Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

If we get another Fire Emblem character, I’d prefer a villain. We have more than enough lords already but no one for them to face off against. I guess I’m weird like that and prefer for the heroes in Smash to actually have an antagonist to match up with. I’ve always been more about flavor than the competitive side of things. That and I’ve just always generally preferred the design of villains overall so I’d gladly welcome as many more as we can get into Smash.

Beyond that, I don’t have a whole lot more to add to the Fire Emblem discussion beyond my wildly unpopular idea about rethinking the entire way the roster is selected and works. I love the games and the characters are fun to play but my favorite characters are almost never the main lords, which tend to be the main ones chosen as Smash reps so I don’t have a ton of hype about them at the moment.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

People already seems to think that Alear (new FE protag) could be playable but honestly I'm not that sure. With past Fire emblem characters timing was very important. In Melee Roy's game was releasing a few months after Melee. Brawl started development in 2005, at that moment Path of radiance just released and Radiant dawn was already in early development so Ike was an obvious pick. Smash 4 started development in 2012 soon after the release of Kid icarus uprising, this is again right after Fire emblem awakening released in 2012 in Japan. And finally Smash DLC started development around 2018, right at the moment that Three houses was near completion. Unless Smash 6 start development really soon or is already in development (which I highly doubt) I don't think Alear will be that seriously considered.

I also think that the gimmick of summoning past characters will be pretty hard (if not impossible) to put in Smash. They would either need to make models for a lot of characters, or pick only one (like Joker who only use Arsene despite being able to use many Persona). But Marth seems to be Alear main summons and considering that Marth will most likely stay playable, it might be very weird to have him fight with Alear too.

The thing is, based on the very accurate peaks that showed off Engage before launch, there is a very realistic possibility that Engage will be the newest Fire Emblem game. Based on the leaks for Engage that happened in June, we have reasonable evidence to suggest that a Genealogy remake next. With a dlc cycle for Engage basically guaranteed and this new Genealogy remake and potential dlc for it on the horizon, there might not be a brand new Fire Emblem until 2028. If the next smash comes out around 2027, there’s a reasonable chance that there is no new FE game since Engage until after the game comes out. I think expecting the next smash by 2027 is very reasonable since there likely will be a new Switch successor by then. Smash tends to launch early in a systems lifespan so getting a new smash around then imo makes sense. We also know that at least for Xenoblade 2, the timing windows are stricter than we probably think. It would not shock me if we end up seeing Alear in the next Smash with all that being considered.

We could get Sigurd/Seliph instead, but tbh after Echoes got the short end of the stick for Ultimate I sadly do not think a remake will be the first thing they look at

 

[DarthEnderX]

Not so much as say, Lyn is also totally relevant now and highly popular. There's a case to me made for all the popular main characters ever. That's hardly boring.

zzzzzz...

Unless you're one of those people who's hellbent on "hating" Fire Emblem because of the number of playable characters in Smash

Those correct people.

 

[osby]

People already seems to think that Alear (new FE protag) could be playable but honestly I'm not that sure. With past Fire emblem characters timing was very important. In Melee Roy's game was releasing a few months after Melee. Brawl started development in 2005, at that moment Path of radiance just released and Radiant dawn was already in early development so Ike was an obvious pick. Smash 4 started development in 2012 soon after the release of Kid icarus uprising, this is again right after Fire emblem awakening released in 2012 in Japan. And finally Smash DLC started development around 2018, right at the moment that Three houses was near completion. Unless Smash 6 start development really soon or is already in development (which I highly doubt) I don't think Alear will be that seriously considered.

I also think that the gimmick of summoning past characters will be pretty hard (if not impossible) to put in Smash. They would either need to make models for a lot of characters, or pick only one (like Joker who only use Arsene despite being able to use many Persona). But Marth seems to be Alear main summons and considering that Marth will most likely stay playable, it might be very weird to have him fight with Alear too.

I agree with the timing but I don't think dismissing characters based on their gimmicks when we didn't even see the full game is a good idea.

