Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I actually think it's possible that Samus Returns and Dread may take priority as Sakamoto's Metroid titles are seen as the "mainline games", with the Prime series being considered more of its own seperate subseries. Samus has always been based on the latest Sakamoto game at the time (Super in Melee, Zero Mission in Brawl, Other M in Smash 4 and even Ultimate).

Brawl's Samus had a lot of Prime touches in her suit though, iirc.

It was still mostly based on the 2D games but there was Prime detailing. Especially the shoulders.

 

[Dinoman96]

Brawl's Samus had a lot of Prime touches in her suit though, iirc.

It was still mostly based on the 2D games but there was Prime detailing. Especially the shoulders.

Well...

Looks just straight up a 3D version of ZM Samus to me. I guess you could say that Zero Mission itself borrowed some details from Prime.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Well...

Looks just straight up a 3D version of ZM Samus to me. I guess you could say that Zero Mission itself borrowed some details from Prime.

Kind of fitting, given Zero Mission was where the Zero Suit came from.

So they'd probably want the Varia Suit to match.

 

[Arcanir]

Am I the first one to think there's a chance Dread might have missed its shot at being the main Samus design in the next Smash because Prime 4 has a release date now?

I could see it go either way, Prime 2 was more recent than Zero Mission at the time of Brawl, but they still used the latter more as a basis for Samus' (and ZZS') design. They could still go with Dread's despite being less recent by the time the next Smash comes out, but it probably depends on what direction and influence they'll take when designing her

 

[Deleted member]

If Prime 4 comes out around mid 2025 and Smash 6 comes out in late 2026, i'd say it would not be too late for Prime 4 Samus design to make it in, after all we got BOTW Link in Ult.
Sylux is a bit of a diferent matter, he might have missed the boat for base game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This isn't true actually. We can infer this because a smaller Link has been in every game since Melee, but this was never explicitly stated. The reason behind Young Link's inclusion in Melee was because "people felt like Link (in Smash 64) was too slow". So the team made a faster but weaker Link to combat that. If Sakurai still values "faster Link" as a concept worth including, then we'll surely see Toon Link sticking around. Yes, Toon Link. I believe Young Link was only brought back because of EiH, just like Pichu.

Now I remember. I think that was part of a fake leak a long time back, that talked about Melee(and something about Wario being a clone). My bad on that. Though interestingly during the Wii U reveal, the concept was acknowledge somewhat.

"During the official unveiling of the Wii U at E3 2011, then Nintendo president Satoru Iwata remarked that a new game in the Super Smash Bros. series would be made for the system. No further information was provided at this time since the game would not enter production until sometime after October 2011, after the completion of Sakurai's other project, Kid Icarus: Uprising.[4] He had stated, in response to a fan asking him about whether a "child Link" would be in the game, that he had not at the time decided on which characters would appear. However, he had also said that he 'can't say that it's entirely out of the realm of possibility that some Capcom character could appear in the next Smash Bros.'"

So that's neat. But yeah, I really don't remember where I read that, but I know it was said somewhere. Likely a fake leak as I said, but it was definitely written on something. Not calling it factual either, cause I am sure it's not. Just that somebody wrote that down. (Hilariously, I still see where this was said... on Smashboards. But I legitimately don't remember the source for that claim. Though I'll repeat that I don't think it was a factual statement either).

Eh, I think it's the opposite. Veteran Popularity via the Smash Poll caused EIH to be remotely plausible. That said, we do know that Veterans are actually highly popular anyway. Cuts are not exactly popular in Smash overall(just many accept them as not being the biggest deal in the world).

I won't go beyond that. Agree to disagree, etc.

BTW, Curious Villager : I found you also claiming that(albeit a lonnnnnnnng time ago, during 3DS/Wii U speculation). Do you remember where Sakurai apparently said a Child Link was important??

 

[DarthEnderX]

You know damn well what they meant by "final update"; the game wouldn't get any more fighters, stages, or balance patches. Spirits (literally PNGs...) don't require the team to reassemble.

PNGs with bespoke event enounters tied to them.

And I would have considered additional balance patches more likely than additional Spirits.

Trust me, he does. His dream roster is only EIH on a surface-level standpoint, it's not Every Function Is Here (IE: No ZSS, so that playstyle is gone).

Are you talking about me?

checks his Smash 6 roster

ZSS is on there.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Most I found was a translation on Young Link's character page for Melee stating

-Link's creator sees Young Link's story as the "correct" path compared to adult Link's.

