Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

Smash players coping and seething that they dont know how to play fighting games.

 

[Kirbeh]

Smash players coping and seething that they dont know how to play fighting games.

In fairness, most people who play video games in general still don't know how to play fighting games. They either complain about fireball and DP motions (without getting to any actual more difficult motions) or refuse to play entirely because they don't want to learn. And again, in fairness, fighting games have a higher skill floor, but if you can learn/remember all the stuff some other games require of you, fighting games are perfectly doable. But it's a niche genre for a reason, and that's unlikely to change.

Again, not knocking people for not playing them. For some people, the effort/time sink of a fighter aren't worth it when they just want to have some more immediate fun with their free time.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing is that Ryu, Ken, & Terry would have been much less of a hassle to much of the fandom had they been in something like Smash 64. Traditional fighters still occupied so much of the experiences/memories of the average player, even those that owned a Nintendo 64, so inclusion of fighting inputs would have gotten more of a shrug rather than a groan.

It's just that the past 25 years while fighting games are still just as popular, other game genres have gotten bigger and the experience of playing an arcade fighting title (and developing the muscle memory/kind of skill associated) is much less common with the bigger audience of gaming. That's not even getting into Smash itself popularizing the simple input platform fighter and even franchises like Street Fighter & Mortal Kombat dipping their toes into simplified settings that don't necessitate the player master more complicated button inputs.

Pretzel motions and so forth are a bit like lives in platformers; they're by no means archaic, but the expected experience and the tolerance for them is not as ubiquitous as it was circa the 90s/early aughts, especially with young people.

 

[Sucumbio]

QCF is total **** on a control stick and it is why I don't do well with any of them except Kazuya cause I can roll the stick and mash and get triple ewgf lol

 

[Kirbeh]

QCF is total **** on a control stick and it is why I don't do well with any of them except Kazuya cause I can roll the stick and mash and get triple ewgf lol

Really? QCF is the one that I hear most people have the easier time doing compared to others.

I've personally never played on an arcade stick, so I guess I'm just used to it on controller, but outside of the wackier SNK motions for a couple of their supers, the more standard stuff like QCF, SRK, etc. have never really been an issue. Occasionally reverse DPs screw me up, but thats more so because they're not too common so I'll forget and accidentally try to normal SRK.

720 motions suck tho, those I could do without.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I used to be really intimidated by standard fighting game controls until I actually just sat down with Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 and played it.

It takes practice, but it's like riding a bike. Once you get it, you never truly lose it. My advice to people who don't like QCF and the like is to just practice.

Or ya know... Just do them in a D-Pad. It makes it easier.

 

[Sucumbio]

Really? QCF is the one that I hear most people have the easier time doing compared to others.

I've personally never played on an arcade stick, so I guess I'm just used to it on controller, but outside of the wackier SNK motions for a couple of their supers, the more standard stuff like QCF, SRK, etc. have never really been an issue. Occasionally reverse DPs screw me up, but thats more so because they're not too common so I'll forget and accidentally try to normal SRK.

720 motions suck tho, those I could do without.

It's the one Sakurai talk about recently the one thing that made QCF difficult inputting a button just before and even more difficult a direction so the same stick AND backwards for some of these so yeah it's actually a gripe for me but because I can't use d pad. D pads like the ASCII ware with 6 turbos was god at SF2 on SNES .

 

[Wonder Smash]

I still like the faithfulness of the characters because I always like how it seems like they're taken straight from their games. It's a reason why I always knew Mega Man and Simon would be natural fits for Smash Bros gameplay, as their series feature platforming gameplay.

As for Hero, I'm just surprised at the amount of detailed such a character like him has. While it may seem overboard, considering what kind of series Dragon Quest is and how important it is the the RPG genre, I think it makes sense for a character like him to demonstrate what it's known for. Hero truly feels like an RPG character and that's the way I like. DQ is like RPG royalty.

