Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Dukefire]

Tomorrow is Mario Strikers Battle League's first kick. Hope to see people on the field.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Talking about characters that aren't too likely even if we want them, there are any character from a rather obscure company would you like to see?, personally I would love a Vanillaware rep, either Momohime/Kisuke or Gwendolyn from Muramasa the Demon Blade and Odin Sphere respectively.

Blanc from Neptunia, because she represents Nintendo in those games.

 

[Perkilator]

If Dr. Eggman was a DLC fighter in Smash Ultimate Vol. 1, what stage would you pick for him? I’d go with either the Death Egg or the Interstellar Amusement Park.

 

[Dukefire]

If Dr. Eggman was a DLC fighter in Smash Ultimate Vol. 1, what stage would you pick for him? I’d go with either the Death Egg or the Interstellar Amusement Park.

I could say either Metropolis or Sky Sanctuary Zone.

 

[Quillion]

I still think that’s a stupid fan rule to disqualify characters that have only appeared in one game. If the character is popular enough, there is no reason why something like that would prevent them from joining the roster. I think people are making the false assumption that just because something hasn’t happened yet, it means it can’t happen. I highly doubt we’re going to be stuck with just the triforce trio forever.

Yeah, your so-called "rule" falls under another "rule" which invalidated it at least once. So my point still stands: a new "rule" may come up and invalidate once again your "no one-shot rule".

It makes sense that Smash "focuses" on Link, Zelda and Ganon, yes. But "focusing" and "choosing those characters as the ones and only" are two different things. Besides, Metroid games are about Samus' lonely fight against the Space Pirates, not Ridley in particular, so according to you, she should be the only playable character of her serie.

The "no Zelda one-shots" rule isn't written, but patterns in action have established that things have gotten stricter since then rather than looser. Every one-shot since Sheik is an AT at best.

Also Ridley is like the Darth Vader of Metroid. Not the main villain, but most marketed consistently.

Anyway, Zelda herself should get her Light Arrow reworked as a projectile normal FSmash and USmash. Ganon probably needs some kind of moveset swap option to please Canondorf fans and Falcondorf fans.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Blanc from Neptunia, because she represents Nintendo in those games.

I think the proper Neptune would be a better choice for rep Neptunia imo. But I will like to see it, would be a cool meta reference being a videogame character based on videogame console in a videogame fighter.

Anyway, Zelda herself should get her Light Arrow reworked as a projectile normal FSmash and USmash. Ganon probably needs some kind of moveset swap option to please Canondorf fans and Falcondorf fans.

Light Arrow has a Smash Attacks would kinda work but I have doubts. My take in Canon/Falcondorf is either 1-Make Falcondorf an alternative character has an "EX Ganondorf" or 2- Mix their moves:

1. Neutral B: Dead Man's Volley
2. Side B: Flame Choke
3. Up B: Shadowport (I don't know the proper name of the attack)
4. Down B: Wizard's Foot

And mantain his popular Smash attacks, DORIYAH!

 

[Geno Boost]

Interesing to see that most of the characters that people wants from this particular thematic are from RPGs, it would be very cool to have one of them in the next game!

We are probably gonna get more RPG characters in the next smash game but I would like if next smash tries to explore characters from genre that haven’t been represented in playable form like Steve was entirely unique concept of trying to translate sandbox game into a fighting game

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

I would also like to see some new genres (FPS with Doom Slayer, Visual Novels with Saber, Phoenix or Makoto Naegi, Beat em' Ups with Joe Musashi, Bill Ryzer or Axel Stone, Run and Gun with the Marco Rossi, etc).

 

[fogbadge]

If Dr. Eggman was a DLC fighter in Smash Ultimate Vol. 1, what stage would you pick for him? I’d go with either the Death Egg or the Interstellar Amusement Park.

the ark

 

[Lenidem]

The "no Zelda one-shots" rule isn't written, but patterns in action have established that things have gotten stricter since then rather than looser. Every one-shot since Sheik is an AT at best.

