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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

dream1ng

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Excuse me, can you write it to me a little simpler? because I do not understand.
Sorry. No one is saying that we can't get western characters. People agree we can get western characters. What we disagree with is the chance of getting characters who basically don't show up in Japan.
 
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Quillion

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I remember from a thread from some time ago that said Japan is becoming less and less kind towards graphic violence in animated media of all kinds, including their own. Here's part of that conversation:

Censorship of super-violent games in Japan is what prevents MK from getting a foothold there, I think. The modern iterations in particular would be a headache for CERO to deal with.
Wait, that's a thing in Japan now? Isn't that the same country that markets Fist of the North Star and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure to preteen boys?
Yes. Incidentally, the latest FOTNS game has shadowed-out gore (while the US release has that be optional). Even as far back as No More Heroes, you can see blood being censored in the Japanese release.

These days, ultraviolence is okay to be displayed in manga and some TV channels and home video, otherwise it's a no-no.
 

Wonder Smash

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You've gone from claiming there was no statement, to saying the statement was mistranslated, to saying it only applied to JP-only characters, to making false equivalencies between the Japanese reception of Minecraft to Mortal Kombat and fighting strawmen about just getting western characters in Smash.

How much further would you like to slide before you concede over the highly inauspicious position Scorpion is in when it comes to becoming a fighter in Smash? Because we can keep tumbling if you want.
Actually, if you noticed, my claim that there was no statement has not only remained consistent but also true the entire time; there truly hasn't been anything showing that there some obstacle for Western characters like ones from MK. You're just assuming the opposite of what Sakurai said. That's not an official statement.

It's the exact same principle of excluding a major region in the familiarity of a character. Don't be purposefully obtuse in claiming it wouldn't apply inversely simply because the examples were Japanese. It's about excluding major regions.

And MK games haven't released in Japan for over twenty-five years, and when they did, they bombed. That won't alleviate the problem of familiarity which excludes them. MK just isn't a thing in Japan.

It's not going to make the character an appealing addition when they have a wealth of characters who not only show up both in Japan and overseas, but are actually prolific in both. Look at the third-parties we get, those are the ones who tend to get chosen. We're not up in here getting Sakura Shinguji.
This is something you can't really say for sure. You can't compare Lucas, a character from one game that was never localized, to Scorpion, a character from many games in a much more famous series that was. This comparison doesn't match up. It doesn't matter how long it's been since MK games were localized or how well they did, MK is not some unknown in Japan and fans do recognize the series no matter what. It's that famous.

Also, while you keep going on about what Sakurai says, the truth is, there's really nothing he said that points against an MK characters chances. All you can point out are the things he said about Japan-only characters, which is the exact opposite of what you're supposed to be looking for. The fact that Smash not only has Western characters but characters from companies that are competing with Nintendo themselves should speak more FOR Western characters' chances, not against them. Then there's the whole video game history that people love to bring up when it comes to Smash...yeah, MK clearly has more going for it compared to whatever you think it has going against it.
 
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Geno Boost

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Who do you feel currently is the most likely 3rd animal crossing rep?
Tom Nook and Ankha seems currently the most recognizable in the series
Perhaps it can be another koopalings treatment 8 characters in 1
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Who do you feel currently is the most likely 3rd animal crossing rep?
Tom Nook and Ankha seems currently the most recognizable in the series
Perhaps it can be another koopalings treatment 8 characters in 1
It will not be Ankha.

Why are we even entertaining the thought of Ankha?

Nintendo will not want to acknowledge the reason Ankha is so... "popular."


So between those, Tom Nook.
 

SPEN18

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Who do you feel currently is the most likely 3rd animal crossing rep?
Tom Nook and Ankha seems currently the most recognizable in the series
Perhaps it can be another koopalings treatment 8 characters in 1
I would rank them like this: Tom Nook, then Resetti, then KK. After that it gets kinda muddy.
 

SPEN18

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Personally I prefer a 3rd animal crossing to be 8 characters in 1 they all are not really fighters so they can pretty much do anything :ultvillager::ultisabelle: does
I am not a fan at all of the whole "multiple characters as alts in 1 slot" sort of thing in general, as I think they should just pick a top candidate as best they can and be as completely true as they can to that singular character's personality and attributes.

