Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[KingofPhantoms]

...Now that I think of it, do you think if they added a Paper Mario partner, they'd keep them papery, or would they give 'em a full 3D model?

The latter has happened before with King Goomba/Goomboss and the Star Spirits from the first Paper Mario game, but both of their 3D debuts were a long time ago, in Mario games themselves rather than crossovers, and, IIRC, none of them have shown up in more than three games at most.

It's entirely possible, but it's also possible that they would want to keep the Paper Mario style and aesthetic for any playable Partner characters like they want to keep the style and aesthetic of Mr. Game and Watch. It would all depend on the developers' vision and what they consider important or most functional or practical for a 3D fighting game if any of them are ever taken into consideration.

Personally, I'd like to see them portrayed in 3D, in no small part because I'd like to see most of the Paper Mario Partners in mainline Mario games, but I'd be fine if they remained 2D. I'd just be happy that they got into a Smash game at all.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I think I'd rather have Toadette than Toad.....she isn't happening though.

 

[Laniv]

Okay, ooooone more thing on Toad:

In terms of his competition, Waluigi is Waluigi, Paper Mario has a lot of baggage surrounding him that makes me think he's not too likely, and Geno... I think this is his best (and last) shot, but I think if he makes it, he's not gonna be base game. Chalk it up to Square Enix being Square Enix.

And if people say Sakurai won't let Toad happen... I dunno, then maybe he should step aside for a bit. Goodness knows the series has a lot of stagnation (that extends beyond just Toad) that could fixed with a set of fresh eyes on it.

 

[RodNutTakin]

You sure it's Arle and not Kiryu?

It's about timing.

I saw way more people talking about Arle than they did Kiryu during Ultimate's speculation, to the point where people actually thought she was going to be Challenger Pack 5 because of some real weird stuff going on at the time (mainly SEGA AGES Puyo Puyo 2 getting a sudden release date change around the time the Byleth reveal was almost upon us).

That's not to say that Kiryu speculation was nonexistent, but I never saw any major push, and that was because of the double whammy of the "director doesn't want Kiryu hitting women" comment that shut down people wanting to see him in Tekken, and how Like a Dragon only saw one major Nintendo release/port until quite literally last year (I should clarify that I am referring to this affecting interest from Smash audiences, not hypothetical interest from Smash devs). Contrast that to Puyo Puyo which, until the Apple Arcade exclusive game, has always had at least one version of each major installment hit Nintendo systems since its inception, and already has a degree of closeness to Nintendo thanks to Kirby's Avalanche. That, and the series always felt like the kind of pick that would be right up there with Terry Bogard's inclusion in Ultimate.

Like a Dragon is big, but what use is that when Kiryu's support still seems to be rather grassroots? That does seem to be an important factor when it comes to third-party series (see: Dante getting a whole Mii Costume in response to demand, while Leon and friends only got a Spirit Event, despite RE being unambiguously larger as a Capcom IP than DMC is)

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Goodness knows the series has a lot of stagnation

Standing out would also be an issue since Smash 6 needs something major or memorable because it’s hard to top “Everyone is here”.

This can also be seen in Smash 4 since it’s heavily overshadowed by the other Smash games outside of being the first one in HD (Wii U) and Portability (3DS).

Smash 64 was the first one, Melee has its competitive scene, Brawl had Subspace alongside introducing 3rd party characters and Ultimate has every character from the previous games and it’s also celebration of Smash in general.

 

[Laniv]

Oh please, no one is being a "doomer". We're just discussing a character's chances based on the only precedent we have. It's clear as day that nothing has prevented Toad but Sakurai's disinterest in the character.

Also, way to tell on your own fandom's insecurities, cause nobody mentioned moveset potential right now. I actually think Toad could be quite interesting, a tiny glass canon grappler is a compelling archetype—he could be like a mini Donkey Kong in a way. But if the shoe fits...

If I had to be a little optimistic, I'd say the movie does boost Toad's chances a little bit. He's a... mildly important character in it and is quite active. He also has a few comedic moments that probably boosted his popularity with kids. I could see Nintendo pitching Toad to Sakurai based on mainstream appeal alone. He just wouldn't make the choice himself lol.