Remember that a common argument against Byleth's chances was the difficulty of implementation for a possible Divine Pulse mechanic... which they turned out to not have upon becoming playable.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m not against more Fire Emblem characters. I really like the series and there are a lot of cool characters. It’s just hard to get excited when we already have so many of them. I’d personally rather see characters from other games I’m also a big fan of.

 

[JOJONumber691]

I don't wanna tip my hand on FE stuff, since that part of my poll series is probably coming soon in November. That being said, I am really only confident in 2-3 FE characters, maybe 4. And by confident, I mean they are getting above a 2/10 in chance from me when I do the poll.

I think the big question is how many Fire Emblem newcomers do you expect for the next game? If we are getting 1, I would just say that it will almost certainly be a new character like Alear. But if we are getting two, then maybe a fan favorite like Lyn could slip in.

I think Alfred is actually going to be a Wild Card pick. He's probably going to be decently crucial to the plot of Engage, what with being highlighted three times within the Trailer and also being on the Box Art, on top of the uniqueness of being a Caviler with a Lance. But a lot of why I think Alfred is a Wild Card actually comes down to some leak stuff so time to head into the Blur of Spoilers, as I'm about to talk about some leaks!

Also could someone help me figure out the Spoiler Tags, because now my post isn't showing up.
So Engage had some Screenshots leaked, and that leak said that after Engage, which was meant to be an anniversary title, would be remakes of Genealogy of the Holy War. And while anyone can use any Ring, it seems like Alfred is one of the few characters who actually have a preferred Ring within the Marketing, who is Sigurd, one of the two Lords of Genealogy of the Holy War. So, why choose Alear and Marth to be Marth with a Stand who is Marth, when you could choose Alfred to be a Caviler who can represent the last two FE Games at the same time? Just thought that was something that was pretty interesting.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I think Alfred is actually going to be a Wild Card pick. He's probably going to be decently crucial to the plot of Engage, what with being highlighted three times within the Trailer and also being on the Box Art, on top of the uniqueness of being a Caviler with a Lance. But a lot of why I think Alfred is a Wild Card actually comes down to some leak stuff so time to head into the Blur of Spoilers, as I'm about to talk about some leaks!

Also could someone help me figure out the Spoiler Tags, because now my post isn't showing up.
So Engage had some Screenshots leaked, and that leak said that after Engage, which was meant to be an anniversary title, would be remakes of Genealogy of the Holy War. And while anyone can use any Ring, it seems like Alfred is one of the few characters who actually have a preferred Ring within the Marketing, who is Sigurd, one of the two Lords of Genealogy of the Holy War. So, why choose Alear and Marth to be Marth with a Stand who is Marth, when you could choose Alfred to be a Caviler who can represent the last two FE Games at the same time? Just thought that was something that was pretty interesting.

Does this help?

 

[JOJONumber691]

Does this help?

It did. Thanks!

 

[Wonder Smash]

It did. Thanks!

No problem.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

The thing is, based on the very accurate peaks that showed off Engage before launch, there is a very realistic possibility that Engage will be the newest Fire Emblem game. Based on the leaks for Engage that happened in June, we have reasonable evidence to suggest that a Genealogy remake next. With a dlc cycle for Engage basically guaranteed and this new Genealogy remake and potential dlc for it on the horizon, there might not be a brand new Fire Emblem until 2028. If the next smash comes out around 2027, there’s a reasonable chance that there is no new FE game since Engage until after the game comes out. I think expecting the next smash by 2027 is very reasonable since there likely will be a new Switch successor by then. Smash tends to launch early in a systems lifespan so getting a new smash around then imo makes sense. We also know that at least for Xenoblade 2, the timing windows are stricter than we probably think. It would not shock me if we end up seeing Alear in the next Smash with all that being considered.

We could get Sigurd/Seliph instead, but tbh after Echoes got the short end of the stick for Ultimate I sadly do not think a remake will be the first thing they look at

Yeah that's true, but my point is that even if Engage is the last game in the franchise at the time Smash 6 startes development, if it's 4 or 5 years old it might not be as seriously considered than past Fire emblem games who released a few months before development of each Smash bros started. And yeah sure Engage will probably have dlc but I don't think the game will have many years of support like a online game.

I agree with the timing but I don't think dismissing characters based on their gimmicks when we didn't even see the full game is a good idea.

