Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

Oh my god are you serious

Friends, Worldlings, Bayonutters. Hear ye!#PlatinumGames #Nintendo #Bayonetta #Bayonetta3 #Bayonutters #Boycott #NintendoEurope #NintendoAmerica #NintendoJapan pic.twitter.com/h9lwiX2bBt

— Hellena Taylor (@hellenataylor) October 15, 2022

is that below the average I take it?

 

[Oracle Link]

Honestly eventho Kirby Charcters are still overhated weve reached a point where Kirby Deserves Not Only just Bandana Waddle Dee but 6-8 Characters Total (Including Dedede, Meta and Kirby!) Of Course Zelda does too but not many would argue with that! and consider im refering to Characters who were in Multiple Kirby Games as either Main Villains or as Playable Characters:
Ahem
Bandana Dee Hes in F***in Everything including being the only other Playable Character in the first 3d Instalment!
Galacta Knight Major sexret Boss In Multiple Kirbys
Morpho knight Hes the new galacta Knight so yeah
Whispy MAjor Boss Comparable to Bowser jr
Kracko same is Also Playable Via Adeline in star allies
Dark Matter Representative of most Major Void related Bosses that being almost all Kirby Final Bosses also is in 4 Games directly and has 2 Forms
Magolor another Important Character having A major Role in RTDL aswell as being Playable in fighters 2
Gooey Was Playable Twice and could be a Echo for Kirby
So here you have it 7 Completly Reasonable Kirby Characters that are either Playabke or a MAjor Bosses Or Both!

 

[Sucumbio]

This raises some questions for me. How much did she make with Bayo 1 and 2, respectively?

Does she rely on her Bayo role as her sole source of income or does she work other voice roles or have another job?

How many hours would she work for the 4000?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The voice actors' union/s is likely playing a factor in this situation, especially with Nintendo's preferences for actors and the limitations that might exist when members try to to do non union work.

 

[Opossum]

is that below the average I take it?

Far, far below average. Someone else did the math and it's equivalent to them saying "we're only paying you for the first four or five recording sessions and the rest is done for free." And it's made even worse when the claims state they originally offered her even less.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Oh my god are you serious

Friends, Worldlings, Bayonutters. Hear ye!#PlatinumGames #Nintendo #Bayonetta #Bayonetta3 #Bayonutters #Boycott #NintendoEurope #NintendoAmerica #NintendoJapan pic.twitter.com/h9lwiX2bBt

— Hellena Taylor (@hellenataylor) October 15, 2022

Is it just me, or has this year been a rough one for voice actors? Jujutsu Kaisen 0, Mob Psycho 100, even VEGGIETALES (though TBF, that one's more complicated), and now this? Have VAs always had to deal with this sort of stuff, or am I only NOW noticing the problem?

The worst part is that the calls for a boycott will most likely fail, going by past trends...

 

[Ivander]

Is it just me, or has this year been a rough one for voice actors? Jujutsu Kaisen 0, Mob Psycho 100, even VEGGIETALES (though TBF, that one's more complicated), and now this? Have VAs always had to deal with this sort of stuff, or am I only NOW noticing the problem?

I'm pretty sure this has been a problem for a long time and it's certainly not new to the gaming industry. While I don't think the treatment towards voice actor Unions are anywhere close to the harsh treatment towards Worker unions generated by companies like Amazon and whatnot, Video game companies aren't exactly favourable towards voice actor unions, and it's often not sparked as often since they tend to simply replace voice actors.

Although I'm not 100% sure if some of it has to do with voice actor unions in regards to other VA unions, as I thought I heard something about depending on a VA Union you hire, sometimes you can't use voice actors from a different VA Union alongside those ones.

But yeah, it's still very frustrating.

