Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[ninjahmos]

RE: Rayman

If Rayman ever gets in, I'd definitely love to hear music from the original trilogy, but I'd also love to hear some music from Rayman M/Rayman Arena. Especially Rayman's Theme

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

This is semi-related, but I'm reminded of when I was going through old Japanese Smash polls, and Sephiroth was like a shockingly high request prior to his reveal. I saw multiple polls from 2019 and 2020 with thousands of votes where he was in the top 5 characters requested. Steve was up there too. It makes me wonder if those requests are part of the reason why Sephiroth got in, I didn't expect there to be such a disparity. Sephiroth obviously had his fans in the West but it seems like he was a much bigger request in the Japanese fanbase, and that that reveal was fulfilling that.

Dante also stood out to me as pretty consistently getting number one or two on a lot of polls, he's definitely a pretty huge request in Japan as well too, maybe even moreso than in the West. Other than that it's pretty similar overall. This video is a pretty good example, turn on subtitles.

Funny thing about the 2021 one? Amogus made the top 4.

 

[MrMcNuts]

RE: Rayman

If Rayman ever gets in, I'd definitely love to hear music from the original trilogy, but I'd also love to hear some music from Rayman M/Rayman Arena. Especially Rayman's Theme

Harmony, Mr.Dark's theme, and Hoodoo Sorcerer are my top 3 most wanted tracks from the trilogy

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have gone through 1,010 votes and have ordered every single character. I now have a top fifty instead of a top thirty. Tomorrow I will work on the visuals and the write up. You're going to learn every character's position. Yes I know, you don't care how well Hongo the Book Spirit from Yoshi Topsy Turvey did (he got eight votes lol), but you're going to get it all soon.

My brain is mush.

There's so many characters. Some positions were very funny.

But I don't ever want people to say more Animal Crossing characters aren't wanted. It's simply not true.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But I don't ever want people to say more Animal Crossing characters aren't wanted. It's simply not true.

Hey Swampy, did you know that Animal Crossing characters ar-

 

[Perkilator]

Hey Swampy, did you know that Animal Crossing characters ar-

-e extremely requested, according to the poll’s results?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do people really not like him? Why not?

He's a whiny wimp in BotW and a brainwashed jerk in TotK.

 

[Ivander]

He's a whiny wimp in BotW and a brainwashed jerk in TotK.

He whines in BotW, but still sticks with you to help you with the Guardian Beast. Nothing wrong with a "sounds cowardly, but still does what must be done to help you" character who develops his courage. And in TotK, the moment he's unbrainwashed, the first thing he wants to do is help Link find Zelda and is 100% on board with helping you unbrainwash his fellow Gorons, which is far from his personality from the previous game and is far from being a jerk. And that's not even counting when in Age of Calamity, he listens to Terrako's summon to save his ancestor Daruk from Fireblight Ganon.
Seriously, people don't give him enough credit and I'd certainly be good with him in Smash Bros, especially if he brought Daruk with him as an alternate character.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Nothing wrong with a "sounds cowardly, but still does what must be done to help you" character who develops his courage.

Sure there is. They're still annoying.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

-e extremely requested, according to the poll’s results?

Really? I guess Tom Nook is one of them. I can imagine him with some moves stolen from Raccoon Mario.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Okay, you know what? This is pretty cool.

It's a collection of some of their old Japanese-only Famicom games. But they actually translated them for the rerelease!

How the hell is Sunsoft putting in more effort than Nintendo?!

 

[fogbadge]

Sephiroth was like a shockingly high request prior to his reveal. I saw multiple polls from 2019 and 2020 with thousands of votes where he was in the top 5 characters requested.

I really don't see how that's shocking

He's got about 30 votes, which isn't a lot, but isn't as bad as someone like Makar or Illia.

aw what, people hate makar now?

 

[Oracle Link]

Many of us used to regurgitate the very same thing about Minecraft, a case where this is arguably far more accurate since Undertale is a strongly character driven game, and I'll confess I personally got proven wrong on that. Hypothetically there are dozens of series that can be done justice without a character, but if that game is full of popular characters then it feels moot to say this. There's a universe where Animal Crossing could still be sustained by stages and assist trophies but I'm much happier being able to play as Isabelle than not.

I'd be satiated with nonplayable Undertale content myself, because I'm not gonna act entitled over any guest characters really. I'd gladly enjoy new remixes of Undertale tracks, a wonderful stage with cameos, a Sans Assist Trophy, but if we were getting all that it's hard not to wonder why we didn't just go all the way. The options are there and people actively want to see it, giving it all this fanfare proves it would be deemed important enough to have around anyway.



