Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

More like "Modern day guy dies and wakes in a fantasy Land and gets females".

so yes

 

[Megadoomer]

assuming next smash game is a deluxe edition or a port with everyone coming back which characters would you add if it follows the same number of newcomers as ultimate
-6 base newcomers
-5 new echoes
-13 DLC newcomers

Base newcomers:

1. Dixie Kong
2. Bandanna Waddle Dee
3. Koraidon/Miraidon (as alternate costumes for each other; I haven't played Scarlet, but they seem like they'd be identical in terms of moves)
4. Impa (ideally the Age of Calamity version)
5. Rayman
6. Crash Bandicoot

New Echo Fighters:

1. Octoling (echo fighter for Inkling)
2. Alph (echo fighter for Olimar; promoted from alternate costume and has Winged and Rock Pikmin instead of White and Purple ones)
3. Tails (echo of Sonic, though a Ken or Chrom-like echo where a few moves or specials are different)
4. Jeanne (echo of Bayonetta - ideally with the Bayo 2 design as default, though that's because I'm not a fan of her Bayo 3 design)
5. Coco Bandicoot (echo of Crash)

DLC newcomers

1. Ryu Hayabusa
2. Doomguy
3. Geno
4. Sol Badguy
5. Isaac (Golden Sun)
6. Dante
7. Sans
8. Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X)
9. Raven Beak (Metroid)
10. 2B
11. Porky (Earthbound)
12. Travis Touchdown
13. Master Chief

 

[chocolatejr9]

More like "Modern day guy dies and wakes in a fantasy Land and gets females".

Oh, so insert notable JRPG here.

 

[Will]

Oh, so insert notable JRPG here.

Pokémon Mystery Dungeon is more isekai than them.

 

[Aligo]

Oh, so insert notable JRPG here.

Paper Mario goes hard, doesn't it?

Also I realised both XC2 and three houses use beings equated to divinity as pacemakers!

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Not if you don't know what to change it to and, if you do, if that change matches up to what it previously was. Otherwise, they shouldn't bother. It being "outdated" or "old-fashioned" is irrelevant if it fits the character the best.

For me, Mario's fire ability has always been his most iconic and memorable powers and it's been like a staple throughout his entire series. So I'd rather stick with that but maybe change the way it attacks a little bit. Like I mentioned before, maybe shoot giant fireballs that bounce off the ground like the Ultra Flames in Super Mario RPG. (Hey, they might as well since Square-Enix is actually involved now)

Yeah. Mario Finale is fine the way it is. Maybe giving control of the fireballs and giving it much more damage would help.

Fans want change just mostly just to have and include more and more references stuff in when it doesn't make sense. Outside a few tweaks and exceptions like Ganon, most vets are fine the way they are.

Got to remember that have to fit with their overall core and moveset as well

 

[Noipoi]

3. Koraidon/Miraidon (as alternate costumes for each other; I haven't played Scarlet, but they seem like they'd be identical in terms of moves)

Hate to be that guy, but they're actually sorta different. Koraidon is primarily a physical attacker who stomps around and dino punches stuff, while Miraidon focuses on levitating and shooting energy beams. I dunno if they could be simple palette swaps.


Unless of course they were both in their ride forms, which would be hilarious

 

[Sucumbio]

I think the original design philosophy behind the Final Smash was that it's a super version of their neutral special. This essential stays true with a few exceptions. So it's important to keep that in mind when considering revamped Final Smashes. In Mario's case, unless they change his neutral b it'll still be a fireball. I like the idea of his fireball bouncing around, since that's something from the original Super Mario Bros. that separated his projectile design from the typical straight fire bullet that was so popular back then.

 

[Aligo]

Unless of course they were both in their ride forms, which would be hilarious

I think I can do one better, Have goldengo, which prevents the other fighter from using non-attacking tilts and specials due to good as gold.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Paper Mario goes hard, doesn't it?

You joke, but I distinctly remember TTYD seeing him get kisses from most if not all of the female party members...

 

[Aligo]

You joke, but I distinctly remember TTYD seeing him get kisses from most if not all of the female party members...