Remember that a common argument against Byleth's chances was the difficulty of implementation for a possible Divine Pulse mechanic... which they turned out to not have upon becoming playable.

That's fair. But Byleth also had the Heroes relic which could give him a unique moveset. Alear seems to be a swordfighter, so if he has nothing else that make him stand out I think this could also hurt his chances. You're right about waiting for the game release, I'm just speculating and I'm not saying that his chances are 0%, I just pass by and saw a few people mentioning him and I wanted to give a few counter points so show that he might not be an obvious pick like past FE characters.

 

[fogbadge]

I think Alfred is actually going to be a Wild Card pick. He's probably going to be decently crucial to the plot of Engage, what with being highlighted three times within the Trailer and also being on the Box Art, on top of the uniqueness of being a Caviler with a Lance. But a lot of why I think Alfred is a Wild Card actually comes down to some leak stuff so time to head into the Blur of Spoilers, as I'm about to talk about some leaks!

Also could someone help me figure out the Spoiler Tags, because now my post isn't showing up.
So Engage had some Screenshots leaked, and that leak said that after Engage, which was meant to be an anniversary title, would be remakes of Genealogy of the Holy War. And while anyone can use any Ring, it seems like Alfred is one of the few characters who actually have a preferred Ring within the Marketing, who is Sigurd, one of the two Lords of Genealogy of the Holy War. So, why choose Alear and Marth to be Marth with a Stand who is Marth, when you could choose Alfred to be a Caviler who can represent the last two FE Games at the same time? Just thought that was something that was pretty interesting.

At this point I don’t think any FE character can be considered a wild card pick

 

[Gengar84]

At this point I don’t think any FE character can be considered a wild card pick

Naesala from Path of Radiance? He was a cool guy but he’d be pretty random as a Smash character, not that I’d complain since he was my favorite from that game.

 

[chocolatejr9]

In the wake of certain Direct takes and an earlier conversation in this thread, I figured I'd share this vid by Good Vibes Gaming about why so many Nintendo IPs don't get new games very often:

This should help shed some light on certain business decisions on Nintendo's part.

 

[Arcanir]

On the note of timing, Sakurai did say that if Awakening released six months earlier or later Robin may've not been considered. While the timing may not be that strict, it does imply that just being the latest new FE by the time Smash starts development doesn't necessarily guarantee Alear's inclusion. If Smash's development doesn't line up with them and their game's release they could still be skipped.

I do think that being meant to be anniversary characters could get them a leg up though.

 

[fogbadge]

In the wake of certain Direct takes and an earlier conversation in this thread, I figured I'd share this vid by Good Vibes Gaming about why so many Nintendo IPs don't get new games very often:

This should help shed some light on certain business decisions on Nintendo's part.

Didn’t you share this already?

 

[dream1ng]

I think only time will tell. If we get the next Smash announced within the next three years, the timing for Alear lines up. Later than that, and we'd probably be onto the next big FE game by then.

May be in for another Zoroark.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Didn’t you share this already?

Yeah, but not in this thread.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, but not in this thread.

Ok then

 

[StrangeKitten]

I wouldn't rule out development of the next Smash starting sometime soon. While the DLC certainly makes it seem less so, we're only a few months away from the four-year(!!) anniversary of Ultimate's release! That's quite a long while, especially factoring in the few years or so development time it would take to make the next one. I can see Alear being part of the plan if development on the next game begins in the not-too-distant future. Time will tell. If we learn that Sakurai is working on a major project not related to Smash (I don't think his YouTube channel would qualify as one), that'll likely mean Alear is unlikely and the next Smash won't be here for a long while. If a port of Ultimate makes it onto Nintendo's next console and contains no new characters, that's probably also a sign that the next Smash game is a long ways off. If it does contain new characters, well, Alear could be one of them. I feel like it's unlikely that a Smash Ultimate port would contain any new characters, but not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I think Alfred is actually going to be a Wild Card pick. He's probably going to be decently crucial to the plot of Engage, what with being highlighted three times within the Trailer and also being on the Box Art, on top of the uniqueness of being a Caviler with a Lance. But a lot of why I think Alfred is a Wild Card actually comes down to some leak stuff so time to head into the Blur of Spoilers, as I'm about to talk about some leaks!

