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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

SMAASH! Puppy

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If it's between Toon Link and Model Link, I think Toon Link wins hands down. Toon Link is a veteran who's been around for quite a while both in Super Smash Bros. and in his home series. Model Link has been in a small remake of a game and the art style is being reused for a similarly small new project (that isn't currently out yet). He just hasn't been around long enough or in a big enough game to actually replace Toon Link yet.

Model Link might be a plausible pick for Smash Gen After Next, but he just isn't for Smash Next Gen IMO.
 

SPEN18

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Although the “timing” isn’t optimal for Toon / Young Link, I think the flipside is how a more classic, green tunic portrayal of the character feels warranted the further Link leans into his modern appearances and tools. I could see us skimping out on a second version of Link, but I also see why it might be especially valuable now with Link likely to maintain his BOTW adjustments and perhaps even get a little bit more. In theory they fulfill a more necessary role now than they did before.

So I’m not sure what to make of it yet but I think I’m more inclined to keep one around. I wouldn’t personally be mad if they did away with both though - I like Toon Link being here but there are plenty more original characters I’d save first.
To be clear, vets haven't seemed to need good timing/relevancy/etc. in order to stick around. Just the timing was something that the small Links had over many other veteran clones before that they don't anymore, and we really haven't had a case until now where neither YL nor TL is active. That and, once again, more characters than ever to retain. So it's reasonable to think the small Link concept could drop in priority relative to what we've seen before (and again, TL barely made Brawl to begin with); that is what I was getting at.
 

Hadokeyblade

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Right, the Japanese VA for Colonel Campbell passed away. That makes sense as a reason why and I can respect it, though it does make me a bit sad at the lost opportunities.

I think the only series I know that eventually broke away from that culture was the Persona series with the Igor voice actor, but that was after over a decade of reusing old voice lines and shoving Igor away whenever a spinoff happened. The only reason I think they cast someone new is because I don't think they could have gotten away with reusing the old lines for the entirety of the Persona 3 Remake. I guess P5PX also hired a new voice actor, but that phone game is just kinda odd to take into account.
Dragon Ball broke away from that because a few of it's original actors passed away during Supers production.
 

TheQuester

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I was thinking about retro characters...which ones do you guys think are the most likely ones?
Ayumi Tachibana maybe? iirc she had a remake (i think?) for the switch.
She could use her suitcase to fight, but might be tricky to make her work.
 
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Louie G.

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I was thinking about retro characters...which ones do you guys think are the most likely ones?
Probably Excitebiker, if I had to say. It's probably the most notable within the echelon of frequently referenced and celebrated arcade / NES titles - akin to Duck Hunt and Punch-Out - not to have representation on the roster. The series is a rarity in continuing past the NES and having sequels and spinoffs all the way up to the Wii era. And more recently the series got a shout in Mario Kart 8 with its own special course.

We've kind of established by now Smash doesn't deliberately choose a "retro" character slot. So in this case this is just a character who I feel has some merit and pull beyond arbitrarily going for a throwback pick. It's a compelling and unique character premise, one that Sakurai has shown interest in, as well as a recognizable classic Nintendo character from a game that Nintendo values greatly.

I feel like the frequent references help keep it in the conversation too - worth mentioning that ROB, despite being a "surprise" character, was popping up more frequently as an easter egg in games like WarioWare and F-Zero GX. And then of course he was also straight up playable in Mario Kart. While I don't know if these specific things influenced Sakurai's choice, I feel like it at least kept the character fresh in his mind and made him confident that people may recognize him. With Excitebiker having a similar resume, as well as a fixture of just about every retro game or service Nintendo has released, I think there's a case to be made.
 
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NintenRob

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You say that as if it's not at all feasible on both ends, but Kirby has a potential route around that size conundrum.

