Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Delzethin]

My stance on Jonesy now is more or less what my stance on Steve was at the start of Smash 4:

Give it more time to see how the series ages, give the fanbase time to grow up more, and if it's still just as big a deal afterward then we should take the idea more seriously.

Especially since we have no idea when the next Smash game will come, or how high priority a guest fighter from a Western company who isn't Microsoft (who already had a leg in because Banjo was so highly requested in the Ballot) would be when Smash 6 does get going.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Usual: I hope there is a Subspace Emissary 2 chatter, in the Next Smash.
& heavily influenced by Kid Icarus Uprising? Nah that laaaast part is too much
Is it too much? Is that too much? XD
Okay but for real, a story mode that's Melee or Brawl -esque? Idk, idk yet lol

 

[ForsakenM]

Huh.

Things really are just wrapping up for us to have the next gen Switch sooner rather than later, that's crazy.

It does make a lot of sense though when you look at the timing though.

 

[Yamat08]

My stance on Jonesy now is more or less what my stance on Steve was at the start of Smash 4:

Give it more time to see how the series ages, give the fanbase time to grow up more, and if it's still just as big a deal afterward then we should take the idea more seriously.

Especially since we have no idea when the next Smash game will come, or how high priority a guest fighter from a Western company who isn't Microsoft (who already had a leg in because Banjo was so highly requested in the Ballot) would be when Smash 6 does get going.

Pretty much this. I'm personally of the opinion that third parties in general should be held up to a LOT of scrutiny lest it feels like Smash is letting literally just anyone in (especially considering how far they have to go in obtaining the rights to such characters compared to first parties). Fortunately, all the third parties that are in right now have some long-standing legacy and/or very close ties with Nintendo themselves (at least in regards to the playable characters; some Mii costumes and especially Spirits might be more arguable), but if they were to include some recent fad that would only prove to age poorly? That ain't it, chief.

Yeah, I recall plenty of people getting on the "Bayonetta should be in Smash" bandwagon as soon as Bayonetta 2 was announced as a Wii U exclusive/Nintendo published title all the way back in 2012.

She was basically the first instance of "this third party character got a game on new Nintendo platform, they should be in Smash" that continued into Ultimate with Crash, Doomguy, Tracer, etc

Bayonetta at least had the excuse of being Nintendo-published. Though I feel the trend of "new game on Switch=this character's in" might've been bolstered by Dragon Quest XI S coinciding with the inclusion of Hero.

 

[Gengar84]

And then there's me, who's so easy to please, I would probably vote for even some obscure indie character in a new Ballot...

Yeah, obviously I have personal favorites I’d love to see get in but I’m generally pretty accepting of anyone in Smash as long as they either look cool or interesting to play. For example, Steve was literally my least wanted character but I’m not bothered by his addition and I’m actually impressed with the way Sakurai incorporated Minecraft mechanics into Smash. He’s still not a character I’ll play regularly but he’s al least fun to mess around with once in a while. It also helps to try to step outside my own bias and realize that Smash isn’t made entirely to cater to my personal tastes. I’ll at least give every character a chance before I write them off.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Glover in Smash. Discuss.

 

[Stratos]

I still have hopes that Conker the Squirrel will come to a Super Smash Bros. game in the future, but on the other hand it seems to me that I will give up on this fact, although I want to see Diddy Kong, Banjo and Conker together again from Diddy Kong Racing.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Conker, Glover, & (Brawl Announcer) "KlonoA"
I hacked Klonoa in my SSBB as well! XD
& ya, I still stand by what I said. Blaze & NiGHTS in SSB6!!!

 

[Chuderz]

I just wish Smash had a dedicated team at Bamco always readying the next game in some way or another.

I wonder why Sakurai hasn't taken the plunge and put together a small studio of like 10-30 people or so under the Sora. LTD banner and gone 2nd party with Nintendo at the very least. Sure he values his freedom and all that but he's half a century old at this point and basically all of his work (definitely all the significant work at that) has been done under the Nintendo banner. I think it's safe to assume that he has very deep ties with the company and he isn't gonna jump ship to Playstation at any point in his career so the "freedom" is kind of pointless in that respect.

I imagine if he had a small dedicated studio to himself for his own games and/or Nintendo IP revivals and a dedicated division at Bamco for Smash that he could split his time between the two. Especially under the presumption that he'd be grooming a successor or better yet a team of successors for Smash.

