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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Gengar84

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For Johto I really love Chikorita and would enjoy using them.
My favorites from Johto are :229:, :215:, and :207: but I’ve never been able to put them in order since I like them all about the same. I’d love if any of them got into Smash but none of them really have the popularity needed to make that happen, unfortunately.
 
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chocolatejr9

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My question is... Would you have ever thought of Heracross without Crusade?
Unrelated, but I DO remember a Smash fangame that almost included Amigo from Samba de Amigo as an Assist Trophy, but it got cut. Did sorta plant the idea in my head, though...
 

DarthEnderX

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If Ayumi Tachibana comes as a newcomer in the next Super Smash Bros. game, I'd like to see what moves they think of putting her in, like all of us.
Naginata.



The distinction between planned and considered is so negligible in the context of characters who ultimately didn't make it and it's genuinely baffling that so many in the community care about the rather useless distinction.
Disagree.

"Considered" just means "thought about". And probably every character in gaming has been considered for Smash at one point or another. Making it a useless distinction.

But "planned" means, "this character was selected to be added, and was maybe even worked on some, before we had to cut them". The end result may be the same, but it's a significant difference in intention.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Disagree.

"Considered" just means "thought about". And probably every character in gaming has been considered for Smash at one point or another. Making it a useless distinction.

But "planned" means, "this character was selected to be added, and was maybe even worked on some, before we had to cut them". The end result may be the same, but it's a significant difference in intention.
Yeah, the distinction is important. Planned characters usually get included eventually. Considered characters usually don't.


Also to go back to a previous point of conversation, I do think that as far as a Gen 2 Pokemon went, the only real choices back then were Pichu, Marill and Togepi. They were the ones with the marketing back then. Scizor makes a ton of sense in hindsight, but I don't think it was much of a standout among other popular Pokemon back then. Same with Heracross except it isn't as popular as Scizor is now. Pichu really benefitted from being a possible clone.

Keep in mind, the Melee poll looked something like this...

1. Mewtwo
2. Mew
3. Ash
4. Random Pokémon (???)
5. Lugia
6. Meowth
7. Raichu
8. Maril
8. Bulbasaur
8. Togepi

Mewtwo clearly got in, but the most popular Gen 2 request was Lugia somehow??? Marill and Togepi somehow got more requests then Charizard. Those oddities aside...

:001: SAUR SUPREMECY:001:
 

RodNutTakin

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This Melee discussion makes me wonder, had the game been given another year and characters like Dedede, Wario, Diddy, Wolf squeezed in then, how do you think this would affect Brawl from a development standpoint? Would there be the same number of newcomers and cuts, or would the balance be tipped in one direction over the other? What characters would even serve as Brawl newcomers now that some of the major ones are veterans here?
 

Swamp Sensei

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This Melee discussion makes me wonder, had the game been given another year and characters like Dedede, Wario, Diddy, Wolf squeezed in then, how do you think this would affect Brawl from a development standpoint? Would there be the same number of newcomers and cuts, or would the balance be tipped in one direction over the other? What characters would even serve as Brawl newcomers now that some of the major ones are veterans here?
There'd be less cuts because there would be less characters to cut. If Melee wasn't rushed, we wouldn't have :falcomelee::drmario::pichumelee::ganondorfmelee::roymelee::younglinkmelee:.

Falco and Ganondorf could be added in Brawl, but the others wouldn't happen.
 

ZephyrZ

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New hypothetical. How would you people react if next game we finally get a new non-triforce Zelda character and it's this dude?
Look I like Master Kohga well enough and I wouldn't hate his inclusion. Especially if his movepool involes Sheikah runes and Zonai tech.

But at the same time I'd be like, really? We waited so long for an original Zelda rep and it's evil Tingle?
 

Oracle Link

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This:
1692440444801.jpeg

Like just use most of Smash Ultimates Stuff again change some cosmetics to make the game feel fresh and change some gameplay stuff arround that shouldnt be that impossible!
 