View attachment 391279

Or, you know, they could just shrink them. Kirby's in a position where playable boss characters as fighters could feasibly make sense in a couple of ways. Metroid doesn't entirely get that benefit, and Ridley's workarounds are evidence of that.
"You say that as if it's not all feasible on both ends"

No I didn't, I specifically said you could do it, I questioned why you ever would. Which I stand by. Being in something often doesn't mean you should be playable in Smash. None of the characters mentioned have any particularly noteworthy fanbase, or significant roles in any games. People just like to mention them from time to time because they're in more than one game.
 

Amornal1

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I was thinking about retro characters...which ones do you guys think are the most likely ones?
Ayumi Tachibana maybe? iirc she had a remake (i think?) for the switch.
She could use her suitcase to fight, but might be tricky to make her work.
I think that It could be between takamaru and excitebiker. Two characters referenced in multiple Nintendo games recently.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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"You say that as if it's not all feasible on both ends"

No I didn't, I specifically said you could do it, I questioned why you ever would. Which I stand by. Being in something often doesn't mean you should be playable in Smash. None of the characters mentioned have any particularly noteworthy fanbase, or significant roles in any games. People just like to mention them from time to time because they're in more than one game.
While this is very true and Whispy Woods is incredibly unlikely to ever happen, as well as characters like Kraid...

If he ever did, it would be absolutely hilarious and I'd play as Whispy just for the absurdity of it lmao
 

RileyXY1

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6, not counting Echoes.

I don't think you're getting that many, regardless of whether EiH returns or not.

Because the bigger factor that separates those older games and Ultimate isn't EiH, it's Season Passes. They exist now, and Nintendo wants to sell them.

Sure, they COULD give you 15 base newcomers. Or they can give you 6, and sell you an extra Fighters Pass and a half.
Then basically why even have base game newcomers anymore?
 

dream1ng

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The precise difference between 10 and 12 newcomers we clearly wouldn't know, and I mean 10 is within the +/- of my expectation, albeit on the lowest end. I'm basing this primarily on previous non-EiH Smash games, with some reservation due to having more vets than ever to potentially retain (albeit with a large number of them probably being lower priority than most of the newcomers).
But, regardless, generally I think it's better for them to err on the side of more newcomers than less. Because of, again, the circumstances of (1) needing to offset the fact that there will be subtractions to the roster and (2) needing, frankly, a lot of slots to promote more of their franchises and increase newcomer diversity, hence foster the overall appeal of the new roster.
I agree newcomers are essential, but I think the point of diminishing returns on the commercial effectiveness to character count happens earlier than you. Because even with fewer characters, I don't think this game is going to have any problem selling - it's Smash Bros - and therefore I think the powers at be will decide on the course in which base, which is a fixed price regardless of character count, will receive more newcomers than Ultimate but still towards the smaller end, and focus just as heavily on the subsequent rollout where you'll make more if you offer more. I think the establishing of a permanent Smash team that won't shrink after launch also shows them looking intently at a more ongoing model.

And I wouldn't base estimates on non-EiH Smash games, because those happened in an era either before Smash games were planned to have DLC when they started (or at all), in a time where receiving substantial ongoing updates was less commonplace, especially for Nintendo games.

But also, given how the landscape has changed, people now know that the characters they get in base aren't going to be the end... they know if they buy Smash they're going to get a few more years' worth of additions - so they go into the purchase with a valid expectation of more to come. Even knowing they will have to pay on top of what they've already paid. People didn't buy SF6 thinking this roster is all there's going to be.

I think you may be underselling the importance of extending on existing first party franchises. Like, for example, simply bringing Olimar back or even giving him a Pikmin 4 protag alt is not at all the same in generating and maintaining excitement about Pikmin as, say, introducing a fully brand-new Oatchi moveset. Bringing back Link in his BotW garb is not celebrating and promoting the Era of the Wild like revealing Rauru to show off all the fancy ToTK mechanics would be. Splatoon and Animal Crossing would begin to look horribly underrepresented relative to their current Switch and likely Switch 2 presences if they didn't get anything new. And so on and so on.
I think you may be overselling the importance of Nintendo characters in Smash translating to palpable sales of their series. With your examples of Pikmin and Zelda, those series have remained fairly static since Brawl in terms of fighters, yet flourished as of recently, commercially. Or look at Kirby, who is in a very similar boat.