 

[fogbadge]

Far, far below average. Someone else did the math and it's equivalent to them saying "we're only paying you for the first four or five recording sessions and the rest is done for free." And it's made even worse when the claims state they originally offered her even less.

ouch

The worst part is that the calls for a boycott will most likely fail, going by past trends...

she's probably not even the first person who's called for a boycott of this

 

[Dan Quixote]

This Bayonetta stuff is so nuts. How does a union entirely populated by literal celebrities apparently have this little power? It's just so sad. That's like my most commie belief right there: every industry should have a dozen unions because they keep things in order. Considering the hype around Bayonetta I really hope this does anything.

 

[Perkilator]

Now this has gotten onto mainstream news:

Hellena Taylor -- the original voice actress behind 'Bayonetta' -- claims honchos of the newest entry lowballed her to the point of her deciding to exit the franchise ... with an offer of just $4,000. https://t.co/qfGuN2T9hD

— TMZ (@TMZ) October 15, 2022

 

[Dan Quixote]

Maybe TMZ is good after all

 

[Chuderz]

She's so cool and brave for breaking that NDA. Capitalism and its proponents can always eat the very same **** they serve is a good rule of thumb. Too bad the entire developed world's legal systems are literally designed around protecting the interests and spoils of capitalists so unabashedly so that I doubt they are too concerned about the PR prospects of destroying her now that she's no longer useful to them. Hold off a little until the initial media buzz dies down to do it most likely.

I guess we should just be "grateful" though that benevolent Nintendo has blessed us with a video game at all though.

 

[Dan Quixote]

I guess we should just be "grateful" though that benevolent Nintendo has blessed us with a video game at all though.

This is the most painful part tbh. Nintendo is infamous for a bunch of weird anti-consumer policies, but I can't lie, I don't care about consumers a fraction as much as I do about workers. Consumers are just auxiliary to the process, and Nintendo still impressed me by seeming a lot less anti-worker than all the other big game dev corporations, according to the statements workers themselves. But now over the past year even that's started to erode away with the testimonies we've been getting, and that's worse than any of the anti-emulation or never lowering prices that people online spend all their energy complaining about.

 

[fogbadge]

She's so cool and brave for breaking that NDA. Capitalism and its proponents can always eat the very same **** they serve is a good rule of thumb. Too bad the entire developed world's legal systems are literally designed around protecting the interests and spoils of capitalists so unabashedly so that I doubt they are too concerned about the PR prospects of destroying her now that she's no longer useful to them. Hold off a little until the initial media buzz dies down to do it most likely.

I guess we should just be "grateful" though that benevolent Nintendo has blessed us with a video game at all though.

platinum

 

[Chuderz]

platinum

Nintendo is the publisher. So no. Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

Nintendo is the publisher. So no. Nintendo.

platinum made it so yes platinum “blessed” is with this game

 

[Ivander]

So wait...,catching up to some Bayonetta news in general, Jennifer Hale is voicing Bayonetta in B3? Like, the Jennifer Hale? But like, surely she'd be much more expensive compared to what they offered Taylor, since not only is Jennifer a bigger name, but last time I checked also part of a Union as well. So like, what's the deal here? Especially if Kamiya did apparently want Taylor back. Which doesn't help that this is going to become a mess of "who's telling the truth" for a while since Kamiya is claiming she's lying.

That said, I also finally got to fully watch all of her vids about her experience. Good lord, she is particularly vicious to Jennifer in her 3rd vid, with her to the point of claiming it to be a betrayal on Jen's hands. Which like, does Jennifer even know about this? Why is she getting piled in with her employers over something she has no control over?
Like I get having a role you are very attached only for a new person to come in eventually does hurt, especially with people's thoughts on Chris Pratt and Mario with the Mario movie news. But this seems very unnecessarily and maliciously vicious towards someone who 99% had no control or doesn't even know about what happened to Taylor.

The whole situation still sucks and it's going to suck for a while now that Kamiya has spoken and claimed she's lying. And with how Nintendo tends to be very tight-lipping in general, we may not get a full story on why Platinum didn't want to pay her more, with how they originally claimed they couldn't get her back because of circumstances they couldn't avoid. And it's hard to believe this is about money or being cheap when like I said, I don't know how they are being cheap with Jennifer Hale who is a big frickin' deal in the VA Gaming industry.
But that said, I certainly hope people don't go after Jennifer Hale for this when we don't even know if even Jennifer knew about this. Like I said, that moment with Helena tearing and letting loose on Jennifer felt very unnecessarily vicious, especially when she more than likely had no control or even knowledge over what happened.