Yeah I won't really fight anyone on their personal preferences, but I do want to highlight this point because I don't think it's as big a deal as it's presented to be. These are the kind of character traits that are efficiently and more abstractly represented in a different context. Sans having 1 HP in Undertale translates easily to making him an uber glass cannon character like Mr. Game & Watch. His 1 ATK trait likely translates over to making many of his attacks do multiple rapid hits, the same workaround that is used in his boss fight. If Toby wanted to be a stickler about these specific details then so be it, but I would be surprised if there was a lack of flexibility or understanding in how certain ideas just don't work 1:1 in a fighting game, but can be represented in essence.

Although what I'm recognizing from some of these past messages though, including my own on reflection, is that I don't like that we keep putting (hypothetical) words in Toby's mouth more than what I'm used to seeing in reference to other collaborators. I was just trying to acknowledge the way that the player characters in Undertale are typically treated with less general marketability or crossover appeal compared to established faces like Sans or Papyrus. The Lighteners point is something I had in mind, but Sans has more merchandise than nearly any other character so clearly there isn't all that much reservation about putting him out there specifically. And then working with accuracy to his lazy nonchalant nature is part of the fun of crafting a character-driven moveset around such a distinct personality. That's a perk, in my opinion.

Theres nothing in the game saying sans has 1 HP! Hes described when you check him to have 1 ATK and 1 DEFENSE and being the weakest enemy!
But theres no proof he has 1 hp? When you hit him he takes the geno typical 9999999 Damage!

Also The human is treated diffrently than the lightners so they could be playable!

I have some data to examine this idea.

Yunobo is the least popular Goron character on my poll (meaning Darunia and Daruk did significantly better), but he's not doing so bad I think people would hate him.

He's got about 30 votes, which isn't a lot, but isn't as bad as someone like Makar or Illia.

The fact makar didnt get many votes is sad! after all koroks are pushed hard as zelda mascots right now and makar is the obvious choice because hestu is pretty unorthodox!

Actually Kiddy Kong is a good analogue to Yunobo, disliked for similar reason.


Things may have turned around with Tears of the Kingdom. But in Breath of the wild, Yunobo was kinda just seen as a big useless baby goro

I mean specifically the totk version! In Totk hes the singular goron with the most moveset potential! He has daruks protection, a canonical weapon, a flame roll and could probably pull from gororn link just like all other gorons! Daruk for example is missing the flame roll! And darunia only really has dancing and the non canon iron hammer as moveset potential!

Although yunbo and daruk sharing a roster spot could work minus their bodytypes!

 

[Cyberfire]

Funny thing about the 2021 one? Amogus made the top 4.

Amogus would be hype and I'm not even kidding.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why even think of Yunobo if Sidon and Riju exist ? BoTW Champions? Urbosa and Daruk definitely.

Anyway. Again, the Zelda newcomer should just be Impa. She's popular, always around, notable, been around since the beginning, and has lots to work with. A mainstay in Zelda which lacks mainstay characters outside Impa and Ganon.

I'd like Ganon next after her to be honest.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

I don't really like any of the four champions from BotW, and their descendents are also pretty meh. They're all so tropey...

Losing the Twin Peaks inspiration really hurt Zelda's writing. OoT, L'sA, MM and WW are so far above the other games they almost feel like a different series.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

It's Time!

https://t.co/pVaLikKfTH Is it time to get hyped? The "Switch 2" rumors have been happening for so long its hard to even accept it might finally be time we get to see it.

— PapaGenos (@GenosPapa) September 8, 2024

 

[HyperSomari64]

Okay, you know what? This is pretty cool.

It's a collection of some of their old Japanese-only Famicom games. But they actually translated them for the rerelease!

How the hell is Sunsoft putting in more effort than Nintendo?!

Wish to see a Sunsoft vs. Capcom fighting game.
I did something like that in a Fanon Wiki as a proof-of-Concept

Sunsoft vs. Capcom: Dimension of Fisticuffs

Sunsoft vs. Capcom: Dimension of Fisticuffs is a 2.5D fighting video game developed and published by Capcom, in collaboration with Sun Electronics' video game division, Sunsoft. It is available on Sony PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X/S, Nintendo Switch and PC. It resembles GranBlue Fantasy Versus...

video-game-fanon.fandom.com

 

[fogbadge]

Losing the Twin Peaks inspiration really hurt Zelda's writing.

what?