These also show that, though it happens with the promo series and occasionally with others, Smash is also perfectly content to not give series characters just to give them another character.

Pokemon didn't get a Gen 8 or 9 character, and yet those are two of the highest selling gens. Likewise, Xenoblade's commercial peak was a game that at the time didn't have roster representation.

Fire Emblem got localized in part due to Smash, but then continued to perform worse and worse, despite growing in Smash prominence, only recovering based on a game that wasn't yet represented in the series. Kid Icarus on the 3DS didn't sell any better than Kid Icarus on the NES. I'm sure some of Uprising's sales were owing to Smash, but... I don't think it sold quite what Nintendo was hoping for. Star Fox kept getting characters as the series continued to sell worse title over title.

If you look at these examples, clearly it's the system's install base that matters far more.

Plus if you had even a limited handful of new first-party characters some of the series you mentioned would be likely to expand. It's not going to just be like... Waluigi, Ring Fit and a Pokemon.

In addition to that, the DLC literally can't do them any good unless they successfully sell the base game. The better the base game does, the better the DLC does. Because the people who buy the DLC are a proper subset of those who buy the base game. The number of people who skip out on base initially but then are convinced to pay the price they wouldn't pay before plus more, just to get a few DLC characters they're particularly excited about, is rather few.
But thinking it's going to be hard to sell the base game is kinda ridiculous. That thing will move millions upon millions just by being Smash, having its staple faces, and throwing in some new characters of appeal. People act like Smash is lucky to sell, like if they don't hit x character count the game will bomb... but this is a very mainstream series. The primary indicator of its sales potential is again, the install base of the console over anything else.

I mean, they cut the Pokedex basically in half. And sure, some people were very mad, but... look at the numbers. These huge series aren't as fragile as they're cast around here. The next Mario Kart will undoubtably have much less content at launch than how much MK8D has chalked up over time.

Also, DLC does sell the base game. It's not where the bulk of sales come from, but clearly the goal with a lot of those inclusions is to lure in other fanbases towards Smash. That's why we get a disparate selection of often non-Nintendo-oriented third-parties of global appeal. They're purposefully casting a wide net.
 

Curious Villager

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I mean, as a few others brought up as well, if they keep going further with the BotW/TotK esque modernization of Link going forward and removing him further and further from his classic depiction, I could also see them keeping a second more traditional Link around with the Green Tunic, Hookshot and traditional bombs and everything as to not lose his classic depiction from the Smash games.

You might have been able to make a case for Smash 4 or maybe even as far back as Brawl or Melee that they could have done away with a second Link, but now, especially for the next Smash of which they will most likely keep BotW/TotK Link as the main Link, I don't see why they would get rid of a more traditional Link with the classic green Tunic as the default, traditional items like the Hookshot and everything outside of potential time constraints.
 

pitchfulprocessing

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Fire Emblem got localized in part due to Smash, but then continued to perform worse and worse, despite growing in Smash prominence, only recovering based on a game that wasn't yet represented in the series. Kid Icarus on the 3DS didn't sell any better than Kid Icarus on the NES. I'm sure some of Uprising's sales were owing to Smash, but... I don't think it sold quite what Nintendo was hoping for. Star Fox kept getting characters as the series continued to sell worse title over title.
I've brought this up before but I don't even know if this is true. I've never seen a primary source for it.

Something I've thought about before is that I've never actually seen a source on this. There are multiple interviews stating it was Advance Wars which caused Nintendo to finally give Fire Emblem a full localisation, but I've looked into it and I can't find any primary source stating Melee was a factor. The closest is this section from the UK's Official Nintendo Magazine, but the writer, Thomas East, doesn't appear to have any citation or source for it and doesn't have a role in Nintendo that would let him know it, and the Official Nintendo Magazine isn't approved every word over by Nintendo, evidently lol.