 

[fogbadge]

So wait...,catching up to some Bayonetta news in general, Jennifer Hale is voicing Bayonetta in B3? Like, the Jennifer Hale? But like, surely she'd be much more expensive compared to what they offered Taylor, since not only is Jennifer a bigger name, but last time I checked also part of a Union as well. So like, what's the deal here? Especially if Kamiya did apparently want Taylor back. Which doesn't help that this is going to become a mess of "who's telling the truth" for a while since Kamiya is claiming she's lying.

That said, I also finally got to fully watch all of her vids about her experience. Good lord, she is particularly vicious to Jennifer in her 3rd vid, with her to the point of claiming it to be a betrayal on Jen's hands. Which like, does Jennifer even know about this? Why is she getting piled in with her employers over something she has no control over?
Like I get having a role you are very attached only for a new person to come in eventually does hurt, especially with people's thoughts on Chris Pratt and Mario with the Mario movie news. But this seems very unnecessarily and maliciously vicious towards someone who 99% had no control or doesn't even know about what happened to Taylor.

The whole situation still sucks and it's going to suck for a while now that Kamiya has spoken and claimed she's lying. And with how Nintendo tends to be very tight-lipping in general, we may not get a full story on why Platinum didn't want to pay her more, with how they originally claimed they couldn't get her back because of circumstances they couldn't avoid. And it's hard to believe this is about money or being cheap when like I said, I don't know how they are being cheap with Jennifer Hale who is a big frickin' deal in the VA Gaming industry.
But that said, I certainly hope people don't go after Jennifer Hale for this when we don't even know if even Jennifer knew about this. Like I said, that moment with Helena tearing and letting loose on Jennifer felt very unnecessarily vicious, especially when she more than likely had no control or even knowledge over what happened.

it's a sad fact that people tend to get nasty towards people who they feel have wronged them or when someone is being nasty in the first place. humanity is odd

 

[chocolatejr9]

So wait...,catching up to some Bayonetta news in general, Jennifer Hale is voicing Bayonetta in B3? Like, the Jennifer Hale? But like, surely she'd be much more expensive compared to what they offered Taylor, since not only is Jennifer a bigger name, but last time I checked also part of a Union as well. So like, what's the deal here? Especially if Kamiya did apparently want Taylor back. Which doesn't help that this is going to become a mess of "who's telling the truth" for a while since Kamiya is claiming she's lying.

That said, I also finally got to fully watch all of her vids about her experience. Good lord, she is particularly vicious to Jennifer in her 3rd vid, with her to the point of claiming it to be a betrayal on Jen's hands. Which like, does Jennifer even know about this? Why is she getting piled in with her employers over something she has no control over?
Like I get having a role you are very attached only for a new person to come in eventually does hurt, especially with people's thoughts on Chris Pratt and Mario with the Mario movie news. But this seems very unnecessarily and maliciously vicious towards someone who 99% had no control or doesn't even know about what happened to Taylor.

The whole situation still sucks and it's going to suck for a while now that Kamiya has spoken and claimed she's lying. And with how Nintendo tends to be very tight-lipping in general, we may not get a full story on why Platinum didn't want to pay her more, with how they originally claimed they couldn't get her back because of circumstances they couldn't avoid. And it's hard to believe this is about money or being cheap when like I said, I don't know how they are being cheap with Jennifer Hale who is a big frickin' deal in the VA Gaming industry.
But that said, I certainly hope people don't go after Jennifer Hale for this when we don't even know if even Jennifer knew about this. Like I said, that moment with Helena tearing and letting loose on Jennifer felt very unnecessarily vicious, especially when she more than likely had no control or even knowledge over what happened.