You could say the same thing about Dixie Kong, though. Planned for Brawl as a tag team with Diddy, and then seemingly never looked at again. Heck, she's gotten even less than Toad, who at least has a Mii costume. Doesn't stop her fans from discussing her. And that's not even getting into the situation of Bandana Dee, and modern Kirby as a whole.

My point is, I don't think getting skipped over multiple times is a good reason to just give up on a character. Of course, I'm saying this cause I'm an optimistic fool who still wants the likes of Meowth, Tiki and Lyn

I also find it funny that you poke fun at "telling on his fandom's insecurities" considering you got really riled up over someone suggesting that Peach might be considered boring in a hypothetical. But okay lol

Standing out would also be an issue since Smash 6 needs something major or memorable because it’s hard to top “Everyone is here”.

This can also be seen in Smash 4 since it’s heavily overshadowed by the other Smash games outside of being the first one in HD (Wii U) and Portability (3DS).

Smash 64 was the first one, Melee has its competitive scene, Brawl had Subspace alongside introducing 3rd party characters and Ultimate has every character from the previous games and it’s also celebration of Smash in general.

You know, now that you point it out, it's funny that both versions of Smash 4 were the first portable and HD Smash games, and Ultimate just did both at once

 

[Ivander]

Standing out would also be an issue since Smash 6 needs something major or memorable because it’s hard to top “Everyone is here”.

Smash Bros. can still do things that can be just as good as "Everybody is Here." Sure, in terms of a hype thing, Everybody is Here was great for the marketing and hype, but it doesn't mean that the next Smash Bros. will never get something as good as "Everybody is Here" when it's not a high barrier. It's like thinking that it will be hard for future characters to top the likes of Sephiroth, Banjo & Kazooie, Steve, Sora and whatnot, when we still have a lot of hyped up characters still not in Smash Bros, like Dante, Shadow, Master Chief, Shantae, an Undertale character, Crash Bandicoot, and whatnot.
The issue isn't the next Smash Bros. being able to do something major or memorable like Ultimate, because it certainly can. The issue is people telling others and themselves that Smash Ultimate is the absolute limit, and it's not. It may not have Everybody is Here, but there are certainly things that the next Smash Bros can do to get people's attention and favor, like having a much better online or having a very fun singleplayer/Co-op game mode to replay, two things which Smash Ultimate gets criticism for lack of good online and lack of replayability aside from when playing with friends.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Just watched Sonic 3.
Man, Shadow is objectively the best character in fiction.
Shadow 4 Smash
But I also want Tails, Knuckles, Classic Eggman and Jim Carrey Eggman

 

[ninjahmos]

I still think they could give a few characters' movesets a rework. Or if they don't wanna make any major overhauls like that, they could just add in a new major feature or mechanic.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Standing out would also be an issue since Smash 6 needs something major or memorable because it’s hard to top “Everyone is here”.

This can also be seen in Smash 4 since it’s heavily overshadowed by the other Smash games outside of being the first one in HD (Wii U) and Portability (3DS).

Smash 64 was the first one, Melee has its competitive scene, Brawl had Subspace alongside introducing 3rd party characters and Ultimate has every character from the previous games and it’s also celebration of Smash in general.

Here's the thing; I don't actually think a sequel to the Smash series necessarily needs a "huge gimmick" to be "prominent enough" to follow up Ultimate.

I know it's been said a lot, but a "soft reboot" that takes steps to unify characters in a bit more of a singular style (something the series has been gradually getting a little worse at, imo), reworks movesets to be less focused on "feeling like the source material" and generally more on the character at hand (even if that means a slight degree of "source inaccuracy", so long as it brings something fun, it's okay!), and overall takes a fresh look at curating content from across each franchise for the sake of variety rather than representation, it'd be more than enough to bring both new and returning players in.