The one thing I can see is that Wikipedia cites Game Informer issue 277 as having a section on Fire Emblem which mentions it, but that issue is out of print and no scans/screenshots of it are available online, so would need to order a used copy just to check what it actually says. The Melee story would make sense, so I don't doubt it could be true, but it would be good to have an actual source for it, I could just be missing something obvious.
I'm not sure there's any tangible example of Smash helping a struggling series. Xenoblade is maybe the closest, but X was already in full swing when Smash 4 came out, and 2 sold well because it was a first year Switch title. I don't think this would affect how Nintendo chooses newcomers too much, because the inclusion of Byleth, ARMS, and XB2 indicates that the higher-ups clearly see Smash as promotion, but I think the idea of Smash saving struggling series is seriously overblown.
 
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Gengar84

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I haven’t actually played the other unrepresented first party NES games but I think Mach Rider is the most interesting conceptually. He’s got a pretty cool design and seems like he could have a really unique moveset. I also tend to prefer characters that canonically fight in their games as Smash characters so I’d rather see him than Excitebiker.
 

Will

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RE: Child Link

Sorry to be curmudgeonly but I just wanna move on from having a child Link in the next Smash game. Even after only Young and Toon Link, I’m just so tired of the concept…I just wanna move on, man…
But I don’t wanna play with Rune Bombs. I wanna be a little guy with annoying aerials and floatier projectiles. :sakbanjo:
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I'm not sure there's any tangible example of Smash helping a struggling series. Xenoblade is maybe the closest, but X was already in full swing when Smash 4 came out, and 2 sold well because it was a first year Switch title. I don't think this would affect how Nintendo chooses newcomers too much, because the inclusion of Byleth, ARMS, and XB2 indicates that the higher-ups clearly see Smash as promotion, but I think the idea of Smash saving struggling series is seriously overblown.
Xenoblade Chronicles is decidedly not an example of this. In fact, Shulk only got in at all because the series was so popular the fans convinced them to localize the entire game. Mother 3 fans haven't been able to accomplish that.

I haven’t actually played the other unrepresented first party NES games but I think Mach Rider is the most interesting conceptually. He’s got a pretty cool design and seems like he could have a really unique moveset. I also tend to prefer characters that canonically fight in their games as Smash characters so I’d rather see him than Excitebiker.
If they play their cards right, they could do both.

But I don’t wanna play with Rune Bombs. I wanna be a little guy with annoying aerials and floatier projectiles. :sakbanjo:
Well it's pretty likely that the Rune Bombs will be gone at least...
 

pitchfulprocessing

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Xenoblade Chronicles is decidedly not an example of this. In fact, Shulk only got in at all because the series was so popular the fans convinced them to localize the entire game. Mother 3 fans haven't been able to accomplish that.
Sakurai mentioned that Shulk was more of a fan request and that he's the type of character they normally wouldn't include, which I imagine is referring to how he's the protagonist of a niche game from a new IP without loads of popularity, so I'm not sure how much of a factor Operation Rainfall was (though obvs I'm sure the fact that the game was actually released in NA helped). I mostly just mean Smash might have possibly helped with series recognition, but like I said, it definitely wasn't a big factor in how popular the series actually became.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I think we'll be seeing less newcomers rather than more not because of diminishing returns (that's not an actual problem and if it was why have DLC?), but because of veterans. This fanbase loves their veterans, and so does the series itself, but with the reduction in scope, they're going to have to make so. many. cuts. And in order to keep most of the important characters, they're gonna have to have less newcomers on the project plan.

Now, they're definitely going to have more than 6, but I'm not expecting 15+.

EDIT: Also, I'm sure they're probably just going to shoot for a "decent number" based upon which picks make the most sense given what can be done. Anything else is a little arbitrary.
 
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Gengar84

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6, not counting Echoes.