But regardless of the above, for AC in particular, I think Nook especially is big enough to stand on his own and others like Resetti have enough interesting things they can do that are unique to them that it would be weird to shoehorn them into a "multialt" setup.
 

fogbadge

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Who do you feel currently is the most likely 3rd animal crossing rep?
Tom Nook and Ankha seems currently the most recognizable in the series
Perhaps it can be another koopalings treatment 8 characters in 1
well tom nook makes the most sense, though that doesn't always matter for smash. if they wanted to go the easy route and go for an echo theres always digby
 

Geno Boost

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I am not a fan at all of the whole "multiple characters as alts in 1 slot" sort of thing in general, as I think they should just pick a top candidate as best they can and be as completely true as they can to that singular character's personality and attributes.

But regardless of the above, for AC in particular, I think Nook especially is big enough to stand on his own and others like Resetti have enough interesting things they can do that are unique to them that it would be weird to shoehorn them into a "multialt" setup.
If you think about it we could have gotten 16 animal crossing characters I don’t think anyone would be disappointed many animal crossing players could have their own favorites included
Perhaps turning :ultvillager::ultisabelle: into its own customization like Mii fighters but it’s only about skins of the other characters in animal crossing and they all have announcer calling their names and more could be added through DLC alongside the Mii costumes.
Animal crossing is pretty much the perfect series for these kind of treatment knowing that it also has large community and players
 
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Sucumbio

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I'm guessing similar to cinematic Final Smashes?
Yes please anything to slow the game down even more!

So is Doom or Halo popular in Japan?...

There's some 3rd party exclusives coming from Microsoft to Switch iirc..... 🤔

So maybe we could get Master Chief after all. He seems so likely.
 

Opossum

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Smash Bros. very rarely acknowledges western only video games. Take for example, StarTropics, which was a fully in-house NCL developed game...and yet Mike Jones has never even gotten so much as a sticker or spirit in Smash, because neither ST games came out in Japan.
Honestly I think there's an even more damning example than Mike Jones.

Duck Hunt in Smash notably references the other NES Zapper compatible games that Nintendo themselves made...that is, all but one of them. While Duck Hunt also incorporates Wild Gunman and Hogan's Alley, any reference to Gumshoe is completely absent. And notably, Gumshoe was only ever released in the west, and not in Japan.

The fact that the ONLY Nintendo-owned Zapper game that isn't referenced is the one that never got a Japanese release is the most damning part.
 

Quillion

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I am not a fan at all of the whole "multiple characters as alts in 1 slot" sort of thing in general, as I think they should just pick a top candidate as best they can and be as completely true as they can to that singular character's personality and attributes.
TBH, I hope that alts can at most change idles, face animations, and taunts in the future. That way, we can have things like ALttP Zelda, SS Zelda, and BotW Zelda sharing animations while OoT and TP Zelda do likewise, all in one slot.
 

SPEN18

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If you think about it we could have gotten 16 animal crossing characters I don’t think anyone would be disappointed many animal crossing players could have their own favorites included
Perhaps turning :ultvillager::ultisabelle: into its own customization like Mii fighters but it’s only about skins of the other characters in animal crossing and they all have announcer calling their names and more could be added through DLC alongside the Mii costumes.
Animal crossing is pretty much the perfect series for these kind of treatment knowing that it also has large community and players
It wouldn't work I don't think, especially when many of the biggest characters you'd like to be sure to include, like KK and Resetti, are some of the most distinct in terms of their abilities. KK would need to have his guitar and they even made his Mii costume a gunner so that he could have it; KK wouldn't be right without his musical themes, and the other AC characters wouldn't really look right with them. Resetti, in addition to his pickaxe and underground burrowing (as well as potentially speech bubbling, though I guess other characters could maybe do that even if it wouldn't be as befitting to them), has his hostile and irritable mannerisms which are so much a part of his character that I don't think he could fit in with the Villager/Isabelle sort of moveset. Others like Timmy/Tommy and the Able sisters they would probably want to make into combo characters, not to mention that Timmy/Tommy probably couldn't have the same hitboxes as someone like Tom Nook.
A big fanbase and high sales are considerations in giving a series more reps, yeah, but I don't think the solution is a string of superficial alt costumes. Having enough reps worthy and/or capable of a full, individualized moveset is not even an issue with this series as there are a handful of AC characters who are a clear cut above the rest in terms of being recurring, consistently popular, and recognizable.
 

