Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

Actually, in a sense if taking account the fact that Mario and Luigi are famous in their hometown and might become more famous down the line, I wouldn't be surprised if they did something with Wario and Waluigi where they try to take advantage of Mario and Luigi's popularity & reputation and prop themselves up as the "Wario Bros", without people knowing that they aren't Mario & Luigi, nor actually related and are simply trying to con people out of their money. Then when whatever shenanigans happens later between them and the Mario Bros, that moment becomes the start of their actual rivalry with the Mario Bros.

I thought it'd be pretty funny if Foreman Spike hired them and forced them to dress like bootleg Mario and Luigi to boost the Wrecking Crew's prestige.

Something about these two being in a destruction crew feels right, and Waluigi has had vague ties to Wrecking Crew and Foreman Spike for a little while now (Mario DDR, Mario Kart DS). And allows them to build further on the back of the existing worldbuilding from the first film, and explore Spike's transition from hating the Bros into practically idolizing them (or seeing the potential $$$ in being associated with them).

 

[Kirbeh]

There's so much potential in what you could do with Waluigi, be it on his own , paired with Wario and so on. I just don't think the interest is there internally.

They've already got their hands full with a dozen or so Mario and Mario-related series in rotation. Why make another for someone who's essentially a minor extra?

Much like how K. Rool's popularity came as a surprise, "Mario spin-off filler purple man" probably doesn't register as a character that they should invest more time into. He's "that guy a vocal minority of Westerners really like for some reason."

Within the context of Smash though? I think he fares much better but I don't see him as a lock either. He's got the fan demand for sure at least.

 

[Louie G.]

I will say, for a "filler" character Waluigi must require a great deal of effort to include in these games. His spindly body type resembles nobody else, his personality is strong and pushes him to animate and emote uniquely compared to the rest of the cast. So if you're adding Waluigi, you're going out of your way to do so.

Of course, the circumstances that required Waluigi to be made are conditional. Wario needed a doubles partner, so we made Waluigi. Perhaps in Double Dash you could argue this pushed him over the edge too. But from that point forward I would say very deliberate regard was dealt toward the character to include him in all these games, frankly even more than someone like Daisy who can much more easily be built over Peach's model.

As we've been made painfully aware, this doesn't mean his role transcends this special attention in these spinoff and party games. But I do think it lends more credibility to Waluigi as an intentional character than being filler, and arguably has been treated with greater attention to detail as of late than he ever has been before. I mean, clearly someone had a lot of fun designing this.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

We already got Mario Paint 2. It's called Mario Maker.

It’s called Mario Artist lol

 

[Kirbeh]

Did Shift Up did the same for Stellar Blade?

Not that I can recall, only ads I saw were pretty standard cutscene/gameplay stuff.

More than likely due to the Sony partnership, Shift Up marketing had to be reigned in or marketing was handled by Sony altogether. Probably for the best it didn't get the Nikke ad treatment. That would only hurt it's already rocky perception, just like what happened with Nikke.

Monty would be cute.
Not my first choice for a digging/tunneling character, but I'll take it.

Not mine either but I wouldn't say no to Monty. If we were ever to get a mole though I'd want it to be Muddy. Otherwise, there are actually a few digging/tunneling characters I'd like to see. Jill, Knuckles, Greavard, etc.

 

[NintenRob]

I will say, for a "filler" character Waluigi must require a great deal of effort to include in these games. His spindly body type resembles nobody else, his personality is strong and pushes him to animate and emote uniquely compared to the rest of the cast. So if you're adding Waluigi, you're going out of your way to do so.

Of course, the circumstances that required Waluigi to be made are conditional. Wario needed a doubles partner, so we made Waluigi. Perhaps in Double Dash you could argue this pushed him over the edge too. But from that point forward I would say very deliberate regard was dealt toward the character to include him in all these games, frankly even more than someone like Daisy who can much more easily be built over Peach's model.

As we've been made painfully aware, this doesn't mean his role transcends this special attention in these spinoff and party games. But I do think it lends more credibility to Waluigi as an intentional character than being filler, and arguably has been treated with greater attention to detail as of late than he ever has been before. I mean, clearly someone had a lot of fun designing this.


