Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

If you’re going to go through the trouble to make a fake leak, at least make it interesting. Where’s the fun if all the characters are the safest possible choices you could go with?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

If the leak was first posted on 4Chan, I'm going to assuming it's most likely false by default.

 

[Ivander]

Metal Mario being on this list as an Echo alone makes me think this is nonsense (imagine putting a Metal character into a game where the Metal Box is an item so Mario can literally just become his Echo if items are on)

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[SMAASH! Puppy]

If the likes of Chun-Li, a major Resident Evil character, Phoenix Wright, a Monster Hunter/Felyne/smaller incarnation of Rathalos/etc., Zero, Dante, Frank West, Amaterasu, etc. are on the table and you go for something like Saki Omokane from Quiz Nanairo Dreams because she'd fuction as a "surprise character", that's a problem.

I think if we were getting a surprise character from Capcom, it would be Arthur.

Honestly I'd consider Frank West and Amaterasu as surprise characters too, but if a character were to be selected this way, it'd probably be Arthur.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It also doesn't mention us getting a new Pokémon rep, unless they're saving that for DLC instead.

This is also a very good point, considering we get a Pokemon newcomer EVERY game. Even Ultimate, which released one year before Gen 8 would come out (so Pokemon Company was definitely working on it and they could've promoted it, but it never got a DLC character, just Spirits) and only had 6 original newcomers at launch, still had Incineroar added.

 

[RileyXY1]

Probably fake as hell leak but I leave this here for discussion purposes or for something to make fun of lol.

Tho the newcomers sound reasonable enough I suppose. The thing that makes the leak sound fake is the name of the new smash bros game. Supposedly is a continuation of Ultimate and the game is called the same as Ultimate but with the name reversed on how it was called in japan and America. And we are losing the final fantasy characters on base game for problems with negotiations supposedly. Take all this information as you will lol.

Apparently according to this leak we're still getting Cloud and Sephiroth returning, as they do say that Zack Fair is being added as an Echo Fighter of Cloud. I think they're saying that some of FF's Spirits, Mii Fighter costumes, and Spirits were being holed up for legal issues. Also according to them we're getting Tifa on top of Zack added so that they can bring back all the missing FF content, so if this leak is true we're actually getting 4 characters from FF7.

 

[Ivander]

Anyway,

Until the Switch 2 Direct. We're almost there.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think if we were getting a surprise character from Capcom, it would be Arthur.

Honestly I'd consider Frank West and Amaterasu as surprise characters too, but if a character were to be selected this way, it'd probably be Arthur.

A "surprise character" can't be a main protagonist.
Going by Sakurai's explanation of Piranha Plant which he mentions Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt as previous additions that follow the trend is to be someone who isn't a typical "hero/heroine" type.

This is why I mentioned Saki as an example, being just one of many girls you can date in a dating sim rather than a protagonist/heroine.

 

[Gengar84]

A "surprise character" can't be a main protagonist.
Going by Sakurai's explanation of Piranha Plant which he mentions Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt as previous additions that follow the trend is to be someone who isn't a typical "hero/heroine" type.

This is why I mentioned Saki as an example, being just one of many girls you can date in a dating sim rather than a protagonist/heroine.

Does Magus from Chrono Trigger count as a surprise character? If so, I’ll go with him. I do think he has a non-zero chance now that multiple Chrono Trigger projects were announced to be in the works.

 

[RileyXY1]

Another thing that's making me doubt this rumor is Mach Rider being added as an Echo of the Excitebiker. The only cross-series clone to date is still Ganondorf, while they've never had a franchise's sole rep be a clone. Also, Mach Rider rides a motorbike while the Excitebiker rides a normal bike, which would lead to changes in hitbox placement as Mach Rider will have a much wider hitbox.

 

[NotGenerico]

If the leak was first posted on 4Chan, I'm going to assuming it's most likely false by default.

The funny thing is that there will be one 4chan leak that will be legit. It'll be the one leak that everyone overlooks and gets absolutely no traction. That's what always ends up happening.

