Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Noipoi]

show me the verse in the Smash Bible where father Masahiro Montgomery Sakurai specifically states characters that are mii costumes or assist trophies cannot become playable within the same title

13:4 Corrinthians

 

[dream1ng]

Expecting Ultimate, at least the Switch version that has been out since 2018, to get new characters in the year 2024, three years after the DLC ended and the team disbanded, six years after launch, when it's likely development has already begun on what's next, and the same year we're likely set to be receiving heavy Switch 2 marketing for the majority of the year, is some letting blind idealism fully put both hands on the wheel and letting realism go sit in the backseat.

The signals that people are likely (mis)reading, the return of content, is because the dev team has reformed to, shocker, make a game for the imminent system, as Smash always is there for, towards the beginning. And they'd just retroactively add some very resource-light content to cover the last couple years/the game's anniversary.

Making characters now for an older game on a system that will imminently be replaced instead of directing resources future-forward is bordering on mismanagement. This isn't kart, they don't have existing assets to just repurpose. And that DLC began in time to end prior to the next system being revealed. Characters are not some easy, quick thing to make. Especially since they'd all have to be newcomers.

Look, I get why people just want Ultimate to keep going and going. It'd be great to get characters indefinitely... I'm with you on that... but it just makes so much less sense as the eventual outcome of what's happening right now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They are not allowed to stop adding characters to Ultimate until they give me everything I want.

 

[dream1ng]

13:4 Corrinthians

And on the fourth game, Sakurai provided unto them a ballot through which they could raise their voices and appeal unto the devs.

And they knew it was good.

And lo, Executive with Glasses approached Sakurai and said unto him, "I bring word from on high to add Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates™, the newest game in the Fire Emblem™ series for the Nintendo 3DS™ family of systems".

And Sakurai was filled with much apprehension, for a trinity of Fire Emblem characters had already been received unto the game, and the people were now of mixed favor towards them.

And Sakurai responded, "I prithee, perhaps a wolf or snake for the people? For they grow weary and restless of medieval anime boys".

And Executive with Glasses said, "no, add Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates™, the newest game in the Fire Emblem™ series for the Nintendo 3DS™ family of systems".

And Sakurai knew it was so.​

A reading from the book of thians

 

[fogbadge]

They are not allowed to stop adding characters to Ultimate until they give me everything I want.

I tried that. It does not work

 

[Noipoi]

And on the fourth game, Sakurai provided unto them a ballot through which they could raise their voices and appeal unto the devs.

And they knew it was good.

And lo, Executive with Glasses approached Sakurai and said unto him, "I bring word from on high to add Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates™, the newest game in the Fire Emblem™ series for the Nintendo 3DS™ family of systems".

And Sakurai was filled with much apprehension, for a trinity of Fire Emblem characters had already been received unto the game, and the people were now of mixed favor towards them.

And Sakurai responded, "I prithee, perhaps a wolf or snake for the people? For they grow weary and restless of medieval anime boys".

And Executive with Glasses said, "no, add Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates™, the newest game in the Fire Emblem™ series for the Nintendo 3DS™ family of systems".

And Sakurai knew it was so.​

A reading from the book of thians

That was the entire pun but I worry people may have missed it

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And on the fourth game, Sakurai provided unto them a ballot through which they could raise their voices and appeal unto the devs.

And they knew it was good.

And lo, Executive with Glasses approached Sakurai and said unto him, "I bring word from on high to add Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates™, the newest game in the Fire Emblem™ series for the Nintendo 3DS™ family of systems".

And Sakurai was filled with much apprehension, for a trinity of Fire Emblem characters had already been received unto the game, and the people were now of mixed favor towards them.

And Sakurai responded, "I prithee, perhaps a wolf or snake for the people? For they grow weary and restless of medieval anime boys".

And Executive with Glasses said, "no, add Corrin from Fire Emblem Fates™, the newest game in the Fire Emblem™ series for the Nintendo 3DS™ family of systems".

And Sakurai knew it was so.​

A reading from the book of thians

And The Fandom wept.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

If they were to add new content to Ultimate i would honestly prefer it to be just stages.

Just to make the stage select an even square. Just make two of them Poke floats and Rainbow road to cut down on dev costs since the assets for them already exist, maybe use the third spot on a monster hunter stage or something.

