Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Louie G.]

re: Min Min, I think people are vastly underestimating how much sense it makes to bring this character back.

I have a gut feeling that all three of the first party DLC characters (excluding Plant, since that's kind of a special case) may as well return. It's likely that we'll be losing a fair number of other DLC characters for one reason or another, since they're third party, but there's little reason to part ways with the first party newcomers. In general I think most of Ultimate's first party newcomers will come back unless there is heavy competition within their series (Mario, Pokemon).

Many people agree that the next roster will, and probably should, highlight what the previous console generation had to offer. Byleth, Min Min and Pyra / Mythra got us a head start on that which otherwise would not have been feasible. As it currently stands Min Min is the newest IP represented in Smash... that's a very valuable thing to lose. Simply put, if you're going to put characters like Ring Fit Trainee and Officer Howard on your roster there is zero reason that Min Min shouldn't be there with them, period. These two are pretty much in the exact same state of limbo as ARMS is. Not to mention these are some of the last characters the team would have worked on, so (like it or not) these characters could probably be brought in largely unchanged.

I also think we need to start easing up on seniority and past priority as some law of the land. For now I understand, because it's one of the only definitive things we have to point to. But I think continuing to say "this character has been around since Melee / Brawl, they'll get in over x or y" is unsustainable, or will at least make the series very stagnant moving forward. I'm willing to do away with a handful of series staples in favor of new faces, or giving newbies from Smash 4 or Ultimate another chance instead. Cycling out the new faces every game just to make way for the same 30-40 old ones is gonna get stale, and new characters will continue to enter the fray as mainstays. I can't tell you how Sakurai and Co will choose to handle this but I don't think it's a tried and true defense anymore.

 

[Laniv]

So, uh...

Who do you think are the most played characters in the game?

Interesting replies I've been seeing here. Characters like Cloud and Link seem to be the most common answers

Now... Who do you think are the least played characters in the game?

 

[Gengar84]

re: Min Min, I think people are vastly underestimating how much sense it makes to bring this character back.

I have a gut feeling that all three of the first party DLC characters (excluding Plant, since that's kind of a special case) may as well return. It's likely that we'll be losing a fair number of other DLC characters for one reason or another, since they're third party, but there's little reason to part ways with the first party newcomers. In general I think most of Ultimate's first party newcomers will come back unless there is heavy competition within their series (Mario, Pokemon).

Many people agree that the next roster will, and probably should, highlight what the previous console generation had to offer. Byleth, Min Min and Pyra / Mythra got us a head start on that which otherwise would not have been feasible. As it currently stands Min Min is the newest IP represented in Smash... that's a very valuable thing to lose. Simply put, if you're going to put characters like Ring Fit Trainee and Officer Howard on your roster there is zero reason that Min Min shouldn't be there with them, period. These two are pretty much in the exact same state of limbo as ARMS is. Not to mention these are some of the last characters the team would have worked on, so (like it or not) these characters could probably be brought in largely unchanged.

I also think we need to start easing up on seniority and past priority as some law of the land. For now I understand, because it's one of the only definitive things we have to point to. But I think continuing to say "this character has been around since Melee / Brawl, they'll get in over x or y" is unsustainable, or will at least make the series very stagnant moving forward. I'm willing to do away with a handful of series staples in favor of new faces, or giving newbies from Smash 4 or Ultimate another chance instead. Cycling out the new faces every game just to make way for the same 30-40 old ones is gonna get stale, and new characters will continue to enter the fray as mainstays. I can't tell you how Sakurai and Co will choose to handle this but I don't think it's a tried and true defense anymore.

Yeah, you very well could be right. I just don’t think we really have enough to go on to make a confident prediction one way or the other what they’re going to prioritize going forward with the roster. I just don’t think the lack of relevance argument holds much weight for characters like Captain Falcon, Fox and Sheik because Smash itself has kept them relevant over the years. I’m not saying they’re locks or can never be cut, just that I don’t think people really take that point into consideration when suggesting they’re not relevant anymore. Not that I’m seeing anyone advocate for Fox or Captain Falcon’s removal specifically but they kind of fall into a similar category.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So do you guys feel the roster is going to be slightly smaller than Ultimate, slightly bigger, or modified to a Wii U/3DS number?

 

[Perkilator]

So do you guys feel the roster is going to be slightly smaller than Ultimate, slightly bigger, or modified to a Wii U/3DS number?