Exactly, mario speaks no lines yet always rolls for seduction in that game, and in super he helps others with romance instead. Paper mario is a relationship master it seems.

Also game and watch should feature as an Easter egg in the next paper mario game, both have 2 characters after all.

 

[osby]

I don't know if I want Smash to return to transformation Final Smashes.

Playing catching for half a minute whenever Bowser or Wario activates their FS is not the most fun I have in Smash games.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

I loved the previous Wario Man Final Smash. It's the only transformation Final Smash I ever enjoyed. It's hilarious. Wario just zooming everywhere like a nutty Brawl mod. You can run all you want, but there's no escape. Wario's coming for you. Incredible.

 

[Perkilator]

I don't know if I want Smash to return to transformation Final Smashes.

Playing catching for half a minute whenever Bowser or Wario activates their FS is not the most fun I have in Smash games.

Maybe trim down the transformation times to about 10-15 seconds?

 

[Megadoomer]

Hate to be that guy, but they're actually sorta different. Koraidon is primarily a physical attacker who stomps around and dino punches stuff, while Miraidon focuses on levitating and shooting energy beams. I dunno if they could be simple palette swaps.


Unless of course they were both in their ride forms, which would be hilarious

Oh, okay - my bad. (Pokemon Violet was the first Pokemon game I'd played through in a long time, and I haven't played Scarlet, so I figured they'd be pretty similar since they seemed functionally identical when being used as rides)

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Most of the veteran fighters are so outdated.

Not really. I think the vast majority of our veteran fighters are in a very good spot in my opinion. I think at most, five veterans could use a Bowser in Smash 4 style of revamp in the future. Most of them do an exceptional job of selling the fantasy of their series or character. Revamp some final Smashes, maybe if you must revamp them with an interesting new move, like Remote Bomb, FLUDD, or Phantom. But the vast majority of the veterans we got are in a great spot imo.

 

[Will]

Yeah. Mario Finale is fine the way it is. Maybe giving control of the fireballs and giving it much more damage would help.

Fans want change just mostly just to have and include more and more references stuff in when it doesn't make sense. Outside a few tweaks and exceptions like Ganon, most vets are fine the way they are.

Got to remember that have to fit with their overall core and moveset as well

What does a piece of Mario’s latest game not have versus a made-up fire move Sakurai made fifteen (excluding the earlier demos, we saw it in 2006 first, so really seventeen) years ago?

 

[MrMcNuts]

Late but I don't think timing will affect Noah, Xenoblade 3 got a GOTY nomination and was very successful and I also don't see another Xenoblade game coming that'll take it's place in the near future since MonolithSoft is working on other projects, he feels like a safe bet to me

Alear tho lmao

You know far more than me about the Xenoblade dev cycle so you're probably right lol

assuming next smash game is a deluxe edition or a port with everyone coming back which characters would you add if it follows the same number of newcomers as ultimate
-6 base newcomers
-5 new echoes
-13 DLC newcomers

Alright let's see

Base:

• Rayman
• Noah
• Waluigi
• Bandana Dee
• Dixie Kong
• Meowscarada

Echoes:

• Funky Kong
• Metal Sonic
• Dry Bowser
• Dark Meta Knight
• Zack

DLC

• 2B
• Alear
• Crash Bandicoot
• Axel Stone
• Shadow
• Shovel Knight
• Phoenix wright
• Isaac
• Doom
• Sans
• Toejam and Earl
• Bomberman
• Master Chief

Besides Toejam and Earl I tried to keep it somewhat realistic

 

[Perkilator]

Most of the veteran fighters are so outdated.

I think the only one that truly needs an overhaul is Kirby. For the other veterans, I’d say modernize their movesets while keeping the core idea the same.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Oh, so insert notable JRPG here.

I...don't think that happens in most JRPGs.

I don't know if I want Smash to return to transformation Final Smashes.

Playing catching for half a minute whenever Bowser or Wario activates their FS is not the most fun I have in Smash games.

Much like Transformation characters, the game got much better then they got rid of time-based FSs.

 

[Gengar84]

I...don't think that happens in most JRPGs.