For example:

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I don't even think Wii Fit Trainer were originally intended to be surprise characters, were they? IIRC Sakurai just thought had potential as a character and that Wii Fit was influential enough to consider them. Something along those lines, at least.

Either way, I don't think they were necessarily intended to "surprise" everyone, or at the very least certainly weren't chosen because of the surprise factor. Their addition in Smash 4 mostly just surprised virtually everyone because the game had been released a long time ago and nobody...really anticipated them, compared to most of the other newcomers that the final game got (except maybe Cloud).

 

[BrawlX10]

I'll take it as nothing but a dime a dozen random /v/ "leak" since this is by far not the only one that's come up since the beginning of the month and this is just some random YouTuber posting on it now.

In fact, I have the original post right here since I save these for archival purposes JUST FOR random coverage like this. View attachment 400325

Let's not give random fake leaks attention just because some nobody that wants to be the next LaxChris/Blocked Content covers it. No seriously, if you look at his other videos, he's covering every other random /v/ "leak", not just this one.

Honestly, this leak is so bad, it hurts.

 

[Ivander]

A "surprise character" can't be a main protagonist.
Going by Sakurai's explanation of Piranha Plant which he mentions Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt as previous additions that follow the trend is to be someone who isn't a typical "hero/heroine" type.

This is why I mentioned Saki as an example, being just one of many girls you can date in a dating sim rather than a protagonist/heroine.

Saki would probably be one of the less Surprise characters because of her appearances in MvC and Tatsunoko vs Capcom. If anything, the actual surprise character would be someone along the lines of a character from Gaia Master(like Princess Tiara, a character who was suggested for Tatsunoko vs Capcom), a character from El Dorado Gate or Amingo/SonSon the 3rd/Ruby Heart from MvC2.

 

[PeridotGX]

I'll take it as nothing but a dime a dozen random /v/ "leak" since this is by far not the only one that's come up since the beginning of the month and this is just some random YouTuber posting on it now.

In fact, I have the original post right here since I save these for archival purposes JUST FOR random coverage like this. View attachment 400325

Let's not give random fake leaks attention just because some nobody that wants to be the next LaxChris/Blocked Content covers it. No seriously, if you look at his other videos, he's covering every other random /v/ "leak", not just this one.

ANOTHER DOZEN CHARACTERS TO FINAL FANTASY VII

That's not even getting into how unlikely I feel like Lyn is even if she's really popular because Intelligent Systems has always gone for their newest thing aside from Marth, the Hero King and face of the franchise, and Chrom, who was added as an Echo even though he was popular on the Ballot.

I don't believe this leak at all, but I think it's possible we get a character from an "older" Fire Emblem Game instead of an Engage rep - specifically a Heroes OC. It's easily Nintendo's biggest mobile game (excluding Pokemon), has been going fairly strong since the release of the Switch, and has been referenced in mainline Fire Emblem games.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Not the same thing but Ryunosuke would make a great alt for Phoenix if the Collab did happen.

I kinda imagine a sort of echo fighter situation where they put one of Phoenix's moves from MVC where Maya comes running in to slap the opponent being replaced with a slightly different animation of Susato pushing the opponent down like she does in the actual Great ace attorney games.

The funny thing is that there will be one 4chan leak that will be legit. It'll be the one leak that everyone overlooks and gets absolutely no traction. That's what always ends up happening.

For example:

The Sora one was funny because it definitely sounded fake but it turned out to be completely true.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Saki would probably be one of the less Surprise characters because of her appearances in MvC and Tatsunoko vs Capcom. If anything, the actual surprise character would be someone along the lines of a character from Gaia Master(like Princess Tiara, a character who was suggested for Tatsunoko vs Capcom), a character from El Dorado Gate or Amingo/SonSon the 3rd/Ruby Heart from MvC2.

That's literally like saying R.O.B. would be less of a surprise character just because he made appearances in other games, including Mario Kart DS as a racer.

And yet he's Brawl's token "surprise character".