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Okay, you know what? This is pretty cool.

It's a collection of some of their old Japanese-only Famicom games. But they actually translated them for the rerelease!

How the hell is Sunsoft putting in more effort than Nintendo?!

Question: Which Sunsoft rep would you like in the next Smash Bros.?
These two would not be bad:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

what?

OoT, MM and L'sA were heavily inspired by Twin Peaks. The developers even contacted Mike Frost for writing advices for L'sA.
It has been stated multiple times, and honestly it shows in the games themselves.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I guess it speaks to Sunsoft's success as a publisher of Western games in the 90s that when I hear their name my first thought is Aero the Acrobat.

 

[fogbadge]

OoT, MM and L'sA were heavily inspired by Twin Peaks. The developers even contacted Mike Frost for writing advices for L'sA.
It has been stated multiple times, and honestly it shows in the games themselves.

that’s a claim you’ll have to source

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sound a source myself https://www.theverge.com/24078662/twin-peaks-zelda-links-awakening-influence

Couldn't find anything else. Or to be frank: I didn't bother.

 

[fogbadge]

Sound a source myself https://www.theverge.com/24078662/twin-peaks-zelda-links-awakening-influence

Couldn't find anything else. Or to be frank: I didn't bother.

having read that it sounds like scrimblo was exaggerating

 

[Diddy Kong]

having read that it sounds like scrimblo was exaggerating

I didn't even read lol

 

[fogbadge]

I didn't even read lol

well if the story’s to believed they had one brief meeting with the guy with some advice on world building and that was it. and then all the fans decided it was concrete proof

 

[Louie G.]

Why even think of Yunobo if Sidon and Riju exist ? BoTW Champions? Urbosa and Daruk definitely.

Honestly I’ve been warming up to the idea of Sidon or Riju. As someone less plugged into Zelda in general, I hadn’t given much attention to their consistent roles across both Wild era titles and both seem to be fairly popular in their own right. Sidon in particular, he was everywhere for a while so I knew he was one of the most beloved characters from these recent games.

We don’t have a trident user, or a dual wielding swordie (let alone a scimitar). Been looking into particularly some of the Age of Calamity gameplay and convinced there’s something here worth considering. This might be the sweet spot for that dubious “BOTW era rep” that we like to ponder on sometimes.

I do think these would create more buzz than Rauru, wonder if Swamp’s polling reflects this at all.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I guess it speaks to Sunsoft's success as a publisher of Western games in the 90s that when I hear their name my first thought is Aero the Acrobat.

Well, Aero actually got it's GBA port released in Japan, so that's valid. Even if that's niche as heck.

 

[smashkirby]

Yeah it's high time the "retro character" umbrella for expanded to include SNES, N64, and Game Boy at the very least. Bring in Lip, Muddy Mole, and Lark!

Honestly? I'm a tad surprised. I legit thought the "retro" umbrella had long since expanded to include things up to the N64/Game Boy Color by now.

By the way, truly appreciate the shout-out for Lark (as well as Lip and Muddy) there. :D

So what is your guy's take on retro characters, specifically Takumaru, Excitebiker and Balloon Fighter? I know they were rejected for various reasons but those reasons today may not be solid as they were yesteryear. Takumaru's game is getting a release, besides, we got two ninja characters in the game, I'm really surprised we haven't gotten a samurai character yet.

The same applies of Excitebiker and BF. They're designs are more unique than a standard humanoid. One rides on a bike and the other uses balloons. I think Excitebiker can fight using BMX moves as well as obstacles from their own game to attack, I think Sakurai said the biggest problem they had was involving ramps into their game. Honestly, I think using it as an up B would be good enough.

BF is the hardest, not for moveset wise but rather how to implement that balloon mechanic. Maybe while they have the balloons out they become more floaty with reduced knockback, but if someone pops the balloons they be more receptive to knockback and have a fast fall speed until they return.

Any thoughts? I really hope we get more retro characters. Guys have any prospects of which retros might back it into SSB6?

Of course, I'd love for ANY of Nintendo's retro/obscure/niche characters to join Smash Bros., but in regards to Takamaru, Excitebiker, and Balloon Fighter?

Well, I'd be a bit surprised if Sakurai doesn't at least still think about them from time-to-time when developing a new Smash. Like, we've long since had proof of Sakurai revisiting old ideas and fully implementing them into Smash (Bowser, King Dedede, Sonic, etc.)

By the way, I'd like to give Super Smash Bros. Crusade some real props for giving Balloon Fighter a workable moveset.