-Sakurai wanted to add Young Link because (at the time) there were only two or three games where Link was an "adult".
This is probably where the idea that "Sakurai finds a child Link important" comes from. Especially with this detail in his Trophy:
"Link's younger incarnation is often considered to be the true Link: he was a young boy in the very first Legend of Zelda game, and he has appeared as a youth in most of the subsequent games."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Most I found was a translation on Young Link's character page for Melee stating

-Link's creator sees Young Link's story as the "correct" path compared to adult Link's.

-Sakurai wanted to add Young Link because (at the time) there were only two or three games where Link was an "adult".
This is probably where the idea that "Sakurai finds a child Link important" comes from. Especially with this detail in his Trophy:
"Link's younger incarnation is often considered to be the true Link: he was a young boy in the very first Legend of Zelda game, and he has appeared as a youth in most of the subsequent games."

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. It's just a decent interpretation of the statement. Not that it's accurate, but it's not an unbelievable conclusion.

...I've seen worse conclusions, lol.

 

[fogbadge]

Most I found was a translation on Young Link's character page for Melee stating

-Link's creator sees Young Link's story as the "correct" path compared to adult Link's.

-Sakurai wanted to add Young Link because (at the time) there were only two or three games where Link was an "adult".
This is probably where the idea that "Sakurai finds a child Link important" comes from. Especially with this detail in his Trophy:
"Link's younger incarnation is often considered to be the true Link: he was a young boy in the very first Legend of Zelda game, and he has appeared as a youth in most of the subsequent games."

at the time there was one game

 

[DarthEnderX]

Did you guys notice Nintendo gave both Peach and Zelda their own games this year where they both basically get their own Lumas?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. It's just a decent interpretation of the statement. Not that it's accurate, but it's not an unbelievable conclusion.

...I've seen worse conclusions, lol.

There's also this:

In the previous game, Link was good in battle, but people would say he had negatives, such as “he’s slow” and “he can’t jump very far.”


(He’s got a lot of good points too, though, so having some negatives is obvious)


…so, if I made a Link that was faster, but made his attacks weaker, which Link would you prefer? I chose to develop and balance Young Link from this perspective.

Link: https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/15/news-flash-super-smash-bros-young-link/

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

at the time there was one game

You'll have to talk it up with Sakurai.

 

[Gengar84]

Did you guys notice Nintendo gave both Peach and Zelda their own games this year where they both basically get their own Lumas?

Yeah, that is pretty interesting. As far as the new Zelda game goes, I wasn’t terribly excited about the idea when Arlo predicted a new 2D Zelda for the Direct in the style of the last game. I don’t particularly care for the whole toy aesthetic. After seeing the Direct, it king’s of won me over though. Finally being able to control Zelda in an adventure game is really cool and I love the idea of being able to summon enemies and have them fight for you. Still don’t know if I’ll end up getting it since there are so many games to choose from but it looked fun at least.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

at the time there was one game

Zelda II and OOT were the sole Adult games(ignoring CD-i, anyway).

ALTTP and LA's normal style is the same overall as Zelda 1(though with more graphical updates). That's what it more refers to. Though this does make it clear he doesn't see the official art to mean "Adult Link" in those cases in order for the statement to make sense. Also, technically speaking, he's not an adult in any of those games either, as he's never 18 at the time. So it can make sense why he treats "Young" like that. Also, he is younger in Zelda 1 by proxy.

Some confusion also exists; he is the same Link in Link's Awakening, which takes place directly after ALTTP. ...He looks outright younger. Though it could be part of the Dream World and simpler sprite. It does apply better now with ALBW and the Oracle Games, where he's clearly a Kid too(note that ALBW is a different Link, though, but it's more a "child Link"). So ALTTP's artwork at that point is basically somewhat "outdated" with the official statements. That said, the Oracle games are not connected in Japan either. They are a US-only timeline thing. ...The remake of Link's Awakening also kind of further cements his age, leaving one game with an odd design at best. It's a bit justified since ALTTP wasn't connected to LA initially and that was retconned in. Sakurai's view is different, though.

There's also this:

Link: https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/15/news-flash-super-smash-bros-young-link/

Sorry, should've replied to that. I was aware when both of you said that. It had nothing to do with my confusion, heh.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So I guess in reality it's a more multi-faceted deal (which admittedly is usually the case).

• Young Link was seen as more important at the time.
• Sakurai wanted to explore the design space of a quicker, weaker Link since the critique of the character being slow stuck out to him.
• Toon Link replaced Young Link in Brawl, likely a modernization of the ideas Young Link presented since the game was initially going to keep just about everyone (I think the only other initially cut character was Pichu, who may have had a similar deal going on with Pra_Mai).
• Toon Link stays because the "Toon" art style took off, with most of the smaller entries using it. And also likely because of aforementioned reasons.
• Young Link comes back since he's technically a different character than Toon Link.