About a Wii U / 3DS number.

 

[Gengar84]

So do you guys feel the roster is going to be slightly smaller than Ultimate, slightly bigger, or modified to a Wii U/3DS number?

I’m thinking it will be slightly bigger after all the DLC is finished but it could easily go either way. I think it depends how ambitious they are with the other game modes. Putting more resources into a big adventure mode would probably lead to a smaller roster.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

About a Wii U / 3DS number.

This is what I'm feeling if we're gonna get a reboot. The DLC on the other hand....that one will be an interesting factor.

I’m thinking it will be slightly bigger after all the DLC is finished but it could easily go either way. I think it depends how ambitious they are with the other game modes. Putting more resources into a big adventure mode would probably lead to a smaller roster.

I was thinking about mixing up the adventure mode with something Melee did. We haven't had one of those in years

 

[Noipoi]

So do you guys feel the roster is going to be slightly smaller than Ultimate, slightly bigger, or modified to a Wii U/3DS number?

Smaller than Ultimate but bigger than Wii U/3DS at base, perhaps bigger than Ultimate once dlc is wrapped up.

 

[Louie G.]

Yeah, you very well could be right. I just don’t think we really have enough to go on to make a confident prediction one way or the other what they’re going to prioritize going forward with the roster. I just don’t think the lack of relevance argument holds much weight for characters like Captain Falcon, Fox and Sheik because Smash itself has kept them relevant over the years.

Well I think characters sustaining fairly big series presences in Smash, like Captain Falcon / Fox / Ness, are in little danger. Star Fox has three characters already, Mother has two. Captain Falcon is Captain Falcon. Removing these series wholesale would have a massive effect on the game that transcends the roster itself, into significant nonplayable content and so forth. I'm not saying Min Min will take precedent over these characters.

Sheik is where things get debatable, but I'm not advocating one way or the other. It's just that unlike those other characters who serve as the core representative for well fleshed out series, Sheik is of lesser priority than at least three other characters in their series. Certainly someone like Young Link gets removed first, but these circumstances are not as clear cut beyond that. Sheik has traditionally been a high priority returnee but this is an instance where I think things could become fluid.

The bottom line though, is that I'm not talking in extremes or absolutes. I'm just saying prioritizing characters who have been here first over those trying to establish a place for themselves prevents the series from moving forward in a meaningful way. Otherwise we just get this revolving door of newcomers that get cut immediately after they arrive... the bigger the roster gets, the more we have to at least humor the idea that some of these previous mainstays may become lesser priority when push comes to shove. The idea that the next Smash will put strong emphasis on the previous generation of Nintendo games is something I can say with confidence though, because that's how it always works out.

Now... Who do you think are the least played characters in the game?

Highly specialized characters with unorthodox playstyles, particularly those who fall outside of a certain realm of recognizability or beloved status. So even though characters like Steve or Mega Man can be labeled this way, I think too many people feel strongly committed to the character for them to be among the least played faces on the roster.

There are a few exceptions to this. Olimar, maybe Rosalina. These characters are just awkward and difficult for most people despite their wider popularity... which is fine, every fighting game is going to have some oddball, high skill ceiling picks that a select few players will connect with (although that's no excuse not to rework Olimar a bit next time). I think Lucario might place somewhere around here too, I don't see him often and he is just a bit strange to play.

Characters with niche execution who are also a bit less popular on the whole would be Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer. I don't see them played very often and their quirkiness likely works as a barrier from many players choosing to stick with them. I can speak personally that I enjoy playing these characters every so often, because I like them a lot, but I find it hard to commit myself. Those who have learned to optimize these guys are dangerous.

 

[Slime Scholar]

So do you guys feel the roster is going to be slightly smaller than Ultimate, slightly bigger, or modified to a Wii U/3DS number?

It could honestly go either way. It depends on how much other non-fighter content they decide to add, how much they’re able to reuse from Ultimate, if there are any large sweeping gameplay changes that demand retooling or even completely remaking existing fighters.

my only prediction is that we aren’t getting Ultimate Deluxe. Maybe we’ll get a comparable number of fighters by the end of DLC, but I don’t think it will be without cuts.

 

[DKing]

Do you think it would be a good move for smash 6 to have ring fit trainee replace WFT.

 

[Noipoi]

Do you think it would be a good move for smash 6 to have ring fit trainee replace WFT.