View attachment 397527

Could always do what Mario Kart 7 did to work around the extra effort Waluigi required

 

[Kirbeh]

Could always do what Mario Kart 7 did to work around the extra effort Waluigi required

Okay, but if we do that, I want King Kaliente this time.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Could always do what Mario Kart 7 did to work around the extra effort Waluigi required

Mario Kart 7 is hilarious from this lens since it'd be like "Waluigi is too hard, let's add Wiggler."

To be clear, I don't think this is what went down, I just think it's a funny hypothetical.

 

[maf91186]

I don't want Ult DX, but backwards compatibility doesn't stop ports from happening.

I just don't get why someone would want a port and then want DLC for that port, do you really want to pay $90 for more content rather than just $30?

Yes. I want as much content as possible on the physical cartridge. Anything left as dlc is left to disappear

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yes. I want as much content as possible on the physical cartridge. Anything left as dlc is left to disappear

I would be perfectly fine with a cartridge that bundles the base game+DLC we already have for new buyers, I just don't think people who already own SSBU should be forced to pay $60 again in order to buy a third pass for the game. Essentially, that's paying $90 for something you should only be paying $30 for.

 

[maf91186]

I would be perfectly fine with a cartridge that bundles the base game+DLC we already have for new buyers, I just don't think people who already own SSBU should be forced to pay $60 again in order to buy a third pass for the game. Essentially, that's paying $90 for something you should only be paying $30 for.

Fair. Maybe make the dlc for both so you can pick your preferred path?

 

[superprincess]

Hopefully a SSBU bundle never happens. Would be a slap in the face considering some of us paid 120€ for this content.

A port isn't happening for sure, which is very exciting! Bring on the cuts

 

[Guynamednelson]

Would be a slap in the face considering some of us paid 120€ for this content.

By that logic games should never drop in price.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hopefully a SSBU bundle never happens. Would be a slap in the face considering some of us paid 120€ for this content

A bundle is the best possible thing for game preservation.

 

[HyperSomari64]

ignore this

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I'd just prefer as many veterans returning as possible at this point, if not all of them, but the latter idea doesn't seem feasible or probable to me at this point. If nothing else, I doubt Sakurai and the devs want to go through the whole process of bringing every character back again, for the very next game in the series, much less now that they would have several more new characters to bring back as well were that the case. I'd rather the devs not overwork themselves to exhaustion than get back every character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'd just prefer as many veterans returning as possible at this point, if not all of them, but the latter idea doesn't seem feasible or probable to me at this point. If nothing else, I doubt Sakurai and the devs want to go through the whole process of bringing every character back again, for the very next game in the series, much less now that they would have several more new characters to bring back as well were that the case. I'd rather the devs not overwork themselves to exhaustion than get back every character.

Part of the reason why EiH would've taken as much resources away from newcomers as it did is because they ensured none of the veterans who were already in Smash 4 felt like carbon copies of their S4 selves. It was even more dedicated to refreshing all those veterans than 4 was, which still had a lot of old Brawl animations even when it shouldn't have like Bowser and Yoshi supposedly having all their animations redone so they'd stand upright (spoilers: they didn't until SSBU)

So alongside licensing issues the biggest hurdle would be whether or not they feel like all the veterans' portrayals are already perfect. That, and how much they'd want the next Smash to make use of the Switch 2's more powerful hardware, but given that you'd barely be able to see how much more detailed character models with higher polycounts than Pyra are outside victory screens, I think they should be using its hardware for things other than more detailed character models, like fixing the input delay and seeing if it's strong enough to handle rollback netcode in 4-player matches.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It's shocking to me that we've had the Switch 2 leaked several times and we still don't have any game leaks for it.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

It's shocking to me that we've had the Switch 2 leaked several times and we still don't have any game leaks for it.

Didn’t that also happen with the Switch 1 to a lesser extent?

 

[Ivander]

It's shocking to me that we've had the Switch 2 leaked several times and we still don't have any game leaks for it.