I've wondered what his plans are since he expressed his limited time during the Harada interview and his 2022 quote about it being good to just "forget about him" for the year. Couple that with his talk about the limited budget of Nintendo multiple times (they should definitely keep the Sakurai presents model though because it's way more compelling content and all the better if it's cheaper) and the "serious talks" he mentioned about Smash's future.

Also as a little tidbit in and of itself I find it so odd the final "Sakurai presents Sora" with all the sentimentality of it all with the "so many things have changed", "this will be the last time I say this huh?" and the "please allow me to say goodbye" coupled with him still posting new Smash screenshots practically every day. I guess he just has a bunch that he'll eventually run out of? Idk but I just find it odd that he's still posting Smash stuff almost 6 months after Sora's reveal and release.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Glover in Smash. Discuss.

The company behind this is in favor of NFTs and is very anti game preservation which makes me sad.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I just wish Smash had a dedicated team at Bamco always readying the next game in some way or another.

I wonder why Sakurai hasn't taken the plunge and put together a small studio of like 10-30 people or so under the Sora. LTD banner and gone 2nd party with Nintendo at the very least. Sure he values his freedom and all that but he's half a century old at this point and basically all of his work (definitely all the significant work at that) has been done under the Nintendo banner. I think it's safe to assume that he has very deep ties with the company and he isn't gonna jump ship to Playstation at any point in his career so the "freedom" is kind of pointless in that respect.

I imagine if he had a small dedicated studio to himself for his own games and/or Nintendo IP revivals and a dedicated division at Bamco for Smash that he could split his time between the two. Especially under the presumption that he'd be grooming a successor or better yet a team of successors for Smash.

I've wondered what his plans are since he expressed his limited time during the Harada interview and his 2022 quote about it being good to just "forget about him" for the year. Couple that with his talk about the limited budget of Nintendo multiple times (they should definitely keep the Sakurai presents model though because it's way more compelling content and all the better if it's cheaper) and the "serious talks" he mentioned about Smash's future.

Also as a little tidbit in and of itself I find it so odd the final "Sakurai presents Sora" with all the sentimentality of it all with the "so many things have changed", "this will be the last time I say this huh?" and the "please allow me to say goodbye" coupled with him still posting new Smash screenshots practically every day. I guess he just has a bunch that he'll eventually run out of? Idk but I just find it odd that he's still posting Smash stuff almost 6 months after Sora's reveal and release.

It kinda does boggle the mind. Every Smash game, except for 64 and maybe also 4, have pretty glaring signs of being rushed. I don't count 64 as being rushed because it was the first and clearly had a low budget, and there's not much that seems rushed in 4 afaik (though it's the game I'm the least familiar with). But you have all the clones to help pad the roster quickly in Melee, in addition to Ganondorf being a mere clone of Captain Falcon rather than at least having a few of his moves be more like what he does in his games, and Game & Watch having no L-cancels for his aerials and too tiny of a shield. In Brawl, you have a few characters who seem unfinished, such as Wolf. In Ultimate, there's so much that's lacking in the single-player department. Most glaringly, the fact that WoL feels overly-simplistic. There's also the fact that there weren't that many base game newcomers who weren't echoes, and extremely few new stages for base game. And then you have the stuff that got added in as DLC: Home Run Contest, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra & Mythra, all stuff that feels like it should have been there in the base game, but they didn't have the time to add it.

I say all that to say this: it makes me think about how things could have been had almost every Smash entry not had such glaring signs of being rushed. I still think each Smash game is great, but they could have been that little bit better. Imagine Brawl if there had been a small team slowly working on it over the seven years or so between it and Melee. Imagine Melee and Ultimate had they been delayed for six months - a year so that at least some of the flaws I mentioned could have been improved upon. And now that we may very well be waiting 3 to 5 years for the next Smash, having a small team working on it already sounds like a good idea. I'm not even saying they'd have to get a lot done before the game is more solidified and work ramps up, just that it seems like having a small team slowly building a base would be a good idea and would cut down on the amount of stuff that ends up being rushed.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The company behind this is in favor of NFTs and is very anti game preservation which makes me sad.

Yeah, now I'm stuck at one of those crossroads. Do I buy it to support game preservation, or do I not buy it to not support the company?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Most glaringly, the fact that WoL feels overly-simplistic.

Subspace was a huge drain on resources. Having to do it again with better graphics and twice the characters would be an even bigger drain.