Similarly, we all know how Street Fighter is important to fighting games, so I don't see what's wrong with giving Ryu and Ken traditional fighting game inputs to demonstrate that they come from traditional fighting games. Though, in the end, it's not like you have to use those inputs anyway. Still, I think these differences are worth putting when you think about their origins and how important their series are. I'd love to see more like that.

 

[fogbadge]

I used to be really intimidated by standard fighting game controls until I actually just sat down with Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 and played it.

It takes practice, but it's like riding a bike. Once you get it, you never truly lose it. My advice to people who don't like QCF and the like is to just practice.

Or ya know... Just do them in a D-Pad. It makes it easier.

so people who never learned to ride a bike are in trouble? then again in never learned UMVC3 either and i did alright. ish

 

[Swamp Sensei]

so people who never learned to ride a bike are in trouble? then again in never learned UMVC3 either and i did alright. ish

You should play UMVC3. It's super good

 

[fogbadge]

You should play UMVC3. It's super good

I did play it. I just didn’t learn it. When I said I did alright I meant in the game. Who can resist a game where phoenix wright can beat wolverine?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So with Mario RPG, Do you guys feel Geno would make base roster or DLC? (apologizes if this was brought up recently I don't have time to read 50+ pages)

 

[toonito]

I think Ryu is a well designed character for Smash. In fact I don't see how u can leave out motion inputs for his inclusion. His design is consistent with Sakurai's mantra of accesible to play yet rewarding to master. You don't have to use motion inputs to play him (or any of the FGCs) but if youre willing to learn and get familiar with his native controls he rewards the player due to the additional practice put in. Seeing how much stronger he becomes with motion inputs may inspire kids and adults to try and learn the commands so they can unlock his full potential. If you're not willing to do so there's nothing wrong as he's still a fun character to play.

Not to mention Smash Ryu is training wheels for the other characters as well as the genre. If you can master him Ken, Terry and Kazuya become that much easier to learn.

 

[Perkilator]

So with Mario RPG, Do you guys feel Geno would make base roster or DLC? (apologizes if this was brought up recently I don't have time to read 50+ pages)

It depends on what Square Enix wants along with how well the remake sells.

 

[DarthEnderX]

QCF is total **** on a control stick and it is why I don't do well with any of them except Kazuya cause I can roll the stick and mash and get triple ewgf lol

QCB with Terry is a much bigger issue. I've accidentally Crack Shot myself off a ledge so many times...

I still like the faithfulness of the characters because I always how it seems like they're taken straight from their games. It's a reason why I always knew Mega Man and Simon would be natural fits for Smash Bros gameplay, as their series feature platforming gameplay.

That's reasonable when the character comes from a 2D platformer.

It's less reasonable when they come from a turn based RPG, or an open world survival game.

So with Mario RPG, Do you guys feel Geno would make base roster or DLC?

Ultimate Deluxe? DLC(because everything will be).

Smash 6? Base.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I did play it. I just didn’t learn it. When I said I did alright I meant in the game. Who can resist a game where phoenix wright can beat wolverine?

Spoiler: Swearing

He can also kick Dark Phoenix's ***.

 

[Wonder Smash]

That's reasonable when the character comes from a 2D platformer.

It's less reasonable when they come from a turn based RPG, or an open world survival game.

Well, to me, that's the charm of it; seeing all these characters from these different genre together in one game.

It's also fun to speculate how characters from other genres or different kind of characters from the same genre would be play if they were in Smash. I often think about Doom Slayer and how much FPS elements he would bring to his moveset. They could go for something more simpler like a shooter-heavy character (like Mii Gunner) or they could make him more detailed like Hero and give him a selection of attacks to use. Personally, I prefer more the latter, though not the extent that even his most basic specials are reliant on it.

Then there's the beat'em up genre, which is arguably the most natural fit for Smash Bros gameplay. It's really easy to see how those kind of characters fit but it's also all the more reason why they should be in Smash already.