I think this argument that each Smash game should leave a "legacy" of some kind is... a little flawed? I can't in good conscience say they ought to keep topping themselves with every release. Besides, at this point, I'm pretty sure Smash is big enough on its own to have an immense presence just by being "the next Smash Bros. game". Sure, it'd be nice to see some evolutions on the formula and some new ideas being tried out, but the idea that each game needs to top the last isn't really conducive to that.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I still think they could a few characters' movesets a rework. Or if they don't wanna make any major overhauls like that, they could just add in a new major feature or mechanic.

A less obvious example is Samus whose moveset and attributes are still based on Super Metroid with lot of later games adding new stuff that could be in her moveset.

She doesn’t need a complete rework but she could get some new stuff or even old stuff that isn’t used already.

 

[CannonStreak]

Here's the thing; I don't actually think a sequel to the Smash series necessarily needs a "huge gimmick" to be "prominent enough" to follow up Ultimate.

I know it's been said a lot, but a "soft reboot" that takes steps to unify characters in a bit more of a singular style (something the series has been gradually getting a little worse at, imo), reworks movesets to be less focused on "feeling like the source material" and generally more on the character at hand (even if that means a slight degree of "source inaccuracy", so long as it brings something fun, it's okay!), and overall takes a fresh look at curating content from across each franchise for the sake of variety rather than representation, it'd be more than enough to bring both new and returning players in.

I think this argument that each Smash game should leave a "legacy" of some kind is... a little flawed? I can't in good conscience say they ought to keep topping themselves with every release. Besides, at this point, I'm pretty sure Smash is big enough on its own to have an immense presence just by being "the next Smash Bros. game". Sure, it'd be nice to see some evolutions on the formula and some new ideas being tried out, but the idea that each game needs to top the last isn't really conducive to that.

Very well said. I personally do believe that while it is the same old gameplay every game with some improvements and small twists, the gameplay is so great that I don't even see a need for a gimmick. Plus, new Smash Bros. games don't come out that often, so it is not like the gameplay is already tiring, is it?

 

[Guynamednelson]

She doesn’t need a complete rework but she could get some new stuff or even old stuff that isn’t used already.

She doesn't really need THAT much to feel much better. Case in point, this is all the original Project M did to Samus (SSBU did that Charge Shot change already, and DS already rolls like PM Samus):

And it's still enough for her to be much more fun to play, even without utilizing her beam switching. If that's not enough, PMEX Remix added one aesthetic change to make her truer to the text: Her dash attack has effects added to it to make it look and sound like the Shinespark in ways besides her doing the pose.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I still think they could give a few characters' movesets a rework. Or if they don't wanna make any major overhauls like that, they could just add in a new major feature or mechanic.

Some of the characters in this series have objectively bad designs (Sonic, Ganondorf, Olimar, Luigi) that if they aren't at least touched up upon for the next game, I'll be really disappointed.

 

[Louie G.]

I just want them to reexamine Samus through the lens of the most recent 2D Metroid games. Samus Returns and Dread have paved a pretty strong path forward for the series that feels quite a lot different than Super Metroid these days. The fundamentals are there, and Super Metroid's influence is still undeniable, but Samus feels more nimble and smooth to control and has shed away some of that floatiness.

I recall Sakurai pointing out Samus' floatiness in Smash as one of her more distinct traits, so in that respect I don't have a ton of faith in him undoing that. But making her faster, and allowing her some cool new physical approach tools like the parry and slide could do wonders for making her feel fresh. It's not like we don't already have a number of other floaty zoners picking up that slack if Samus were to graduate from her old design philosophy a little more.

 

[superprincess]

You could say the same thing about Dixie Kong, though. Planned for Brawl as a tag team with Diddy, and then seemingly never looked at again. Heck, she's gotten even less than Toad, who at least has a Mii costume. Doesn't stop her fans from discussing her. And that's not even getting into the situation of Bandana Dee, and modern Kirby as a whole.

