Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Opossum]

The main thing is that Smash is meant to be a celebration of gaming.

The lack of stuff like black or LGBT people is more or less an issue of the gaming industry as a whole, and the Smash devs would need to make some heavy digging to find multiple characters that add "representation" without most of them being either too obscure, not major enough of a character to accurately represent the source material as a whole or, in the case of someone like Elma, too much of a legal nightmare (Sony owns XCX tracks).

Also, the very idea that someone is added for what they are rather than what they do or which game they're from is pretty much the point where Smash stops being Smash. Instead of being a celebration of gaming, it'd be a celebration of SJWs.

Those last two sentences are hella gross, dude. Very gamergate-y.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Those last two sentences are hella gross, dude. Very gamergate-y.

It kinda came off wrong, but what I was trying to say is that what should always matter most in a game like Smash is moveset potential and/or how influential a character is.

The moment it stops being the priority when seeking characters is the moment it stops being itself, regardless of what outprioritizes it.

Just look at how PSASBR did with it's mostly-crosspromotional roster with none of the retro all-stars. Now, imagine if Smash did the same. Could you say it feels like the same franchise if it did that?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Another question: Should Smash 6 focus less on representation based on relevance, fan demand and franchise representation and focus more on real life representation such as race, sexuality, genders? for example characters being picked based on certain criteria like being female, gay, poc, non-binary?

Like what this dude says here about serious concerns

https://twitter.com/VillageArtDump/status/1455552200172883968?t=g3EcXMfXcs5nfFL7kupgZA&s=19

This is a symptom of the gaming industry more than Smash.

Smash has been including more options for different races and genders for a while now and each game we get more and more options. I'd say it cares. It's just that Smash doesn't make it's own characters.

It's also frustrating that the two blatantly canonical bisexual characters (Byleth and Corrin) are straight up ignored. Just like real bisexual people. It's also frustrating that Asian people aren't counted as PoC. I find that low key racism.

As for just putting a character in just because they are of a certain race, sexuality, etc. That doesn't feel right. They still need to stand on their own two feet. There are lots of amazing PoC, LGBTQ, etc characters out there. To find out that they got picked primarily to fill a quota is... mixed.

TLDR: Urbosa would be rad as hell.

Can we have an honest discussion about diversity without immediately slinging "SJW" and "Gamergate" around?

It's reductionist, politically charged language that will overshadow any real discussion we can have. Diversity is important to discuss, so let's please discuss it with some dignity.

 

[Dan Quixote]

On this topic, Honestly the best way to support persecuted groups like black people or LGBT people isn't even to give them characters in the video games like y'all are discussing, though you should still do that since it makes people feel nice. The real solution is to HIRE those people in REAL LIFE so that they get paid and actually have their lives made easier. Hire black programmers and pay them money! Hire Hispanic soundtrack composers and pay them money! Hire trans voice actors and pay them money! Quickest and easiest way to elevate them in the industry.

Plus there'll probably be some sort of trickle down effect that'll end up including more of these groups as video game characters if they entrench themselves in the industry anyway...

 

[PeridotGX]

Another question: Should Smash 6 focus less on representation based on relevance, fan demand and franchise representation and focus more on real life representation such as race, sexuality, genders? for example characters being picked based on certain criteria like being female, gay, poc, non-binary?

Like what this dude says here about serious concerns

https://twitter.com/VillageArtDump/status/1455552200172883968?t=g3EcXMfXcs5nfFL7kupgZA&s=19

Adding a character solely because they're part of a minority feels somewhat reductive, if you ask me. Take Frisk from Undertale. In this situation, they wouldn't be added because Undertale was a masterpiece that was largely created by only two people, they would be added because we needed a character who uses they/them pronouns. Don't get me wrong, representation is important and the industry has a ways to go, but I think it's much more meaningful if a character who is a minority gets in because they as a character matter.

Also, a character being a minority might not impact people of that minority. I'm bisexual, and I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if Corrin didn't make it back in the next Smash game. I'm not trying to speak for everyone, not even everyone who's bi. I'm also white, male, and cis, so I have a relatively (for lack of a better term) privileged viewpoint.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

Riot and maybe EA. and of course Activision Blizzard, controversies aside

 

[Gengar84]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

I would have said Activision/Blizzard before all the controversy. I think that will drastically hurt their chances unless they address all their issues and remove the problematic employees by the next Smash. I can see League of Legends or potentially Mortal Kombat get a character in the next game. I know MK has its own hurdles but I don’t see it as impossible.