I don't think you're getting that many, regardless of whether EiH returns or not.

Because the bigger factor that separates those older games and Ultimate isn't EiH, it's Season Passes. They exist now, and Nintendo wants to sell them.

Sure, they COULD give you 15 base newcomers. Or they can give you 6, and sell you an extra Fighters Pass and a half.
I think you’re missing the point that the game has to give you a reason to spend another $70. If the game is just Ultimate again with 6 new characters, it’s hard to justify that over just sticking to Ultimate. You’re essentially paying $70 for 6 characters, which is pretty excessive. As much as I don’t want cuts, I’d probably rather play a game with some cuts for a larger amount of newcomers. I think we need at least 12 newcomers to keep the value on par with the Fighter’s Pass (which was around $5 per character). It makes it even worse if they actually cut characters and only give us 6 newcomers in return. I feel like those decisions would have to be heavily skewed in my interests for me to be excited to pick it up.
 
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Scrimblo Bimblo

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Some form of small Link is likely as integral to the series as guys like Falco, Ganondorf or even Luigi.

Either Young or Toon Link have appeared in every game since Melee, Toon was one of the first characters revealed for Smash 4, regular Link has changed a lot in the meantime, each iteration of the concept represents a very big chunk of the Zelda series (either Wind Waker and all the toon games, or "just" Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, two of the most beloved games ever).
Look past the character sharing part of his name with regular Link and it's the most important clone character in the game besides Luigi and maybe Ganondorf, with a very distinct gameplay style at this point too.

I like Young more but at least one of them is here to stay.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Some form of small Link is likely as integral to the series as guys like Falco, Ganondorf or even Luigi.

Either Young or Toon Link have appeared in every game since Melee, Toon was one of the first characters revealed for Smash 4, regular Link has changed a lot in the meantime, each iteration of the concept represents a very big chunk of the Zelda series (either Wind Waker and all the toon games, or "just" Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, two of the most beloved games ever).
Look past the character sharing part of his name with regular Link and it's the most important clone character in the game besides Luigi and maybe Ganondorf, with a very distinct gameplay style at this point too.

I like Young more but at least one of them is here to stay.
Also, Sakurai somewhat views Young Link as partially a representation of other games, though it's not just the Trophy either(we see a Younger Link in tons of artwork. Only the original ALTTP is where he looked a lot older, but that was pretty much retconned in the US timeline, as the Oracle games take place after Link's Awakening and ALTTP too, meaning he's actually still pretty young during that time).

So essentially, he's an integral part of one of the biggest games in the franchise. ALTTP is woefully lacking in content otherwise, and it's not much of a caveat either. Also worth noting that Trophy is somewhat more specific to the US version, which could be part of why the US timeline is different too. We have different stories.

That said, Toon Link is its own different situation, but still quite important. Though it does suck they aren't using the artstyle anymore, but it isn't surprising they're trying a new style(whatever style we call it, like Toy or whatever, it does appear to the latest one for the 2D games. After WW, they did use the Toon style too, up until LA Switch, and then... suddenly it's used again? It's, imo, not a coincidence here. It's the new one they're going to very likely use for a while).

I like the adult Link, but he's changed so much that the old playstyle is starting to become lacking. Thus, I agree we need the other style too. And I'm not a fan of some kind of attempt at a partial Echo(which if their stats and moves would be that different, they likely would be treated like Dr. Mario, too many differences to be labeled one) to justify it. It's pointless when we have two characters already there that do have the old style more, while also being quite popular on their own. That, and with Sheik being a blatant case of never being cut anyway(bar a super reduction to the point you can barely have more than 3 characters for some bigger franchises, Mario withstanding), we at least have some OOT representation, so it's not like Young Link returning is needed. Toon Link brings more in that regard(and despite what I said about Link having a cartoony aesthetic since SS, it's still a completely different thing from the actual Toon games).
 