Also could someone help me figure out the Spoiler Tags, because now my post isn't showing up.
So Engage had some Screenshots leaked, and that leak said that after Engage, which was meant to be an anniversary title, would be remakes of Genealogy of the Holy War. And while anyone can use any Ring, it seems like Alfred is one of the few characters who actually have a preferred Ring within the Marketing, who is Sigurd, one of the two Lords of Genealogy of the Holy War. So, why choose Alear and Marth to be Marth with a Stand who is Marth, when you could choose Alfred to be a Caviler who can represent the last two FE Games at the same time? Just thought that was something that was pretty interesting.

To be fair, it is shown that characters can equip other rings. I doubt I’d Alear made it in they would be restricted to just summoning Marth. You could just as easily give Alear pretty much any reasonable lord or lords to implement into their moveset if you wanted to. Smash loves to give characters moves from other characters from their series. I do not think most people would associate the Byleth we see in Three Houses with any of the lord’s weapons for example. Having Alear just use any rings that the devs see fit for a moveset makes more sense imo.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Alear makes it, which will probably be the case, I doubt the transformation and summoning mechanic would be used all too much. Maybe a summon of different Emblems that aren't gonna make it as fighters, as Sigurd or others. But I'm way more interested in whom we could get besides him. Pretty sure Lyn will be a favorite pick from now on, she was also featured in the trailer for example and not without reasons.

Am also pretty confident about Noah. And he'll probably have the class / weapon switching mechanic from Xenoblade 3.

It's kind of inevitable we'll see these characters at this point.

 

[JOJONumber691]

To be fair, it is shown that characters can equip other rings. I doubt I’d Alear made it in they would be restricted to just summoning Marth. You could just as easily give Alear pretty much any reasonable lord or lords to implement into their moveset if you wanted to. Smash loves to give characters moves from other characters from their series. I do not think most people would associate the Byleth we see in Three Houses with any of the lord’s weapons for example. Having Alear just use any rings that the devs see fit for a moveset makes more sense imo.

Yeah, but when your primary is Marth, and you already fight like Marth, why not give someone else the Ring Gimmick if you’re only giving them one Ring. Multiple Rings could be used, and I could be proven wrong, but I feel like with how similar characters () have been handled in the past, that they’d likely just stick to primaries

 

[SPEN18]

being meant to be anniversary characters could get them a leg up though.

I don't know for sure, but I'm inclined to think of it the opposite way. If this is an anniversary game that's supposed to showcase the major characters from throughout the series just as much as its own cast, then maybe that can be used as an excuse to skip giving this game a dedicated newcomer. You know, since Marth being in Smash is already advertising this game.

Or, in my pipe dream version of the situation, it could be used as an excuse to add Lyn instead.

 

[Sucumbio]

Or..

This is their way of nixing Marth by making him a summon.

 

[fogbadge]

Am also pretty confident about Noah. And he'll probably have the class / weapon switching mechanic from Xenoblade 3.

i'm certain he wont happen

 

[Opossum]

They are literally never going to cut Marth, nor should they. They'd sooner cut Fox or Captain Falcon, and that's saying something.

 

[toonito]

Very reasonable picks all around, but in terms of mainline Mario it did not receive a newcomer in Brawl. If you count Wario I guess he counts but he is clearly representing his own spin offs at that point.

But yeah, all of those are super safe reasonable picks. Probably the only other pick I would say keep a strong eye on that you did not mention is Officer Howard from Astral Chain.The IP was a success and Nintendo even bought the full rights from platinum games. If the next smash pulls predominantly from the switch era I wouldn’t be shocked if we get them.