Sucumbio

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Or have tiered alts. Zelda! -> Tetra -> Skins. Where Tetra is Tetra and Twilight Princess is TP Zelda (Brawl) and on and on shoot 5, 6 versions. Each with their own similar kit (assuming her kit remains as is) but slightly different like Tetra would not only look different with Toon animation but prolly different moves.

Mario -> Standard
Dr. Mario
Etc.
 

SPEN18

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TBH, I hope that alts can at most change idles, face animations, and taunts in the future. That way, we can have things like ALttP Zelda, SS Zelda, and BotW Zelda sharing animations while OoT and TP Zelda do likewise, all in one slot.
I am actually good with Zelda being more or less how she is in Ult but wouldn't mind some other versions of the character being alts if it could be done with minimal effort. In general, though, too many characters as alts of each other runs the risk of dampening the allstar and crossover aspects, in addition to potentially undermining the diversity of personalities and abilities among the given characters.
Realistically and regardless of the above, the number of cases where like 3+ or 4+ characters can be represented accurately with the exact same moveset up to simple reskinning and all those selected characters are notable enough for it all to be worth the effort is extremely small.
 

Ivander

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Personally I prefer a 3rd animal crossing to be 8 characters in 1 they all are not really fighters so they can pretty much do anything :ultvillager::ultisabelle: does
A character shouldn't need to be a Number-in-One Package to appear interesting. I know Smash made some of these characters popular alongside fighting games with character costumes, but the thing that makes Smash a big deal with it's characters is how the characters feel true to themselves. How they feel very close to their original identity. Making a moveset for the purpose of fitting as many characters as possible comes across as less trying to stay true to the characters and more trying to stack as much as possible without stability to the characters themselves.
Marth's moveset was made with Marth and Fire Emblem's gameplay in mind, but Lucina, Roy and Chrom were added because they did not feel out of place using Marth's moveset since they don't play so differently from each other in their main games. And while Simon does take some moves from Richter, both characters don't play differently in their own games, with the focus on the whip's range and items.

It's really the Koopalings who feel odd because it feels the reason the Koopalings probably got in was because Bowser Jr. was more so focused on the Clown Car rather than Jr. himself, with all of his attacks and specials being based around the Clown Car and other tools that Bowser and Bowser Jr. used with the Clown Car like hammers, Mechakoopas and whatnot.
And while the Clown Car has become rather synonymous with Bowser Jr. in later games, only his Final Smash as Shadow Mario is the closest thing to the original identity of Bowser Jr. The Koopalings were probably added as a possible bonus that wouldn't be out of place with the Clown Car, since the Koopalings are rather synonymous with the Airships from SMB3 and NSMBW/U, and if Bowser Jr. was based more around his original identity with the Paintbrush, Shadow Mario and whatnot, the Koopalings may not have gotten in at all, with how out of place Shadow Mario already feels for them when they use their Final Smash.
 
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Quillion

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Or have tiered alts. Zelda! -> Tetra -> Skins. Where Tetra is Tetra and Twilight Princess is TP Zelda (Brawl) and on and on shoot 5, 6 versions. Each with their own similar kit (assuming her kit remains as is) but slightly different like Tetra would not only look different with Toon animation but prolly different moves.

Mario -> Standard
Dr. Mario
Etc.
That seems even better. It could work for certain iterations of one character. It could have small effects like a Fire Mario alt adding fire effects to all of his attacks. Or Cat Mario having slash effects on certain attacks and catlike idles and taunts.

I think Tetra/Toon Zelda should be their own character though.
 

Gengar84

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It will not be Ankha.

Why are we even entertaining the thought of Ankha?

Nintendo will not want to acknowledge the reason Ankha is so... "popular."


So between those, Tom Nook.
I don’t care about Animal Crossing and I’m not into that kind of stuff personally but Ankha is probably my favorite character from what limited knowledge I have just because I’ve always loved ancient Egyptian aesthetic. That’s why Cofagrigus and Lucario are among my favorite Pokémon and Pharaoh Man is my favorite Robot Master.
 