 

[Sucumbio]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

Rockstar maybe.... Or Activision. 3D Studios.... There's honestly so many but it's hard to say who would be considered a good shot.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

I'm gonna say Epic Games just to bait the Fortnite haters

Joking aside, I could actually see Fortnite in Smash

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

Personally, my own money is on Activision, mostly due to Crash. However, Epic is a genuine possibility, as is Yacht Club for our boy Shovel Knight :D

 

[ForsakenM]

Another question: Should Smash 6 focus less on representation based on relevance, fan demand and franchise representation and focus more on real life representation such as race, sexuality, genders? for example characters being picked based on certain criteria like being female, gay, poc, non-binary?

Like what this dude says here about serious concerns

https://twitter.com/VillageArtDump/status/1455552200172883968?t=g3EcXMfXcs5nfFL7kupgZA&s=19

Short Answer: Absolutely not, this is stupid.

Long Answer:

Spoiler: Might Hurt Sensibilities, I have no idea. Don't believe I made any insults though.

I could make a joke here and just repeat the same thing, but I'll go into more detail.

Representation like this doesn't matter. Don't worry, I understand people just flared their nostrils at me in disgust, but it's true and I'll explain.

Is Smash a video game about ideals? Yes, and that ideal is celebrating gaming. Is gaming all about minorities? Nope, not at all, nor should it be.

Is Smash a video game about representation? Yes, representing beloved and iconic gaming characters and franchises. What does that have to do with skin color, gender, and sexuality? Not a damn thing!

See, when people focus on this so hard that they just zone in and say 'Smash doesn't have enough black or female characters!' I find them to be the same people who call Sakurai racist when posting certain pictures of Spirit events without any knowledge about Sakurai as a person nor what is truly means to be racist. These people don't care about Smash as a game: they care about their agenda and ideals, and rather than making content of their own that supports this, they force everyone else to meet their standards of to suffer and be slandered.

If you care about Smash as a game, then you are able to let your ideals take a backseat for the betterment of it. We need characters people love from gaming just because they love them, not for stupid quotas to please a recently-surging way of thought. How would you feel if Master Chief never got in because we had to focus on characters from games that were minorities now? Wouldn't you find that a bit dumb? Don't you think Chief represents gaming history better than a character from Amorous? What about Crash over Floofty from Bugsnax (jesus), or does Floofty represent gaming better because Floofty uses different pronouns than most? Should a character from Goodbye Volcano High (I'm disappointed in myself for remembering the name of the game) because they are homosexual or call themselves non-binary instead of Dante because Devil May Cry is a huge series that people love?

By the by, I just did a search, and there are a PLETHORA of characters who would classify as LGBT in gaming, especially the last couple years or so (which makes sense) but even in earlier gaming there was representation. None of them are really massive parts of there games and that is fine, but some of them are and yet none of them need to be in Smash.

Here's the thing, and this is gonna get me flak but it's pure honesty: minorities are yelling about proper representation in everything...but they are minorities, which means less of them as a demographic than others. Thus, if you are in a minority, not being in every work of fiction or even not in most is actually fairly accurate if that work is based in reality of some sort: there are just less of you in general than others. You don't NEED to be personally represented in every work of fiction ever made, you can relate or identify with characters or media that isn't just like you. I'm Autistic, and I don't complain about not having enough works of fiction about people on the spectrum or not having enough Autistic people working in popular media. It's harsh to say this, but that's because I'm not so one-dimensional that the most obscure part of me is what I find to me the most important. Being who I am means a collective of different things, not just one thing in particular, and I can and often relate to characters who are not Autistic and more than not I can't relate with those who are because of how people portray Autism in media...which is another problem that pushing for representation in all media instead of making your own projects, and I'm sure people from all walks of life would agree that there is a lot of token representation in media.

If you think you need more representation, be the one to create that. Just don't be surprised if or when it doesn't go over well with the majority if you are catering to a minority. Hell, who knows, you could make massive success though. Make a game that features a black character or an LGBT character that is massively successful and maybe it will see it's way to Smash some day...though keep in mind Japan's culture as well as how people view certain communities and that Smash is 'for good boys and girls.' I'm not making claims, I'm just stating what is obvious and that you should keep that in mind.