 

[Sucumbio]

So with Mario RPG, Do you guys feel Geno would make base roster or DLC? (apologizes if this was brought up recently I don't have time to read 50+ pages)

I'm thinking he's the first DLC to be revealed.

 

[Louie G.]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Really cool announcement, Jet Force Gemini is apparently also coming to Switch via NSO. Neat to see on its own, and encouraging that Nintendo and Microsoft's relationship remains tight - leasing games for NSO is a liberty certain other companies don't seem to want to grant (cough cough, Square Enix).

In Smash terms, I just wanna put it out there, although I'm sure its something many have agreed on before... I really think Banjo is here to stay. Microsoft clearly respects, or at least sees it in their best interest to respect, Rare's rich history with Nintendo and is quite generous with throwing that legacy content our way. They could have easily resold these separately as ports on the eshop. I believe this is as good of evidence as any to the way negotiations regarding these games may continue, I think as long as Microsoft doesn't blow it somehow this relationship with bear fruit well into the future.

The fact that we got Banjo-Kazooie on there was already a good omen in my eyes, and then Goldeneye after that, but if this will continue into the greater Rare catalogue it only serves to make that case stronger. Certainly if they see it as valuable to put these games on NSO for presumably relatively little financial gain then continuing to play ball for Smash seems like something they are eager to do. I feel like Banjo is practically as much of a "good will" hire as Mega Man now and I'm sure Sakurai / Nintendo would choose to bring them back if the price is right - which it seems to be.

 

[Gengar84]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Really cool announcement, Jet Force Gemini is apparently also coming to Switch via NSO. Neat to see on its own, and encouraging that Nintendo and Microsoft's relationship remains tight - leasing games for NSO is a liberty certain other companies don't see to want to grant (cough cough, Square Enix).

In Smash terms, I just wanna put it out there, although I'm sure its something many have agreed on before... I really think Banjo is here to stay. Microsoft clearly respects, or at least sees it in their best interest to respect, Rare's rich history with Nintendo and is quite generous with throwing that legacy content our way. They could have easily resold these separately as ports on the eshop. I believe this is as good of evidence as any to the way negotiations regarding these games may continue, I think as long as Microsoft doesn't blow it somehow this relationship with bear fruit well into the future.

The fact that we got Banjo-Kazooie on there was already a good omen in my eyes, and then Goldeneye after that, but if this will continue into the greater Rare catalogue it only serves to make that case stronger. Certainly if they see it as valuable to put these games on NSO for presumably relatively little financial gain then continuing to play ball for Smash seems like something they are eager to do. I feel like Banjo is practically as much of a "good will" hire as Mega Man now and I'm sure Sakurai / Nintendo would choose to bring them back if the price is right - which it seems to be.

Yeah, I think all this is a good sign that we’ll likely keep Banjo around. I’m really hoping that we can get a few more RARE characters in the future as well. I’d particularly love to see the Battletoads and Fulgore but Joanna Dark would be great at some point too. I never had the chance to play Jet Force Gemini but it always looked interesting. All these RARE games are tempting me to get NSO but it’s still a bit on the expensive side considering that I don’t really play online competitive games.

 

[Will]

Command is fun, I get that. But you have to remember that players don't get to choose their opponents. If you get matched up with Hero during ranked (or any mode really) and he top decks Thwack at some point and it kills, nothing you can really do about that, you're just suddenly down a stock.

In casual play I don't think it's a problem, but for ranked matches and actual tourneys, I don't think insta kills are great to have around. I mean sure, there's a chance he never gets it off unlike how G&W can actually combo into 9, but the fact that the chance of cheesing a stock just like that exists is inherently less fair. If Command Selection is retained as is, I do still think a toggle for such things would be a good compromise.

It doesn't affect the players who like things as they are and makes for a better competitive setting for those who opt to use it.