Imagine seeing the possibility of getting a Switch 2 on the black market and some sucker ends up paying all of their life savings just to get the bragging rights of getting a Switch 2 before it's launch date....only for a freak Windows '98 accident to happen before the Switch 2 reveal causing every Switch 2 game and the hardware they were made on to simultaneously combust and evaporate, leaving you with a console with no upcoming games.
---
That aside, seeing all the stuff about the Switch 2 is really making me question and impatient for when the Switch 2 will reveal, cause man, I just want to see it and it's games already before there ends up a leak that spoils everything.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Imagine seeing the possibility of getting a Switch 2 on the black market and some sucker ends up paying all of their life savings just to get the bragging rights of getting a Switch 2 before it's launch date....only for a freak Windows '98 accident to happen before the Switch 2 reveal causing every Switch 2 game and the hardware they were made on to simultaneously combust and evaporate, leaving you with a console with no upcoming games.
---
That aside, seeing all the stuff about the Switch 2 is really making me question and impatient for when the Switch 2 will reveal, cause man, I just want to see it and it's games already before there ends up a leak that spoils everything.

Saw something earlier about the Switch 2 apparently accidentally getting an Amazon listing.

Definitely hoping we hear something sooner rather than later with all the leaks lol

 

[superprincess]

By that logic games should never drop in price.

Nintendo doesn't tend to do that. Most big Switch games are still at their launch price.

A bundle is the best possible thing for game preservation.

Nintendo doesn't seem to care about that. SSB4 didn't have a bundle either, and with the 3DS/Wii U eshops closing, those characters are technically lost media now for anyone who didn't buy them.

 

[dream1ng]

It's shocking to me that we've had the Switch 2 leaked several times and we still don't have any game leaks for it.

Big Switch 2 game leak:

Spoiler: Big Spoilers!

Spoiler: For real, spoilers!

Spoiler: Turn back now!

Spoiler: Don't say I didn't warn you...

Minecraft
Fortnite

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

It's shocking to me that we've had the Switch 2 leaked several times and we still don't have any game leaks for it.

I mean does Yooka-Replaylee count? Since they said it was coming to "Nintendo" rather than the Switch itself and all lol

I know it was an official announcement but still lol

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Big Switch 2 game leak:

Spoiler: Big Spoilers!

Spoiler: For real, spoilers!

Spoiler: Turn back now!

Spoiler: Don't say I didn't warn you...

Minecraft
Fortnite

Spoiler: Another huuuuge spoiler!

And at least three ports of Sonic 2. You can't forget those.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Nintendo doesn't tend to do that. Most big Switch games are still at their launch price.

Nintendo doesn't seem to care about that. SSB4 didn't have a bundle either, and with the 3DS/Wii U eshops closing, those characters are technically lost media now for anyone who didn't buy them.

That doesn't mean those are good things.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Guybrush would be hilarious for me and like six other people

As long as he comes with at least one Maniac Mansion spirit, he has my full support.

Because reasons.

 

[superprincess]

That doesn't mean those are good things.

Did I say they were?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Hopefully a SSBU bundle never happens. Would be a slap in the face considering some of us paid 120€ for this content.

What kind of *****y attitude is that?

It is also a slap in the face every time a game goes on sale that you paid full price for?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

It's shocking to me that we've had the Switch 2 leaked several times and we still don't have any game leaks for it.

Nintendo Switch 2 has no games

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's shocking to me that we've had the Switch 2 leaked several times and we still don't have any game leaks for it.

I guess Nintendo would rather keep that under lock and key. Makes you wonder what exactly they have planned for launch...

 

[Laniv]

Nintendo Switch 2 has no games

"Now you know how it feels!"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Spoiler: Another huuuuge spoiler!

And at least three ports of Sonic 2. You can't forget those.

Spoiler: MORE SPOILERS INCOMING!!!11!!1!1!!!

Also the Skyrim port.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Spoiler: MORE SPOILERS INCOMING!!!11!!1!1!!!

Also the Skyrim port.

Todd, you crazy madman, you've done it again!!

 

[ninjahmos]

Todd, you crazy madman, you've done it again!!

Obligatory text

 

[Diddy Kong]

Regarding Waluigi, as he's the hot topic now, I can see him making the roster. Easily. But just as easily see him miss it too.