Por que no los dos?

If we can have fifteen Fire Emblem characters we can have two “Fit” characters.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Do you think it would be a good move for smash 6 to have ring fit trainee replace WFT.

Nah I want to see a WFT vs RFT rivalry in the game. That'll be fun to watch

It could honestly go either way. It depends on how much other non-fighter content they decide to add, how much they’re able to reuse from Ultimate, if there are any large sweeping gameplay changes that demand retooling or even completely remaking existing fighters.

my only prediction is that we aren’t getting Ultimate Deluxe. Maybe we’ll get a comparable number of fighters by the end of DLC, but I don’t think it will be without cuts.

That's something I've been thinking about myself. Deluxe is possible and can easily import things. But if they do, they need to change a few things up. I haven't heard much about the adventure mode and wonder if they will change it to something new opposed to what we have currently?

 

[SPEN18]

I do think seniority counts for a lot in Smash. It's basically what's kept Jigglypuff present.

Is it, though? If you just mean it only got into Melee, Brawl, etc. because it was a vet, then yeah, I would agree; but if you mean they kept it over Wolf and etc. because it had been in the series for longer...there's not really any evidence of that afaik.
If you look at the characters who got cut when Jigglypuff returned, they pretty much all make sense to be possibly lower than Puff without having to appeal to seniority (excluding Snake and those with technical issues). I mean, even with everything else that's been said on it, at least Jigglypuff is a decently popular Pokémon who was still appearing in the newer games and brings a unique moveset while still being able to take less resources. And even then, Jigglypuff was still a low-priority character in Brawl and almost certainly also 4, so there were still very many newer characters in both games who were getting priority over it despite its seniority.

 

[BritishGuy54]

So do you guys feel the roster is going to be slightly smaller than Ultimate, slightly bigger, or modified to a Wii U/3DS number?

The base game could end up being somewhere between Wii U and Ultimate levels.

 

[DKing]

Among the first party Pichu is the most likely to be cut if they want to squeeze the size of the roster.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Among the first party Pichu is the most likely to be cut if they want to squeeze the size of the roster.

If I had to guess...

Doc, Young Link, Pichu, and Chrom are the more likely cuts. But I could be wrong about these and they all make it in

I'd be upset if someone like Wolf, Mewtwo, or Roy gets cut again

 

[Louie G.]

Do you think it would be a good move for smash 6 to have ring fit trainee replace WFT.

Not really, they wouldn't operate anything like each other.

Wii Fit Trainer is a great addition to the series and represents an important era of Nintendo history, as well as having a funny moveset with distinct character quirks and attributes. Ring Fit Trainee makes all the sense in the world to add after the success of their game, but their moveset involves magic attacks and fiery hair. One's appeal is in the relative mundane, that Wii Fit Trainer is not a character you would expect to fight and ironically fights you using peaceful yoga tactics. The other is a fighter, who has some thematic overlap but is far different in execution.

I'm not so naive to say it's impossible RFT would have an impact on WFT's priority... like, there's enough of a thematic overlap to at least be concerned, but I don't think it should matter. At least personally I don't consider it an even trade at all.

 

[SPEN18]

re: Min Min, I think people are vastly underestimating how much sense it makes to bring this character back.

I have a gut feeling that all three of the first party DLC characters (excluding Plant, since that's kind of a special case) may as well return. It's likely that we'll be losing a fair number of other DLC characters for one reason or another, since they're third party, but there's little reason to part ways with the first party newcomers. In general I think most of Ultimate's first party newcomers will come back unless there is heavy competition within their series (Mario, Pokemon).

Many people agree that the next roster will, and probably should, highlight what the previous console generation had to offer. Byleth, Min Min and Pyra / Mythra got us a head start on that which otherwise would not have been feasible. As it currently stands Min Min is the newest IP represented in Smash... that's a very valuable thing to lose. Simply put, if you're going to put characters like Ring Fit Trainee and Officer Howard on your roster there is zero reason that Min Min shouldn't be there with them, period. These two are pretty much in the exact same state of limbo as ARMS is. Not to mention these are some of the last characters the team would have worked on, so (like it or not) these characters could probably be brought in largely unchanged.