Or the whole debate on Duck Hunt vs. Wii Fit Trainer because people did discuss the Dog while the Trainer never came up in discussion until her reveal. And yet Duck Hunt was the token "surprise character" of For, not Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[smashkirby]

Astral Chain?

Nah, we gotta go back and pick up Wonder Red. We forgot to let him in Smash 4; it’s only fair.

As someone who unironically wanted Wonder Red in Smash 4 as DLC, it kind of bums me out that he never really got much of a chance to make a good impression on Nintendo like Astral Chain did.

I honestly don't get that "literally who" mindset, discovering new characters, stages, items, franchises and etc that you don't know about is fun and part of what makes big crossovers fun, imo. Like i didn't know 90% of the cast of Project x Zone 1 back in 2013 and i still had a lot of fun with the game discovering all of that.

Even as someone who didn't know the majority of Nintendo's catalogue prior to Smash Bros., I always found it fun learning about these characters and what their whole deal was.

Heck, my love of Smash Bros. delving into the lesser-known has even bled out into me appreciating the lesser-known stuff that comes about in crossovers like Capcom's VS. games, Namco's 'X' games, and SEGA's Superstars games.

Something a bit off topic, do you guys see a 3rd party 'surprise/wtf/random' character (not necessarily a joke character, just someone in the vein of ROB, Mr. Game & Watch etc., someone who's completely left field as an option basically) or do you think these are reserved for 1st parties with the 3rd parties being primarily bigger/more recent hits

Sadly, no. Aside from the fact that I'd strongly prefer for Nintendo to keep such a thing exclusive to their own IP when it comes to Smash, 3rd parties cost way more effort to add to Smash.

I just don't see Nintendo willing to shell out THAT much effort. Which bums me out, as there genuinely are a LOT 3rd party characters I would legit LOVE see in Smash between SEGA, Capcom, and Namco alone.

If the likes of Chun-Li, a major Resident Evil character, Phoenix Wright, a Monster Hunter/Felyne/smaller incarnation of Rathalos/etc., Zero, Dante, Frank West, Amaterasu, etc. are on the table and you go for something like Saki Omokane from Quiz Nanairo Dreams because she'd fuction as a "surprise character", that's a problem.

Man... believe me, I totally understand the point you're trying to make here, but I can't help but be bummed out, as I actually would genuinely lose my mind (in a VERY good way) if Saki Omokane really did make it into Smash Bros..

 

[SharkLord]

The designated "surprise characters" seem to be a collection of weirdos from Nintendo's catalogue. Oftentimes, they're not actual characters originally, and Smash has to develop a character out of that concept, like Mr. Game and Watch and Piranha Plant being stitched together out of a bunch of different sprites and subspecies. Like people have been said before, Nintendo isn't paying the licenses to an obscure character from Sega or Capcom just for the sake of a surprise.

 

[Ivander]

That's literally like saying R.O.B. would be less of a surprise character just because he made appearances in other games, including Mario Kart DS as a racer.

And yet he's Brawl's token "surprise character".

Not really because TvC gave Saki a moveset, something that alot of people use in favor for other Capcom characters, ESPECIALLY Pheonix Wright, who's MvC moveset is in turn used as a support for other characters like Ayumi or Layton. Mario Kart never gave R.O.B. a moveset.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Not really because TvC gave Saki a moveset, something that alot of people use in favor for other Capcom characters, ESPECIALLY Pheonix Wright, who is in turn used for characters like Ayumi or Layton. Mario Kart never gave R.O.B. a moveset.

That is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I don't believe this leak at all, but I think it's possible we get a character from an "older" Fire Emblem Game instead of an Engage rep - specifically a Heroes OC. It's easily Nintendo's biggest mobile game (excluding Pokemon), has been going fairly strong since the release of the Switch, and has been referenced in mainline Fire Emblem games.