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

I have no idea, but I pray it's not EA or Take Two.

 

[Yamat08]

Another question: Should Smash 6 focus less on representation based on relevance, fan demand and franchise representation and focus more on real life representation such as race, sexuality, genders? for example characters being picked based on certain criteria like being female, gay, poc, non-binary?

Like what this dude says here about serious concerns

https://twitter.com/VillageArtDump/status/1455552200172883968?t=g3EcXMfXcs5nfFL7kupgZA&s=19

No, and these types of "suggestions" are pure cancer.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No, and these types of "suggestions" are pure cancer.

No.

They are not.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Smash 6 should need a Sora/Kyo Kusanagi/Reiji Arisu/Captain N style of main hero protagonist that visits all of the video game worlds. And that's the best idea i had and i hate it

 

[Yamat08]

Hyrule warrior sequel better have playable Morshu

LOL! Morshu is best CD-i!

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Smash 6 should need a Sora/Kyo Kusanagi/Reiji Arisu/Captain N style of main hero protagonist that visits all of the video game worlds. And that's the best idea i had and i hate it

As you should. Smash6 doesn't "need" anything like that. It's gone the past 5 games (6 counting the Smash4 split) just fine without it. At most, Smash seems to have mostly centralized around Kirby (Sakurai's baby) and Mario (the face of Nintendo and arguably Mr. Video Game himself).

 

[dream1ng]

Those last two sentences are hella gross, dude. Very gamergate-y.

Well the reverse of that is tokenism. I don't think it's inherently wrong to want Smash to operate as a meritocracy.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter?

Ubisoft?

They are not.

They're not great.

 

[osby]

Just look at how PSASBR did with it's mostly-crosspromotional roster with none of the retro all-stars. Now, imagine if Smash did the same. Could you say it feels like the same franchise if it did that?

PSASBR actually had a good number of retro and legacy characters.

People just ignore them because they weren't third parties.

 

[Calamitas]

The lack of stuff like black or LGBT people is more or less an issue of the gaming industry as a whole, and the Smash devs would need to make some heavy digging to find multiple characters that add "representation" without most of them being either too obscure, not major enough of a character to accurately represent the source material as a whole or, in the case of someone like Elma, too much of a legal nightmare (Sony owns XCX tracks).

That last part has never been outright confirmed, and seems very doubtful to me. Sony only ever distributed the soundtrack, but I heavily doubt that they own it. Also, Elma's DLC appearance in Xenoblade 2 was pretty obviously a rather last-minute decision, and yet, Monolith Soft had no issue getting back two tracks from X on what must've been a rather low budget. The idea that Smash of all things wouldn't be able to get the music seems just silly.

 

[Geno Boost]

LOL! Morshu is best CD-i!

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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As you should. Smash6 doesn't "need" anything like that. It's gone the past 5 games (6 counting the Smash4 split) just fine without it. At most, Smash seems to have mostly centralized around Kirby (Sakurai's baby) and Mario (the face of Nintendo and arguably Mr. Video Game himself).

Ngl I legit do want to see Morshu in smash it’s probably gonna be one of the craziest reveal and pick out there due to the fact nintendo do want to erase that piece of their history and yet CD-i games would be a part of their biggest video game celebration
However if Nintendo loved to reference Virtual boy in many of their games then what’s stopping them from referencing the CD-i games?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The main thing is that Smash is meant to be a celebration of gaming.

The lack of stuff like black or LGBT people is more or less an issue of the gaming industry as a whole, and the Smash devs would need to make some heavy digging to find multiple characters that add "representation" without most of them being either too obscure, not major enough of a character to accurately represent the source material as a whole or, in the case of someone like Elma, too much of a legal nightmare (Sony owns XCX tracks).

Also, the very idea that someone is added for what they are rather than what they do or which game they're from is pretty much the point where Smash stops being Smash. Instead of being a celebration of gaming, it'd be a celebration of SJWs.