Also Ridley is like the Darth Vader of Metroid. Not the main villain, but most marketed consistently.

Anyway, Zelda herself should get her Light Arrow reworked as a projectile normal FSmash and USmash. Ganon probably needs some kind of moveset swap option to please Canondorf fans and Falcondorf fans.

Patterns are not rules. "Things have gotten stricter"? They can become flexible again.

You say "Zelda is about Link & Zelda vs Ganon, so those three only" but not "Metroid is about Samus alone, totally isolated, so Samus only". You find a justification for Ridley and Dark Samus, you can find one for Ghirahim/Midna/Skull Kid/Tingle.

 

[Sucumbio]

Speaking of Arks...

If we breach 4th parties gonna give a nod to Indy especially his late 90s design

Though I'd go for this too

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Talking about other Arks, I finally reminded another even more obscure character that I would like to see, Ark from Terranigma, Terranigma is beautiful fr, one of the bests RPGs of the SNES era. It doesn't even need to be playable, a assists or even a goddamn png would be all I require.

 

[MasterCheef]

Anyway, Zelda herself should get her Light Arrow reworked as a projectile normal FSmash and USmash.

Yes, Please.

 

[ForsakenM]

The lack of a Bowser's Castle, and a lot of Ultimate's weird stage roster, is a side effect of bringing almost every old stage back. Unlike the character roster, which is largely additive, basically all the pre-ultimate games have a completely new stage selection. In Melee and Brawl returning stages are marketed as bonuses, and Smash 4 was about half and half, with there still being a lot of stages not in either version. This means a lot of stages are essentially copies of one another. Every game needs to add a grassy plains Mario stage, an arena based Pokemon stage, etc. And when they bring all of them back, you have a ton of redundancy, because Mushroom Kingdom, Mushrooms Kingdom, and Mushrooms Kingdom U were never meant to coexist.

As much as a Bowser's Castle would be nice, the only place they could have slotted it in would be Smash 3DS, replacing either 3D Land or Golden Plains.

I mean, I know of a character I want that could easily come with Bowser's Castle as part of the stage, if not the focus...

 

[Quillion]

Check out this new feature that was revealed for Street Fighter 6:

With the Modern Control Type (Simplified), moves can be performed by combining the "Special Move" button with a directional input, Left or Right, and possibly in addition to the Up, Down, diagonal and potentially Neutral areas of the directional pad, for a total of 9 different combinations for gamers to experiment with while playing.

It appears that Smash's influence is reaching into traditional fighters now. I welcome this.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Check out this new feature that was revealed for Street Fighter 6:



It appears that Smash's influence is reaching into traditional fighters now. I welcome this.

This type of controls we're already a thing in other games like Granblue Fantasy versus tho.

 

[Sucumbio]

If Dr. Eggman was a DLC fighter in Smash Ultimate Vol. 1, what stage would you pick for him? I’d go with either the Death Egg or the Interstellar Amusement Park.

Bottom Text

 

[Quillion]

This type of controls we're already a thing in other games like Granblue Fantasy versus tho.

TIL something about modern traditional fighters.

Are there any button+direction controls in fighting games that predate Smash?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

TIL something about modern traditional fighters.

Are there any button+direction controls in fighting games that predate Smash?

Predating Smash, no, at least afaik.

 

[Quillion]

Predating Smash, no, at least afaik.

So my point of Smash's influence reaching into traditional fighters still stands then.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Patterns are not rules. "Things have gotten stricter"? They can become flexible again.

You say "Zelda is about Link & Zelda vs Ganon, so those three only" but not "Metroid is about Samus alone, totally isolated, so Samus only". You find a justification for Ridley and Dark Samus, you can find one for Ghirahim/Midna/Skull Kid/Tingle.

I think Tingle could be great.

 

[Quillion]

Patterns are not rules. "Things have gotten stricter"? They can become flexible again.

You say "Zelda is about Link & Zelda vs Ganon, so those three only" but not "Metroid is about Samus alone, totally isolated, so Samus only". You find a justification for Ridley and Dark Samus, you can find one for Ghirahim/Midna/Skull Kid/Tingle.