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Gengar84

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So I’ve brought this idea up a few times but I’m curious what everyone here thinks about it or if it’s something that could realistically happen. I’d love to see the Zelda cast use their alt outfit slots for different incarnations of each character. Like Link could have one outfit be his OoT design, another for Twilight Princess, a third from Skyward Sword and so on. The same would apply to Zelda and Ganondorf. The original Hyrule Warriors did something like this and I thought it was really cool. It would also allow everyone to play as their own favorite versions of the characters. I feel like Smash still doesn’t make the best use of the alt outfit concept and have too many basic palate swaps over actual models.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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So I’ve brought this idea up a few times but I’m curious what everyone here thinks about it or if it’s something that could realistically happen. I’d love to see the Zelda cast use their alt outfit slots for different incarnations of each character. Like Link could have one outfit be his OoT design, another for Twilight Princess, a third from Skyward Sword and so on. The same would apply to Zelda and Ganondorf. The original Hyrule Warriors did something like this and I thought it was really cool. It would also allow everyone to play as their own favorite versions of the characters. I feel like Smash still doesn’t make the best use of the alt outfit concept and have too many basic palate swaps over actual models.
While some of this can be chalked up to limited time and resources, Zelda makes a lot of sense this way. Toon Link not having the Conductor outfit is even weirder when we actually know it's meant to be an artstyle, not WW Link. Like, beforehand it's not that hard to read the trophy in Brawl as something else, but the fact ST is listed as one of his games cements it instead. It absolutely has to be an artstyle then.

But yeah, it gets pretty lacking. Though I did like that Tunics in later games also dealt with this, and now have unique factors(TP did a great job with the Magic Armor and Zora Armor, for instance). BOTW/TOTK-like alts for the regular Red and Blue colors is nice. Fierce Deity Link is good too, but we have so many others.

That said, I think the best way is to just allow for 16 alts for some to add some old costumes back. Characters need a minimum of 8 costumes, not a max, nowadays, after all.
 

Slime Scholar

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I’d want a classic Link if they went all-in on the concept. Forget Toon Link and Young Link: use the look he has in the ALBW key art or LA remake cutscenes.
IMG_0572.jpeg

Draw on more than bombs and arrows for his moveset. let him recover with the Roc’s Cape or the Tornado Rod. Let him dash with the Pegasus Boots or pull enemies in with the Gust Jar. There’s so much inspiration to draw from rather than “Melee Link but smaller and faster.”

Obviously this is a lot more work than just treating him like a normal veteran but if I’m being honest, most of the fighters who are stuck with 20+ year old movesets feel very stale and in need of a rework (Mario and Samus come to mind), and I consider that a better use of resources than bringing back low-priority veterans just for the sake of it.
 

Gengar84

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I actually had the most fun playing with Link in Melee. I loved his little tether grab, down throw into up special combo. He kind of feels lacking without the hookshot now. His up special also felt a lot stronger back then too. Ironically, despite being much more of a clone back then, I also enjoyed playing as Ganondorf in Melee more than I do now. It’s probably way too much work to implement any kind of a system that lets us play with classic movesets for the characters so I can learn to live with the changes.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I’d want a classic Link if they went all-in on the concept. Forget Toon Link and Young Link: use the look he has in the ALBW key art or LA remake cutscenes.
View attachment 391322
Draw on more than bombs and arrows for his moveset. let him recover with the Roc’s Cape or the Tornado Rod. Let him dash with the Pegasus Boots or pull enemies in with the Gust Jar. There’s so much inspiration to draw from rather than “Melee Link but smaller and faster.”

Obviously this is a lot more work than just treating him like a normal veteran but if I’m being honest, most of the fighters who are stuck with 20+ year old movesets feel very stale and in need of a rework (Mario and Samus come to mind), and I consider that a better use of resources than bringing back low-priority veterans just for the sake of it.
They actually do use Young Link to represent the Classic Link. He specifically is used to both represent the first LoZ Link for Pac-Man's Route, and the specific Spirit Battle for Link(The Legend of Zelda). This may just be because of the Melee trophy(which is different in Japanese too), but there's also the fact that regular Link is completely different in terms of aesthetics and moveset from previous Links(no Hookshot is one reason, but even since TP Link in Brawl, he no longer represented any of the 2D games. This also made Sheik the sole character to represent the more classic era in terms of designs. Funnily enough).

