Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
I'm gonna need a source for this one since you have my curiosity for this. I am curious if Dimitri or Edgelgard were considered before they made it Byleth
I refuse to accept putting Roy back into an echo. He already got some tweaks to make him stand out Luigified here
I don't think you understand what he's suggesting. He wants Roy, with his current decloned moveset, to just gain the echo label. To basically go from fighter #25 to #21ε. That's literally the only difference.
I don't like the idea of Doc as a separate character but people are biased when saying this. It's literally only a suggestion because he's the same person as Mario. If the exact same Dr. Mario moveset was somehow pasted onto another character, like, say, Foreman Spike, people wouldn't advocate for turning him into an echo. The moveset–as in the function of the character–is unique enough, with plenty of distinct attributes and even attacks. The problem is his identity.
Oh I understood him just fine
If Roy isn’t unique enough to be a distinct character, it means Dr. Mario and Isabelle have to be classed as echoes too.
Get off your high horse.
Personally I disagree. I feel like if they insist on keeping the "echo" label, they should limit it to the characters that are practically glorified pallete swaps. Which Doc is far from. When you get past visuals he plays nothing like Mario. He's a full clone but the difference between him and say, Daisy, Dark Pit, Dark Samus, etc. is clear.
Funnily enough I was about to state how I think people might be overestimating AC's chances a bit and I guess I'll just explain myself. The debate around it to me feels like it boils down to "Well it's a top 4 Nintendo franchise now. That means it has to get a newcomer", That's cool man! Zelda says hi.I think a lot of people feel that another Animal Crossing character would play just like Villager and Isabelle, with some minor tweaks. And the thought of three nearly identical characters running around the screen pocketing everything isn’t the most appealing to them.
Which could be a reason why, despite the franchise’s quickly rising star, there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of enthusiasm for a new addition among Smash fans.
Not saying they’re right, just thinking aloud here
He's a lot closer to Ryu than Doc is to Mario, gameplay-wise. He's based on Super SFII Turbo, where most Ryu strategies still applied to him.
As much as I hate certain echo suggestions (hello Black Knight Ike echo), I can at least see the case for Dr. Mario specifically. One of the things Sakurai has been on the record about regarding echo fighters is that they're not balanced against the rest of the roster, but against specifically the character for whom they're an echo fighter.
Pokemon might be different as I could actually see TPC having a greater amount of control, and we actually have the official statement about holding a spot open.
sourcegaming.info
sourcegaming.info
nintendoeverything.com
Agreed. I rarely think this but his MvC self could absolutely be a rough blueprint for Smash.
Zelda has its main three characters, Animal Crossing doesn't. While I think Zelda warrants more representation, as long as Link / Zelda / Ganondorf are accounted for it's pretty much hit on its most consistent bases. Tom Nook is the missing link to Animal Crossing's trifecta - he's pretty much the series' co-mascot alongside Isabelle, a role he fell out of briefly but has promptly regained after New Horizons.
I mean, we've had the conversation plenty of times. I've written a lot about it. If you're not swayed then that's your prerogative but there are so many things you can do with Nook - and frankly, if I can come up with them it would be silly of me to assume Sakurai of all people couldn't.
I agree Ken is more cloney than Doc, and I would choose Ken if only one of the two could be an echo, but my wider point was that neither are glorified pallete swaps and I don't think characters like that should be echos.
Even though it was a total accident, him basically just being better Mario actually was true in Melee. I image that's where a lot of his fans came from; I know him being "Elite Mario" there left a pretty lasting impression on my kid self.Doc is different enough to not be an Echo, and if you change his weight class to meet Mario’s… he’d just be a better Mario, imho.
As a small aside i think it would also be neat if he had an alt skin ala Alph or the hero's where you play as his great grandfather Ryunosuke. The protagonist of the great ace attorney.
High horse? Lmao. I just said that the idea would be bad in execution. It'd either make Pikachu unbalanced or change his whole playstyle, which doesn't need to happen. Also, calling Skull Bash a "lazy reskin" of Green Missile is kinda inaccurate when they debuted in the exact same game lol. In fact, Skull Bash probably came about first considering Pikachu is part of the original 8 and was heavily featured in prerelease material whereas Luigi was a secret character till launch.
I'm not sure how that changes things. Whether Dr. Mario has unique stats or just Mario's stats with modifiers, the result remains the same: his strengths and weaknesses are way too different, to the point where he can't be balanced solely against Mario. His animations may be borrowed from Mario, but his play style and game plan are totally unique. Mario vs Dr. Mario is an even more stark difference than Ryu vs Ken, who a lot of people claim shouldn't count as an echo fighter. So Dr. Mario definitely doesn't fit the bill either.
What I'm saying is that the evidence suggests Doc was balanced around Mario in SPITE of their clear differences. Dr. Mario's internal stats being a copypaste of Mario's with the addition of a preexisting custom parameter set from Smash 4 suggests that instead of fine tuning each and every stat to balance against the roster, they went and hit the "slower stronger Mario" button and were done with it. In other words...not too dissimilar to how echo fighters are balanced, in spite of Doc's clear differences.
I see your point, but I still think the different moves and especially the recovery would necessitate balancing him against the whole roster. He might be the closest in theory to an echo fighter –he even was in the "clone corner" of Smash 4's CSS alongside Lucina and Dark Pit– but he's still very far from them.
That's fair. My main point anyway was him being the closest thing to an echo that isn't, lol.
He's fun to play as in PMEX Remix, but that doesn't mean his official Smash moveset would be the exact same. Both Project M and Smash 4 took making Roy a semi-clone in different directions, for example-PM incorporates more attack animations that Roy has in FE6 (and Eliwood's from FE7), while Smash 4 has him swinging his sword in a reverse grip, something he doesn't do in FE.
In Mario's case, I was thinking of changing his and Luigi's outfits to reflect their appearances in the movie and changing Mario's Final Smash to be based on his and Luigi's beatdown of Bowser with the Super Star at the end of the movie.
Well, the main difference is that the Mario and Sonic movies are their own self-contained things while Advent Children is actually canon to FF7 as a whole.
Good list, I think there are some minor critiques I would make but overall this is a solid selection. Waluigi and B.Dee are certainly up there for fan favorites, a new Pokemon is nigh guaranteed and both Alucard and "Officer Howard" (Legionis) would be fun.
Take a look at a sprite sheet for Roy's Sword of Seals animations from Binding Blade. It's hard to tell even zoomed in, but at the beginning of his attack animation it looks to me like he does indeed hold the sword in reverse grip, prior to lifting it over his head and actually striking.
Mewtwo's portrayal in Smash Bros is based on its depiction in its movie (Lucario, too, if I recall correctly). So there is precedent there.
Oooooh, Toad would work as well.
Smash Wii U and 3DS are the same game. Yes they’re technically different games, but they’re also the same.
Cranky Kong, the OG Donkey Kong and Mario's first rival.
I think I get It now.Smash Wii U and 3DS are the same game. Yes they’re technically different games, but they’re also the same.
It’s like how you’ve got Sonic Colors on the Wii and then Sonic Colors on the DS. They’re different games, but they’re the same game.
But they’re different.
But they’re the same
I do think the Mario Movie really helps the chances of both Toad and Kamek. They each had fairly prominent roles and are both classic fan favorite characters in the series.