Spoiler: Ten Reasons Why I Disagree

I NEVER READ THE POST! TAKE THIS!!! TOPDECK RAAAAAHHHH!!!!

 

[chocolatejr9]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Really cool announcement, Jet Force Gemini is apparently also coming to Switch via NSO. Neat to see on its own, and encouraging that Nintendo and Microsoft's relationship remains tight - leasing games for NSO is a liberty certain other companies don't seem to want to grant (cough cough, Square Enix).

In Smash terms, I just wanna put it out there, although I'm sure its something many have agreed on before... I really think Banjo is here to stay. Microsoft clearly respects, or at least sees it in their best interest to respect, Rare's rich history with Nintendo and is quite generous with throwing that legacy content our way. They could have easily resold these separately as ports on the eshop. I believe this is as good of evidence as any to the way negotiations regarding these games may continue, I think as long as Microsoft doesn't blow it somehow this relationship with bear fruit well into the future.

The fact that we got Banjo-Kazooie on there was already a good omen in my eyes, and then Goldeneye after that, but if this will continue into the greater Rare catalogue it only serves to make that case stronger. Certainly if they see it as valuable to put these games on NSO for presumably relatively little financial gain then continuing to play ball for Smash seems like something they are eager to do. I feel like Banjo is practically as much of a "good will" hire as Mega Man now and I'm sure Sakurai / Nintendo would choose to bring them back if the price is right - which it seems to be.

Random fun fact: we've only had two SNES games added to NSO, and one of them was a pool game.

On the topic at hand, I wonder if there's still hope for DK64 and DKR to be added now that Jet Force Gemini is coming. Reminds me of that one leak from WAY back that suggested Ultimate would have JFG Spirits...

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I think all this is a good sign that we’ll likely keep Banjo around. I’m really hoping that we can get a few more RARE characters in the future as well. I’d particularly love to see the Battletoads and Fulgore but Joanna Dark would be great at some point too. I never had the chance to play Jet Force Gemini but it always looked interesting. All these RARE games are tempting me to get NSO but it’s still a bit on the expensive side considering that I don’t really play online competitive games.

guh huh

 

[Dinoman96]

Random fun fact: we've only had two SNES games added to NSO, and one of them was a pool game.

On the topic at hand, I wonder if there's still hope for DK64 and DKR to be added now that Jet Force Gemini is coming. Reminds me of that one leak from WAY back that suggested Ultimate would have JFG Spirits...

Yeah DK64 will come for sure, Nintendo technically owns it already (minus the obviously Rare owned stuff like the Jetpac minigame) and they already released it on Wii U VC. We just gotta wait it out.

Jet Force Gemini is such a fun pick because that's not even really considered to be one of Rare's very best and popular N64 games, so it really feels like the door is wide open for most if not all of Rare's N64 library to come over to NSO.

Blast Corps, along with Banjo-Kazooie, were actually planned for Wii U VC awhile back. Definitely shows how long this deal must have been in the making.

 

[Gengar84]

It’s all really exciting to finally see RARE games being brought back to Nintendo consoles after so many years. I just wish they weren’t locked behind the overpriced NSO+. What I really want is RARE Replay to be brought over to either the Switch or Switch 2. Still, I’m happy we’re seeing anything at all and buying NSO+ is still cheaper than an X-Box.

 

[Dinoman96]

It’s all really exciting to finally see RARE games being brought back to Nintendo consoles after so many years. I just wish they weren’t locked behind the overpriced NSO+. What I really want is RARE Replay to be brought over to either the Switch or Switch 2. Still, I’m happy we’re seeing anything at all and buying NSO+ is still cheaper than an X-Box.

It's been said a million times by now, but Rare Replay on Switch was never a realistic prospect just because of how much it relies on a special Xbox 360 emulator for a good chunk of its games. That's probably the reason it was never released on PC either, because it's effectively just a whole slew of emulated games and Microsoft prolly doesn't want people to bust those emulators wide open. Fun fact: the only actual natively ported game on that whole thing is...Grabbed by the Ghoulies, because IIRC Xbox emulation wasn't working right when Rare Replay was being made or something.