TheLamerGamer

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This:
View attachment 376366
Like just use most of Smash Ultimates Stuff again change some cosmetics to make the game feel fresh and change some gameplay stuff arround that shouldnt be that impossible!
This is just a full sequel. The only difference is it has no cuts. It arguably changes more than Ultimate did since most of its modes are from older games. I literally can't think if any proper distinction between this and a sequel, except maybe keeping the engine, but even then, plenty of games do that.

New hypothetical. How would you people react if next game we finally get a new non-triforce Zelda character and it's this dude?
Yes please. If we got a villain I'd much rather have Skull Kid or Ghirahim, but a comic relief character would be really fun, and he has a surprising amount of moveset potential.
 

Oracle Link

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BTW did anyone say Lego Nintendo?
NO????
Well here is my coverage on the rumors:
Its fine that i post that here right? This thread is half Nintendo Social anyways and all of my thread attempts hence kirby social fell flat!
 

NonSpecificGuy

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BTW did anyone say Lego Nintendo?
NO????
Well here is my coverage on the rumors:
Its fine that i post that here right? This thread is half Nintendo Social anyways and all of my thread attempts hence kirby social fell flat!
I’ll let it go through this time but for future reference post things like that in the actual social thread. This place is still first and foremost about Smash so we want to keep it that way.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Black Shadow from F-Zero series could be added as a newcomer and maybe as echo of Captain Falcon.
hmmm... Black Shadow's way larger and more muscular than CF though, the large discrepancy wouldn't allow for an echo imo. probably a semi clone, or even to put some of Ganondorf's pre-Ultimate moveset on

with a few original stuff maybe like those lightning chains he used in that one F-Zero GX story mode cutscene
 

Pupp135

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My favorites from Johto are :229:, :215:, and :207: but I’ve never been able to put them in order since I like them all about the same. I’d love if any of them got into Smash but none of them really have the popularity needed to make that happen, unfortunately.
Those would be cool pokemon to see appear in SSB games in some capacity. My favorite Jhoto pokemon is:200:, and its best chance is being a part of the pokeball item (it does have the paradox thing like Jigglypuff and Screamtail iirc).

This Melee discussion makes me wonder, had the game been given another year and characters like Dedede, Wario, Diddy, Wolf squeezed in then, how do you think this would affect Brawl from a development standpoint? Would there be the same number of newcomers and cuts, or would the balance be tipped in one direction over the other? What characters would even serve as Brawl newcomers now that some of the major ones are veterans here?
Melee with an extra year and its future consequences are complicated as there are many factors. If I had to guess how it would’ve played out, I think that Wario, Dedede, and maybe Olimar would’ve joined Melee in terms of unique additions (Source Gaming mentioned that Olimar was briefly considered, but I don’t know how far that would go). I’d like to say that Diddy joins, but it seems like he was in a licensing grey area to a point where DK Jr. was initially planned for Double Dash as DK’s partner. In terms of clones, I think that Falco, Young Link, and Ganondorf would‘ve still been added as they were all suggested, and I could see the Space World model still being used to bring in Ganondorf. Because of the extra year of development, Ganondorf might have a few unique changes, and Mewtwo and Mr. Game & Watch would be polished. Outside of fighters, Archanea, Ice Top, Sprout Tower, and Ditto would’ve been finished, the rights to Sukapon might’ve been obtained, and there would be more overall polish.

Going into Brawl, we’d probably lose at most Young Link and Mewtwo given that the two/three additions to my speculated Melee roster were high priority and/or prominent in Subspace. In terms of newcomers, we might’ve had Krystal added over Wolf, but I’m unsure what would follow after her. If I had to guess, some combination of Bowser Jr., Isaac, and Little Mac would be the next newcomers.

Here is a summary:
Melee with an Extra Year:
Wario, Dedede, and maybe Olimar join.
Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy are dropped.
Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, and Ganondorf are polished/modified.
Brawl based on the prior Melee roster:
Young Link and maybe Mewtwo are dropped.
Krystal possibly makes it over Wolf.
If there was enough resources for more fighters, some combination of Isaac, Little Mac, and Bowser Jr. might’ve made it.
 