Yeah, this whole thing is a mess. Somebody was responsible for the payment issues (possibly Nintendo due to them publishing, though even then they HAVE been willing to work with unions before, like with Xenoblade), but if what Hellena said is true, then why did Platinum feel the need to outright LIE about the reason she was recast? They're the ones who have the most to lose given their recent track record (I highly doubt they've fully recovered from Babylon's Fall yet), why would they take such a massive risk? Do they WANT Tencent to buy them out or something?

Heck, even Hellena's side is gonna be hurt. She's not yhe only who's gonna get hurt for breaking NDA: the whole Bayonetta team is likely at risk now because of something they had no control over. Do we REALLY want THIS to be how the series dies? I'm sorry if I come off as supporting the big companies (trust me, I'm not), but I'm not entirely sure she thought this one through...

Anyway, this is all just a big mess. Let's just wait and see what happens.

 

[Ivander]

it's a sad fact that people tend to get nasty towards people who they feel have wronged them or when someone is being nasty in the first place. humanity is odd

There's nothing odd about anger. Anger is a very dangerous emotion to deal with since it cares not for reason or truth. People don't think twice when their anger is in control and it's not until their anger has been released that they may get second thoughts about things they've said. Anger is never a good thing to let control you.

 

[fogbadge]

There's nothing odd about anger. Anger is a very dangerous emotion to deal with since it cares not for reason or truth. People don't think twice when their anger is in control and it's not until their anger has been released that they may get second thoughts about things they've said. Anger is never a good thing to let control you.

i know. emotions are rough

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I know nothing about voice acting, but isn't 4000$ for like 16 hours of work pretty good? I don't know in average how much they're paid but it seems like a very good pay, probably more than what composers or other artists do in the industry.

 

[Perkilator]

I know nothing about voice acting, but isn't 4000$ for like 16 hours of work pretty good? I don't know in average how much they're paid but it seems like a very good pay, probably more than what composers or other artists do in the industry.

Fraking Suda51 pays more for Trravis Touchdown's VA. And even besides that, $4,000 is sometimes barely enough to pay for two months of rent.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I know nothing about voice acting, but isn't 4000$ for like 16 hours of work pretty good? I don't know in average how much they're paid but it seems like a very good pay, probably more than what composers or other artists do in the industry.

For the standards of the entertainment industry, especially for a game that will likely make millions of dollars like Bayo 3, its pretty low. I've seen comments that people doing VA work for Raid Shadow Legends got paid better than what she was offered. Voice actors in general have it pretty rough in North America, but this situation is pretty galling given that Nintendo and Platinum have already spent a lot of money in development and marketing, yet still felt the need to nickel and dime the main actress.

And that's the most generous interpretation; the other is that they wanted Jennifer Hale and just low balled Taylor so they could justify not bringing her back.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Fraking Suda51 pays more for Trravis Touchdown's VA. And even besides that, $4,000 is sometimes barely enough to pay for two months of rent.

I mean, I'm assuming she have another job or something because her last role is in 2014 (which was Bayonetta in Smash 4). There's no way she hasn't make money since 8 years. right?

 

[Laniv]

WRT voice actor talk: this does bring to mind how Mike Vaughn, the old voice actor for Ludwig and Iggy Koopa, had this to say:

Or how Ali Hillis, Palutena's voice actress, didn't voice her in Smash Bros. because the game was non-union (to compare, Anthony Del Rio, Pit's VA, voices him in SSB, but goes uncredited):

Or how Sean Chiplock, who voices Revali, made more money from Freedom Planet than from Zelda, and was actually paid less for BotW alone than Taylor was for Bayonetta 3:

And IIRC, both Ike and Lucina's first VAs got replaced (can't remember if they were part of a union or not)

The mistreatment of VAs in the industry is sadly very prevalent, and Nintendo is no exception.