I mean I could potentially see Heroes getting something like Veronica, though I don't personally think it'd be instead of an Engage character, and instead she'd be like a collectible or an Assist Trophy, or potentially as some part of Alear's kit though I don't personally think about (or like the idea of) Alear being the "these characters missed the boat" character. Heroes is definitely in a weird spot as a mobile game still receiving updates that it could be theoretically possible though.

None of that really matters to Lyn though, who in my opinion is more likely to remain an Assist Trophy (though I do hope her voice gets updated since she has an official VA and it's not Lani Minella).

 

[Ivander]

That is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

It's part of the character, how is it irrelevant? Especially when part of the surprise character being a surprise is "How the heck are they going to play?" Something you can attribute to Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt and Piranha Plant.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

It's part of the character, how is it irrelevant? Especially when part of the surprise character being a surprise is "How the heck are they going to play?" Something you can attribute to Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt and Piranha Plant.

Whoever said "How the heck are they going to play?" was ever part of the criteria?
I didn't.
Sakurai didn't.


Furthermore you then contradict yourself by mentioning the MvC2 OCs as options when....the very game they're from shows how they would fight.

 

[Ivander]

Whoever said "How the heck are they going to play?" was ever part of the criteria?

Me?

Saki would probably be one of the less Surprise characters because of her appearances in MvC and Tatsunoko vs Capcom.

Furthermore you then contradict yourself by mentioning the MvC2 OCs as options when....the very game they're from shows how they would fight.

I mean, wouldn't you be surprised they chose them over more popular MvC characters like Strider or Morrigan?

 

[CosmicEternity44]

There is something I said about Ultimate not being a good follow up to the days of the Smash Ballot, but that was seemingly ignored and looked over, so I would like to go into more detail on that, if you don’t mind.

You see, as I said before, there were more humanoid characters and echoes (and a semi-clone) than those with original movesets and non-humanoid physiques, all in the base game. That said, the fact that “Everyone is Here” was a priority make it harder to use time and resources for not only more single player modes, but more original characters. I mean, Dixie Kong would likely have her own moveset rather than be a clone or echo, even though she could have been modeled after Diddy to an extent. Bandana Waddle Dee was non-humanoid, and I think it would have taken some significant time (not more than other characters, but still) to develop Bandana Waddle Dee and make a moveset for him. Then there’s Waluigi, who has a slender build that would probably be needed to be built from the ground up, not that it is a problem, but since he was an Assist Trophy in the past few games, it might have been easier to put him in that way, especially since he may have not been that much of a priority. There is also Isaac from Golden Sun, whose moveset might as well be wholly original, which the devs of Smash Bros. Ultimate did not have time for with the “Everyone is Here” thing.

And that is not counting the DLC, for while there were Banjo and Kazooie as well as Sora, both playable characters who all did well on the ballot and were second most voted and first most voted respectively, Banjo and Kazooie were technically humanoid, at least Banjo was, but they were a tag team character, so I don’t imagine that they were as easy to make as a normal, humanoid character. As for Sora, Sora basically was not going to be in Fighters Pass Two initially, from what I have read, until Sakurai met with those Disney reps. That said, it was said that Nintendo chose the DLC characters, so I don’t know how much control Sakurai had over that area. Even then, most of the characters that were DLC in Smash Bros. Ultimate were human/humanoid, so they were easier to work with.

But anyway, Ultimate was all after when the Ballot took place during Smash Bors. 4’s DLC period, and though many were wanted on that Ballot, Ultimate itself had focused on “Everyone is Here” as requested to Sakurai as last wish from Iwata, if I recall correctly. Point is, doing “Everyone is Here” for Ultimate took a lot of time and resources, so with fewer new characters in especially the base game, I personally don’t think Ultimate was the best way to follow up on the Ballot, especially in terms of adding more characters requested from the Ballot in the game that was created AFTER the ballot was finished.

 

[BrawlX10]

I think if we were getting a surprise character from Capcom, it would be Arthur.

Honestly I'd consider Frank West and Amaterasu as surprise characters too, but if a character were to be selected this way, it'd probably be Arthur.