So yeah. Toon Link returning is still fairly likely I think, at least making it onto the project plan. I don't think we'll be seeing "Toy Link" unless they know from internal sources that they'll be keeping the art style for a while, and even then it might be a bit soon to make that change considering it's only present in two very small titles at this point.

Also, I think the art style is supposed to be a diorama rather than a toybox, so perhaps "Mini Link" would be a more apt name for the character.

 

[fogbadge]

Zelda II and OOT were the sole Adult games(ignoring CD-i, anyway).

ALTTP and LA's normal style is the same overall as Zelda 1(though with more graphical updates). That's what it more refers to. Though this does make it clear he doesn't see the official art to mean "Adult Link" in those cases in order for the statement to make sense. Also, technically speaking, he's not an adult in any of those games either, as he's never 18 at the time. So it can make sense why he treats "Young" like that. Also, he is younger in Zelda 1 by proxy.

Some confusion also exists; he is the same Link in Link's Awakening, which takes place directly after ALTTP. ...He looks outright younger. Though it could be part of the Dream World and simpler sprite. It does apply better now with ALBW and the Oracle Games, where he's clearly a Kid too(note that ALBW is a different Link, though, but it's more a "child Link"). So ALTTP's artwork at that point is basically somewhat "outdated" with the official statements. That said, the Oracle games are not connected in Japan either. They are a US-only timeline thing. ...The remake of Link's Awakening also kind of further cements his age, leaving one game with an odd design at best. It's a bit justified since ALTTP wasn't connected to LA initially and that was retconned in. Sakurai's view is different, though.


Sorry, should've replied to that. I was aware when both of you said that. It had nothing to do with my confusion, heh.

I know all this verde

 

[RileyXY1]

What were we thinking about Metroid Prime 4's release? With all the hype around it I don't imagine they intend to bury it under the next console soooo dual release?

If not then I'd doubt we'd get much of anything from Metroid Prime 4 in the next game.

I think that it will be a holiday 2025 release alongside Gen 10. I think that Legends ZA will be the dual-console release.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Still don’t know if I’ll end up getting it since there are so many games to choose from but it looked fun at least.

I have Gamefly. So I'll definitely be playing it one way or the other.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't think we'll be seeing "Toy Link" unless they know from internal sources that they'll be keeping the art style for a while, and even then it might be a bit soon to make that change considering it's only present in two very small titles at this point.

Also, I think the art style is supposed to be a diorama rather than a toybox, so perhaps "Mini Link" would be a more apt name for the character.

It's worth noting that we have games where Mini refers more to size, as well as stuff like the Poison Mushroom that changes it, so the word Mini would be rather confusing as is. He's not a Miniature Link. It's more Minifig Link, of course, but both words apply if you shorten it. And I'm aware Miniature can also be a term to mean a Minifig too, but shortening it is still strange. Minifig Link wouldn't be a bad name, though... though I guess that's why Toy Link is somewhat of a nickname these days. There's also the funny nickname of Christmas Special Link. But either way, I'm sure whatever name it is, it'll be rather apt.

Outside of a bad translation at worst(coughDuckHuntDuocough. For minor context, the trailer notes that there's a 3rd person, being the player, as part of the moveset, but it also has multiple characters cameo, so it's a pretty misleading name. It's not super bad, unlike the poor Pikmin Captains, who are actually outright misnamed, directly ignoring that the Pikmin are part of the character. Instead of a minor error, it's a complete overhaul of what they should be... for some reason. Albeit, Pikmin & Olimar doesn't sound great in English either, but they did a fairly poor job at conveying the meaning outside of Japanese too).

 

[Will]

I have Gamefly.

You’ve been single-handedly keeping them from bankruptcy for the past decade.

 

[MBRedboy31]

I‘m pretty curious about what “Toy Link” would look like in action as a playable character. It sounds like it’d be pretty cute and funny, given how he’s even more chibi than Toon Link.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think that it will be a holiday 2025 release alongside Gen 10. I think that Legends ZA will be the dual-console release.

So to clarify, you think that both Metroid Prime 4, and Pokémon's flagship Generation 10 games will be releasing on Switch during the holiday when they're probably going to be making their biggest marketing push for the console's successor?

Would Pokémon Legends Z-A be in the spring in this case? Also in the winter?

 

[RileyXY1]

So to clarify, you think that both Metroid Prime 4, and Pokémon's flagship Generation 10 games will be releasing on Switch during the holiday when they're probably going to be making their biggest marketing push for the console's successor?