I've seen some people suggest that maybe they could make a special cut down version where BK, BT, and PD are replaced by their N64 counterparts through emulation and also perhaps put in Nintendo's Rare games (DKC1-3, DK64, SFA, also DKR) to replace the post-2002 games, but ultimately I always figured that Nintendo would be more willing to distribute their own Rare games on their own services on NSO rather than another company's compilation, and that it'd just be far easier for everyone involved to just ROM dump all of Rare's old games on NSO instead.

 

[Louie G.]

So this is a positive conversation topic I want to bring up, lightly colored in some concern about who will return and who won't, but ultimately just want to get some appreciation going for Smash's "surprise" characters and how fantastic of a selection I think these characters are.



I feel like some of these guys, particularly Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt, are severely underrated due to their slightly off-kilter playstyle but remain instantly recognizable to the masses. I remember when we used to call these guys "hardware" characters which is still fitting enough. ROB is rightfully acknowledged as being important for his role in getting the NES sold amidst a market skeptical toward home consoles, but I would say Wii Fit Trainer is very similar to this in spirit for a more modern age. Games like Wii Fit with extra peripherals and functions not generally associated with "video games" let the console appeal to a demographic that would not have bothered otherwise. I feel like Trainer gets sold short in this respect, I guess because the retro guys have more than a few years on her.

I hope all four of them can remain in the series moving forward, although I acknowledge the latter two are not some of the most popular additions. I'm not sure if the gameplay niche that WFT or Duck Hunt fulfill ever completely landed but I think they're some of the most imaginative characters on the roster. Do you guys have a favorite of these four, and do you think we'll see them continue to be a part of the series? Smash's celebration of Nintendo's rich and one of a kind history gives it so much character. I think I stand by saying Mr. Game & Watch is one of my favorite additions to the series ever.

 

[fogbadge]

So this is a positive conversation topic I want to bring up, lightly colored in some concern about who will return and who won't, but ultimately just want to get some appreciation going for Smash's "surprise" characters and how fantastic of a selection I think these characters are.



I feel like some of these guys, particularly Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt, are severely underrated due to their slightly off-kilter playstyle but remain instantly recognizable to the masses. I remember when we used to call these guys "hardware" characters which is still fitting enough. ROB is rightfully acknowledged as being important for his role in getting the NES sold amidst a market skeptical toward home consoles, but I would say Wii Fit Trainer is very similar to this in spirit for a more modern age. Games like Wii Fit with extra peripherals and functions not generally associated with "video games" let the console appeal to a demographic that would not have bothered otherwise. I feel like Trainer gets sold short in this respect, I guess because the retro guys have more than a few years on her.

I hope all four of them can remain in the series moving forward, although I acknowledge the latter two are not some of the most popular additions. I'm not sure if the gameplay niche that WFT or Duck Hunt fulfill ever completely landed but I think they're some of the most imaginative characters on the roster. Do you guys have a favorite of these four, and do you think we'll see them continue to be a part of the series? Smash's celebration of Nintendo's rich and one of a kind history gives it so much character. I think I stand by saying Mr. Game & Watch is one of my favorite additions to the series ever.

I love playing as wft and dhd so I hope they stick around with the other two. I do recall the support list for the dog being quite long before he was added

 

[Louie G.]

I love playing as wft and dhd so I hope they stick around with the other two. I do recall the support list for the dog being quite long before he was added

Yeah Duck Hunt Dog aka "Mr. Peepers" was always a fairly consistent retro-pick candidate. It's tough to say on a roster filled to the brim with iconic characters, but he's arguably one of the most notorious characters on here because of Duck Hunt's success and his infamous scathing laugh. I recall a lot of people relishing in the idea of finally being able to kick his ass after 30 years, which is invaluable.