I think those are more like sleeper picks than completely surprising characters. Someone I'd consider a surprise would be, I don't know, Leroy Smith from Tekken 7, Angelo from Dragon Quest VIII, June from Plasma Sword, or Bravoman from Bravoman... characters that basically no one thinks have an actual chance somehow getting in anyways.

I think Arthur, Amaterasu, and Frank West are more in the Terry and Sephiroth camp of "sleeper picks."

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Me?

A. You never actually said that's what you were going for. The way it's written implies her showing up in other games in general makes her less "surprising".

B. It's still an irrelevant point because to be a "surprise character" has nothing to do with a moveset option.

C. You then contradict yourself by mentioning the MvC2 OCs, which are from a fighting game with defined movesets. By your own reasoning they don't count either.

 

[Ivander]

C. You then contradict yourself by mentioning the MvC2 OCs, which are from a fighting game with defined movesets. By your own reasoning they don't count either.

I mean, wouldn't you be surprised they chose them over more popular MvC characters like Strider Hiryu or Morrigan? Darkstalkers? Strider? F-Zero? What are those? From a different dimension?

 

[fogbadge]

my feeling is that the next step for a surprise character should be an inanimate object. so get ready for the next surprise character The Triforce

 

[CosmicEternity44]

my feeling is that the next step for a surprise character should be an inanimate object. so get ready for the next surprise character The Triforce

This might be how the blocks from Tetris win if that counts.

 

[BrawlX10]

Nintendo isn't paying the licenses to an obscure character from Sega or Capcom just for the sake of a surprise

To be fair, i could see them doing a "surprise" AT, like throwing a Ristar, Billy Hatcher or Valkyrie AT in the mix just because why not, but as an actual fighter i don't think they'll do it.

 

[Will]

Dragonite be like "I love you" until someone brings out the competitive rules.

Why did he even crash out like that fr

 

[fogbadge]

This might be how the blocks from Tetris win if that counts.

why not?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Why did he even crash out like that fr

If I remember right, that's Lance's Dragonite destroying part of the Team Rocket hideout hidden underneath the souvenir shop in Mahogany Town in Gen 2? Since it was part of Pokemon Generations I believe.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why did he even crash out like that fr

Given the frown I'm guessing that's Iris's Dragonite, who's always angry.

Either that or it's Pokémon Origins, which is very dark in tone.

 

[Ivander]

If I remember right, that's Lance's Dragonite destroying part of the Team Rocket hideout hidden underneath the souvenir shop in Mahogany Town in Gen 2? Since it was part of Pokemon Generations I believe.

Yeah. Also, there was Iris' Dragonite in the Unova anime who was Kanto League Ash's Charizard in unpredictability and uncontrollable, but alot less sassy and much more angry.

 

[Dukefire]

Once Switch 2's information has been shown, then I'm more comfortable to see if Smash Bros may exist and other possible switch 2 titles other then Metroid Prime 4: Beyond and Mario Kart 9

 

[BrawlX10]

why not?

IIRC, a Tetronimo was added in Crusade a few years ago, so we know that a Tetromino can work in Smash. But now the question is: would Sakurai want a Tetromino in the game? It's also worth considering if he'd be able to envision them as a fighter.

But also lets remember: Just because people managed to make a Tetronimo into a fighter doesn't mean Sakurai would have the same vision for it. He has his own unique approach to character selection and design, so whether or not a Tetronimo would fit into his vision is another story.

 

[Will]

If I remember right, that's Lance's Dragonite destroying part of the Team Rocket hideout hidden underneath the souvenir shop in Mahogany Town in Gen 2? Since it was part of Pokemon Generations I believe.

****, wish Lance did that in the game instead of forcing a ten year old child to solve switch puzzles.

I don't believe this leak at all, but I think it's possible we get a character from an "older" Fire Emblem Game

Dear Nintendo please announce FE4: Genealogy of the Holy War remake already so Seliph AKA Marth’s twink cousin can induce rage in all the FE haters

Sigurd on a horse would also be really cool