I also think we need to start easing up on seniority and past priority as some law of the land. For now I understand, because it's one of the only definitive things we have to point to. But I think continuing to say "this character has been around since Melee / Brawl, they'll get in over x or y" is unsustainable, or will at least make the series very stagnant moving forward. I'm willing to do away with a handful of series staples in favor of new faces, or giving newbies from Smash 4 or Ultimate another chance instead. Cycling out the new faces every game just to make way for the same 30-40 old ones is gonna get stale, and new characters will continue to enter the fray as mainstays. I can't tell you how Sakurai and Co will choose to handle this but I don't think it's a tried and true defense anymore.

I agree with most of what was said here, but here's two minor points:

(1) I don't think them being added later is really gonna make them easier to return, since at the end of the day they were still specifically made for whatever architecture Ult and the Switch itself were operating under. A new game is going to require everyone to be made "from the ground up," or (if you hate the imprecision of that term) at least adjusted for whatever new system, engine, etc. are put in place.

(2) There probably will still be 30 or more characters that stay for every game, just because I think we literally have about that many that I just don't ever see being cut unless something drastically changes in their situation. But aside from quibbling over the exact numbers, yeah, I agree with the overall point that they're not going to just look exclusively to the most recent additions for the first or only cuts.

 

[fogbadge]

Among the first party Pichu is the most likely to be cut if they want to squeeze the size of the roster.

i would say young link

 

[DKing]

Wii Fit Trainer is a great addition to the series and represents an important era of Nintendo history, as well as having a funny moveset with distinct character quirks and attributes. Ring Fit Trainee makes all the sense in the world to add after the success of their game, but their moveset involves magic attacks and fiery hair. One's appeal is in the relative mundane, that Wii Fit Trainer is not a character you would expect to fight and ironically fights you using peaceful yoga tactics. The other is a fighter, who has some thematic overlap but is far different in execution.

For me personally I was surprised when wi fit trainee was announced
1) I didn't know who it was but I did some research and found that it was a successful games on the wii and was praised by health professionals.
2) The moveset was fun and unique. I really like to use WTF online and try creative spike.
3)Personally if WTF would be cut I can be affected but it would be what it is. Like you said it represented the history of Nintendo in the Wii era that could still save a place in the future of smash bros.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

For me personally I was surprised when wi fit trainee was announced

Everyone was. I'm pretty sure Sakurai's favorite part of Wii Fit Trainer was the fact that no one expected it.

It's a great choice in hindsight. But not one people would have predicted.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I just want to see a sequel to ARMS to begin with.

That alone would also benefit Min Min's already strong chances of returning in the next Smash game.

 

[superprincess]

Interesting replies I've been seeing here. Characters like Cloud and Link seem to be the most common answers

Now... Who do you think are the least played characters in the game?

We already know it's Daisy.

i would say young link

Honestly it's both. They're the only characters in series history who were gone for more than one game.

 

[fogbadge]

We already know it's Daisy.

Honestly it's both. They're the only characters in series history who were gone for more than one game.

Yeah neither seem terribly likely but I figured pichu was still prominent enough in his own series

 

[Louie G.]

Well I think characters sustaining fairly big series presences in Smash, like Captain Falcon / Fox / Ness, are in little danger.

Also I want to elaborate on this because there's something I think everyone forgets when bringing up Captain Falcon as a character that Smash keeps alive.

F-Zero literally is relevant. The series has a notable presence in the best selling Switch game (MK8D, obviously), and F-Zero 99 came out last year. Small game or otherwise, it's attention put on the series and its first new entry in over 15 years. I know nobody seriously contemplates cutting Captain Falcon, but F-Zero is literally getting more attention than Star Fox right now.

Ness is always kind of an interesting case, but the Mother series isn't a non-presence. The whole series is available to play on Switch (well, technically), and the inclusion of each entry on NSO was presented with notable fanfare. Official Mother merchandise is being produced, and it just had an anniversary concert or something. It's flourishing about as much as a complete series can be, without getting full on remakes at least.

That is to say when I specify prioritizing newer faces, it's not at the expense of older faces that aren't getting big AAA releases. These characters and series are still popular and are still getting notable, official acknowledgement in some way or another. Whenever that stops happening is the point where we might want to ask some questions, but otherwise "the next Smash will focus on Switch-era games" isn't antithetical to their inclusion at all. Just figured I would clear that up... I'd be more concerned about full on "retro" characters with minimal content or supplemental additions from series with more than one character, rather than smaller dormant / complete series like F-Zero, Mother, Kid Icarus or even Punch-Out.