Smash is always giving us characters in a pretty different way than we anticipate too. I remember suggestions that the Dog use the Zapper himself, or swing around ducks like nunchucks. I'd love to peek into another world where that's the one we got, because it sounds hilarious, but I think the way ours played out is pretty great.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah Duck Hunt Dog aka "Mr. Peepers" was always a fairly consistent retro-pick candidate. It's tough to say on a roster filled to the brim with iconic characters, but he's arguably one of the most notorious characters on here because of Duck Hunt's success and his infamous scathing laugh. I recall a lot of people relishing in the idea of finally being able to kick his ass after 30 years, which is invaluable.

Smash is always giving us characters in a pretty different way than we anticipate too. I remember suggestions that the Dog use the Zapper himself, or swing around ducks like nunchucks. I'd love to peek into another world where that's the one we got, because it sounds hilarious, but I think the way ours played out is pretty great.

yeah I’m glad they went this way too. particularly the design, all the fan ones that had him set permanently in the grin were a little unsettling

 

[chocolatejr9]

yeah I’m glad they went this way too. particularly the design, all the fan ones that had him set permanently in the grin were a little unsettling

If I wanted to guess, those designs were probably intended to sell him as a psycho of sorts. Maybe to help make the idea of attacking an otherwise normal dog seem more appealing? Though TBH, it just reminds me of that one VR horror game Duck Season, which I'm pretty sure was meant to be a horror parody of Duck Hunt.

 

[fogbadge]

If I wanted to guess, those designs were probably intended to sell him as a psycho of sorts. Maybe to help make the idea of attacking an otherwise normal dog seem more appealing? Though TBH, it just reminds me of that one VR horror game Duck Season, which I'm pretty sure was meant to be a horror parody of Duck Hunt.

I dunno I never got the vibe that it was meant to be creepy. I assumed it was just me

 

[chocolatejr9]

I dunno I never got the vibe that it was meant to be creepy. I assumed it was just me

Well I didn't mean to suggest that (though the comparison I made probably gave that impression), just that maybe they were trying to make him fit into Smash a bit better. Not that he necessarily needed it, he fits in just fine the way we got him. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

 

[fogbadge]

Well I didn't mean to suggest that (though the comparison I made probably gave that impression), just that maybe they were trying to make him fit into Smash a bit better. Not that he necessarily needed it, he fits in just fine the way we got him. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression.

oh I get you

 

[SPEN18]

So this is a positive conversation topic I want to bring up, lightly colored in some concern about who will return and who won't, but ultimately just want to get some appreciation going for Smash's "surprise" characters and how fantastic of a selection I think these characters are.



I feel like some of these guys, particularly Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt, are severely underrated due to their slightly off-kilter playstyle but remain instantly recognizable to the masses. I remember when we used to call these guys "hardware" characters which is still fitting enough. ROB is rightfully acknowledged as being important for his role in getting the NES sold amidst a market skeptical toward home consoles, but I would say Wii Fit Trainer is very similar to this in spirit for a more modern age. Games like Wii Fit with extra peripherals and functions not generally associated with "video games" let the console appeal to a demographic that would not have bothered otherwise. I feel like Trainer gets sold short in this respect, I guess because the retro guys have more than a few years on her.

I hope all four of them can remain in the series moving forward, although I acknowledge the latter two are not some of the most popular additions. I'm not sure if the gameplay niche that WFT or Duck Hunt fulfill ever completely landed but I think they're some of the most imaginative characters on the roster. Do you guys have a favorite of these four, and do you think we'll see them continue to be a part of the series? Smash's celebration of Nintendo's rich and one of a kind history gives it so much character. I think I stand by saying Mr. Game & Watch is one of my favorite additions to the series ever.