My point is, I don't think getting skipped over multiple times is a good reason to just give up on a character. Of course, I'm saying this cause I'm an optimistic fool who still wants the likes of Meowth, Tiki and Lyn

Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee being brought up is funny because they don't have an already assigned role in Smash that's been reinforced through 4 games and 25 years, so they're definitely in a less dire position than Toad. They're still """boring""" picks though, and don't have much brighter futures than Toad in Smash in my opinion. Also, the whole point of my spiel wasn't about how y'all cannot discuss Toad, it was about how his chances are understandably very low for somebody with a realistic outlook. Y'all can still discuss all those characters. Doesn't mean their potential can't be criticized, or that truths about their current situation need to be withheld.

I also find it funny that you poke fun at "telling on his fandom's insecurities" considering you got really riled up over someone suggesting that Peach might be considered boring in a hypothetical. But okay lol

I didn't get riled up, I just don't like the dumb (at worst) and pointless (at best) hypotheticals in this fandom. Connecting Kirby's P4 Waddle Dee to Peach as a roundabout argument to prove he is somehow slept on and super important just isn't productive conversation. And it wasn't even accurate. I'd be just as "riled up" about any other character, but since you made it about Peach.... her being considered boring doesn't faze me, because anyone with at least some knowledge of the series history & keep up with recent events should know that she's a very misunderstood & understated character by the fandom. The opposite of characters like Toad and Waddle Dee, whose potential is greatly overstated, even though I do like them.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Y'all can still discuss all those characters.

Then maybe don't barge in here every time and say "erm actually toad's not happening"? Because that is exactly what you do.

 

[maf91186]

speaking of pigs, I wanna see Professor Chops as an Assist Trophy.
Aside of Classic Ganon, what other porcine folks should be playable?

Never would happen but it would be fun to see him in the game in some aspect

 

[Laniv]

Also, the whole point of my spiel wasn't about how y'all cannot discuss Toad, it was about how his chances are understandably very low for somebody with a realistic outlook. Y'all can still discuss all those characters. Doesn't mean their potential can't be criticized, or that truths about their current situation need to be withheld.

Half the time you post here it's about how Toad is absolutely never gonna happen ever because he's just such a "bland nothing character"

Like imagine if every time someone brought up Waluigi on here, someone else came in and said that he's been an assist trophy for this long so he's obviously never happening. I know you probably don't think that, but my point is that it would get really tiring.

 

[Gengar84]

This is why I don’t really like to focus on discussing who I think is or isn’t likely. I’d rather focus on the positives about what the characters could bring without getting too bogged down debating likelihood. I do try to make some case for why characters I like could potentially be chosen but try to refrain from saying any character definitely isn’t happening (except for Zegram, who only I support).

I think it’s best to keep an open mind, especially since Sakurai has surprised us many times before. A good rule of thumb I tell myself is just because something hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it can’t in the future. I feel like people get too hung up on finding patterns and sticking to them for predictions when those patterns are meant to be broken.

 

[superprincess]

Then maybe don't barge in here every time and say "erm actually toad's not happening"? Because that is exactly what you do.

Well I can say whatever I want actually

Half the time you post here it's about how Toad is absolutely never gonna happen ever because he's just such a "bland nothing character"

Like imagine if every time someone brought up Waluigi on here, someone else came in and said that he's been an assist trophy for this long so he's obviously never happening. I know you probably don't think that, but my point is that it would get really tiring.

That's not true at all. I've mentioned Toad in like 3 recent posts because it's what we're currently discussing. If someone brings up something else that's interesting and worth discussing to me, I'll stop sharing my opinions on Toad and move to the next topic. But that hasn't happened, so...

And I'm not even saying anything that's false or inaccurate so I don't know where all this is coming from.

 

[Jave]

Dixie Kong and Bandana Dee being brought up is funny because they don't have an already assigned role in Smash that's been reinforced through 4 games and 25 years, so they're definitely in a less dire position than Toad. They're still """boring""" picks though, and don't have much brighter futures than Toad in Smash in my opinion. Also, the whole point of my spiel wasn't about how y'all cannot discuss Toad, it was about how his chances are understandably very low for somebody with a realistic outlook. Y'all can still discuss all those characters. Doesn't mean their potential can't be criticized, or that truths about their current situation need to be withheld.