I missed Astral Chain

I get what you're saying with Wario and I agree but at the same time I kinda lump him in the larger Mario universe along with Yoshi.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Missed this last week, but Square Enix finally released a transcript of their president's Aug. 4 investor briefing, complete with twist ending

Says it's too costly to always fully own their game studios, open to joint ventures, taking minority stakeshttps://t.co/jh7btXvB4d pic.twitter.com/6YwQnpp2m8

— Stephen Totilo (@stephentotilo) September 14, 2022

Something of an interesting tweet, especially after yesterday's Direct. It feels like a lot of Japanese third parties are moving towards either very modestly budget titles (Konami), collaborative studio/game efforts to lessen risk (Koei Tecmo) or both (Square Enix in this case). Especially with SE that has had some big money sinks in the last few years (Avengers, Babylon's Fall, FFXIV) only one of which effectively rebounded, it does feel like a shift towards more AA games to effectively be a more consistent money stream between big projects. And this case the Switch appears to the best means for that, compare the multitude of games from SE on the platform in comparison to 4 years ago, and the reality of Nintendo's domination of the Japanese market and it having the ideal audience to dive into less costly JRPG games becomes clear.

It actually reminds me a bit of how one of the reasons the relationship between the two was repaired in the mid aughts was because the amount of money lost by the Spirits Within movie meant Square was in need of safe money from modest titles, and FF re-releases on GBA was an easy answer, hence both sides working together again for that console and the Gamecube.

This particular trend might have interesting implications for future releases on the Switch and its successor, especially if more collaborations become attractive to companies otherwise wary of rising development costs.

 

[Perkilator]

You wanna know I game I would've loved to see for Switch? A Kingdom Hearts game focusing on Kairi and Aqua training together and the player being able to switch no pun intended between them on the fly.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

You wanna know I game I would've loved to see for Switch? A Kingdom Hearts game focusing on Kairi and Aqua training together and the player being able to switch no pun intended between them on the fly.

Honestly I think a KH spin-off on Switch (that isn't a rhythm game) may not be entirely out the question at some point. Its primarily a Playstation series, but given just how successful the Switch (and its sequel console likely will be) a timed exclusive on it could get be very profitable if done right.

 

[Chuderz]

I wish Disney would give the Kingdom Hearts OG content to Square but that's just not how business is done and that's especially the case with Disney. I'd have preferred for KH3 to have wrapped up all the Disney stuff entirely to be honest. Sure Disney has a lot more stuff but it doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen. IDK I kind of get sick of the repeat worlds especially when Disney has so much IP. I actually wouldn't be opposed to something like The Simpsons appearing in a future KH game though I'm sure the fandom would flip. Possibly in a positive memey kind of way or they'd actually have a legitimate problem with something like that. Then there's obviously Marvel and Star Wars stuff that absolutely needs to happen and I don't even like those properties. Then BESIDES ALL OF THAT there's even a treasure trove of Pixar content that's a natural fit. I wanna see Inside Out and Up get featured especially.

Again though I just don't see it happening. I'm kind of pessimistic after learning how Disney neutered the Frozen feature in KH3. I just have no faith in the process I guess. I'd like to but I don't.

Nintendo's IPs would be perfect for KH worlds. Though with Nintendo's systems routinely being so underpowered I can't imagine that happening beyond just the legal reasons. Maybe the Nintendo version of a KH product could include a Nintendo IP like Mario and Donkey Kong as a bonus world? That'd be really cool.

 

[Wonder Smash]

All this talk of RPGs got me thinking about Nihon Falcom.

I'm not a fan of RPGs but I do kind of like action RPGs and they're said to be the pioneers of that genre. It's too bad nothing from that company has any content in the Smash series so far. If I ever do give those games a try, I'll start with a game from the Ys series.

This also reminds me, The Legend of Heroes: Trails from Zero was also announced for the Switch recently. Maybe even more Nintendo fans will get to explore more of their games.

If Adol Christin get in Smash, I wonder if he would be like Terry, in which he would come with tracks from both his series and other series by his company?

 

[Perkilator]

All this talk of RPGs got me thinking about Nihon Falcom.

I'm not a fan of RPGs but I do kind of like action RPGs and they're said to be the pioneers of that genre. It's too bad nothing from that company has any content in the Smash series so far.

I remember SharkLord was the Nihon Falcom simp expert on these forums.