Rules themselves can be made or broken over time too. The Smash series's showing hasn't favored a single Zelda one-shot (or Mario spin-off character for that matter) since Melee.

Ridley has always been consistently marketed and has consistently served as the "Big Bad's lieutenant" in most Metroid games. Dark Samus/Metroid Prime is too, if only for her eponymous sub-series.

You can't find one thing about any of the Zelda one-shots marketed in any game after their sole appearances.

I think Tingle could be great.

Too bad the funny, unique Tingle is for some reason being phased out in favor of Beedle lately, whose only real character traits are liking beetles and being very slightly fruity.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

So my point of Smash's influence reaching into traditional fighters still stands then.

I think that even if they have the same idea I don't think it is the Smash influence and rather just the logical conclusion of simplificate a special attack, apart, it looks like SF6 is actually very bloated in mechanics

You can't find one thing about any of the Zelda one-shots marketed in any game after their sole appearances.

What about Hyrule Warriors?

 

[Quillion]

I think that even if they have the same idea I don't think it is the Smash influence and rather just the logical conclusion of simplificate a special attack, apart, it looks like SF6 is actually very bloated in mechanics

I mean yeah, but I was referring more to Smash's button+direction control style rather than its lack of mechanical bloat (excluding some of the newer characters).

What about Hyrule Warriors?

Touché; probably should've said "mainline game."

 

[Swamp Sensei]

TIL something about modern traditional fighters.

Are there any button+direction controls in fighting games that predate Smash?

Most command normals in any fighting game are a button + a direction.

C'mon bruh. SF2 had some.

 

[Quillion]

Most command normals in any fighting game are a button + a direction.

C'mon bruh. SF2 had some.

IIRC, it was Super SF2 Turbo that introduced the command normals, but I guess that counts.

Still though, I was referring more to specials that use button+direction inputs rather than command inputs. That said, normals and command normals that use 3-6 buttons plus a special button that can select a special with a directional input sounds like a good compromise. IIRC again, DBFZ has 3 normal buttons and a special button.

Now I'm wondering if command normals could work in Smash...

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Most command normals in any fighting game are a button + a direction.

C'mon bruh. SF2 had some.

It's quite obvious that he is refering to specials, but it's true, there are command normals, and even some games has specials with only an input somehow.

For examples, Geese's Raimei Goha Nage was just a DR + Punch until KOF XIV, there are a lot of specials that are just "tap the button very fast" like Chun-Li's Hyakuretsukyaku, BlazBlue has the Drives that are a special unique mechanic for all characters, some of the Drives are attacks that only requires an input (probably one of the most notorious cases being Celica who has rekkas with this button that ends healing herself).

IIRC, it was Super SF2 Turbo that introduced the command normals, but I guess that counts.

Still though, I was referring more to specials that use button+direction inputs rather than command inputs. That said, normals and command normals that use 3-6 buttons plus a special button that can select a special with a directional input sounds like a good compromise. IIRC again, DBFZ has 3 normal buttons and a special button.

Now I'm wondering if command normals could work in Smash...

I mean, there are command normals in Smash, the tilts.

 

[Quillion]

I mean, there are command normals in Smash, the tilts.

I guess that counts again, especially since Ryu's F-tilt is his overhead. That said, I find the tilts more akin to mediums on a 6-button scheme.

TBH, while I use the "tilt" terminology in public when possible, I privately refer to them as "mediums". Partly because I see the smashes as "strongs", and partly because I've come to increasingly dislike A-stick smashing and would like to turn that off so that the only A-stick moves are tilts. Again, the Smash Crusade fangame does the latter.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

IIRC, it was Super SF2 Turbo that introduced the command normals, but I guess that counts.

Still though, I was referring more to specials that use button+direction inputs rather than command inputs. That said, normals and command normals that use 3-6 buttons plus a special button that can select a special with a directional input sounds like a good compromise. IIRC again, DBFZ has 3 normal buttons and a special button.