 

[fogbadge]

WRT voice actor talk: this does bring to mind how Mike Vaughn, the old voice actor for Ludwig and Iggy Koopa, had this to say:

View attachment 362302

Or how Ali Hillis, Palutena's voice actress, didn't voice her in Smash Bros. because the game was non-union (to compare, Anthony Del Rio, Pit's VA, voices him in SSB, but goes uncredited):

View attachment 362303

Or how Sean Chiplock, who voices Revali, made more money from Freedom Planet than from Zelda, and was actually paid less for BotW alone than Taylor was for Bayonetta 3:

View attachment 362304

And IIRC, both Ike and Lucina's first VAs got replaced (can't remember if they were part of a union or not)

The mistreatment of VAs in the industry is sadly very prevalent, and Nintendo is no exception.

wow VAs have it rough. I mean geez

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Not that European or American companies are flawless in this regard, but it doesn't help that certain Japanese companies/directors tend not to value Western VA performers as much as ones back home. Even Hideo Kojima, who tended to deal with the actors in Metal Gear fairly well, treated David Hayter pretty shabbily near the end of the former's time at Konami.

 

[Chuderz]

platinum made it so yes platinum “blessed” is with this game

That they literally wouldn't have been able to make both legally and financially without the official approval and backing of Nintendo.

I was mostly taking a shot at Nintendo's abysmal 2020-2022 catalog/lineup and some of the fans' dedication to the company to the point of being hostile to her. Lots of trolls stepping over her points to get their played-out schtick (people boasting about especially buying the game after hearing this or that they don't care because she doesn't matter and equally intentionally cruel takes) and then idiots dancing around her points like one guy in that thread actually making a sincere argument that if they didn't buy the game then it'd be impossible to pay her more and how she really is putting her illustrious career and its future lucrative prospects in jeopardy by doing this. So yeah I was a little snarky about the situation.

I've seen much more egregious stupid on sites where the entire point is people behaving like bigger cartoon characters than the portraits they hide behind but it's still ****ty to run into it.

 

[Arcanir]

And IIRC, both Ike and Lucina's first VAs got replaced (can't remember if they were part of a union or not)

Can't speak for Jason Adkins as his only credited role was Ike, but Laura Bailey was and that was why she wasn't credited in some of the FE games. That said, Laura Bailey moved on from many of her roles around the same time she stopped voicing Lucina so that one may not be on Nintendo exclusively, there was likely something broader going on with that situation.

 

[Sucumbio]

The best way to make a living as a VA is to work for a company, like Funimation for instance. But ultimately it's still very difficult to make tons of money. It pays a fraction compared to live action roles and VAs generally have to do hundreds of roles a year to make ends meet. Most actors are only paid for the hourly work and do not make royalties.

What kinda struck me as odd was how enraged she seemed. As if she didn't realize this is how it is for VAs in general. But as I said there's a lot of questions unanswered and now with the Jennifer Hale angle the whole thing seems off.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I think I first became aware of the contest when Masahiro Sakurai referenced winning "a certain game design contest" in an interview 4~5yrs ago, which certain JP maniacs immediately recognised as that specific contest, and from there I did my own research

— GSK | https://cohost.org/gosokkyu (@gosokkyu) October 16, 2022

Update time!

I got in contact with Gosokkyu and got more information. If you want to take a read through the twitter thread, but I think it further validates everything said before. We can also officially confirm that it was Sakurai who was a contest winner for the Phantasy Star Contest.

So, what are y'alls thoughts? I know Speed Weed will be ecstatic, but what do you all think? Also, what do you all think about Phantasy Star potentially appearing in Smash.

 

[Ivander]

I think I first became aware of the contest when Masahiro Sakurai referenced winning "a certain game design contest" in an interview 4~5yrs ago, which certain JP maniacs immediately recognised as that specific contest, and from there I did my own research

— GSK | https://cohost.org/gosokkyu (@gosokkyu) October 16, 2022

Update time!

I got in contact with Gosokkyu and got more information. If you want to take a read through the twitter thread, but I think it further validates everything said before. We can also officially confirm that it was Sakurai who was a contest winner for the Phantasy Star Contest.

So, what are y'alls thoughts? I know Speed Weed will be ecstatic, but what do you all think? Also, what do you all think about Phantasy Star potentially appearing in Smash.