Ultimate in general wasn't as much rushed as it was having to deal with why most fighters DON'T have a roster with over 60 characters.

 

[Chuderz]

It kinda does boggle the mind. Every Smash game, except for 64 and maybe also 4, have pretty glaring signs of being rushed. I don't count 64 as being rushed because it was the first and clearly had a low budget, and there's not much that seems rushed in 4 afaik (though it's the game I'm the least familiar with). But you have all the clones to help pad the roster quickly in Melee, in addition to Ganondorf being a mere clone of Captain Falcon rather than at least having a few of his moves be more like what he does in his games, and Game & Watch having no L-cancels for his aerials and too tiny of a shield. In Brawl, you have a few characters who seem unfinished, such as Wolf. In Ultimate, there's so much that's lacking in the single-player department. Most glaringly, the fact that WoL feels overly-simplistic. There's also the fact that there weren't that many base game newcomers who weren't echoes, and extremely few new stages for base game. And then you have the stuff that got added in as DLC: Home Run Contest, Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra & Mythra, all stuff that feels like it should have been there in the base game, but they didn't have the time to add it.

I say all that to say this: it makes me think about how things could have been had almost every Smash entry not had such glaring signs of being rushed. I still think each Smash game is great, but they could have been that little bit better. Imagine Brawl if there had been a small team slowly working on it over the seven years or so between it and Melee. Imagine Melee and Ultimate had they been delayed for six months - a year so that at least some of the flaws I mentioned could have been improved upon. And now that we may very well be waiting 3 to 5 years for the next Smash, having a small team working on it already sounds like a good idea. I'm not even saying they'd have to get a lot done before the game is more solidified and work ramps up, just that it seems like having a small team slowly building a base would be a good idea and would cut down on the amount of stuff that ends up being rushed.

I agree completely. You can lay down a lot of the groundwork before serious development would even start. That's especially true if they u sed Ultimate as the base. Costumes, Miis, physics mechanics such as Melee/Brawl tech and the like are all done already by small groups of fans. I imagine a lot of content could be prepared with a small team before the big team got things going.

Even if it was a straight-up restart from the ground up a small team could still make things so much easier for the big team to hit the ground running once they started like finalizing the physics engine for example. Of course I'd imagine Sakurai would want to oversee that but I don't understand this process of "wait until he feels like it" and then they just suddenly start doing it. It seems sloppy and counterproductive. If I was Nintendo those would be a significant part of the serious talks I was organizing.

Subspace was a huge drain on resources. Having to do it again with better graphics and twice the characters would be an even bigger drain.

Ultimate in general wasn't as much rushed as it was having to deal with why most fighters DON'T have a roster with over 60 characters.

Ultimate's biggest problem was having 2.5 years of development time.

I do personally favor fighters/stages/costumes/multiplayer modes as opposed to single-player modes though in order to get the most out of development resources for the wider amount of players. It's why I don't favor the trophies coming back either.

I really like what they did with Classic mode this time around and would love to see that continue. Give each character a beginning and ending cutscene similar to the old-school Tekken games. Maybe even a middle cutscene as well. Sprinkle a more fully realized version of Adventure Mode from Melee scattered between the fights and maybe an occasional dedicated Boss fight and I think you'd have the ideal single-player story mode for Smash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Ultimate's biggest problem was having 2.5 years of development time.

Yeah, and that was longer than any previous Smash game. That, combined with fighting games usually not taking 3 years to be developed, meant they weren't going to make it any longer.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

You guys are ignoring developer burn out.

Working on the same project for seven years sounds mind numbing and prone to all sorts of funding and development problems.

Give Smash developers breaks. Let them refresh and develop other things too.

The Smash hype train does NOT have to be going 24/7.

 

[CannonStreak]

You guys are ignoring developer burn out.

Working on the same project for seven years sounds mind numbing and prone to all sorts of funding and development problems.

Give Smash developers breaks. Let them refresh and develop other things too.

The Smash hype train does NOT have to be going 24/7.

Agreed. I can imagine how burned out they were since Ultimate was close to Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS in terms of development. When the next Smash Bros. game even gets announced, it will get there.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You guys are ignoring developer burn out.

Working on the same project for seven years sounds mind numbing and prone to all sorts of funding and development problems.

Give Smash developers breaks. Let them refresh and develop other things too.

The Smash hype train does NOT have to be going 24/7.

Yeah, nobody wants Smash to become the COD of fighting games.