Much like Transformation characters, the game got much better then they got rid of time-based FSs.

I’ll agree on the Final Smash point. I think they’re really cool in theory but in practice usually just causes the other player to run away the whole time like they do if someone picks up a Star Man power up. That’s probably something that’s more fun to use against the AI than other people. I’ve already stated my opinion on transform characters so I won’t touch on that for now.

 

[Aligo]

Late but I don't think timing will affect Noah, Xenoblade 3 got a GOTY nomination and was very successful and I also don't see another Xenoblade game coming that'll take it's place in the near future since MonolithSoft is working on other projects, he feels like a safe bet to me

Alear tho lmao

That is a fair point actually, may actually push for a fighter based on their new project, since that worked so well for xenoblade.

I also think that depending on how much of the tears of the kingdom DLC is loaded onto their teams a new release may come in the next couple of years, especially given that they truncated development of xenoblade 3 quite a while ago, and the game made heavy use of existing assets and mechanics.

Hey, maybe they will even make a sequel to X! ( On a unrelated note, a xeno warriors game would be great as it could maybe salvage the travesty of 3s plot...)

 

[Ivander]

More like "Modern day guy dies and wakes in a fantasy Land and gets females".

Oh, so insert notable JRPG here.

Are we referencing a specific game or something? I know the theme of modern character waking up in another world is not unknown to games, like say Final Fantasy X or Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, but compared to anime(especially nowadays), you really don't see this theme alot with video games, including JRPGs.

 

[osby]

Are we referencing a specific game or something? I know the theme of modern character waking up in another world is not unknown to games, like say Final Fantasy X or Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, but compared to anime(especially nowadays), you really don't see this theme alot with video games, including JRPGs.

Yeah, I don't think Smash fandom knows the difference between JRPGs and anime.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, I don't think Smash fandom knows the difference between JRPGs and anime.

there is?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Yeah, I don't think Smash fandom knows the difference between JRPGs and anime.

JRPG and Anime are often used as shorthand by parts of the Smash community broadly as "things I do not like". iirc someone once called Dragonborn another anime swordsman for example.

Who would have thought Corrin would have broken these people's brains that much that its still used like that almost eight years later.

 

[Perkilator]

Who would have thought Corrin would have broken these people's brains that much that it’s still used like that almost eight years later.

You guys think it wouldn’t be as bad if we got Azura instead

 

[HyperSomari64]

Yeah, I don't think Smash fandom knows the difference between JRPGs and anime.

Just like how they can't differentiate a platformer character from a cartoonishly-designed character.
Bomberman and PAC-MAN aren't scrimblo bimblo (they were in maze games before their respective platforming avenues)

 

[TCT~Phantom]

You guys think it wouldn’t be as bad if we got Azura instead

No, it would be pretty much as bad. People had their expectations way too high after Cloud and the promise of the ballot winner on the horizons. Bayonetta, while popular, was not a dominant fan request. She was on the radar as a popular pick, but not head and shoulders one of the big ones. She would lead to a little grumbling regardless. Now, these people are also getting an Anime Waifu from gasp Fire Emblem? A game not even out in the West?

They would foam at the mouth regardless. Just because it isn't Corrin doesn't mean Smash fans would be happy at all with any promotional pick at all in the final two reveals.

 

[Noipoi]

It’s all Corrin’s fault. This crime cannot go unpunished.

Ultimate Deluxe. Everyone is back (except Corrin)

 

[fogbadge]

I love it when you guys talk about the smash fandom as if you’re not part of it

 

[chocolatejr9]

I love it when you guys talk about the smash fandom as if you’re not part of it

TBF, that's how we know it's such a big problem...

 

[Noipoi]

I love it when you guys talk about the smash fandom as if you’re not part of it

Well it's not like fandoms are monoliths

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I love it when you guys talk about the smash fandom as if you’re not part of it

You're right. I forgot I can't critique society, because I partake in society.

I keep forgetting that. Those questionable youtube commenters keep telling me that and I just can't seem to remember.

 

[Aligo]

I love it when you guys talk about the smash fandom as if you’re not part of it

Well we are all part of the similar sounding but unrelated smush fandom, where people discuss the effects of hydraulic presses on fruit.

