Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

It's really tough to say because Fire Emblem can go in so many directions. I'm going to cover Byleth as well because I think he's in a similar boat.

Fire Emblem's individual fighters are quite popular and the series itself is a major, flagship Nintendo IP (even if Engage felt like a misstep commercially). That being said, 6 unique fighters is a lot for any franchise and basically every FE rep that isn't Marth is an outdated promotional character to some extent, so we'll very likely see some cuts.

is guaranteed. is basically the face of Echo Fighters as a concept, so she'll return if echoes do. I largely agree that is too derivative and unimportant in his series to realistically make the base roster. is tied to Roy. has been in the game for a decade without their popularity ever being rehabilitated and Fates is kind of a divisive and arbitrary game to represent Fire Emblem in 2024.

Ike, Robin, and Byleth are all really tough because they have a lot of merit behind their inclusion:

• received the most focus of any Fire Emblem character that wasn't Marth in Ultimate's pre-release, has the longest legacy in Smash, and he's (arguably) the most popular pre-3DS era Fire Emblem character internationally.
• was the first real Avatar in Fire Emblem, represents tomes and the weapon durability mechanic, and his game saved and revolutionized the series.
• is from the best-selling game in the series, represents the weapon triangle and the general idea of strategically employing specialized options in response to certain actions from the enemy, and he's the most popular competitively.

It's tough to prioritize them, but I would roughly say >>, although it's pretty minor.

Marth (and Lucina, if echoes return) and one of Ike, Robin, and Byleth are a guaranteed minimum. Marth/Lucina and two of the beforementioned three is our most likely outcome. All four (plus Lucina) is our ceiling.

Yeah, my prediction for returning Fire Emblem vets are Marth, Lucina, Ike, Robin, and Byleth. I suspect that Roy, Chrom, and Corrin won’t make the cut in the next game. I think your analysis is pretty spot on.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

What character isn't as guaranteed as people think. An example that I could have is Mewtwo since he doesn't have the best track record of staying in the roster.

 

[Gengar84]

What character isn't as guaranteed as people think. An example that I could have is Mewtwo since he doesn't have the best track record of staying in the roster.

I think my most controversial cut on my roster was Jigglypuff. I’d love for her to stay but we may need to start trimming the Pokémon roster a bit if we want newcomers from the series. Jigglypuff has the advantage of being a member of the original 12, which could very well mean she’ll always come back but I don’t think it’s guaranteed. She hasn’t really been promoted as much as the other Pokemon in Smash so I could see it going either way.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

I think my most controversial cut on my roster was Jigglypuff. I’d love for her to stay but we may need to start trimming the Pokémon roster a bit if we want newcomers from the series. Jigglypuff has the advantage of being a member of the original 12, which could very well mean she’ll always come back but I don’t think it’s guaranteed. She hasn’t really been promoted as much as the other Pokemon in Smash so I could see it going either way.

Jigglypuff also had a close call in Brawl but it was added back near the end of development alongside Toon Link and Wolf.

Not every game has their first group of characters in every installment with a notable example being Mario Kart where DKJr stopped really appearing after Super Mario Kart (Tour using its original sprite is an exception). Koopa isn't playable in 3 games despite being there from the start.

 

[fogbadge]

Here’s a related question: How important is the character themselves to you in determining characters you’d like to see in Smash vs just representation of the game they’re from? To me, while both are important, I prioritize the character. For example, I love Tales of Symphonia but Lloyd never really appealed to me much as a character. I’d still be happy to see the game representation with him as a character but I wouldn’t be super hyped. Conversely, I was never able to get very far in Battletoads. I beat the third stage (Turbo Tunnel) once or twice but lost very shortly after in the next level. Still, I think the characters are really cool and I had a lot of fun with the few stages I did play. I definitely had more fun with Tales of Symphonia as a game but the Battletoads are higher on my list.

I think characters should represent themselves rather than their games. There’s nothing wrong with having characterless franchises in the game via stages and the like but trying to slap the powers and things of others tends to feel a bit awkward. Don’t get me wrong I understand that sometimes you have to with characters with limited stuff but when they don’t have those limitations it feels unnecessary

What character isn't as guaranteed as people think. An example that I could have is Mewtwo since he doesn't have the best track record of staying in the roster.

It’s a difficult one to judge really. Especially for veterans. But I do think there are plenty of 3rd party newcomers who have overrated chances

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

DK Jr. is a funny one; Modern DK could just be him grown up, hence the other one not appearing generally anymore. Also, DK at that point played the same role, and being from a different part of the franchise, it makes sense that they would focus more on the normal Super Mario characters over those that are part of the greater franchise. They barely delved into DKC at times too, some taking forever to show up. WarioWare isn't even given anything but, by proxy, Wario himself. Dr. Mario isn't even part of the normal things either(though I don't remember if he showed up in Tour as a costume or something?).

The fact Diddy even got cut says a lot. DK Jr. also gained his own enemy in Stanley the Bugman, whereas DK and Mario are actual rivals in particular. So I can see why they moved on. With DK there, DK Jr. is more like an extra that if they have space, why not. But there's also a lot of new characters who never got used. It seems more like if the timing was better, DK would've been in Super Mario Kart instead.

 

[Gengar84]

It’s still crazy to me that Wart and Goomba haven’t had playable appearances in Mario Kart yet. For Goomba, you could argue that it’s because it doesn’t have hands to steer but Boo doesn’t have feet for the pedal. I’d love to see other Mario 2 characters like Mouser as well. He had a pretty decent role in the cartoon. We don’t need so many versions of the core cast like the babies and Pink Gold Peach. I’d rather see more unique characters.

 

[Will]

View attachment 397126

For his neutral special, Shadow wields a gun.