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah, nobody wants Smash to become the COD of fighting games.

Of course, that would be very dreadful, and lead to much rushing, but you knew that.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

My stance on Jonesy now is more or less what my stance on Steve was at the start of Smash 4:

Give it more time to see how the series ages, give the fanbase time to grow up more, and if it's still just as big a deal afterward then we should take the idea more seriously.

Especially since we have no idea when the next Smash game will come, or how high priority a guest fighter from a Western company who isn't Microsoft (who already had a leg in because Banjo was so highly requested in the Ballot) would be when Smash 6 does get going.

Honestly, if Joker could get in 2 years after Persona 5 was released, I don't see why they would need to wait more for Jonesy. Fortnite is already 5 years old, and the game has way more active players right now than it ever had. It's obviously not going to die at this point (at least not soon).

 

[StrangeKitten]

Subspace was a huge drain on resources. Having to do it again with better graphics and twice the characters would be an even bigger drain.

Ultimate in general wasn't as much rushed as it was having to deal with why most fighters DON'T have a roster with over 60 characters.

I don't think WoL needed to be as involved as a Subspace 2. I've long thought it would be greatly improved simply by having a couple more story cutscenes to better explain what's going on and break up the long slog. Alternatively, something akin to Melee's Adventure mode would work well, too, and likely take nowhere near the amount of work Subspace did.

You guys are ignoring developer burn out.

Working on the same project for seven years sounds mind numbing and prone to all sorts of funding and development problems.

Give Smash developers breaks. Let them refresh and develop other things too.

The Smash hype train does NOT have to be going 24/7.

We're not saying the devs should have no breaks. We're simply saying there's probably a good chunk of work a second team could accomplish in the interim. Say, for example, team B gets all the items modeled and programmed in. Now when team A does come in to start their work on Smash, after having taken a years-long break, that's one less thing they have to do. And, when team A is spending their years working on Smash and its DLC, that's when team B gets their years-long break. And now, there's so much more time to polish up the game, and/or add one of the characters they may have wanted to add, but wouldn't have had time had team B not gotten so much of the simpler stuff done.

 

[Yamat08]

Honestly, if Joker could get in 2 years after Persona 5 was released, I don't see why they would need to wait more for Jonesy. Fortnite is already 5 years old, and the game has way more active players right now than it ever had. It's obviously not going to die at this point (at least not soon).

I don't fully agree with Joker's addition, but he at least comes from a long-running franchise (spun off from an even longer-running franchise that'd been around since the Famicom). I just worry that he's a flavor of the month that'll become irrelevent as soon as Persona 6 comes out.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

"UHUH. KRYSTAL FROM Star Fox: Assault FOR SSB6." "She was considered for SSBB so her chances now must be doing okay.!"

Me: Wow what a generic pov.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

"UHUH. KRYSTAL FROM Star Fox: Assault FOR SSB6." "She was considered for SSBB so her chances now must be doing okay.!"
View attachment 346960
Me: Wow what a generic pov.

Krystal would be rad as hell though.

 

[osby]

Honestly, if Joker could get in 2 years after Persona 5 was released, I don't see why they would need to wait more for Jonesy. Fortnite is already 5 years old, and the game has way more active players right now than it ever had. It's obviously not going to die at this point (at least not soon).

To be fair, Persona was already a longstanding series by the time Persona 5 came out but I see your point.

Seeing how early the negotiations for Steve started, I don't think Fortnite would be too new even if the next Smash is released in a couple of years.

 

[Arcanir]

And then you have the stuff that got added in as DLC: [...]Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra & Mythra, all stuff that feels like it should have been there in the base game, but they didn't have the time to add it.

None of those characters existed when they designed the project plan for the roster. It was drafted in late 2015/early 2016, ARMS and XC2 didn't come out until 2017 while Three Houses didn't come out until 2018, the latter of which was after Ultimate. And no, they don't throw in completely new characters and games created during development in the middle of it as that disrupts it and risks affecting (if not outright cutting) content in other areas. Unless the idea was to have them as clones the only time those characters could be added was DLC, otherwise they missed the boat for the base roster completely.

The only character you could make the argument for being developed during the base game and pushed off to DLC is Piranha Plant, those three have no indication they got any more than a quick dismissal from the information we have on hand.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Krystal would be rad as hell though.