 

[MasterCheef]

Expecting Ultimate, at least the Switch version that has been out since 2018, to get new characters in the year 2024, three years after the DLC ended and the team disbanded, six years after launch, when it's likely development has already begun on what's next, and the same year we're likely set to be receiving heavy Switch 2 marketing for the majority of the year, is some letting blind idealism fully put both hands on the wheel and letting realism go sit in the backseat.

The signals that people are likely (mis)reading, the return of content, is because the dev team has reformed to, shocker, make a game for the imminent system, as Smash always is there for, towards the beginning. And they'd just retroactively add some very resource-light content to cover the last couple years/the game's anniversary.

Making characters now for an older game on a system that will imminently be replaced instead of directing resources future-forward is bordering on mismanagement. This isn't kart, they don't have existing assets to just repurpose. And that DLC began in time to end prior to the next system being revealed. Characters are not some easy, quick thing to make. Especially since they'd all have to be newcomers.

Look, I get why people just want Ultimate to keep going and going. It'd be great to get characters indefinitely... I'm with you on that... but it just makes so much less sense as the eventual outcome of what's happening right now.

.
I will be very shocked if we get , ( Noah & Mio ) , Amiibo , without a FP3

 

[Guynamednelson]

If they were to add new content to Ultimate i would honestly prefer it to be just stages.

Just to make the stage select an even square. Just make two of the Poke floats and Rainbow road to cut down on dev costs since the assets for them already exist, maybe use the third spot on a monster hunter stage or something.

Fun fact about Poke Floats: It being a parade with Pokemon balloons was made up for the game's English localization. In Japan, it's called "Pokemon Subspace". I wonder if that has something to do with it not being remastered, since Japan and everyone else would have a different idea how the stage is supposed to be.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

.
I will be very shocked if we get , ( Noah & Mio ) , Amiibo , without a FP3

We get amiibo for non Smash franchises all the time. I don't think this is a hint towards anything.

We've gotten amiibos for Toad, Boo, Celica, Tiki and a whole lot of Splatoon and Zelda characters. The amiibo doesn't imply much other than Nintendo thinks they're marketable.

 

[RileyXY1]

Fun fact about Poke Floats: It being a parade with Pokemon balloons was made up for the game's English localization. In Japan, it's called "Pokemon Subspace". I wonder if that has something to do with it not being remastered, since Japan and everyone else would have a different idea how the stage is supposed to be.

Also, Poke Floats is the laziest stage in the franchise's entire history. The "Pokémon balloons" are actually the Pokémon models from Stadium 1 and 2.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Fun fact about Poke Floats: It being a parade with Pokemon balloons was made up for the game's English localization. In Japan, it's called "Pokemon Subspace". I wonder if that has something to do with it not being remastered, since Japan and everyone else would have a different idea how the stage is supposed to be.

So like, its meant to be pocket dimension Pokemon are stored in?

...That idea lowkey makes it cooler.

 

[dream1ng]

That was the entire pun but I worry people may have missed it

It took me a minute because I didn't know if that's just how you normally spell Corinthians lol. Why I added the icon to mine

.
I will be very shocked if we get , ( Noah & Mio ) , Amiibo , without a FP3

Yeah but you also thought Sakurai was lying about it ending after FP2 due to propaganda reasons(?) so you're cutting things with confirmation bias

Don't make too much of unrelated amiibo. That's how people thought we were going to get Shovel Knight.

 

[Noipoi]

Also, Poke Floats is the laziest stage in the franchise's entire history. The "Pokémon balloons" are actually the Pokémon models from Stadium 1 and 2.

Laziest?

Or most ingenious?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Also, Poke Floats is the laziest stage in the franchise's entire history. The "Pokémon balloons" are actually the Pokémon models from Stadium 1 and 2.

It may be lazy, but it's also one of the most charming stages.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I always loved Poke Floats because it's fun just to see CPU fighters on certain difficulties just not know what to do on it.

 

[dream1ng]

Also, Poke Floats is the laziest stage in the franchise's entire history. The "Pokémon balloons" are actually the Pokémon models from Stadium 1 and 2.

Lazy isn't the right word, because a moving stage with a ton of different platforms probably requires more programming and testing than your average stage.

It's just saving resources and animation work by reusing models.

 

[HyperSomari64]

So like, its meant to be pocket dimension Pokemon are stored in?

...That idea lowkey makes it cooler.

is this what the software of the Pokémon Center's PCs look like?