I mean, competition for Mario newcomers is always huge. However I do think Waluigi is the nr.1 prospect for being the next inclusion. He has the fan demand to back it up.

Curious to see if the fan demand can make it work. Opened up to him quite a bit, he's probably the most requested first party character now, maybe on par with Dixie and Bandana Dee, but I could see his support bring bigger if only because its way louder.

As for move set potential, I see them going for creative liberty. He's basically THE character for that. I still think he needs to mimick Luigi in some sort of way, like Wario ever so slightly does to Mario. Someone somewhere made an analysis for that ages ago, how even in Smash Wario was kind of designed to be the "anti-Mario".

Anyway he would possibly be a quite quirky and janky character, I could even see his meme status online translate Waluigi into some kind of joke character honestly. I do also think making him some kind of Jigglypuff like Luigi "clone" would work. If it was up to me, I'd definitely try and make him into some type of weird joke inclusion at least. His fans like him because of this, so I'd go all out on the concept. At the very least he'd have a competitive downside by being tall and now all too heavy.

 

[superprincess]

What kind of *****y attitude is that?

It is also a slap in the face every time a game goes on sale that you paid full price for?

Well yes! Charge less in general. Games are overpriced anyway.

maybe on par with Dixie and Bandana Dee

Not really. Waluigi is in one of the best selling games of all time and constantly features in the most known video game franchise of all time. Dixie is the main character in a couple DK games from the 90s and has made one "big" modern appearance, and Waddle Dee is Kirby's P4, basically his Toad, except Kirby is a way smaller franchise.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Not really. Waluigi is in one of the best selling games of all time and constantly features in the most known video game franchise of all time. Dixie is the main character in a couple DK games from the 90s and has made one "big" modern appearance, and Waddle Dee is Kirby's P4, basically his Toad, except Kirby is a way smaller franchise.

Yeah , sales, sure.

But Baby Daisy is also included in these same games as Waluigi. It's not the fact he appears in these games alone. It's his character in these games. Not everyone who plays Mario Kart / Golf / Tennis likes Waluigi. He's a relative minor character considering the likes of Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, DK and Yoshi are also always present.

But you can be very sure that most people who like Donkey Kong Country support Dixie. Or at the very least either Dixie, Funky or Cranky. They're major players after all in their respective franchise.

Waluigi? Not too much. But he's popular of course, he's just not a major character. And that balances things out. At least according to my own logic and findings.

 

[superprincess]

Yeah , sales, sure.

But Baby Daisy is also included in these same games as Waluigi. It's not the fact he appears in these games alone. It's his character in these games. Not everyone who plays Mario Kart / Golf / Tennis likes Waluigi. He's a relative minor character considering the likes of Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, DK and Yoshi are also always present.

But you can be very sure that most people who like Donkey Kong Country support Dixie. Or at the very least either Dixie, Funky or Cranky. They're major players after all in their respective franchise.

Waluigi? Not too much. But he's popular of course, he's just not a major character. And that balances things out. At least according to my own logic and findings.

Yeah but I think most people would recognize Waluigi on a whim anyway. Not to mention his eccentric looks and personality are more of a draw than a female monkey with a ponytail and a generic enemy with a bandana.

Of course those characters have support, but nowhere near the level of Waluigi's.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Not really. Waluigi is in one of the best selling games of all time and constantly features in the most known video game franchise of all time. Dixie is the main character in a couple DK games from the 90s and has made one "big" modern appearance, and Waddle Dee is Kirby's P4, basically his Toad, except Kirby is a way smaller franchise.

This is true, but if we're specifically talking about the Smash fanbase that actively speculate and things like that, it becomes a much smaller number that have very different ideas than a casual audience, and it presumably levels out more.

Waluigi is still almost certainly higher than both of them overall because his presence in Mario games has much larger reach, but I also remember Japanese polls during Ultimate DLC where Bandana Dee ranked second only to Sora in terms of character wants (with Kirby getting no characters since Brawl also being a possible contributing factor), so it definitely makes it a more even playing field than comparing MK8D's 65 million sales to Forgotten Land's 7 million lol