Would Pokémon Legends Z-A be in the spring in this case? Also in the winter?

I think Legends ZA will be in March as a launch title.

 

[Sucumbio]

Metroid Prime 4

That's it

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's worth noting that we have games where Mini refers more to size, as well as stuff like the Poison Mushroom that changes it, so the word Mini would be rather confusing as is. He's not a Miniature Link. It's more Minifig Link, of course, but both words apply if you shorten it. And I'm aware Miniature can also be a term to mean a Minifig too, but shortening it is still strange. Minifig Link wouldn't be a bad name, though... though I guess that's why Toy Link is somewhat of a nickname these days. There's also the funny nickname of Christmas Special Link. But either way, I'm sure whatever name it is, it'll be rather apt.

Outside of a bad translation at worst(coughDuckHuntDuocough. For minor context, the trailer notes that there's a 3rd person, being the player, as part of the moveset, but it also has multiple characters cameo, so it's a pretty misleading name. It's not super bad, unlike the poor Pikmin Captains, who are actually outright misnamed, directly ignoring that the Pikmin are part of the character. Instead of a minor error, it's a complete overhaul of what they should be... for some reason. Albeit, Pikmin & Olimar doesn't sound great in English either, but they did a fairly poor job at conveying the meaning outside of Japanese too).

Minifig Link wouldn't be too bad, though it reminds me of Lego, which brings us back to Toy Link, which sounds better. lol

I think I'll call him Model Link. Fits the diorama idea without confusing it with toys or the idea of Link getting shrunk.

I think Legends ZA will be in March as a launch title.

That release schedule sounds off to me since it would essentially assassinate both Metroid Prime 4 and Pokémon Gen 10, and that doesn't seem like something Nintendo would want to do given how they've handled the series as of late. I mean, sure backwards compatibility could be a thing, but "Buy these new Switch games, they're backwards compatible with the new console you just bought" is a very weird way to go about your marketing.

 

[fogbadge]

I don’t like the name “Toy Link” for this one

partly cause I hope one day to see a Zelda game where link is transported to a magical toy world and

 

[Diddy Kong]

Am I the first one to think there's a chance Dread might have missed its shot at being the main Samus design in the next Smash because Prime 4 has a release date now?

I think the other way around honestly. Prime 4 likely will be considered for DLC candidates. Speaking of Sylux here mainly, as he's gonna be huge.

However, having Raven Beak, Sylux, Dark Samus and Ridley amongst 2 versions of Samus seems like overkill to me.

I'd much rather keep the Metroid roster as is. Or if they wanna include characters , get rid of Dark and Zero Suit Samus maybe. However, might not be worth it.

Think a new Zelda character is easier to debate at this point. In which case, Impa.

 

[Will]

Metroid Prime 4

That's it

Erm, since we have Dark Samus, we already have plenty of Prime representation.

We need real gaming icons to fill the slots! Real characters that have concurrent releases on Nintendo consoles that carry decades-long legacy! Like this guy!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don’t like the name “Toy Link” for this one

partly cause I hope one day to see a Zelda game where link is transported to a magical toy world and

and then he fights Mario and Pikachu and Kirby and...whaddaya mean that already exists?

I think the other way around honestly. Prime 4 likely will be considered for DLC candidates. Speaking of Sylux here mainly, as he's gonna be huge.

However, having Raven Beak, Sylux, Dark Samus and Ridley amongst 2 versions of Samus seems like overkill to me.

I'd much rather keep the Metroid roster as is. Or if they wanna include characters , get rid of Dark and Zero Suit Samus maybe. However, might not be worth it.

Think a new Zelda character is easier to debate at this point. In which case, Impa.

I haven't considered this for Sylux, but I guess that would make for a third/fourth Metroid character in power armor that shoots you with an arm cannon. Definitely not ideal to have so many at once, especially in rapid succession.

I'd be down for a Metroid though. I'm sure they wouldn't add it since the most obvious way to go about that would be to include an evolution mechanic, which might require several move sets, but it could be pretty cool.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Erm, since we have Dark Samus, we already have plenty of Prime representation.

We need real gaming icons to fill the slots! Real characters that have concurrent releases on Nintendo consoles that carry decades-long legacy! Like this guy!

View attachment 391288​

Nah, the American marketing will be forced to claim his inclusion is SSB X Leisure Suit Larry instead of SSB X Leisure Suit Larry. Wait a minute

 

[Will]

Nah, the American marketing will be forced to claim his inclusion is SSB X Leisure Suit Larry instead of SSB X Leisure Suit Larry. Wait a minute

I was ****posting as I was typing and then learned the horrible truth about Larry having two games on the Switch.

