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It's pretty subjective who needs an updated moveset but pretty much all games already change some characters' movesets. Brawl reworked Ganondorf, Smash 4 did it with Bowser and Pit, Ultimate had Link, etc.
You were talking about characters, though. There's no reason to change that. Fans are not complaining about something that the series has been centered around ever since it started and with so many other video game characters fans still want and many more as the years go by, there's no need to change it something else and upsetting the fanbase.
The reason why I mentioned Megami Tensei specifically so the point of origin regarding franchise representation doesn’t get ignored similar to how FF and Persona are represented in smash but FF1 and Persona 1 are completely ignored in any shape or form which doesn’t feels right. DQ representation was perfect compared to them.Well they managed to make Professor X work in one X-Men fighting game by literally having him do wheelies in the chair, so not impossible.
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Honestly I think I'd go the Ganondorf route and just have them show off their sword in a taunt. While I think the "too many anime swordsmen!" complaint is a bit overblown, there really isn't much unique SMT protagonists could do with a sword. What make SMT SMT is demon summoning (well unless your Digital Devil Saga), I think I would be fine with the demons being incorporated into every move and having the characters be something more like a summoner archtype. You have a interesting mechanic right there to fully fill out a moveset, a sword (and even the gun/magic) would just be a bit blasé.
Well that's kind of the entire flaw in the "no non video game characters" argument. The truth about Smash is that nothing is off the table, characters will get a pass if they deserve one. No, Sakurai isn't about to put Spongbob or Hank Hill in all willy nilly, but if there's a great character that happened to originate outside a video game then they will get a pass. Hell Dracula is already in the game as a boss! And as a literary character he's barely older than Mickey Mouse. Neigh sayers will counter with "That's not Bram Stoker's Dracula, that's Castlevannia's Dracula" when they are literally the same character acting the same way doing the same things. The same "that's not [non video game character] that's [video game version of non video game character]" logic could apply to pretty much any character someone could reasonably want because everyone has been in a video game. If Mike Tyson's and Nintendo kept in good terms and Nintendo made a bunch more successful Punch Out games with Mike Tyson in them then Mike Tyson would legitimately be a decent character to put in the game as a second Punch Out character. Sakurai's rule of "no non video game characters" isn't some kind of holy law that needs to be obeyed. It's a guiding principle. The only rule is "if Sakurai (or whomever else is in charge) thinks it's a good idea". If a character that originated outside of a video game presents itself then they could get in. The guy from the Witcher, Jearlt or whatever his name, might actually get in some day. A technicality of originating in a book series won't be an impediment (though like all third party characters, licensing might). Hell Lucario is technically a movie character.
Let's be real here; Castlevania's Dracula is different from Bram Stroker's Dracula. Sure, it's based on him but in the end, it's a different version of him that's set in it's own world. Look at Dragon Ball's Goku for example; he and history were based on Journey to the West, yet I think we all know that he's not literally the same character. It's a different version of that character, just like many other adaptions from it (including Nintendo's very own). So that can't be used as an excuse for non-video game characters.
Wait, I thought we did talk about that. I remember mentioning how Twitter thought it was Kid Icarus...
Final Fantasy, no, not really as the protagonists are pretty different and the attacks Cloud uses are pretty unique to him. It'd be a bit weird for Cecil or Terra to use Cross Slash. Joker you could get away with a bit more, but he still has his style element that he brings with him. Even though he (as far as I'm aware), doesn't use it in his own game, the Grappling Hook still looks like it fits on Joker whereas it wouldn't on other Megaten protagonists (not to mention the final smash). Of course that's just taking the character whole sale as is, which was never intended to be multiple characters. That being said though, I think the complaint is less about Cloud and Joker not having alts and more about how they brought nothing from the series except what is found in their own game. Ie all Final Fantasy content is missing from Smash aside from Final Fantasy VII, there are no spirits or stages from the other games.