Now I'm wondering if command normals could work in Smash...

Many fighting games have special moves that are triggered by tapping down twice and a button. Does that count?

 

[Quillion]

Many fighting games have special moves that are triggered by tapping down twice and a button. Does that count?

Can you give me an example? I don't want to search up every traditional fighter to find one.

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Can you give me an example? I don't want to search up every traditional fighter to find one.

Oh right!, there are various like the Melty Blood games, in fact Melty Blood does something interesing and it's that all the characters have the same inputs (some of them would lack a double down move but thats it), making the characters easier to learn. Should be noted that most of this moves are usually "mechanic-attached" moves like Eltnum's reload. Under Night In-Birth by the same developers is another case.

 

[Quillion]

Oh right!, there are various like the Melty Blood games, in fact Melty Blood does something interesing and it's that all the characters have the same inputs (some of them would lack a double down move but thats it), making the characters easier to learn. Should be noted that most of this moves are usually "mechanic-attached" moves like Eltnum's reload. Under Night In-Birth by the same developers is another case.

Sounds kinda like how DBFZ's only command inputs are various forms of QC motions, but are Melty Blood's commands more homogenous in a good way?

 

[Infinity Sorcerer]

Sounds kinda like how DBFZ's only command inputs are various forms of QC motions, but are Melty Blood's commands more homogenous in a good way?

At least I consider it in that way, everyone has a QCF, a QCB, a S and sometimes either a double down or a RS, and all the supers are HCBF + attack meanwhile the "super super moves" are just a button (but they are counters so it's required that the counter lands to perform the move), also there is only one motion for each move since there are only 3 attack buttons and one of them is for the EX version of the move (unless that move doesn't have an EX, that only happens with the utility specials like teleports). I consider it necessary since the game has different movesets for the same character using the Moon Styles, so is necessary to have some sort of homogeny between moves to don't make them difficult to remind.

 

[Ivander]

But why are these two still in conversation from multiple people? They've been left by the wayside in terms of marketing AND are one-shots in a series with a fairly consistent main cast. For established franchises, you can have a recurring character left by the wayside OR a one-shot that's been marketed heavily, but NOT a one-shot that's been abandoned.

Krystal is far from a one-shot. She was in Adventures, Assault, Command and supposedly, some of the Star Fox Zero developers wanted to put her in Zero. And the demand for her to appear in another Star Fox game is there. Plus the Star Fox 64-Adventures-Assault-Command storyline was consistent until they returned to Star Fox 64's story for Zero.

Lyndis was definitely a one-shot. Unless the demand for her on the Ballot was high, I don't think she'll get another chance for Smash Bros. UNLESS they do a remake for Fire Emblem 6/7 like they did for Shadow Dragon/Marth's games and Gaiden-Echoes/Alm & Celica's game and it's being done at the right time for Sakurai to really consider her.
The Director for Fire Emblem Echoes did state that he wanted to do a remake for Fire Emblem 6/Roy's game, which Fire Emblem 7/Lyn's game was the prequel for Fire Emblem 6. A remake for or involving Fire Emblem 7 is probably the only big opportunity she really has to truly have a possibility.

 

[Quillion]

Krystal is far from a one-shot. She was in Adventures, Assault, Command and supposedly, some of the Star Fox Zero developers wanted to put her in. And the demand for her to appear in another Star Fox game is there. Plus the Star Fox 64-Adventures-Assault-Command storyline was consistent until they returned to Star Fox 64's story for Zero.

I can even understand Krystal, as even though she's not in the newest reboot, she was a major character for several games in a row.

For established franchises, you can have a recurring character left by the wayside...

Lyndis was definitely a one-shot. Unless the demand for her on the Ballot was high, I don't think she'll get another chance for Smash Bros. UNLESS they do a remake for Fire Emblem 6/7 like they did for Shadow Dragon/Marth's games and Gaiden-Echoes/Alm & Celica's game and it's being done at the right time for Sakurai to really consider her.