Shadow gets in Smash, but he’s voiced by John Wick. What’s everyone thinking?

 

[BuckleyTim]

If doomguy gets the nod I'd just hope the classic era would be healthily represented and it wasn't just SLAYER SLAYER SLAYER. Don't get me wrong, I like the modern stuff but classic doom would be the perfect stuff to put in smash aesthetic wise. He can be a Slayer all he wants, but he'll always be a Guy to me.

edit: granted, the mii costume trailer used 2016's version of at dooms gate instead of the original stuff, and from the get-go they paid homage to how dos doom looks so I'm not worried or anything, but eh I'd still be a bit miffed if he was called doom slayer instead of doomguy.

 

[HyperSomari64]

DK Jr. is a funny one; Modern DK could just be him grown up, hence the other one not appearing generally anymore. Also, DK at that point played the same role, and being from a different part of the franchise, it makes sense that they would focus more on the normal Super Mario characters over those that are part of the greater franchise. They barely delved into DKC at times too, some taking forever to show up. WarioWare isn't even given anything but, by proxy, Wario himself. Dr. Mario isn't even part of the normal things either(though I don't remember if he showed up in Tour as a costume or something?).

The fact Diddy even got cut says a lot. DK Jr. also gained his own enemy in Stanley the Bugman, whereas DK and Mario are actual rivals in particular. So I can see why they moved on. With DK there, DK Jr. is more like an extra that if they have space, why not. But there's also a lot of new characters who never got used. It seems more like if the timing was better, DK would've been in Super Mario Kart instead.

Wasn't Cranky his grandpa. Ergo is his grandson.
Or this got retconned for the 1000th time?

 

[Thegameandwatch]

Wasn't Cranky his grandpa. Ergo is his grandson.
Or this got retconned for the 1000th time?

The answer is inconsistent and depends on the game and media.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If doomguy gets the nod I'd just hope the classic era would be healthily represented and it wasn't just SLAYER SLAYER SLAYER. Don't get me wrong, I like the modern stuff but classic doom would be the perfect stuff to put in smash aesthetic wise. He can be a Slayer all he wants, but he'll always be a Guy to me.

edit: granted, the mii costume trailer used 2016's version of at dooms gate instead of the original stuff, and from the get-go they paid homage to how dos doom looks so I'm not worried or anything, but eh I'd still be a bit miffed if he was called doom slayer instead of doomguy.

The problem with that is that Doomguy was never an official name iirc

It was just a name the fans gave in the original trilogy because he was never given one at the time.

Doom Slayer, on the other hand, is an officially given name since 2016 and there really would be no reason to pick any other option because other (official) options straight up don't exist.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Shadow gets in Smash, but he’s voiced by John Wick. What’s everyone thinking?

Bottom text

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If doomguy gets the nod I'd just hope the classic era would be healthily represented and it wasn't just SLAYER SLAYER SLAYER. Don't get me wrong, I like the modern stuff but classic doom would be the perfect stuff to put in smash aesthetic wise. He can be a Slayer all he wants, but he'll always be a Guy to me.

edit: granted, the mii costume trailer used 2016's version of at dooms gate instead of the original stuff, and from the get-go they paid homage to how dos doom looks so I'm not worried or anything, but eh I'd still be a bit miffed if he was called doom slayer instead of doomguy.

Name aside, series that go way back (Mega Man, Street Fighter, Castlevania, etc.) have a huge tendency to be mostly retro callbacks. I wouldn't be surprised if Doom was similar. In fact, I'd expect it to be that way, with the new stuff existing mostly just to fill in holes in the moveset.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, my prediction for returning Fire Emblem vets are Marth, Lucina, Ike, Robin, and Byleth. I suspect that Roy, Chrom, and Corrin won’t make the cut in the next game. I think your analysis is pretty spot on.

I think Chrom will return actually. Roy, I have no real good idea actually. He's a semi clone of Marth, a popular one too. Chrom also got in due to popular demand.

Honestly... I can easily envision every Fire Emblem character returning. Engage and Heroes helped establish the cast we have even more. Corrin is the only odd one out.

However I kinda hope that Lucina and Chrom can be Echoes of each other and have a new moveset. That's still sort of similar to Marth of course.

Marth is literally the only character I'd justify having this many clones for. It works. In a bloated roster I think it's justifiable for Mario and Link too. Mario is guaranteed with Luigi, Dr.Mario is 50/50 for me. Toon Link also seems more likely to stay than to be cut. At least some variation of a smaller Link will be there.

 

[Gengar84]

I think Chrom will return actually. Roy, I have no real good idea actually. He's a semi clone of Marth, a popular one too. Chrom also got in due to popular demand.

Honestly... I can easily envision every Fire Emblem character returning. Engage and Heroes helped establish the cast we have even more. Corrin is the only odd one out.

However I kinda hope that Lucina and Chrom can be Echoes of each other and have a new moveset. That's still sort of similar to Marth of course.

Marth is literally the only character I'd justify having this many clones for. It works. In a bloated roster I think it's justifiable for Mario and Link too. Mario is guaranteed with Luigi, Dr.Mario is 50/50 for me. Toon Link also seems more likely to stay than to be cut. At least some variation of a smaller Link will be there.

I think a lot of that depends on just how scaled down the roster is. If we actually do go back to around 50 characters, I feel like a lot of people are going to be pretty upset that potentially 9 of those 50 are Fire Emblem. With a larger roster closer to Ultimate’s current size, it’s a lot more feasible to keep all of them. I like all three franchises but I don’t think I want Mario, Pokemon, and Fire Emblem to take up half the roster. I feel like all three series would need a few cuts with a smaller roster so they don’t just overtake the rest of the game.