 

[Slime Scholar]

Yeah we aren’t getting more DLC for Ultimate. I don’t think them sparing a few devs to push out spirit updates is indicative of any bigger plans for that game.

I do, however, think that the timing lines up nicely with Namco’s Studio 2 and Studio S being announced, and that part of the reason they have people on-hand to add the spirits at all is because they’re now working on a proper sequel.

 

[MasterCheef]

Don't make too much of unrelated amiibo. That's how people thought we were going to get Shovel Knight.

These are the only Amiibo who have not come out anywhere near in relation to their game or DLC,
Technically Sora too however i expect Sora had some Legal & agreement issues to overcome

 

[smashkirby]

I want an adventure mode like Subspace (platforming-focused and whatnot) but I'm personally hoping for more tightly-designed stages.

My dream Smash story mode involves fighters being pulled from their home worlds and into the Smash world (basically that canyon area you always see in the trailers). Before a character is introduced to the Smash world, you get to play one or two stages with them that are genuinely tailored for their movement and abilities, just like a Break the Targets stage in Melee. That way, even once they join the Smash world an join a party with other characters (basically necessitating a more lenient/general stage design) you still feel like you're getting a lot more meaningfully-designed stages to go through.

Also, cutscenes. Not Subspace cutscenes with the non-existent dialogue and awkward storytelling, and not post-intro World of Light cutscenes that seemingly deliberately avoid showing the actual characters in favor of the two big bads in the sky shooting lasers at each other or whatever. I want a new style of cutscenes that embrace character interaction and make use of the wide crossover that Smash Bros is. The closest comparison I can make is WoL's opening (the only good cutscene in that mode) where characters are shown talking to each other and using their abilities. THAT was something special.

For crying out loud, the scene where Sonic tries saving Pikachu lasts no more than two seconds, but it spawned so much awesome fanart from that little moment alone. People want interactions, and I'm sorry but the whole "we don't make cutscenes anymore because le internet spoils them" thing is a really petty excuse for not making the pantheon of famous video game characters in your crossover game actually interact in ways that don't involve socking one another in the face.

THANK YOU. I'll always give Smash credit for the ambition of having so many video game IPs in one game, but post-SSE has made me realize that Smash seems to do the absolute bare minimum when it comes to INTERACTIONS (outside of SSE and reveal trailers, I mean). When you realize that, it gets pretty irritating to think about.

【新規スピリッツイベント1回目】（計4回）
1/12(金)から5日間「勢ぞろい！ シリーズ最新作のスピリッツ」を開催！ スピリッツボードに『ゼルダの伝説　ティアーズ オブ ザ キングダム』『スプラトゥーン3』などの新スピリッツが出現。バトルに勝つと、多めにゴールドを獲得できます。 #スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/yEZxeMM46E

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) January 10, 2024

I think this is the first of the four spirit events, although it may be that these are all four, google translate isn't 100% clear.

If this is all four then that makes sense, if this is one big event I'm very confused about what the other three could be...

Edit: d

The next one is probably Mario Wonder, Fire Emblem Engage, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet and Kirby and the Forgotten Land

Although that still leaves 2 events which could either be completely different or going into games like Nintendo Switch Sports and maybe even Third Parties for things like Bayonetta 3.

List of major games that aren't (yet) part of this new batch of spirits:

Super Mario Bros. Wonder
Pokemon Legends: Arceus
Pokemon Scarlet & Violet
Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope
Kirby and the Forgotten Land
Nintendo Switch Sports
Bayonetta 3
Fire Emblem Engage
Advance Wars 1+2 Reboot Camp
F-ZERO 99
Sonic Superstars
WarioWare: Move It!
Super Mario RPG
Princess Peach: Showtime!

And here's a list of games that might be lower priority for getting spirits:

Metroid Prime Remastered
Kirby's Return to Dream Land Deluxe (might still get spirits based on Magolor Epilogue)
Bayonetta Origins: Cereza and the Lost Demon
Detective Pikachu Returns

Ngl, upon coming across its Twitter page last week, I wonder if Fitness Boxing would be eligible for a Spirit event. Apparently, that game is still going surprisingly strong, what with its recent crossovers with Fist of the North Star and Vocaloid.

Fun fact about Poke Floats: It being a parade with Pokemon balloons was made up for the game's English localization. In Japan, it's called "Pokemon Subspace". I wonder if that has something to do with it not being remastered, since Japan and everyone else would have a different idea how the stage is supposed to be.