I knowwwwwwwwww

 

[osby]

I don't fully agree with Joker's addition, but he at least comes from a long-running franchise (spun off from an even longer-running franchise that'd been around since the Famicom). I just worry that he's a flavor of the month that'll become irrelevent as soon as Persona 6 comes out.

That seems like an unfounded worry.

It is possible that the next game will surpass P5 in terms of sales and acclaim but Joker already cemented himself as the most popular Megami Tensei protagonist ever. Seeing how previous fan favorites like Demi-fiend and Yu Narukami are still prominent after many years and multiple sequels, I don't see Joker being forgotten anytime soon.

 

[StrangeKitten]

None of those characters existed when they designed the project plan for the roster. It was drafted in late 2015/early 2016, ARMS and XC2 didn't come out until 2017 while Three Houses didn't come out until 2018, the latter of which was after Ultimate. And no, they don't throw in completely new characters and games created during development in the middle of it as that disrupts it and risks affecting (if not outright cutting) content in other areas. Unless the idea was to have them as clones the only time those characters could be added was DLC, otherwise they missed the boat for the base roster completely.

The only character you could make the argument for being developed during the base game and pushed off to DLC is Piranha Plant, those three have no indication they got any more than a quick dismissal from the information we have on hand.

But that's the thing, had Ultimate been delayed and/or had a second team working on stuff a year or two beforehand before the main team took over, it's possible one or more of those characters could have been added. The dev team clearly wanted to add them, going by Sakurai's comments and the importance placed on Rex (bonus Mii costume for the first Fighter's Pass) and Spring Man (Assist Trophy). Let's not forget that the team does have access to pre-release material and can at least start planning and making characters before their games come out, and don't necessarily wait and see if the game will be successful (remember that Byleth was planned for FP1 regardless of how well-liked 3H would end up being).

 

[Arcanir]

But that's the thing, had Ultimate been delayed and/or had a second team working on stuff a year or two beforehand before the main team took over, it's possible one or more of those characters could have been added. The dev team clearly wanted to add them, going by Sakurai's comments and the importance placed on Rex (bonus Mii costume for the first Fighter's Pass) and Spring Man (Assist Trophy). Let's not forget that the team does have access to pre-release material and can at least start planning and making characters before their games come out, and don't necessarily wait and see if the game will be successful (remember that Byleth was planned for FP1 regardless of how well-liked 3H would end up being).

Based on previous precedence, probably not.

If the game was delayed/they had more time, it's more likely they would've spent that time adding clones rather than dipping into entirely new characters. Looking at the previous games, when they had a little more time to develop their first choice isn't to throw in a new character they'd have to make from scratch, they go for characters that can be built from the resources they currently have on hand. Brawl's a pretty good example of that, when the game was delayed they didn't use that time to add a newcomer from scratch, they instead used that time to finalize three characters that could be built from pre-existing assets: Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff. Wolf in particular they even mentioned that being a major factor to his inclusion: He could reuse much of the assets whereas Krystal could not, thus he got in. If Ultimate had something similar happen it's more likely that time would've given us more Echoes and/or (maybe less likely) tweaked versions of the current ones, not Rex/Pyra/Mythra or Spring Man who would've required newly made assets that probably wouldn't be made in time.

And before it's mentioned, Sonic was not a result of or caused the delay, and it should also be noted that he was intended for the game from the start as well unlike the hypothetical Spring Man would be for Ultimate's base roster.

Also, the team has some access to certain pre-release material, but not all. One example that comes to mind is Shadow Dragon, as the game was being developed during Brawl's time but Sakurai had no knowledge of it beforehand, and in an interview he had with IS he admits that he wished he knew so that he could've updated Marth's design. There's no guarantee that Sakurai would've learned of XC2 or ARMs in development and decided to add them in with more time, especially since there wouldn't have been a plan around their hypothetical inclusion to account for resources being diverted to them.

 

[dream1ng]

If Star Fox hadn't slipped into the abyss after Command we probably would have Krystal by now. She's quite an innately popular character hampered entirely by the state of the series.

We're not saying the devs should have no breaks. We're simply saying there's probably a good chunk of work a second team could accomplish in the interim. Say, for example, team B gets all the items modeled and programmed in. Now when team A does come in to start their work on Smash, after having taken a years-long break, that's one less thing they have to do. And, when team A is spending their years working on Smash and its DLC, that's when team B gets their years-long break. And now, there's so much more time to polish up the game, and/or add one of the characters they may have wanted to add, but wouldn't have had time had team B not gotten so much of the simpler stuff done.