 

[ScrubReborn]

Honestly it's both. They're the only characters in series history who were gone for more than one game.

True, but I would agree with fog that Pichu has a very slight edge over Young Link. At least Pichu isn't rendered functionally obsolete by another fighter on the roster. Though of course Pichu being 2nd last doesn't matter much in practice 'cause they'll never cut just one character lol

 

[Louie G.]

True, but I would agree with fog that Pichu has a very slight edge over Young Link. At least Pichu isn't rendered functionally obsolete by another fighter on the roster. Though of course it doesn't matter much in practice 'cause they'll never cut just one character lol

On the flipside, technically there's a chance Young Link would be favored over Toon Link in the scenario that we continue the trend of an alternate Link on the roster. I don't think it's a great chance, but it exists and I think the odds of that happening are greater than that of Pichu coming back.

I don't think there's a strong chance Pichu is favored over any of the existing Pokemon, which may be the series with the most competitive roster space, but I suppose there's always a shot at being a last minute clone addition. Really splitting hairs on this one because I don't expect either of them to return, I can just visualize a more ideal scenario for Young Link than I can Pichu. If Toon Link is 100% returning though, the point is moot.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To note, it's not that any character out-prioritized Mewtwo in 4, it's that it couldn't be finished in time for base due to the data being too old to use.

It was going to be in base otherwise, and nobody was going to be cut for it to be there. Sheik simply had the advantage of the data already being there, and she needed one new move and that... was it. Of course she was easier to make. Besides, her data was also literally ported over from Brawl to start working on... which Mewtwo simply didn't have. We knew that from the 3DS datamine.

As for Young Link, due to the changes in Link, he functionally isn't obsolete anymore. He, Toon Link, and Link all play quite a bit differently. Also, functions movesets-wise isn't why characters get cut in Smash. Young Link's also in an awkward spot anyway, but he also happens to be used to represent the latest Link(from LA Switch) as well, not Toon Link, so we don't know the thought process behind that. He could indeed be treated like the newest iteration to begin with and be kept by that alone(since that would make him relevant). We just don't know in that case. Toon Link has yet to get a new game too, but he also isn't used to represent the latest games either. His relevance is actually lower now.

Not that I think Toon Link is likely to be cut over Young Link either(both returning is reasonably possible, though, due to all three movesets standing out from each other more than ever). It just means things are more shaky than ever. As for Pichu, it definitely had a unique factor in being highly buffed and more fun to play, but still have a silly niche. It's no longer a joke character anymore(and unlike Jigglypuff, it did start properly as intended. Things didn't work out in its favor. Its sole niche was that it actually was really good against Giga Bowser due to it being near impossible for the behemoth to hit it). Despite the buffs, the gimmick it has doesn't... do anything of note other than be silly mechanics-wise. So it's not exactly that notable of a niche. Will it return? Maybe. It probably is the lowest priority clone among the sea of them. It will always have a fair amount of popularity anyway(due to being the mascot of baby Pokemon, but also because it's a pretty popular Pokemon on its own), but we know that's not inherently enough.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

To note, it's not that any character out-prioritized Mewtwo in 4, it's that it couldn't be finished in time for base due to the data being too old to use.

It was going to be in base otherwise, and nobody was going to be cut for it to be there.

Absolutely going to need a source on that one.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Absolutely going to need a source on that one.

Which part? We absolutely know it was impossible for base due to the 50 Smash Facts presentation, where it was stated its data was way too old to use and had to be made from scratch. Of course it couldn't out-prioritize anyone specifically... because they were already in the game before it could be.

If you mean nobody would be cut, fair. Albeit, the original context is Sheik would not be cut for it, which makes sense. She wasn't going anywhere to begin with. Nor is she really in any danger anyway for future games bar a "we're reducing every franchise to 1-2 characters" anyway. I should've clarified that better, so apologies.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Which part? We absolutely know it was impossible for base due to the 50 Smash Facts presentation, where it was stated its data was way too old to use and had to be made from scratch. Of course it couldn't out-prioritize anyone specifically... because they were already in the game before it could be.

If you mean nobody would be cut, fair. Albeit, the original context is Sheik would not be cut for it, which makes sense. She wasn't going anywhere to begin with. Nor is she really in any danger anyway for future games bar a "we're reducing every franchise to 1-2 characters" anyway. I should've clarified that better, so apologies.