So like, its meant to be pocket dimension Pokemon are stored in?

...That idea lowkey makes it cooler.

God, I'd give ANYTHING to see Poke Floats return. Heck, I'd think Smash would be more willing to bring it back, given how they'd simply need to program the 3D models of Gen. 8 and 9 into the game.

Still though, you know what I always thought about Poke Floats? Given the 'general location' Melee's English localization claimed the stage took place in, I always figured the fight took place VERY early in the morning of the day, given the unusual BG the stage had.

 

[Gorgonzales]

These are the only Amiibo who have not come out anywhere near in relation to their game or DLC,
Technically Sora too however i expect Sora had some Legal & agreement issues to overcome

the amiibo sculptors presenting the final draft (number two thousand four hundrered and eighty-six) of the sora amiibo to the disney execs with all of their requested changes

 

[MasterCheef]

interesting

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only issue I have with the Booster Course Pass comparisons is that the only reason we have it is because of Tour.

Last time I checked there isn’t a mobile Smash game to rip content from.

It's true that FP3 would be a lot more work than the BCP because of that.

But the overwhelming success of the BCP may convince them that it's worth the extra effort.

Expecting Ultimate, at least the Switch version that has been out since 2018, to get new characters in the year 2024, three years after the DLC ended and the team disbanded, six years after launch, when it's likely development has already begun on what's next, and the same year we're likely set to be receiving heavy Switch 2 marketing for the majority of the year, is some letting blind idealism fully put both hands on the wheel and letting realism go sit in the backseat.

Except for the part where Nintendo just got done doing the exact same thing with it's other most popular series...

 

[dream1ng]

These are the only Amiibo who have not come out anywhere near in relation to their game or DLC,
Technically Sora too however i expect Sora had some Legal & agreement issues to overcome

So what? That has nothing to do with Smash. You're looking at the schedule of an amiibo of an unrelated line and thinking it's somehow related to the DLC of a completely different game. Plus, it's not. The Zelda, Shovel Knight and Smash lines have had several amiibo not launch near their games/DLC.

More over, if we were going to get Noah and Mio as characters in Ultimate, we wouldn't have just got them right now as spirits.

 

[MasterCheef]

More over, if we were going to get Noah and Mio as characters in Ultimate, we wouldn't have just got them right now as spirits.

Like i said earlier , maybe History is repeating itself

Pyra & Mythra , were both spirits before getting characters.

Why would not the same happen for , Noah & Mio ?

 

[dream1ng]

It's true that FP3 would be a lot more work than the BCP because of that.

But the overwhelming success of the BCP may convince them that it's worth the extra effort.

They're not going to prioritize major DLC for Ultimate over development of the next game, though. Because a game is more lucrative than this DLC would be. Also, they already know Smash DLC sells well. It would've sold even better continuing from Sora than now, and yet they still called it.

The unreleased Mario Kart is/was their priority. The BCP happened because they were able to repurpose Tour content without inhibiting the sequel's timeframe. Probably because 1) it's been in development for so long, 2) the BCP was low-resource comparatively, and 3) the MK ecosystem had at least five devs working on it at that time (EPD9, mobile EPD team, SRD, Namco, DeNA).

Plus, it ended before the arrival of their new system; now pushing Ultimate DLC will be incongruent with most of this year's marketing.

Like i said earlier , maybe History is repeating itself

Pyra & Mythra , were both spirits before getting characters.

Why would not the same happen for , Noah & Mio ?

Pyra and Mythra were spirits in base before FP2 had been assembled. At that point they weren't planned. If they're making characters for Ultimate now, they know who they're going to be, and these spirits would've been decided with that knowledge.

They avoid overlap like this when it's happening in the same timeframe.

 

[MasterCheef]

They're not going to prioritize major DLC for Ultimate over development of the next game, though. Because a game is more lucrative than this DLC would be. Also, they already know Smash DLC sells well. It would've sold even better continuing from Sora than now, and yet they still called it.

The unreleased Mario Kart is/was their priority. The BCP happened because they were able to repurpose Tour content without inhibiting the sequel's timeframe. Probably because 1) it's been in development for so long, 2) the BCP was low-resource comparatively, and 3) the MK ecosystem had at least five devs working on it at that time (EPD9, mobile EPD team, SRD, Namco, DeNA).

Plus, it ended before the arrival of their new system; now pushing Ultimate DLC will be incongruent with most of this year's marketing.