I didn't get riled up, I just don't like the dumb (at worst) and pointless (at best) hypotheticals in this fandom. Connecting Kirby's P4 Waddle Dee to Peach as a roundabout argument to prove he is somehow slept on and super important just isn't productive conversation. And it wasn't even accurate. I'd be just as "riled up" about any other character, but since you made it about Peach.... her being considered boring doesn't faze me, because anyone with at least some knowledge of the series history & keep up with recent events should know that she's a very misunderstood & understated character by the fandom. The opposite of characters like Toad and Waddle Dee, whose potential is greatly overstated, even though I do like them.

I think the problem with your posts isn't the actual points you're making, but the way you express them. A while back I saw you commenting on other people's potential rosters and you said they were "full of boring picks", but here you are now bringing up "realism" and how characters like Toad, Bandana Dee, and Dixie Kong are not happening. It makes me think that you're just trying to be contrarian regardless of what the topic is.

Discussing hypotheticals may not be "productive" discussion in the traditional sense but I feel if there's something that provokes healthy discussion and people are being civil about it then there's no issues with having it. Smash 6 hasn't even been announced yet, so hypotheticals and speculation are literally all we have.

I have nothing against your opinions or the points you are trying to make, I just don't feel this is a discussion you want to have in good faith.

 

[ninjahmos]

This is why I don’t really like to focus on discussing who I think is or isn’t likely. I’d rather focus on the positives about what the characters could bring without getting too bogged down debating likelihood. I do try to make some case for why characters I like could potentially be chosen but try to refrain from saying any character definitely isn’t happening (except for Zegram, who only I support).

I think it’s best to keep an open mind, especially since Sakurai has surprised us many times before. A good rule of thumb I tell myself is just because something hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it can’t in the future. I feel like people get too hung up on finding patterns and sticking to them for predictions when those patterns are meant to be broken.

Well said, Gengar.

 

[Gengar84]

So what does everyone think of the idea of allowing players to make and upload their own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish through an improved Stage Builder feature? I think this could be a really cool way to give players near endless content for side challenges and it could be really fun seeing what the community could create. I think there’s still a ton of untapped potential with the Stage Builder feature, even with just more traditional stages.

 

[CannonStreak]

So what does everyone think of the idea of allowing players to make and upload their own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish through an improved Stage Builder feature? I think this could be a really cool way to give players near endless content for side challenges and it could be really fun seeing what the community could create. I think there’s still a ton of untapped potential with the Stage Builder feature, even with just more traditional stages.

Awesome idea, Gengar! I would be down for something like that completely!

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m not familiar with many SNK characters but Haohmaru looks pretty cool and Smash could use a samurai fighter.

If they were going to do a SamSho character, I think Nakoruru is more likely. She's more of a company mascot than Haohmaru. Also her bird seems perfect for Smash recovery.

You sure it's Arle and not Kiryu?

Kiryu is definitely the frontrunner of non-Sonic Sega characters.

she can represent Captain Toad's moveset more logically (given that she has appeared alongside him) and can canonically jump unlike him, while also having regular Toad's moveset along with her own little tweaks.

The only reason Captain Toad can't jump is because of his huge backpack. That's why Toadette ALSO can't jump in Treasure Tracker. If he takes it off, he's as agile as any other Toad.

 

[ninjahmos]

So what does everyone think of the idea of allowing players to make and upload their own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish through an improved Stage Builder feature? I think this could be a really cool way to give players near endless content for side challenges and it could be really fun seeing what the community could create. I think there’s still a ton of untapped potential with the Stage Builder feature, even with just more traditional stages.

Could go either way.

Half of me feels like that would be cool, while the other half is afraid it might end up like Ultimate's Stage Builder.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is the funny part about it to me because this is clearly the main draw, and probably why Sakurai would be interested in pursuing the character at all, but the very premise of Paper Mario actually being based around paper will alienate his most dedicated supporters.