Barely. Literal characters, human, non vampire characters, from the book are part of the lore of Castlevannia. The Goku example also isn't a great one as Goku was never meant to be or have any direct connection to the Monkey King, just inspired by him. Castlevannia's Dracula wasn't inspired by Bram Stoker's Dracula. When they went to make their NES/MSX vampire game they just literally used Bram Stoker's Dracula even putting the most stereotypical image of the character on the box. It's more like Manga Goku vs Dragon Ball Fighterz Goku (or Sung Wu Kong as an ancient literary character and as an SMT Demon). The only really special thing about Dracula is that he's just outside the age limit for licensing to take possession of him meaning people can publish him in fanfiction leading to him being an incredibly prolific character. If people were legally allowed to treat Goku the same way as Dracula then we'd similarly see Goku in such a situation.
That's cool.
Don't worry.
Dragon Ball was basically a comical take on the Monkey King, with Goku having many of the same features as a Sun Wukong (monkey tail, a staff, a floating cloud). Even some of the other characters like Oolong were based on characters from Journey to the West. So it's really the same thing as Castlevania's Dracula; they are different versions that are simply based on the original.
Not really. The first arc of the series did take some inspiration from Journey to the West, but Goku is not the Monkey King. He isn't even a monkey, just a kid with a monkey's tail. Nor is he a king. Nor is Bulma a monk. You can point to a lot more differences between Sung Wu Kong and Goku than you can between Castlevannia's Dracula and Bram Stoker's Dracula, even if we're limiting it to just their initial appearances before they did their own stuff with the characters. If Goku was a monkey called Sung Wu Kong then it would be more similar to Dracula. Or, indeed, if Castlevannia named their vampire something else. But Toriyama chose to make his character (and the world he inhabits) recognizably different from the classic Monkey King, while Konami chose to make their vampire recognizably similar to Dracula.
I mean Injustice 2 is exactly that, just without the Marvel.
Which they can only do because the book is public domain. It's not like Bram Stoker is like "Oh yeah, those Castlevania games are totally canon!"
I know the TMNT are in Injustice 2 but did it have other comic characters outside of DC? I never really paid much attention to the roster.
Custom moves were a really cool idea but I wish more characters got completely different specials like Palutena instead of variations of their current attacks. On a side note, I’m a little disappointed that Smash Ultimate ended up going with some of Palutena’s most boring specials. Did she really need both a counter and a reflector? Heavenly Light was a really cool and unique move and her other customs were fun too.
Palutena's Down Special was useful in Ultimate, but I think her Side Special should've been a nerfed Super Speed.
you mean the remastering of a nintendo game?
Well they clearly weren't trying with the Echo fighters to begin with. I mean, they didn't even bother giving them different hit box properties on their normal moves for the fighters introduced in Ultimate. If I remember the one difference people found between Daisy and Peach (vegetables bouncing physics or something) they later patched out! Back in Melee the clones all had the same movesets, but at least the damage and frame data were different enough to actually feel like a different fighter. Echo fighters just looked different without actually being different, to the extent that I'm almost surprised they didn't make Alf an Echo fighter.
I'm glad they kept explosive flame, as that's one of her most fun moves. Heavenly Light is a cool looking move, but it is rather useless as far as actual attacks go. It would have needed to have been revamped significantly to be useful. I think I would have made it so it's current version was a charging animation for a powerful blast. But then they're kind of limited with the way Heavenly light works in Uprising, which is exactly how it works in Smash (only more useful because of different mechanics). I think making all of Palutena's specials based off of powers in Smash might have been a misstep, especially since most of the stuff they gave her are things she does in her boss battle any way (ie take the inexplicable rocket flames out of her rocket jump and you have the attack she uses if Pit gets too close to her in Uprising). Though I suppose you could reduce the size of Heavenly Light, increase how long it's around for and give Palutena free mobility during the attack so it's a form of stage control rather than the sitting duck it makes her now so it would function a bit like Piranha Plant's side special. That would be pretty similar to Uprising and still useful (she does look cool while using it though).