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dream1ng

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This Melee discussion makes me wonder, had the game been given another year and characters like Dedede, Wario, Diddy, Wolf squeezed in then, how do you think this would affect Brawl from a development standpoint? Would there be the same number of newcomers and cuts, or would the balance be tipped in one direction over the other?
I don't think Diddy or Wolf would've been added with more time. I think they would've gone for other characters. Like Swamp said, the clones wouldn't be there - but if Sakurai was intent on another Star Fox character, Falco was chosen over Wolf due to looking more distinct, and I think that would've extended to a less derivative character as well, considering Sakurai was making up most of the moveset anyway.

And I think the reason Diddy wasn't in Melee at all, not even a trophy, was because he was tied up in litigation with Rare. I know other DK characters were trophies, but I think Diddy in particular was in flux because he was basically Rare's mascot (I mean Diddy Kong Racing was published by Rare) and I imagine they might've been less inclined to relinquish him.

So I think the only reality that saw Diddy playable in Melee is one in which Rare didn't leave around then.

What characters would even serve as Brawl newcomers now that some of the major ones are veterans here?
First off, we get Ganondorf as an original character. This is also still when Diddy gets added. Depending on how Star Fox played out in Melee, were there no second character, the chances of an original Star Fox character in Brawl would increase. And that could go any way between Falco, Wolf and Krystal. Though I think Krystal would offer the most in terms of uniqueness, and now they'd have the time for her, which was a reason Wolf was ultimately opted for.

Then if you had a spot for one more character? This may be a weird choice, but with Wario as a vet, they may still try to do something Mario-related. So maybe Bowser Jr (with a different moveset) or Toad. Other options (Waluigi, Paper Mario, Daisy, Geno, etc.) seem less likely.

Most of the existing series did actually expand from Melee to Brawl, so they probably wouldn't change in this hypothetical. One possibility is Goroh, considering F-Zero was still active at this time, and the character did have popularity. Of the unrepresented series, the one that stands out would be Golden Sun, so Isaac would be another possibility as well.

And then past that, any extra time may have just helped a character like Mewtwo return.

So, some mix of Ganondorf (the only definite one), Krystal/Falco/Wolf, Bowser Jr/Toad, Goroh, Isaac and Mewtwo.

King K. Rool if he was added much earlier.

Isaac from Golden Sun if he wasn't an Assist.

Maybe someone like... Chibi-Robo.
I think K. Rool actually needed the ballot considering Sakurai seemed fairly unaware of the demand beforehand. Once the ballot happened he was immediately given a costume and then made a character, but beforehand he was never anything more than a trophy.

Isaac maybe, yeah.

Chibi-Robo would've been too new and unestablished in 05. Something like Advance Wars or Custom Robo would've been likelier, were there to be another series past the existing new ones and Golden Sun. But I think it may have just been Golden Sun, with more focus on the existing franchises.

New hypothetical. How would you people react if next game we finally get a new non-triforce Zelda character and it's this dude?
You have no idea how fine I am with this.

The Zelda characters I want need to get more popular before they're plausible anyway.
 

SPEN18

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Not surprised to see Lugia there. And that one is still popular today. It isn't too big if Ridley and Charizard aren't.

But also that Melee poll is small enough that only so much weight can be given to it.
 

dream1ng

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For clones that's one thing, but for original characters, anyone expecting Black Shadow over Goroh is in for disappointment.

...though I guess you're already in for disappointment were you to expect... anything from F-Zero... really...

Where's that rumored GX remaster?

Not surprised to see Lugia there. And that one is still popular today. It isn't too big if Ridley and Charizard aren't.


I think it's a lot less weird for a character of widely variable size like Ridley, including having been of or close to playable size before, to show up than resizing a big ass legendary like Lugia.
 

SPEN18

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I think it's a lot less weird for a character of widely variable size like Ridley, including having been of or close to playable size before, to show up than resizing a big ass legendary like Lugia.
lugiazard.png

I posted this comparison with Zard before to show that it could work.

I don't even particularly want Lugia. But I'm unsurprised that people would've voted for it in a Smash poll in 1999. I would guess that there wasn't much talk back then about the size/scale of certain characters being an issue?
 