So it's already a thing. It doesn't mean Young Link is some obvious return, but they cemented him as Classic Link anyway. That's his role now. Toon Link is a subset of games, and Link keeps changing to the newer styles(though it has notably been every 2 games, but even then, the next game might be the first time he gets a major design update instead of waiting one more game. That said, I don't think he's going to change much gameplay-wise. Mostly because it would completely take away from their attempt at trying something new. The Rune Bombs actually change how he plays, leading to a more unique style. There's really no reason to return to form when it, while would help him competitive-wise, goes against the whole point of changing it in the first place).

That said, giving Young Link alternate costumes with new textures to be like this design sounds like a promising way to further represent the Classic style faithfully, while not trying too hard to reinvent the wheel. We have the playstyle. It's just on two different characters(albeit, Toon Link's is far off from Classic Link(SSB, Melee, Brawl, 4)'s style too). But yeah, if they really want to focus on this, just use the one who already represents it and keep both child Links as it would make more sense in this scenario to do so. Three different eras and styles~
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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That said, I think the best way is to just allow for 16 alts for some to add some old costumes back. Characters need a minimum of 8 costumes, not a max, nowadays, after all.
Originally I was thinking you could add 10 alts per character, but that causes problems. Bowser Jr. for example doesn't really have two more characters to add as alts. It'd be like...Koopa Kid from Mario Party and then maybe Baby Bowser, Lakitu, or an Amazing Flyin' Hammer Bro., none of which work all that well. It could also potentially hurt the Octolings as well. They'd already have to dig through all the Splatfests to get 8 more distinct colors, and adding 2 more for them to have to get, and 2 less options for them to pick would make that even harder.

So I guess having extra alts for specific characters is probably the better route then. Characters like Wario and Kazuya do benefit from having more color options for the two major designs they have.
 

Gengar84

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Originally I was thinking you could add 10 alts per character, but that causes problems. Bowser Jr. for example doesn't really have two more characters to add as alts. It'd be like...Koopa Kid from Mario Party and then maybe Baby Bowser, Lakitu, or an Amazing Flyin' Hammer Bro., none of which work all that well. It could also potentially hurt the Octolings as well. They'd already have to dig through all the Splatfests to get 8 more distinct colors, and adding 2 more for them to have to get, and 2 less options for them to pick would make that even harder.

So I guess having extra alts for specific characters is probably the better route then. Characters like Wario and Kazuya do benefit from having more color options for the two major designs they have.
You could always just have alt colors of the existing Koopalings. Like you could have a blue Roy instead of pink. Although I don’t think every character necessarily needs a ton more than they currently have. I’d just like to see the slots expanded for the characters that do have a lot of material to work with. Samus is another great example where she has so many cool suits to choose from that you’d basically never run out of options even with 20+ slots.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I feel like if they were going to remove the hookshot from Link, they should have at least given him something interesting for a grab in return like stasis or magnesis. The basic grab he has now just feels kind of boring in my opinion.
My guess is they wanted to change up his playstyle more, and that having a grab like that wouldn't be much different from his old one. It just might have better range. I would've loved to see it, especially if it functions the same as a grab(but not as a tether option), which means his playstyle wouldn't be changed nearly as much. Cause right now it's a bit too inbetween from an actual overhaul/good take on a BOTW moveset and his old one. Like, even that minor thing would've changed it up.