LGBT characters in gaming aren’t too hard to find, just add another character from Fire Emblem Three Houses like Edelgard or Rhea

 

[Theguy123]

What's a non-Microsoft western company y'all think has a very good shot of getting a fighter? Curious.

probably Ubisoft. Could see ea taking that place though. Ubisoft has the upper hand through with them working on a Mario spin-off franchise currently.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That last part has never been outright confirmed, and seems very doubtful to me. Sony only ever distributed the soundtrack, but I heavily doubt that they own it.

Even if they don't own it and only distributed it, they'd still need to be talked to anyway.

Just ask Chuggaconroy, who's having issues with them copyright striking his second LP of EarthBound because Sony published its soundtrack.

I'm never going to say Sony owns its music because obviously they don't, but that's not stopping them from being assholes.

Sony has so much damn pride and ego that they think they own everything that touches them.

Also, Elma's DLC appearance in Xenoblade 2 was pretty obviously a rather last-minute decision, and yet, Monolith Soft had no issue getting back two tracks from X on what must've been a rather low budget. The idea that Smash of all things wouldn't be able to get the music seems just silly.

Being fair, they didn't need a lot of tracks for XC2; Shulk and Fiora didn't come with a lot of tracks either despite having far more planning behind their addition.

But maybe the issue is getting enough tracks? I don't think Nintendo and Sakurai want another pre-DLC FF7 situation.

 

[Geno Boost]

Another question: Should Smash 6 focus less on representation based on relevance, fan demand and franchise representation and focus more on real life representation such as race, sexuality, genders? for example characters being picked based on certain criteria like being female, gay, poc, non-binary?

Like what this dude says here about serious concerns

https://twitter.com/VillageArtDump/status/1455552200172883968?t=g3EcXMfXcs5nfFL7kupgZA&s=19

sounds bad
i actually would like a black character in smash such Mr. Sandman and CJ but i dont see this criteria of being black as important or a big factor to their inclusion
smash should just keep on being a celebration of gaming and extend it
no need for propaganda picks
and i say this as an arab muslim i dont need Rashid from Street fighter 5 or Shaheen from Tekken 7 or Siba from Virtual Fighter in smash

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Imagine Boyfriend from FNF being a Mii costume in Smash Bros. 6 (I count 3DS and WII U as one entry).
Other Indie mii costumes I could wanna see are:

• Alien Hominid (Gunner)
• Meat Boy Hat
• QUOTE (Gunner)

 

[ForsakenM]

sounds bad
i actually would like a black character in smash such Mr. Sandman and CJ but i dont see this criteria of being black as important or a big factor to their inclusion
smash should just keep on being a celebration of gaming and extend it
no need for propaganda picks
and i say this as an arab muslim i dont need Rashid from Street fighter 5 or Shaheen from Tekken 7 or Siba from Virtual Fighter in smash

As a fat white Autistic man, I need Rashid in Smash.

RRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Garteam]

I think taking any western political concern into account when decisions about Smash Bros feels a little bit icky simply because you're imposing domestic values onto a foreign product. It, IMO, straddles the line of cultural imperialism when Japanese creators are not able to make the art they want because people across the ocean demand it conforms to their beliefs and sense of political moralty.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

I don’t think Nintendo/Smash team cares too much about black or lgbt representation. If they put a character from that group (example: Tracer from Overwatch) they will not do it thinking “hey lets include a lgbt character to please these fans”, instead they just want to do a collaboration with that specific IP.

Regarding other western publishers: aside from classic examples like ubisoft or activision, I can see them adding something related to fortnite in Smash. At least a mii costume…

 

[Geno Boost]

i would like my culture to represented in Smash but not as a character but more like i need this iconic metal slug stage we even already got the music of that place represented with what we got from SNK in smash

it looks really good!
the only desert stage we got in smash is the edgy mario brawl stage which i dont like or choose and feels very empty and lifeless on the back

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

i would like my culture to represented in Smash but not as a character but more like i need this iconic metal slug stage we even already got the music of that place represented with what we got from SNK in smash

it looks really good!
the only desert stage we got in smash is the edgy mario brawl stage which i dont like or choose and feels very empty and lifeless on the back

This Metal Slug stage could be perfect for Smash.
Also, better Smash should add Marco Rossi as Another SNK rep for Smash.
Screw Athena, Marco Rossi is better.