The idea of "it was going to be in base".

We have absolutely no source that says Mewtwo would have been part of the base roster.

Furthermore the 50-Facts Extravaganza mentions nothing about the data being too old.

Rather, it was a Famitsu article in September 2014 (before Mewtwo) talking about bringing back characters from Melee in general being more difficult due to the aged data, with no direct mention of Mewtwo specifically for obvious reasons.

 

[Borskaboska]

I suppose I will post my roster speculation. I'm still working on it and occasionally swap characters out, but I like where it is now pretty well. Also, I tried to keep the base roster at max 50 so I had to make some heavy cuts. Echoes aren't included, and i counted pyra mythra as one character.

Returning Veterans:


New characters:
Waluigi (My idea for him is that he would have a shop mechanic like from Mario Party, he earns coins through dealing damage and can use them to buy items. For 100 coins he could buy a Star which would grant him an extra point/stock. Just so that he really FEELS like he's cheating)
Ashley and Red (I like the witch angle of her character, and she can be a spiritual successor to rosalina and luma)
Sol Badguy (Might not be big enough for smash but i just personally like him so he's getting in my list and you can't stop me)
Magalor (While I like Bandana Dee, I don't really see the appeal compared to other kirby reps)
Impa
Guardian (A lot of one off zelda characters get suggested, and while i suppose technically Skull Kid deserves it more I just like the idea of a giant inhuman killing machine being playable. One of its legs would come off at high damage and could be used as an item)
Lyn
Edlegard
NES Remix (A spiritual successor to Mr. Game And Watch, their gimmick would be switching between NES sprites)
Ring Fit (Spiritual successor to Wii Fit)
Suicune (I wanted a quadruped, and Ice Beam is cool)
Serperior (I wanted a grass type since I cut Ivysaur, plus a serpentine character would have sick animations)
Mia (I have not actually played XC3, I have no idea who this person is, I just like her design)
Paper Mario (The newcomer I'm most willing to cut, I just like the animation style. If I were to replace him I'd probably go either Isaac Golden Sun or Ogrepon)
Shadow
Crash Bandicoot (My idea was that Ashley is for the East and Crash would be for the West)

Veterans that are on the short list of being brought back, possibly through DLC:
Diddy, Rob, Metaknight, Ridley, Wolf, Belmonts, Banjo

I didn't bring back any of the fighting game characters because I thought It would be disappointing to not have all of them together again.
I've cut any M-rated characters, because ESRB regulations passed since ultimate's release make me think they are less likely to get in.
Dawg I don;t think squenix is gonna let a character in unless they can get a cut of that dlc money, so Cloud and Hero arent in base.

I tried to be realistic with my picks but this list is also heavily squed towards my preferances. As a sign of good faith I have also cut Robin, who is one of my favorites.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The idea of "it was going to be in base".

We have absolutely no source that says Mewtwo would have been part of the base roster.

Furthermore the 50-Facts Extravaganza mentions nothing about the data being too old.

Rather, it was a Famitsu article in September 2014 (before Mewtwo) talking about bringing back characters from Melee in general being more difficult due to the aged data, with no direct mention of Mewtwo specifically for obvious reasons.

Mewtwo:
Sakurai: Among the veteran fighters who didn’t appear in Smash for 3DS/Wii U, Mewtwo was particularly popular, and it was clear many people wanted him back. Unfortunately, it wasn’t possible to include him in the retail release. Thus, we decided that, if we were to release DLC, Mewtwo would be an effective veteran choice, so we began with him.

Nintendo Dream Interview with Sakurai: Part 2

Sakurai discusses all seven of the DLC characters in Smash for Wii U/3DS.

sourcegaming.info

That's where I got the thought from.

That said, that can be easily interpreted as "wasn't going to be in base, but considered" instead of "was initially planned but deemed impossible". So fair enough~

 

[dream1ng]

That would be Mewtwo. It has been cut before, and wasn't even prioritized for Smash 4's base game. Sheik, despite the fandom's insistence, has never been stated to be a low priority character or an afterthought. Sheik is a staple of the Smash series, whether we like it or not.

I don't think it's going to be Mewtwo. After he was cut he became by far the most popular request, other than possibly Mega Man, even above Ridley and K. Rool, and was brought back as the first DLC on that basis. It's entirely possible he would've been number one on the ballot, above Sora, if he wasn't already known to be returning by then.