Nabbitfan730

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This Melee discussion makes me wonder, had the game been given another year and characters like Dedede, Wario, Diddy, Wolf squeezed in then, how do you think this would affect Brawl from a development standpoint? Would there be the same number of newcomers and cuts, or would the balance be tipped in one direction over the other? What characters would even serve as Brawl newcomers now that some of the major ones are veterans here?
Ngl, when looking back, I am glad Brawl's roster was a like reboot of sorts instead of just building on top of Melee's. Out of the Smash games in terms of choices Melee is the weakest especially of terms of representing Nintendo at the time.

From all the characters that planned and cuts to all the clones filling the gaps, you can tell that Sakurai was really crunched on time when came to Melee.

If Melee was given time, i say that Brawl would most likely be a more refined roster of Melee, maybe less newcomers than can what came. Sonic and Snake will make it. Since Diddy is already here, then Dixie would be no-brainer as clone to save time. Possibly Geno or Mega Man as one extra.

I remember Sakurai saying the former was planned for Brawl.
 
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Stratos

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Regarding which character will come as a newcomer from the Level-5 in the Super Smash Bros. series, many count on Jibanyan from Yo-Kai Watch franchise or Professor Hershel Layton. I am more thinking about Professor Hershel Layton.
 
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dream1ng

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Yet surprisingly on-brand.
Yep. :|

But who really knows. The last time there was a new F-Zero game in a major Nintendo presentation was the first time there was an Animal Crossing game.

View attachment 376371
I posted this comparison with Zard before to show that it could work.


That is, first of all, a cursed and disgusting image, and second, very much seems due to technical limitations, which I don't think will register in the canon of... most people, including those who make the decisions.

I mean when Wailord follows you in HG/SS, it's like... smaller than a tree. Yet any Skitty could tell you that's not really the case.

I don't even particularly want Lugia. But I'm unsurprised that people would've voted for it in a Smash poll in 1999. I would guess that there wasn't much talk back then about the size/scale of certain characters being an issue?
Well the poll predated the second movie and the second gen games, so people may not have even realized Lugia's actual size.
 

SPEN18

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Yes, Melee dropping the ball on newcomers left no shortage of slam-dunk picks for Brawl, making it easy for Brawl to look really strong. Though I think if Melee had done things better, Brawl would still have looked very strong even with a slightly lesser (but still likely strong) newcomer crop. You know, given things like the big SSE mode, the promise of wifi connection, and the presence of Sonic alone (along with any of the slam-dunk picks who inevitably would have still been left out of Melee even with more dev time).

Though Brawl still suffered as a result of Melee by bringing over some of the Melee-specific concepts that probably wouldn't have been in otherwise, like Falcondorf and Sheik. From a roster design standpoint it also copied Melee's strategy of filling things out with more clones than I would have liked.

The other thing that could have made Brawl's roster better (with the benefit of hindsight at least) was Sakurai realizing how the likes of Villager and Ridley could work rather than dismissing them.
 

ZephyrZ

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Ridleg is in Smash, the Iron Giant is in Multiversus and I can't believe we're having size debates in 2023.

Anyway it's stated really early on in Pokemon Legends: Arceus that all pokemon have the ability to shrink in so yeah, smol Lugia is arguably canon or at least canon-ish.
 

SPEN18

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very much seems due to technical limitations, which I don't think will register in the canon of... most people, including those who make the decisions.

I mean when Wailord follows you in HG/SS, it's like... smaller than a tree. Yet any Skitty could tell you that's not really the case.
How is it any different than Smash drastically changing the relative sizes of characters to fit with its own gameplay?

If your opinion is that scaled down Lugia looks ugly, that's fine, but personally I don't think it's any worse than what they did to the likes of Ridley and Charizard, who have a somewhat similar body type also.
 

fogbadge

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Regarding which character will come as a newcomer from the Level-5 in the Super Smash Bros series, many count on Jibanyan from Yo-Kai Watch Franchise or Professor Hershel Layton. I am more thinking about Professor Hershel Layton.
well Layton has been their best series iirc so yeah
 
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