The problem with that - well, one problem with that, is that they're not going to work on more ancillary stuff like items until the foundation is laid and the framework is far enough to support inessential facets of combat, which is going to require the main team over the support team. Doing it backwards subjects the team to a great deal more potential revision, and there is generally a deliberate sequence in which development works for reasons such as this.

And I have to imagine swapping teams in and out between multiple projects is an inefficient way to move forward with development.

 

[ZeldaFan01]

Based on previous precedence, probably not.

If the game was delayed/they had more time, it's more likely they would've spent that time adding clones rather than dipping into entirely new characters. Looking at the previous games, when they had a little more time to develop their first choice isn't to throw in a new character they'd have to make from scratch, they go for characters that can be built from the resources they currently have on hand. Brawl's a pretty good example of that, when the game was delayed they didn't use that time to add a newcomer from scratch, they instead used that time to finalize three characters that could be built from pre-existing assets: Toon Link, Wolf, and Jigglypuff. If Ultimate had something similar happen, it's more likely that time would've given us more Echoes or (more unlikely) tweaked versions of the current ones, not Rex/Pyra/Mythra or Spring Man who would've required newly made assets that probably wouldn't be made in time.

I still need to replace one of my top 5s w/ Spring Man or Ribbon Girl

 

[SPEN18]

In terms of development time...I think it could be beneficial to let Smash sit in the oven for a little bit longer than it has in the past, BUT at the end of the day the game is only allocated a certain budget, a budget which is carefully calculated for profitability, and so at a certain point spreading that budget over a longer development cycle is just going to force you to pay employees for more time and things like this. I'm not a businessman but don't think you'll get drastically better output from more dev time unless it comes with a significant budget increase. I just don't know how beneficial to Nintendo it would be to implement this sort of perpetual dev team that's being suggested; it goes back to raw content only having a limited impact on sales compared to other considerations like genre, branding, core gameplay, simply being the latest iteration on new hardware, etc.

 

[Chuderz]

Well as I've said before that the entire speculation around "Smash 6" is contingent upon when the true successor to the Switch (no an enhanced revision of the current Switch ala Gameboy - Gameboy Color) is released and how long Nintendo is okay with waiting for a Smash to not be on said successor console, which by using past precedent is at most 2 years. Would Nintendo want something closer to launch say the first holiday season with the console on market? Will the console itself be a holiday season launch? Who knows?

That all being said I still don't think having a dedicated Smash team necessitates that Smash becomes a "COD" type of annual release because that's taking the idea of Smash having a dedicated team to a hyperbolic extreme. I don't think coordination between two sets of teams is impossible (though admittingly difficult) because lots of developmental teams do it such as Bethesda. I actually think Ultimate DX inherently alleviates some of these concerns of revision backtracking since it already has its foundation set enough that a smaller team tweaking things here and there shouldn't be too much of an issue at worst. I don't think that means the devs don't get breaks as well but I imagine they aren't getting an actual break now either. They're most definitely working on their next project because this is their job. I don't think that because other fighting games were developed within a certain timeframe that Smash absolutely must stay within said timeframe.

I mean that's kind of the point of Ultimate DX spec anyways. The idea being what if you had Ultimate + DLC as day 0 and as many as 3-5 years to get it ready for a more powerful piece of hardware. While like any other game it'd have its own set of challenges I don't think they're insurmountable nor do I think they're of a sufficient deterrence to such a compelling concept.

Either way "Smash 6" turns out it's going to start development in about 2 years down the line at the latest and it will be ready for the Switch's successor. Having it all fall to one guy to direct everytime is its own challenge for both the series and Sakurai himself. Some sort of solution must be reached sooner rather than later.

 

[Dinoman96]

If Star Fox hadn't slipped into the abyss after Command we probably would have Krystal by now. She's quite an innately popular character hampered entirely by the state of the series.

Like I said before...if the likes of Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong (more popular and well known characters from more popular and well known series) have trouble crossing the finish line, then I kinda have a hard time seeing an (at best) fourth stringer Star Fox character getting in. Especially when you consider that, per admitted by Sakurai, the only reason Star Fox even got the additional characters it has was because they were easy to create, both being deriatives of Fox's moveset.

Sakurai answers some (old) questions– about Brawl!