I'd ultimately be fine with him either way, but taking a premise with such potential to be one of the most visually interesting characters on the roster and then doing nothing with it would be pretty disappointing. It's arguably the scenario that most actively demands that Paper Mario's most superficial gimmick is put on display, since Smash tends to try and exaggerate these unique traits for effect anyway, but then half the community would cry mischaracterization.

The whole paper gimmick is entirely about execution. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door does paper gags like folding Mario into a paper airplane all the time. In fact, I honestly think it does more with the paper gimmick (at least in terms of comedy) than modern Paper Mario. I think the best way to describe the difference between the two is that early Paper Mario is a pop-up book that tells a story while modern Paper Mario is a diorama and everyone in universe is aware of this fact.

And then Super Paper Mario is a video game on Windows XP for some reason. I like the aesthetic, but it is a really bizarre choice.

 

[Gengar84]

Could go either way.

Half of me feels like that would be cool, while the other half is afraid it might end up like Ultimate's Stage Builder.

Ultimate’s Stage Builder is still leagues better than Smash 4’s in my opinion. You could actually make some really cool stages with what limited options they give you. I’m really proud of the Chemical Plant Zone, Central Highway, Bowser’s Castle, Khaos Mountains, Contra III City, TETRIS, and several other stages my brother and I made. Sure, it would have been great if we had more options and the interface was easier to use but it still allows you to make some pretty cool stuff.

 

[Laniv]

A while back I saw you commenting on other people's potential rosters and you said they were "full of boring picks", but here you are now bringing up "realism" and how characters like Toad, Bandana Dee, and Dixie Kong are not happening. It makes me think that you're just trying to be contrarian regardless of what the topic is.

Oh, I get it now. "Realism" goes out the window when it's characters she likes.

 

[CannonStreak]

Oh, I get it now. "Realism" goes out the window when it's characters she likes.

Well, I think she is misusing the word, “realism”. I mean, there is nothing objective about liking or disliking characters for a game like Smash after all. No offense to her, but she seems to mix realism with opinions in a bad way, like she is confusing the two or something.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I just want them to reexamine Samus through the lens of the most recent 2D Metroid games. Samus Returns and Dread have paved a pretty strong path forward for the series that feels quite a lot different than Super Metroid these days. The fundamentals are there, and Super Metroid's influence is still undeniable, but Samus feels more nimble and smooth to control and has shed away some of that floatiness.

I recall Sakurai pointing out Samus' floatiness in Smash as one of her more distinct traits, so in that respect I don't have a ton of faith in him undoing that. But making her faster, and allowing her some cool new physical approach tools like the parry and slide could do wonders for making her feel fresh. It's not like we don't already have a number of other floaty zoners picking up that slack if Samus were to graduate from her old design philosophy a little more.

Honestly, removing Samus's floatiness and keeping Dark Samus the same would make perfect sense for both characters and be a great way to differentiate the two; One is more mobile and has a better disadvantage, but a worse recovery and gets comboed harder because she drops so fast, while the other can get juggled much easier, but has an easier time making it back to ledge, and isn't combo food.

 

[SPEN18]

I missed quite a bit, but to chip in on Toad:

It should be reemphasized that any comments on Sakurai's views on Toad wrt Smash are ultimately speculative. It's a pretty big leap from such speculation to a hard conclusion that Toad isn't happening. Not to re-mention the arguments about how others like Ridley have gotten into subsequent games even in cases where those types of comments did exist. It can be furthermore highlighted that Smash's selection process is extremely competitive, and every choice that has come ahead of a character like Toad has clear lines of explanation which do not involve implicating any particular shortcomings of Toad. In this respect, I'm not inclined to buy into the whole "they haven't happened yet, so they're not ever happening" type of argument; the competition is too stiff, the variables too numerous and subject to change for a statement like that to be justified. While a lot of what we do here is ultimately speculative in nature, we should still be careful of the strength of conclusions drawn from things like guessing the feelings of someone we don't personally know on a particular fictional character.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Initially, I really thought that the female character was Sarah Bryant, but it is interesting that Stella almost resembles her.

Other than that and speaking of Akira, I could see him getting his new outfit from VF6 as his main default and I could see his polygonal look acting as one of his alt costumes.