I would hate to lose Wii Fit or Duck Hunt. I think there's a lot more merit to them staying than people realize, as they're technically more prolific franchises than several of the other dormant or not-currently-relevant franchises that I would guess people are more convinced are coming back. In the end it could very well come down to how motivated they are to avoid cutting entire first party franchises, in which case these guys could get quite a boost.

G&W and ROB are very tricky to place priority-wise because they earn their merits in such unique ways; the two above are more straightforward sales-oriented cases for inclusion. I can't see G&W or ROB being high priority, and it seems they likely weren't in 4, but I would also guess that Sakurai is likely to value them more than a lot of fans would.

Because of Sakurai's views on roster balance, I don't see a scenario where all four are gone. I think Wii Fit is actually pretty safe given how seemingly importantly it was treated in 4, and how its moments of relevance are more recent. Out of the other three I think we will see at least one but potentially all three if, say, 45+ first parties are retained.

 

[Louie G.]

G&W and ROB are very tricky to place priority-wise because they earn their merits in such unique ways; the two above are more straightforward sales-oriented cases for inclusion. I can't see G&W or ROB being high priority, and it seems they likely weren't in 4, but I would also guess that Sakurai is likely to value them more than a lot of fans would.

I'm iffier on ROB but I think Mr. Game & Watch is kind of THE GUY when it comes to these weirdo characters. He's the original, he's a popular character to play, and presumably he is very easy to develop due to his design simplicity and static animation. I'm gonna assume that's why he's fairly "low priority" in comparison, since he can be turned around in likely a shorter amount of time than the average character. I agree about Sakurai potentially valuing these characters more than your typical fan, although I also think the average fan is pretty protective of G&W and ROB for nostalgia sake.

It's maybe a bit arbitrary, but I remember this pre-Smash 4 whiteboard doodle posted by Sakurai and it always struck me that Mr. Game & Watch was here alongside all these other obvious staples. I feel like he's one of those characters like Falcon or Ness who have kinda just cemented their legacy through sheer persistence throughout the course of the series.

In the end it could very well come down to how motivated they are to avoid cutting entire first party franchises, in which case these guys could get quite a boost.

Yeah, I think about this too and personally I value this a whole lot. Granted I also recognize these characters have some of the least amount of content to offer individually, particularly ROB who doesn't even have a stage. So I'm curious if they would end up being treated as more "second class" lower priority universes since they're not quite as cohesive. I hope that's a nonissue though because each of them bring something fresh to the roster and are new worlds all the same. I think the value of the characters individually should trump the secondary stuff.

Unfortunately even in some more generous roster scenarios you can only cut so many supporting characters and third parties before the competition becomes pretty stacked and those cuts become harder to justify. Just another frustrating conundrum in this puzzle that I'm still not sure what to make of.

 

[Oracle Link]

Speaking of nintendo vs Capcom there is a huge downside on a nintendo side the game would be incredibly Boring i mean 25 Nintendo Characters leaves NO Room for anyone unique instead i suggest a Mario Vs or Zelda Vs or something like that!
Other than that here is the icon of a Character whos owner would gladly lent him to sakurai!

The Reason why you can see his Face? Simple hes winking at you the player! Same with selecting him he would adress you!
Also hes me and is really powerful! Nah but seriously a mod for the mii swordfighter would be all it takes to make him real you can make a pretty convincing moveset for him funnily enough!
Also lets say sakurai would ask me i 100% would literally put everyone from that series witha slightly similar moveset onto his slot!
And you get two version of me Little overconfident me and depressed thinks he is worthless teen me!
If anyones interested i might make a moveset template for him? Also wait i didnt tell you hes Videospiel-Man!

also here are more icons:
Kid VSM Alt:

Teen Vsm (His mouth is covered by a bandana):

???:

the other 3 would require some effort!

 

[osby]

So this is a positive conversation topic I want to bring up, lightly colored in some concern about who will return and who won't, but ultimately just want to get some appreciation going for Smash's "surprise" characters and how fantastic of a selection I think these characters are.