These questions were part of a two-part article that was published shortly after Brawl’s release, in the magazine Nintendo Dream, featuring a bunch of reader questions, which Sakurai answered…

sourcegaming.info

In the end, the three playable characters in this game from “Star Fox” are Fox and Falco, and on top of that, Wolf, because he was popular and easy to create. On the other hand, if it was a situation where it wasn’t easy to create this character, and we had to make him from scratch, “Star Fox” may not have had 3 representatives. So, please think of Wolf as a lucky inclusion.

 

[dream1ng]

Like I said before...if the likes of Bandana Dee and Dixie Kong (more popular and well known characters from more popular and well known series) have trouble crossing the finish line, then I kinda have a hard time seeing an (at best) fourth stringer Star Fox character getting in. Especially when you consider that, per admitted by Sakurai, the only reason Star Fox even got the additional characters it has was because they were easy to create, both being deriatives of Fox's moveset.

Sakurai answers some (old) questions– about Brawl!

These questions were part of a two-part article that was published shortly after Brawl’s release, in the magazine Nintendo Dream, featuring a bunch of reader questions, which Sakurai answered…

sourcegaming.info

Krystal was not a fourth-stringer Star Fox character in the three games in which she appeared - she was just as prominent as Falco or Slippy, if not more so in some titles. She showed up later than those two in the series, but became just as prevalent in the series for a time. Her popularity also more or less matched Wolf's during the Brawl age. So had the momentum from the mid 00s continued for the series and the character, not only would her popularity be very high (it was already probably high enough on the ballot to make her an AT despite the decade of dormancy which preceded that), but it'd be an active series with a main character people wanted. Her chances would be good enough that her still not being included would be odd.

On the other hand Dixie should get in but it's not like this is the mid 90s, there's only been one main game with her in a very long time, and K. Rool was overwhelmingly more popular. And Dee is just a bad example through and through since the Kirby series gets singular selective treatment by Sakurai. Like 95% of the main content comes from like one tenth of the series' titles.

Plus a quote about how we got the character who could be more easily made into a semi-clone two titles ago has no bearing on the possibilities or capabilities for future titles. Also, don't forget the directly preceding paragraph from your source:

For Krystal, we didn’t have any of the technical modeling knowledge that we had cultivated with Fox and Falco, so it was like making a brand-new character from scratch. And because of the limited amount of time we had, creating Krystal wasn’t realistically possible. On that point, with Wolf we already have some knowledge of how to model his character, and would require about 70% of the effort required to create a whole new character.

It was clearly a question of time and resources for Brawl, not some perennial prohibition on more SF characters forever. Suggesting otherwise is cherrypicking excerpts.

 

[Dukefire]

Which indie characters have another shot if the next Smash Bros game is announced?

 

[skylanders fan]

I say the biggest chance is shovel knight

 

[StrangeKitten]

The problem with that - well, one problem with that, is that they're not going to work on more ancillary stuff like items until the foundation is laid and the framework is far enough to support inessential facets of combat, which is going to require the main team over the support team. Doing it backwards subjects the team to a great deal more potential revision, and there is generally a deliberate sequence in which development works for reasons such as this.

And I have to imagine swapping teams in and out between multiple projects is an inefficient way to move forward with development.

Well, getting the items made was only a simple example that came to my mind. Maybe it wouldn't be feasible, but how about laying said foundation and building some of the framework? I can't help but think that there are a lot of little things that could be worked on by a team that could save the main team many months of work. We're talking Bamco developers here; folks who would be highly skilled at building the skeleton of a game that the main team could later flesh out.

Which indie characters have another shot if the next Smash Bros game is announced?

Probably Shovel Knight and sans, because the stuff they got in Ultimate (an assist trophy and a deluxe Mii costume, respectively) tells me the devs are likely to favor them the most, or recognize that they're popular among the general gaming audience.

 

[Staarih]

Which indie characters have another shot if the next Smash Bros game is announced?

I think Undertale/Deltarune (so, Sans or whoever). I'll always find it fascinating how that game has found a very stable footing in Japan, getting to #13 in that Japanese "best video games of all times" vote from a while back, for example, being the highest western game on the list.

Shovel Knight, I feel, has kinda lost its luster, sadly. Shovel Knight Pocket Dungeon kinda came and went, though maybe Shovel Knight Dig will bring more attention again. The original Shovel Knight was published by Nintendo in Japan (which likely helped in getting featured in Ultimate, like Rayman), but I dunno if similar circumstances will happen again.