 

[fogbadge]

You wanna know I game I would've loved to see for Switch? A Kingdom Hearts game focusing on Kairi and Aqua training together and the player being able to switch no pun intended between them on the fly.

i'd rather kairi had a solo game myself

I wish Disney would give the Kingdom Hearts OG content to Square but that's just not how business is done and that's especially the case with Disney. I'd have preferred for KH3 to have wrapped up all the Disney stuff entirely to be honest. Sure Disney has a lot more stuff but it doesn't seem like it's ever going to happen. IDK I kind of get sick of the repeat worlds especially when Disney has so much IP. I actually wouldn't be opposed to something like The Simpsons appearing in a future KH game though I'm sure the fandom would flip. Possibly in a positive memey kind of way or they'd actually have a legitimate problem with something like that. Then there's obviously Marvel and Star Wars stuff that absolutely needs to happen and I don't even like those properties. Then BESIDES ALL OF THAT there's even a treasure trove of Pixar content that's a natural fit. I wanna see Inside Out and Up get featured especially.

Again though I just don't see it happening. I'm kind of pessimistic after learning how Disney neutered the Frozen feature in KH3. I just have no faith in the process I guess. I'd like to but I don't.

Nintendo's IPs would be perfect for KH worlds. Though with Nintendo's systems routinely being so underpowered I can't imagine that happening beyond just the legal reasons. Maybe the Nintendo version of a KH product could include a Nintendo IP like Mario and Donkey Kong as a bonus world? That'd be really cool.

well the repeat worlds are down to normua and his team. he's made it clear that they're the ones picking the worlds with him explaining in the past that members of the team making documents proposing certain worlds, with mary poppins being often suggested. he's also mention that certain worlds are difficult to include due to licensing with many properties having their rights spread across multiple companies that are part of disney. not to mention for lice action worlds you got licence all the real people's faces so that makes things harder. they keep returning to the wdas movies simply cause they're the easiest to include, same reason smash returns to mario all the time.

now the "neutered" story was a result of them working closely with the people who made these movies and you know how protective people get about their stories. pixar in particular are protective which probably makes the worlds harder to include along the license.

also i thought you hated disney?

 

[Chuderz]

I do hate Disney. Plenty to hate. Love Kingdom Hearts tho. Plenty to love.

 

[fogbadge]

I do hate Disney. Plenty to hate. Love Kingdom Hearts tho. Plenty to love.

uh huh. that makes no sense

 

[DarthEnderX]

This is their way of nixing Marth by making him a summon.

Leave it to Nintendo to **** up Stands...

"My Stand ability is a guy that does things I can already do!"

I remember SharkLord was the Nihon Falcom simp expert on these forums.

 

[Megadoomer]

Leave it to Nintendo to **** up Stands...

"My Stand ability is a guy that does things I can already do!"

To be fair, there are much, much worse Stand abilities, like one that kills its user whenever someone looks at the user's back, or a Stand that traps its own user in an electrical pylon. By comparison, an extra invisible version of yourself seems like it could be pretty useful.

 

[Dukefire]

So, which characters might get the cut for the next Smash Bros? I can say that the returning characters that were absent since melee may go first. Young Link and Pichu.

 

[JOJONumber691]

So, which characters might get the cut for the next Smash Bros? I can say that the returning characters that were absent since melee may go first. Young Link and Pichu.

I’m going to just say my opinions and let the hate fly in. I think if the next game is a reboot, most, if not all of the Third Parties are going to get cut. If we’re not going the 35-50 Character Reboot Route, then here’s who I’m imagining is getting cut the next game regardless, in Roster Order! Just an an FYI, Anyone with an asterisk is a 50/50, while anyone with an Apostrophe is someone that I think could be DLC. Here goes:
Dark Samus*’
Sheik’ (If it weren’t for Everyone is Here I’m very confident Sheik would’ve been cut this time around)
Pichu
Lucina*’
Young Link
Roy’
Chrom
Zero Suit Samus*’
Snake
Lucas*’
Toon Link
Wolf’
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer*’
Palutena’
Bowser Jr.’
Duck Hunt’
Cloud’
Corrin
Simon’
Richter
Incineroar
Piranha Plant
Joker’
Terry (I don’t see Misk playing nice within the next decade)
Min Min’
Sephiroth (Imagine getting even luckier than Ganondorf. I legit thought that was impossible yet here we are with Sephiroth. He’s never coming back Imao.)