And the fact that Larry’s VA is dead.

And the fact that he also voiced Tetsuo from Akira, I’m learning a lot of fascinating trivia today.

 

[DarthEnderX]

View attachment 391286

You’ve been single-handedly keeping them from bankruptcy for the past decade.

It's a service that serves me well honestly. Lotta games I only want to play once.

LSL instead of Graham as the Sierra rep?!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

"We've noticed that Triforce of Wisdom was too powerful, even for a Final Smash, so we've replaced it with a new Final Smash: Echo Barrage! Zelda uses the Tri Rod to summon echoes of various objects, and hurls them at you, finishing things off with an echo of the kitchen sink."

EDIT: I kid, though I could see the Tri Rod make a cosmetic appearance to explain the Phantom summon since it meshes with her aesthetic more than the dark magic we currently have.

 

[Noipoi]

I think Legends ZA will be in March as a launch title.

If Legends Z-A comes out anytime after January we probably aren’t getting Gen in the same year. They’d 100% announce it on Pokemon Day in February, and they don’t do that while also trying to hype up Z-A coming out in a month. It’d cannibalize both releases.

Say what you will about Scarlet/Violet’s reveal, at least those games were announced after PLA’s release. It had a whole month to itself.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I still really hope Gen 10 comes out in 2026, partially because I think it makes a lot of sense to set up the 10th Generation as their 30th anniversary game (when are you ever gonna get an opportunity for a setup like that for a little bit of marketing push in a Pokemon Day presentation), but also just to let Gen 10 breathe a little after Gen 9 was so buggy on release and after the release of Z-A. It won't eliminate everything obviously, but I think Pokemon Company/Game Freak could stand to let their releases breathe a little as games get put on more powerful hardware.

I am half-expecting a Legends Arceus to Gen 9 deal here realistically, but I hope the slight marketing push for the 30th anniversary is enough to persuade them to allow a little breathing room here and there since I have no doubt that Z-A and Gen 10 are being developed/worked on around the same time lol

 

[Noipoi]

I still really hope Gen 10 comes out in 2026, partially because I think it makes a lot of sense to set up the 10th Generation as their 30th anniversary game (when are you ever gonna get an opportunity for a setup like that for a little bit of marketing push in a Pokemon Day presentation), but also just to let Gen 10 breathe a little after Gen 9 was so buggy on release and after the release of Z-A. It won't eliminate everything obviously, but I think Pokemon Company/Game Freak could stand to let their releases breathe a little as games get put on more powerful hardware.

I am half-expecting a Legends Arceus to Gen 9 deal here realistically, but I hope the slight marketing push for the 30th anniversary is enough to persuade them to allow a little breathing room here and there since I have no doubt that Z-A and Gen 10 are being developed/worked on around the same time lol

I can understand the pessimism a lot of people have, it’s not like Gamefreak has earned the benefit of the doubt. But if you just look at the situation objectively, I think there’s just not enough evidence suggesting that it’ll happen this way.

The only way I really think it’d happen is if, like I said, Z-A drops in January. And yes it happened before, but does that mean that it has to happen in the exact same way again? All my research (which I do admit could be wrong) shows me that PLA and S/V coming out within 10 months of each other was mostly a fluke, not a sign of their new release schedule.

But I’ll stop ranting about Pokemon now I know people get sick of it

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I can understand the pessimism a lot of people have, it’s not like Gamefreak has earned the benefit of the doubt. But if you just look at the situation objectively, I think there’s just not enough evidence suggesting that it’ll happen this way.

The only way I really think it’d happen is if, like I said, Z-A drops in January. And yes it happened before, but does that mean that it has to happen in the exact same way again? All my research (which I do admit could be wrong) shows me that PLA and S/V coming out within 10 months of each other was mostly a fluke, not a sign of their new release schedule.

But I’ll stop ranting about Pokemon now I know people get sick of it

Well I do have more hope than I did before it got announced because they have no major release planned this year outside of that like TCG phone app thing they announced on Pokemon Day that they aren't even in charge of. Plus I think a higher-up at Game Freak mentioned looking into ways to sort of alter their release schedule, or at least they were "having conversations" about it, which I think are potentially good signs.

 

[Will]

LSL instead of Graham as the Sierra rep?!

He’s got that big **** energy and relevance on current Nintendo systems that Graham lacks.

 

[Guynamednelson]

big **** energy

You sure about that? Because part of LSL1 includes buying an...extra small condom.