We just talk about smash because King K Rool supplies the presses.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I'm still upset by this fact: SEGA Genesis was not part of the Wii U's Virtual Console.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I love it when you guys talk about the smash fandom as if you’re not part of it

What does you saying that add to the conversation? Genuinely, what does mentioning that people on Smashboards are Smash fans while criticizing Smash fans broadly add to the situation? What does one "gotcha" moment that isn't even a gotcha moment add to the discussion?

Just because someone is a part of the Smash fandom does not mean they can't criticize parts of it. There is a ton of valid criticisms you can laud at every aspect of the Smash community. Be it speculation for the next smash game or the various competitive smash scenes, there is plenty of criticize. Are there worse fandoms? Sure, but the Smash fandom has plenty of issues. People using JRPG or Anime or Scrimblo Bimbo to describe anything they don't like is just the tip of the iceberg. We could talk about how the Smash community has harassed certain players for their competitive character choices for years. We could talk about how the community's issues that came to light in 2020. There are issues throughout the smash community, be it on a macro level or on a micro level, such as in twitch chats or sites.

Would you rather we just say the Smash fandom as a community is perfect? Would you rather turn a blind eye to the systemic issues in competitive play that women, minorities, and children faced for years until some of the past transgressions came to light? Would you rather we not talk about how some Smash fans take speculation to such an extreme that anything they don't like is heresy and any criticism towards their most wanted is an existential threat to their well being? Would you rather the Smash community pretend that there is not some mutual animosity between certain subsections of the Melee and Ultimate community? No, we should talk about the issues present within the Smash community.

 

[SPEN18]

You guys think it wouldn’t be as bad if we got Azura instead

It's interesting to think about, even though we'll never know exactly how it would have been. People wouldn't have had the "all sword users are the same" mentality to lean into with Azura; having an obvious commonality between the purported offenders made it easier for the complaints to latch onto even a lot of casual fans that don't normally care as much about things like proportional representation, roster diversity, or shill pickings. Maybe people would have gone harder on the "blue-haired anime" stuff rather than the sword-wielding specifically, since Azura does have blue hair. The core problems of adding to an FE roster that many already thought was too big in base and adding a character so early in their lifetime would still have been there.

 

[fogbadge]

every time i think it couldn't be more plain that i was being saracstic

TBF, that's how we know it's such a big problem...

see this one gets it

Well it's not like fandoms are monoliths

what about monolith's fandom?

You're right. I forgot I can't critique society, because I partake in society.

I keep forgetting that. Those questionable youtube commenters keep telling me that and I just can't seem to remember.

i see you too are a fan of the saracstic

Well we are all part of the similar sounding but unrelated smush fandom, where people discuss the effects of hydraulic presses on fruit.

We just talk about smash because King K Rool supplies the presses.

where can i get these k.rool presses?

What does you saying that add to the conversation? Genuinely, what does mentioning that people on Smashboards are Smash fans while criticizing Smash fans broadly add to the situation? What does one "gotcha" moment that isn't even a gotcha moment add to the discussion?

this coming from the user who tried to shut down every conversation about cuts cause you don't like it?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of the issue with Corrin was the specific context of their release. Smash was getting its first DLC and for the most part that was split into beloved third party icons (like Ryu and Cloud) or well liked Smash vets (Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy). Even Bayonetta was viewed by a lot as a surprising, but novel addition given the nature of her franchise.

Having the first ever Nintendo newcomer DLC to Smash be from a relatively new FE game was a scenario which (fairly or unfairly) had various people wondering why other first party characters (new or old) weren't given that shot. That Corrin may have simply been easier to implement and/or that the company simply didn't realize the popularity of character like K Rool until it was too late to practically get them in to Smash 4 were concepts lost in the haze of accusations about Fire Emblem bias and bitter remarks about shill picks.

In hindsight, its clear Nintendo was doing a delicate balancing act of getting relatively safe and prudent fighters for Smash 4 DLC while already starting work on Smash Ultimate, but at the time it came across to many as tone deaf, especially when the company was frequently seen as out of touch already in that time period.