I'd rather they go this as his default look:

 

[superprincess]

Oh, I get it now. "Realism" goes out the window when it's characters she likes.

You thought you did something with that lol

I like Toad, but I can admit his chances are low. In fact, most of my most wanted characters have low to no chances of making it in. See how easy it is?

And by the way, when I said that some people here had boring picks, I just mean characters that are safe and predictable. Toad may not be a realistic pick, but he is a safe one. It's Toad, the guy appears in every Mario game under the sun and will continue to do so. Other boring picks include "Switch era representatves" that are shoehorned in with no concept of a moveset, just recency bias and vibes.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'll say this about Toad:

He's definitely a popular character in the Mario franchise itself, and a heavily-requested character for Smash. Whether he uses moves from power-ups from his playable appearances in the Mario series or moves from Captain Toad, I'm not sure which route they would take. I'm kind of hoping they do a mix of both if he ever gets in.

Anyway, I'd say his chances are 50/50 at best.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

So what does everyone think of the idea of allowing players to make and upload their own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish through an improved Stage Builder feature? I think this could be a really cool way to give players near endless content for side challenges and it could be really fun seeing what the community could create. I think there’s still a ton of untapped potential with the Stage Builder feature, even with just more traditional stages.

Not even sure why Break the Targets isn’t Ultimate since they could have done more with it instead of being completely absent.

 

[dream1ng]

At this point I don't expect Toad and don't think he's getting in until I actually see him.

He obviously is big enough to get in, I just don't think Sakurai views him with fighter potential. And I don't think he has the demand to spur Sakurai to reevaluate. And I don't think Nintendo is going to tell Sakurai to add Toad. So the only way he gets in is if Sakurai is compelled by some other force to adjust his perspective.

But it hasn't happened yet. And we continue to get Mario characters who Toad "outranks". And Mario has some very highly requested alternative options. So I'm not going to have particularly high expectations.

 

[fogbadge]

Well I can say whatever I want actually

That's not true at all. I've mentioned Toad in like 3 recent posts because it's what we're currently discussing. If someone brings up something else that's interesting and worth discussing to me, I'll stop sharing my opinions on Toad and move to the next topic. But that hasn't happened, so...

And I'm not even saying anything that's false or inaccurate so I don't know where all this is coming from.

when smash 6 is announced, do the entire Toad fandom a favour and stay away from his support thread

So what does everyone think of the idea of allowing players to make and upload their own Break the Targets, Board the Platforms, and Race to the Finish through an improved Stage Builder feature? I think this could be a really cool way to give players near endless content for side challenges and it could be really fun seeing what the community could create. I think there’s still a ton of untapped potential with the Stage Builder feature, even with just more traditional stages.

it's an interesting concept. but I think to many people would use it to make the most vindictive things possible

I missed quite a bit, but to chip in on Toad:

It should be reemphasized that any comments on Sakurai's views on Toad wrt Smash are ultimately speculative. It's a pretty big leap from such speculation to a hard conclusion that Toad isn't happening. Not to re-mention the arguments about how others like Ridley have gotten into subsequent games even in cases where those types of comments did exist. It can be furthermore highlighted that Smash's selection process is extremely competitive, and every choice that has come ahead of a character like Toad has clear lines of explanation which do not involve implicating any particular shortcomings of Toad. In this respect, I'm not inclined to buy into the whole "they haven't happened yet, so they're not ever happening" type of argument; the competition is too stiff, the variables too numerous and subject to change for a statement like that to be justified. While a lot of what we do here is ultimately speculative in nature, we should still be careful of the strength of conclusions drawn from things like guessing the feelings of someone we don't personally know on a particular fictional character.

exactly. ultimately none of us know sakurai personally so none us can really know how he feels about any character. and how many times how we all said something will never happen in smash only for it to happen. we shouldn't deal with absolutes

 

[Jave]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Stage Morph was the most gimmicky, pointless mode ever added which probably took a colossal amount of dev time when it came to testing. If getting rid of it means getting back Melee-style Break the Targets, I would absolutely take it.