 

[Geno Boost]

This Metal Slug stage could be perfect for Smash.
Also, better Smash should add Marco Rossi as Another SNK rep for Smash.
Screw Athena, Marco Rossi is better.

Metal Slug was really fun to play and it was my first time to ever see my own culture represented in a video game in a good game
I will take Marco over her anytime I prefer Athena as a 3rd rep for SNK anyway

 

[Momotsuki]

Ah yes, the Next Smash speculation is going swimmingly, using the term "SJW" in 2021. Yes, very good. Amazin'.

 

[osby]

I think taking any western political concern into account when decisions about Smash Bros feels a little bit icky simply because you're imposing domestic values onto a foreign product. It, IMO, straddles the line of cultural imperialism when Japanese creators are not able to make the art they want because people across the ocean demand it conforms to their beliefs and sense of political moralty.

I don't think the discussion is necessarily political when it's simply people wanting certain demographics they belong to be represented in Smash. We know Sakurai previously made conscious decisions to include more female characters and this wasn't a political decision either. The western-eastern divide exists but I'd argue that it's a cultural one.

If people make their desires known, I don't think there's any good reason for Nintendo to at least consider it. As others said, Smash is sold worldwide and made decisions specifically to appeal to non-Japanese audiences before.

Agreed that the lack of any IRL minorities in Smash shouldn't be a morality issue, as they are equally as likely to be underrepresented in video games, hence less likely to be included overall. But saying that this issue is purely rooted in western politics and shouldn't be discussed at all feels like it's missing the point.

 

[Sucumbio]

Agreed that the lack of any IRL minorities in Smash shouldn't be a morality issue, as they are equally as likely to be underrepresented in video games, hence less likely to be included overall.

This.

And to add to this what representatives are present in video games used to be terribly stereotypical which hampers their inclusion. At least today's game companies try to do a better job of it.

So this got me thinking... I don't play splatoon but the alt costumes in smash that represent black skin color is that also available in the source game? I found it to be a legit attempt by smash development to be more racially inclusive but I wanted to clarify if it's a graphical equivalent to black face or if there are actual black characters in the game. Obviously just offering dark tones pallets for the sake of inclusion is bad but ya never know... Nintendo hasn't always been the best at being sensitive to these sorts of things.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Honestly on this topic, as a black man myself, I find the idea of picking someone just because they were black kinda insulting. Just gives the idea they were only added for the skin color and not their merits, feeling like people like us are only worthy because of melanin levels and not our individual achievements.

I was arguing against the tweet myself because I personally don't agree

I think taking any western political concern into account when decisions about Smash Bros feels a little bit icky simply because you're imposing domestic values onto a foreign product. It, IMO, straddles the line of cultural imperialism when Japanese creators are not able to make the art they want because people across the ocean demand it conforms to their beliefs and sense of political moralty.

This is the best response I say. People particularly in West feel the need to impose their wills on others whilst the speaking for others not realizing not everywhere is America and different cultures have different standards for most things.

On this topic, Honestly the best way to support persecuted groups like black people or LGBT people isn't even to give them characters in the video games like y'all are discussing, though you should still do that since it makes people feel nice. The real solution is to HIRE those people in REAL LIFE so that they get paid and actually have their lives made easier. Hire black programmers and pay them money! Hire Hispanic soundtrack composers and pay them money! Hire trans voice actors and pay them money! Quickest and easiest way to elevate them in the industry.

Plus there'll probably be some sort of trickle down effect that'll end up including more of these groups as video game characters if they entrench themselves in the industry anyway...

Good response too. Some companies used inclusivity as a smoke screen against the real issues. Getting jobs would do much more than color change in a game

 

[Laniv]

...Speaking as a black guy, I wouldn't say no to Doc Louis or Barret Wallace in Smash.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

...Speaking as a black guy, I wouldn't say no to Doc Louis or Barret Wallace in Smash.

But I'll say yes if Rodin was Playable.
Or CJ from GTA, maybe even Lamar Davis from GTA V.

 

[Geno Boost]

Unpopular opinion but I always want to play as light blue skinned characters in video games but that option is very rarely present even when it comes to customization
In fact I am already developing a video game and the main character is light blue skinned and people did find it to be very unique cool design

 

[Wonder Smash]

No.

They are not.

Suggestions like that should be kept far away from Smash.