Pyra and Mythra were spirits in base before FP2 had been assembled. At that point they weren't planned. If they're making characters for Ultimate now, they know who they're going to be, and these spirits would've been decided with that knowledge.

They avoid overlap like this when it's happening in the same time frame.

.
you have a lot of assumptions here.
What makes you so confident you know know what Nintendo wants to do ?

 

[Louie G.]

.
you have a lot of assumptions here.
What makes you so confident you know know what Nintendo wants to do ?

Sakurai has stated that spirits are a means of expanding the scope of Smash as efficiently as possible with a lesser workload. So why would they add Noah and Mio as post-game spirits now if they planned to add them to the same game in a year? Obviously we could split hairs all day about how they COULD do this or that... they can do anything they want. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to do that, but it's irrelevant anyway because the chance of us seeing more Ultimate content is tremendously slim already. You would just assume if there were plans to add a Xenoblade 3 character already in motion, they wouldn't add those characters as supplementary content to overlap with it. Because there just wouldn't be any reason to.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

.
you have a lot of assumptions here.
What makes you so confident you know know what Nintendo wants to do ?

We could ask you the same question. Why are you so confident you think Noah and Mii are locks specifically for Ultimate?

 

[MasterCheef]

We could ask you the same question. Why are you so confident you think Noah and Mii are locks specifically for Ultimate?

.
.
The release window makes no sense otherwise.
I mean we have had a number of amiibo announced & released within the time-frame these amiibo are being released from their announcement date.

 

[cashregister9]

You know we are back to getting new Smash Ultimate content because we are having the Fan Rule debate over a fighter's pass that doesn't even exist.

 

[SneakyLink]

Personally, I think the new spirits are all we’re getting, aside from a patch that adds in the Sora amiibo.

It would be nice if more content existed, but I’m taking the spirits as everything.

 

[dream1ng]

.
you have a lot of assumptions here.
What makes you so confident you know know what Nintendo wants to do ?

Because I'm using precedent and basic business sense. You have a certain amount to invest, and a certain timeframe in which it takes to produce this stuff.

You can create less lucrative content for what remains of the DLC buying crowd of an older game on a system Nintendo is phasing out and is on the verge of being replaced, or you can get one of your AAA titles, a more lucrative product, out on the next system much sooner, and in turn grow that system's audience, something you've put a monumental investment into.

The more major DLC you add to Ultimate, the more it will defer the next game and detract from pushing the new system. It's just not a good use of their resources. There's no reason to release Ultimate DLC now. Yes it would make money on the existing install base, but if that was their goal, they would've just kept going. It would've been more lucrative before. At this point, making a new game will make more money.

And keep in mind, the later that Smash shows up, the shorter its potential DLC window is. Because at this point, Smash's DLC phase isn't going to shrink.

You want to invoke history repeating, well if the team is reassembled, making new content on the probable eve of a new system launch... with a series that always tends to show up towards the beginning of the system (because it's a killer app), which requires development preempting the system's release, it doesn't take a genius to realize which console is actually the priority.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

.
.
The release window makes no sense otherwise.
I mean we have had a number of amiibo announced & released within the time-frame these amiibo are being released from their announcement date.

If Noah and Mio were being delayed to coincide with a Smash release, wouldn't they just make a Smash amiibo instead?

 

[Noipoi]

I’m in the camp that thinks we’re getting this little bit of new content because they’re starting work on a new Smash game, one we won’t see for a year or two.

 

[dream1ng]

.
.
The release window makes no sense otherwise.
I mean we have had a number of amiibo announced & released within the time-frame these amiibo are being released from their announcement date.

Do you see the contradiction in hinging your theory around a precedent of release timing while completely ignoring the precedent of amiibos for completely different lines having nothing to do with each other?

You're just picking and choosing what you deem to be meaningful, reverse engineering an explanation for an outcome you want, ignoring the conflicting evidence. And you've chosen something, of which, btw, there are counterexamples. I mean, we have NES Zelda, OoT, MM and WW amiibos.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The unreleased Mario Kart is/was their priority. The BCP happened because they were able to repurpose Tour content without inhibiting the sequel's timeframe.

Is that a joke? BCP didn't just inhibit MK9, it essentially replaced it.

 

[Noipoi]

Is that a joke? BCP didn't just inhibit MK9, it essentially replaced it.

So you think there won’t be a new Mario Kart for the next console?