But either way, he is pretty underutilized. Though I get why; characters getting an overhaul makes them too hard to adjust to. I can't imagine that ever happening till Sakurai is fully no longer with the project, if even then. It's why we lost multiple playstyles to begin with(like when we lost Ivysaur and Squirtle in 4, or Wolf for that matter). Because they aren't functions(something that really needs to be emphasized. Hell, even worse, is that while some could feasibly be copy pasted onto someone, a lot can't; The only two that could feasibly work the same as the previous Pokemon are Bulbasaur and Wartortle, and only because they're almost identical bar minor design changes. Their final forms are hyper different. Hell, it's why Squirtle was chosen over Blastoise, because it can actually move fast within Smash's design style. On the other hand, Black Shadow is the right type of design that could work with Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl type movesets(until Ultimate changed it way too much. That said, he would make for a cool regular clone of Ganondorf if that was the only feasible way to add another F-Zero character. Samurai Goroh would be a better choice, though, imo. It also doesn't help that Black Shadow doesn't actually share Falcon's bodyshape, so he can't actually be an Echo. A regular clone, yes. That said, if Black Shadow's sole difference with Smash attacks but he played nearly the same as the current Ganondorf, that could work, but it would pretty visibly weird with some of the moves, if only cause the Brawl/4 moveset is actually more fitting to Black Shadow respectively).

I do like various clones as ideas, but sadly they still take way too much work to really help build up the roster. That's the same reason why a character having "alternate playstyles" is not really something that can happen. It's the work of an entirely different moveset, and why transformation characters are extremely few and inbetween throughout Smash's history. Or why some moves can be underutilized. F.L.U.D.D. giving you different nozzles temporarily as an actual Special Moveset change sounds great, but it also requires a lot of work. The current version is simple(but also fits Mario's beginner gameplay better, heh). They at least hit it well with Pokemon Trainer in Ultimate, the only case of a Transformation character(at least base game) working right. Pyra/Mythra also work great, but they're also built off of the same moveset, so it's pretty easy to balance.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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You could always just have alt colors of the existing Koopalings. Like you could have a blue Roy instead of pink.
That doesn't work for the idea of 10 per character since that'd make it 16. It would have to be either 2 new alts or two new colors for Bowser Jr. specifically.

Although I don’t think every character necessarily needs a ton more than they currently have. I’d just like to see the slots expanded for the characters that do have a lot of material to work with. Samus is another great example where she has so many cool suits to choose from that you’d basically never run out of options even with 20+ slots.
Yeah, the 8 we have right now is perfectly fine for most characters, and when it isn't it's because they don't want Final Fantasy characters to have color. lol

But yeah, adding more slots to Cloud, Sephiroth, Lucario, Sonic, and Pac-Man probably won't help much.


Oh, and speaking of, I think Steve's alternate costumes are going to change drastically in his next appearance due to the addition of new "default" skins.
From left to right: Sunny, Kai, Makena, Steve, Alex, Zuri, Efe, Ari, Noor.
1718891585393.jpeg
We definitely won't get all of them (if the limit of 8 per character is still there) since there are 9 in total and they're probably not gonna drop Zombie and Enderman. They're also probably going to use Minecraft's art style, which can be seen here if you're interested. Also also, Steve and Alex themselves will look different in the next game, as their clothing (namely their shirts) have been given more dimensionality to them, similarly to what you see in the other characters' models.
 
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HyperSomari64

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everyone please we shouldn't be talking about what Links to cut. we should be talking about adding MORE LINKS!!!

Link, Young, Link, Toon Link, Classic Link, Deku Link, Goron Link, Zora Link, Fierce Deity Link, Bunny Link, Giant Link, Wolf Link, Warriors Link, Four Links, Three Links, Hero's Shade, Linkle, Ravio
Don't forget the most essential one :troll::
 
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Guynamednelson

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It's not where the bulk of sales come from,
Well it obviously can't be, because most people who buy a game...don't buy any DLC for it. Honestly I'd imagine only 10% of people who bought SSBU also bought both passes, and it has nothing to do with how big or small the characters included are. Some people just don't buy DLC period, I have a friend who's all excited about Joker and Sora being in Smash, but he's only been able to play them via PMEX Remix because he's not into DLC at all.
 
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