Speaking of which, I wonder what their view (as well as Sakurai's view) on Alice from Balloon Kid is like...

You know who I kinda would like to see get in that'd probably be considered WTF picks? Someone like Ryota Hayami (Wave Race), Ricky Winterborn or Akari Hayami (1080°) or even Alexandra Roivas or Pious Augustus (Eternal Darkness)

Ngl, I somehow feel like Ryota, Akari, and Ricky would come off more as WTF picks than Alexandra and Pious Augustus. I mean, a jetski driver and some snowboarders who, as far as we know, have no combat experience?
Not saying that I don't want Alexandra and/or Pious Augustus. I just figure that they at least have the Sanity Effects to work with and Pious IS a Roman gladiator, isn't he?

For what it's worth though, I CAN see Ryota, Akari and Ricky all being given the 'Ice Climbers treatment', and making them a hydromancer and cryomancer, respectively.
Side note here, but I'd also be fine with Kensuke Kimachi as a 1080° rep...

 

[0007]

OoT, MM and L'sA were heavily inspired by Twin Peaks. The developers even contacted Mike Frost for writing advices for L'sA.
It has been stated multiple times, and honestly it shows in the games themselves.

This is only true for Link’s Awakening. There’s absolutely zero evidence that any of that applies to OOT, MM, WW. Remember, there was a large multi year gap of Zelda between LA and OOT with different people working on them. LA was the B team.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Honestly I’ve been warming up to the idea of Sidon or Riju. As someone less plugged into Zelda in general, I hadn’t given much attention to their consistent roles across both Wild era titles and both seem to be fairly popular in their own right. Sidon in particular, he was everywhere for a while so I knew he was one of the most beloved characters from these recent games.

We don’t have a trident user, or a dual wielding swordie (let alone a scimitar). Been looking into particularly some of the Age of Calamity gameplay and convinced there’s something here worth considering. This might be the sweet spot for that dubious “BOTW era rep” that we like to ponder on sometimes.

I do think these would create more buzz than Rauru, wonder if Swamp’s polling reflects this at all.

It absolutely does lol.

 

[0007]

It absolutely does lol.

Can we get a definitive ranking of the 8 Champions/Sages of BotW/TotK? I bet Sidon is no 1, the Gerudos are high, and after that there’s a dropoff. I’d imagine Yunobo and Tulin are low.

 

[DKing]

Question: Which Sunsoft rep would you like in the next Smash Bros.?
These two would not be bad:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

The main character of blaster master

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Can we get a definitive ranking of the 8 Champions/Sages of BotW/TotK? I bet Sidon is no 1, the Gerudos are high, and after that there’s a dropoff. I’d imagine Yunobo and Tulin are low.

You're going to get one in full detail soon, but for now I'll just say that Sidon and Urbosa are in the top ten most wanted Zelda characters overall and Mipha and Revali are in the top twenty.

Riju and Daruk are slightly lower than Rauru so they're doing okay.

Yunobo, Teeba and Tulin are a lot lower. Barring Sidon, the BotW champions are definitely more popular.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The BotW Champions always had FE Three Houses leaders' energy to me; where it feels more likely another Zelda rep will get chosen (and potentially embody their powers) rather than have an individual one be selected.

 

[Perkilator]

As far as the BotW champions go, I always thought Revali would be a cool character as the next best thing to Decidueye (since we know the latter was considered).

 

[Nabbitfan730]

I heard that Twin Peaks is quite popular in Japan inspiring most artists so it isn't too far-fetched but i never understood Zelda being particularly inspired by it

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

This is only true for Link’s Awakening. There’s absolutely zero evidence that any of that applies to OOT, MM, WW. Remember, there was a large multi year gap of Zelda between LA and OOT with different people working on them. LA was the B team.

I think Miyamoto said that it was an inspiration on OoT at the very least:

How David Lynch’s Twin Peaks Influenced The Legend Of Zelda Series

Games both wonderful and strange

www.nintendolife.com

And Majora kinda goes without saying.

On TWW they were already starting to leave behind that kind of storytelling imo, but it still had some of those "suspicious" NPCs Miyamoto and the others talk about in those interviews, and some strong writing in general anyways.
From TP onwards there's pretty much nothing left.

 

[0007]

As far as the BotW champions go, I always thought Revali would be a cool character as the next best thing to Decidueye (since we know the latter was considered).

I unironically think his somewhat similar appearance to Falco might hinder that, plus he's not even the most popular Champion