I feel like some of these guys, particularly Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt, are severely underrated due to their slightly off-kilter playstyle but remain instantly recognizable to the masses. I remember when we used to call these guys "hardware" characters which is still fitting enough. ROB is rightfully acknowledged as being important for his role in getting the NES sold amidst a market skeptical toward home consoles, but I would say Wii Fit Trainer is very similar to this in spirit for a more modern age. Games like Wii Fit with extra peripherals and functions not generally associated with "video games" let the console appeal to a demographic that would not have bothered otherwise. I feel like Trainer gets sold short in this respect, I guess because the retro guys have more than a few years on her.

I hope all four of them can remain in the series moving forward, although I acknowledge the latter two are not some of the most popular additions. I'm not sure if the gameplay niche that WFT or Duck Hunt fulfill ever completely landed but I think they're some of the most imaginative characters on the roster. Do you guys have a favorite of these four, and do you think we'll see them continue to be a part of the series? Smash's celebration of Nintendo's rich and one of a kind history gives it so much character. I think I stand by saying Mr. Game & Watch is one of my favorite additions to the series ever.

Wii Fit Trainer is one of my favorite Smash characters ever - be it their moveset or personality. I think they're an extremely underrated addition, partially because of the Smash fanbase's weird disdain toward "casual games". Wii Fit is a historical game and Sakurai really made a fun character out of it.

This is an unpopular opinion but I seriously believe they are one of Smash's mainstay at this point - and probably not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[smashkirby]

So this is a positive conversation topic I want to bring up, lightly colored in some concern about who will return and who won't, but ultimately just want to get some appreciation going for Smash's "surprise" characters and how fantastic of a selection I think these characters are.



I feel like some of these guys, particularly Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt, are severely underrated due to their slightly off-kilter playstyle but remain instantly recognizable to the masses. I remember when we used to call these guys "hardware" characters which is still fitting enough. ROB is rightfully acknowledged as being important for his role in getting the NES sold amidst a market skeptical toward home consoles, but I would say Wii Fit Trainer is very similar to this in spirit for a more modern age. Games like Wii Fit with extra peripherals and functions not generally associated with "video games" let the console appeal to a demographic that would not have bothered otherwise. I feel like Trainer gets sold short in this respect, I guess because the retro guys have more than a few years on her.

I hope all four of them can remain in the series moving forward, although I acknowledge the latter two are not some of the most popular additions. I'm not sure if the gameplay niche that WFT or Duck Hunt fulfill ever completely landed but I think they're some of the most imaginative characters on the roster. Do you guys have a favorite of these four, and do you think we'll see them continue to be a part of the series? Smash's celebration of Nintendo's rich and one of a kind history gives it so much character. I think I stand by saying Mr. Game & Watch is one of my favorite additions to the series ever.

Honestly, I've always felt like these characters + the Ice Climbers are part of why I'm so attached to Nintendo's catalogue of characters so much, particularly the more retro/obscure/niche side of said catalogue. Just... good GOD, are these guys just fun to play as. Admittedly, I've always had a bit of trouble handling the WFTs, but that's only because of their relatively 'narrow' hitboxes', but that's not a TOTAL dealbreaker for me or anything.

I guess it also goes without saying that that's also why I'm NOT opposed to characters like Lark, Alice, Ando-Kensaku, Barbara, Tomoe, Zip and Zap, Lip, Dr. Lobe or a Style Savvy character and the like joining Smash Bros. at some point.

All of that being said, I agree with a lot of you here in that I don't see ANY of these folks leaving Smash anytime soon, barring technical difficulties or whatever.

 

[Kirbeh]

The surprise weirdos are among my favorites on the roster, I'd be sad to see any of them go. Barring any technical difficulties like with I hope they keep doing their best to keep them in and keep them coming. Off the wall deep cuts are always fun to see.