I mean, I'm certainly on board after PSO2 finally released in the West and I got back into the Phantasy Star mood. Alis Landale or the Avatar characters from PSO would be great to see. And it was my choice for the underdog video game franchise and predicted that it would be Fighter Pass 2's Fatal Fury choice, a game series that heavily influenced Sakurai.

But regardless, I'm all for Phantasy Star appearing in Smash Bros.

 

[smashkirby]

Or how Ali Hillis, Palutena's voice actress, didn't voice her in Smash Bros. because the game was non-union (to compare, Anthony Del Rio, Pit's VA, voices him in SSB, but goes uncredited):

I should mention that according to Ali Hillis herself, she was busy with something during Smash 4's development, preventing her from reprising the role, and I guess it's safe to say that Smash 4 was a union project (for the most part, given the presence of folks like Hynden Walch and Laura Bailey). Unfortunately, it seems as though Smash Bros. went non-union as of Ultimate, resulting in Ali being left to turn down the role. Which is unfortunate, as it sounds like Ali had all intentions to return to the role too.

 

[fogbadge]

That they literally wouldn't have been able to make both legally and financially without the official approval and backing of Nintendo.

I was mostly taking a shot at Nintendo's abysmal 2020-2022 catalog/lineup

what do you mean legally? sega and platinum own the series they can do what they want

no a fan of splatoon and animal crossing then?

 

[Dinoman96]

what do you mean legally? sega and platinum own the series they can do what they want

no a fan of splatoon and animal crossing then?

Technically, Platinum has no ownership of Bayonetta. It's all SEGA's.

And Bayo 2 and Bayo 3 specifically are owned by Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

Technically, Platinum has no ownership of Bayonetta. It's all SEGA's.

And Bayo 2 and Bayo 3 specifically are owned by Nintendo.

the point stands

show me the copy right notice then

 

[Dinoman96]

the point stands

show me the copy right notice then

Well....

Bayonetta™ 3 for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Bayonetta struts through multiple locations in an all-new, over-the-top climax action game. Sporting a wicked new ensemble and somehow familiar pigtails, the titular Umbra Witch must face a mysterious evil using her signature guns and time-slowing Witch …

www.nintendo.com

© Nintendo © SEGA Published by Nintendo

For comparison's sake:

Bayonetta™ for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Buy Bayonetta™ and shop other great Nintendo products online at the official My Nintendo Store.

www.nintendo.com

Bayonetta™ 2 for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Buy Bayonetta™ 2 and shop other great Nintendo products online at the official My Nintendo Store.

www.nintendo.com

Bayo 1: © SEGA Published by Nintendo. Nintendo Switch is a trademark of Nintendo. © 2017 Nintendo.
Bayo 2: © 2014-2018 Nintendo © SEGA　Published by Nintendo. Nintendo Switch is a trademark of Nintendo. © 2017 Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

Well....

Bayonetta™ 3 for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Bayonetta struts through multiple locations in an all-new, over-the-top climax action game. Sporting a wicked new ensemble and somehow familiar pigtails, the titular Umbra Witch must face a mysterious evil using her signature guns and time-slowing Witch …

www.nintendo.com

© Nintendo © SEGA Published by Nintendo

For comparison's sake:

Bayonetta™ for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Buy Bayonetta™ and shop other great Nintendo products online at the official My Nintendo Store.

www.nintendo.com

Bayonetta™ 2 for Nintendo Switch - Nintendo Official Site

Buy Bayonetta™ 2 and shop other great Nintendo products online at the official My Nintendo Store.

www.nintendo.com

Bayo 1: © SEGA Published by Nintendo. Nintendo Switch is a trademark of Nintendo. © 2017 Nintendo.
Bayo 2: © 2014-2018 Nintendo © SEGA　Published by Nintendo. Nintendo Switch is a trademark of Nintendo. © 2017 Nintendo.

so it’s like the project zero game on the wii u then? a 3rd party series they inexplicably own part of

 

[Oracle Link]

I mean look at the Movies Both Charles Martinet and Roger Craig smith werent cast for the Characters that they voiced for years!