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Chuderz

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Got Cuphead on sale last week and picked up the very reasonably priced DLC for it today and I'm so excited to finally play it. I always wanted to try the game out but I was on PS4 as opposed to Xbox and I wasn't getting an Xbox for any one game. By the time the PS4 version was released the DLC had already been announced so I decided I would wait... and wait... and wait... for it to finally release so that I could have the complete experience; something I usually hold out for (I make exceptions though like I will for BOTW2 and did for Ultimate though as least Sakurai threw in a nice potted plant for my troubles there) because I truly don't feel a game is done until the DLC is all wrapped up and even then there's the modding scene to consider.

Anyways, to tie it back to Smash I decided to spend a little bit of my wallet to pick up the Cuphead Mii costume and I forgot that I also got a sweet track to go with it! Nice! Truly a very special day for Cuphead fans! I've been watching the animated show whenever I'm chilling with my little sisters. I guess the dev team are moving on to other art styles and intellectual properties after this but here's to hoping that this franchise and art style someday returns from either MDHR or an entirely new developer!

I truly appreciate their efforts. The game is absolutely gorgeous. I can't wait to show it to my little sisters because they're starting to fall in love with video games and to be able to tie this newfound appreciation for the medium with the animated show will be very special I believe! A very rare instance where both projects/mediums are done with a high level of meticulous craftsmanship!
 
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Ivander

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Just wondering, did people's attraction to Ankha predate that... animation?
She existed long before the animation. She was in the Gamecube Animal Crossing and City Folk for the Wii. She's been in all the games since City Folk. I can imagine that some people may have liked her before the animation.
I don’t care about Animal Crossing and I’m not into that kind of stuff personally but Ankha is probably my favorite character from what limited knowledge I have just because I’ve always loved ancient Egyptian aesthetic. That’s why Cofagrigus and Lucario are among my favorite Pokémon and Pharaoh Man is my favorite Robot Master.
Always enjoyed Egyptian stuff myself since I was a kid and she does have a neat design. That said, Tom Nook certainly should come to Smash Bros. first. I mean, who doesn't want to beat him up at least once.....in Smash Bros. I mean.
 
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Quillion

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She existed long before the animation. She was in the Gamecube Animal Crossing and City Folk for the Wii. She's been in all the games since City Folk. I can imagine that some people may have liked her before the animation.
I know Ankha has consistently been near the top of every popularity/design tier list fans like to make. But that's not the kind of attraction I'm talking about.
 

Ivander

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I know Ankha has consistently been near the top of every popularity/design tier list fans like to make. But that's not the kind of attraction I'm talking about.
And I can still imagine some people liking her that way before the animation regardless. It's likely the same for alot of characters who one day suddenly became quite popular. They more than likely had a couple "fans" or more before their sudden popularity boost.
 
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Chuderz

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Stratos

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There are series that we would like to bring back to life, if only ideas and inspirations can be found from the creators or from some others who would like to continue them.
 

Lionfranky

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Well depending on the firearm, that might genuinely raise the rating. Toning down a character is literally removing the parts that would aversely impact the rating, one of which might be the types of firearms. Obviously not all firearms. But maybe something like an assault rifle.
There is no rating agency in the world that has firearm on content descriptor.
Lara Croft didn't raise rating in Brawhala with her pistols.
 

Laniv

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Who do you feel currently is the most likely 3rd animal crossing rep?
Tom Nook and Ankha seems currently the most recognizable in the series
Perhaps it can be another koopalings treatment 8 characters in 1
Putting aside where my obvious biases are...

I really don't think an 8-in-1 character can work like Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings can. Between a possible Bell mechanic for Tom Nook (and Redd, if he is added as a Nook echo), a musical theme for K.K. Slider, the digging abilities of Resetti, and even some fossil-based attacks or limited flight abilities of Blathers, any possible Animal Crossing characters are too varied in abilities (and body shape in Resetti's case) to be alts of each other.

This is like when we were discussing which ARMS character would get in and people threw around the Bowser Jr./Hero situation. It just wouldn't work.

Anyway I think Tom Nook is the most likely for a third AC character
 

Stratos

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What I like about the Super Smash Bros. series is that it doesn't accept non-video game characters like Brawlhalla, but I wouldn't mind either.
 
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