Casual shovel ware, do you think we are going to be happy? Of Course not. Plus they hype up E3 by saying
Thats going to hype alot of people. Only franchise they mentioned is Animal Crossing and its not even core, nor needed maximizing.
Yeah. And just like every other person claiming that anyone with a problem with Nintendo must be some stupid idiotic 5 year-old who doesn't understand this, you're missing the point. No one is focused on E3. No ones is complaining because we're not getting a hardcore game fast enough. It's because we haven't gotten a hardcore game yet because those hardcore franchises? Got dumbed down.
I know that it's sad that Nintendo's development house seems to be getting sketchier and sketchier as time goes on, with a newfound focus potentially distracting them. But there are most certainly going to be good games for the Wii before the end of the year--the thing is, they're not going to be first party games. Third-party gaming is where it might end up being at on the Wii (just like every other major console), so I think it's where the Wii community should turn their attention.
The thought of 3rd party games on wii makes me happy but a bit scared of what might happen. Most 3rd parties don't care about the wiis reputation and repeatedly send out party games (some which are good, others which are not needed). We finally have a wave of action/shooter games (It may be small but it's a start). The thought of them further ruining the wiis rep for bad shooters would likely leed to even less 3rd party development (other then the usual). They could turn it around and be a "good" or above average game that might show other 3rd parties of wii's capabilities (like how RE:4 showed). I'm not extremly upset about no 1st parties but only if the 3rd party games are good.
There is no certainty at all that any of the 3rd party games that are currently being anticipated will be any good, but they're definitely giving off the vibe currently that they're going to be more than above-average experiences--and there's quite a few of them that appear that way.
Lol, I don't think it'll be quite that dramatic, but a lot certainly is riding on the Conduit. Everybody needs to buy two copies, even if it sucks. I know I will.
Well then, that was a $250 well spent.
I just think there are alot of reasons other than Nintendo games to get a Nintendo system. It's a biggun as far as reasons go, but it's not a dealbreaker for me. It's true that most 3rd party multiplatform games are better on other systems, but it's really only better in some ways (i.e., graphics, physics engines). Dead Rising should show that multiplatform games are entirely viable on the Wii with no loss--perhaps even some gain--to gameplay. Hopefully it'll set a standard that other companies will eventually follow: It doesn't need to look as pretty, just so long as it plays just as good or better. The Wii version of Force Unleashed might lack the graphical oomph or neat physics engine, but if the IGN hands-on is to be believed then the controls themselves might create an experience that would push the Wii version over the top--You push the Wiimote and your Jedi force pushes. You swing, he swings. It makes sense and it works almost 100% of the time.
I can't tell if I'm in favor of the duel mode or not, because the Wii has that Clone Wars fighting game coming out anyway. Kinda seems tacked-on to me.