Yeah, I mostly just mess around Vs. the AI in Smash so I never really minded a move being less competitively viable but I see your point. I just loved how unique Heavenly Light was. No other move in Smash was remotely similar so I thought that was really cool and it was sad to see it go.
I edited in some more comments about Heavenly Light could be used if it came back.
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, Dark Link into echo fighters?can use Rock Pikmincan have different specials such as ender pearl throw, gravity block (sand and gravel), trident, spawn baby zombie.
Goku is the Monkey King. His name Son Goku is the Japanese pronunciation of Sun Wukong. He also doesn't just have a monkey tail either. He transforms into a huge monkey. So yeah, Goku is based on Sun Wukong. Plus, there's also the other things I mentioned such as the floating cloud and staff. And, like I mentioned earlier, there's Oolong, a pig character who is based on Zhu Bajie, a pig character. So the similarities between Goku and Sun Wukong is very clear.
You're repeating yourself now. I'm not disputing that Goku is based off of Sun Wu Kong. He is clearly based off of Sun Wu Kong. He is not literally Sun Wu Kong though. While Dracula literally is Dracula. Put it this way, if Dracula wasn't a free to use IP, there's no way Konami would have been able to call their Transylvanian Vampire living in a castle Count Dracula. If Journey to the West wasn't a free to use IP, Toriyama still could have easily created a monkey boy traveling with a girl to find some mystical Dragon Balls with a transforming pig, because that would be a homage and not copyright infringement. If the Journey to the West copyright holders were particularly litigious they could cause some trouble, but Toriyama would likely win as Goku is clearly a different character with a different history, a different temperament, different motivations and a similar, though still absolutely different design. Castlevannia would even be a discussion, they'd be hastily renaming their count Nosferatu as soon as any of the Dracula ip holders took any notice. Dragon Ball would be considered a parody, Goku's traveling companion wants a life time's supply of strawberries, not ancient Buddhist scrolls revealing the secrets of enlightenment. The whole conceit of Dragon Ball is that it's different to Journey to the West, while the whole point of Dracula in Castlevannia is that he's exactly what you expect Dracula to be.
Dracula is literally Dracula in his own world, though. He's not Bram Stroker's Dracula. You also mentioned what name they can call a character but Sun Wukong really is Goku's name, just in a different language. In addition to that, the name Goku has been used for numerous characters based on Sun Wukong, as it's really the same name as the original source. Yet, we all know that they're different characters, just like with Dracula.
I think Delzethin does a good job of imagining a Samus rework:
I actually watched that recently. I think Delzethin’s moveset is really cool. I’d be happy if Smash ended up going this direction with her. I don’t seem to share a lot of the same taste in characters as he does based on his videos but they’re really well made and thought out so they’re fun to watch regardless.
I know Goku's name is the same as Monkey's, that's not the point I'm making. I'm saying that they are clearly different characters doing different things for different reasons. While both Draculas are not, they're both generic vampire villains.
en.wikipedia.org
No...they really aren't. Not in Castlevania's case. That version of Dracula is also a demon.
Oh, really? So what made you think I've never heard of that movie?
You're making a bunch of weird arguments but in the end, you can't deny that Castlevania's Dracula is their own version of the character. He has his own unique design, powers, and stories, just like Dragon Ball's Goku. Or the Goku from Yuyuki. It's all Sun Wukong but just different versions of him.
Jotari
: I'm pretty sure the point is that Dracula being a public domain character means he is literally owned by everyone and no one at once. Meaning everyone can interpret Dracula how they wish without the Stoker estate breathing down their necks. Sakurai just doesn't want non-video game characters unrelated to Nintendo.No, Ryu's already in Smash.
We might not be able to use that version, as it's based on a movie adaptation. HOWEVER...
i do
Which is why it's better to debate whether Sakurai SHOULD change his mind or not. I'd say reserve the non-video game characters to those whose video game adaptations have eclipsed their actual origins. That said, that just leaves an SMT character and The Witcher.