The priorities of 2020-whatever and those of 2005 aren't going to be the same. Mewtwo was a low priority character - I don't think he is anymore.

I'd reason there are several other Pokemon that would be cut before he was.

And the next game is going to cut multiple characters that were never previously considered low priority. When the roster is almost 90, the amount of low priority characters increases. Sheik has seniority but is definitely the most expendable original Zelda character, even were you to include Ganondorf.

 

[Louie G.]

I didn't bring back any of the fighting game characters because I thought It would be disappointing to not have all of them together again.

I can promise you it would be much more disappointing if none of them came back. I’m sorry but it’s a really bad excuse. It’s not defensible to be saying this and adding Sol either - I like Sol, I think he’d be a great add, but we’re talking about cutting Ryu here. He was literally in Smash 4 AND in Ultimate base (obviously) without Kazuya and Terry already.

Some really interesting priorities here. Can’t say I understand why Pit isn’t there but Palutena is, but I kind of respect the audacity lol. Cutting Diddy, Meta Knight and Ridley is pretty ridiculous too but honestly I don’t feel like hounding on you for it. I know you’re working under pretty strict slot restrictions. I think I’d be pretty damn upset if ZSS got added back and Ridley didn’t, though. And I love K. Rool but I don’t think it makes a lot of sense to keep him without Diddy.

Mr. Game & Watch and Little Mac are pretty notable losses too. I’d probably trade one of the seven Pokemon to see one of these sole series representatives come back, personally. If it’s a 50 character roster then that’s a lot of space for any single series to be taking… for perspective, that’s technically a smaller roster than Smash 4 base.

 

[dream1ng]

Is it, though? If you just mean it only got into Melee, Brawl, etc. because it was a vet, then yeah, I would agree; but if you mean they kept it over Wolf and etc. because it had been in the series for longer...there's not really any evidence of that afaik.
If you look at the characters who got cut when Jigglypuff returned, they pretty much all make sense to be possibly lower than Puff without having to appeal to seniority (excluding Snake and those with technical issues). I mean, even with everything else that's been said on it, at least Jigglypuff is a decently popular Pokémon who was still appearing in the newer games and brings a unique moveset while still being able to take less resources. And even then, Jigglypuff was still a low-priority character in Brawl and almost certainly also 4, so there were still very many newer characters in both games who were getting priority over it despite its seniority.

I just mean if seniority wasn't a favorable factor for priority, if vets were prioritized simply based on who they were, their non-Smash resume and their stature (and their originality), I don't think Jigglypuff would have perfect attendance.

And yeah other newer characters got priority over Jiggs, who in the past has been a low priority character - but that's only an indictment of the character's case. None of the other O12 have ever been at risk of being cut, apart from Ness, who was going to get a direct replacement. It's not like we would've received Igglybuff in Jigglypuff's absence.

If seniority didn't aid characters, and she was deprived of that boon, it's possible priority would've been cast differently, and she'd have been edged out.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Mewtwo:
Sakurai: Among the veteran fighters who didn’t appear in Smash for 3DS/Wii U, Mewtwo was particularly popular, and it was clear many people wanted him back. Unfortunately, it wasn’t possible to include him in the retail release. Thus, we decided that, if we were to release DLC, Mewtwo would be an effective veteran choice, so we began with him.

Nintendo Dream Interview with Sakurai: Part 2

Sakurai discusses all seven of the DLC characters in Smash for Wii U/3DS.

sourcegaming.info

That's where I got the thought from.

That said, that can be easily interpreted as "wasn't going to be in base, but considered" instead of "was initially planned but deemed impossible". So fair enough~

I definitely feel the idea was considered but not seen as feasible.

Especially since Sakurai is (supposedly) on record for having been thinking on how to feature Mega Mewtwo (Y) during development.

Sakurai Considering Mewtwo for Next Smash Bros. Games - News

www.nintendoworldreport.com

 

[Swamp Sensei]

M Rated characters being omitted.

You have said there were ESRB / CERO changes. Is this true?

Would characters like Snake, Simon, Bayonetta and Joker seriously be in danger of being cut?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Something's helped with Mewtwo is that the character's generally maintained an importance and popularity in the 15 plus years since Brawl's development. Heck the first ever live action Pokémon movie made them a focus of the film, and their status has never really slipped that much even as the generations have gone on.