...OR a one-shot that's been marketed heavily, but NOT a one-shot that's been abandoned.

It's not being a one-shot that bothers me, it's more being a one-shot that's been left behind rather than consistently marketed afterwards. Again, recurring characters that have been left behind should have a chance, and one-shot characters who continue to be marketed should too. Not so much one-shots who are left behind, a deadly combination.

 

[dream1ng]

It is the unfortunate truth that non-current Zelda one-shots probably won't amount to more than they are now unless they can bolster their demand to top tier levels. But doing that is going to necessitate the fanbase unifying behind a single candidate, maybe two, because now the Zelda demand is splintered into factions too small to make a difference.

That's going to require a candidate really pulling ahead to a degree notable enough to siphon off demand from others, like how at one point, during Smash 4, K. Rool and Dixie were much closer in popularity, but then K. Rool managed to become the nearly uncontested request of his series.

Problem seems to be that Skull Kid is the diehard favorite but not popular enough to drown out the others, Impa is the one that actually keeps appearing, and then the newest one-off(s) will capture attention for periods of time as well.

 

[ZelDan]

Wasn't Lyn in both Fire Emblem 6 and 7? I think she showed up in FE Warriors as well.

On top of this, Lyn is definitely one of the more popular FE characters and I'm guessing has probably gotten a lot of love in Heroes.

To reduce her to being just a one-off doesn't seem accurate to me.

 

[Ivander]

Wasn't Lyn in both Fire Emblem 6 and 7? I think she showed up in FE Warriors as well.

On top of this, Lyn is definitely one of the more popular FE characters and I'm guessing has probably gotten a lot of love in Heroes.

To reduce her to being just a one-off doesn't seem accurate to me.

Eliwood and Hector were in both 6 and 7, since Eliwood and Hector were Roy and Lilina's father respectively. Lyndis was only in Fire Emblem 7. And yeah, she was the only GBA rep to appear in Fire Emblem Warriors since she was very popular.
She's very popular, especially among Fire Emblem fans where in the first Choose Your Legends Vote for Heroes, Lyndis was the Number 1 Most Popular Female character, with Lucina being the 2nd Most Popular Female. Ike was the Number 1 Most Popular Male character while Roy was the 2nd Most Popular Male character.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah Lyn was in Warriors, but spin-offs don't seem to really tip the needle much for Smash, so they generally aren't counterpoints to being one-offs. For instance, all the notable Zelda one-offs appear in Hyrule Warriors, but that doesn't really help all that much.

It's that being a one-off in a series like FE isn't inherently as damning since most characters are one-offs (in the mainline games) by function of the constantly rotating cast. That said, getting phased out in a series with a rotating cast is pretty damaging, because they rely heavily on recency for Smash.

Though with that in mind, I'm sure many people would prefer getting Lyn than whoever the newest lord happens to be. She would stand a better chance if they didn't seem to insist on featuring the current title.

 

[Quillion]

Wasn't Lyn in both Fire Emblem 6 and 7? I think she showed up in FE Warriors as well.

On top of this, Lyn is definitely one of the more popular FE characters and I'm guessing has probably gotten a lot of love in Heroes.

To reduce her to being just a one-off doesn't seem accurate to me.

...and one-shot characters who continue to be marketed should [also have a chance].

Yeah Lyn was in Warriors, but spin-offs don't seem to really tip the needle much for Smash, so they generally aren't counterpoints to being one-offs. For instance, all the notable Zelda one-offs appear in Hyrule Warriors, but that doesn't really help all that much.

It's that being a one-off in a series like FE isn't inherently as damning since most characters are one-offs (in the mainline games) by function of the constantly rotating cast. That said, getting phased out in a series with a rotating cast is pretty damaging, because they rely heavily on recency for Smash.

Though with that in mind, I'm sure many people would prefer getting Lyn than whoever the newest lord happens to be. She would stand a better chance if they didn't seem to insist on featuring the current title.

I feel like these "rotating cast" franchises need to focus on established and older characters for the base game while reserving the new kids for DLC.