Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

I think they might have 3rd parties newcomers mostly as DLC with one or two at base for example maybe Sans and Chun-Li in base, i expect 95% of the newcomers base game to be 1st party otherwise as usual.

I also have a list of what imo, are the most likely new franchises get a rep base game:

Most likely new 1st party franchises to get a rep base game:
1. Ring Fit
2. Astral Chain
3. Golden Sun
4. Wars
5. Rhythm Tengoku

Most likely new 3rd party franchises to get a rep base game:
1. Undertale
2. Resident Evil
3. DOOM
4. Tales of
5. Touhou

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Most likely new 3rd party franchises to get a rep base game:
1. Undertale
2. Resident Evil
3. DOOM
4. Tales of
5. Touhou

As someone who loves Touhou and Reimu is one of their most wanted characters, I feel like I need to say Touhou is almost certainly not the fifth most likely third party to get added to Smash lol

Like Shovel Knight's getting a sequel and Rayman was just in a Mario spin-off, so that's at least two more that I would think have priority over Reimu.

 

[dream1ng]

Most likely new 3rd party franchises to get a rep base game:
1. Undertale
2. Resident Evil
3. DOOM
4. Tales of
5. Touhou

Source:

You could list five totally different series and at this point it'd seem no less accurate. Here:

1. Monster Hunter
2. Yakuza/LaD
3. Ninja Gaiden
4. Crash
5. Dark Souls

 

[Noipoi]

The five most likely games to get a newcomer in the next Smash.

1. Five Nights at Freddy’s
2. Five Nights at Freddy’s
3. Five Nights at Freddy’s
4. Five Nights at Freddy’s
5. Five Nights at Freddy’s

 

[dream1ng]

The five most likely games to get a newcomer in the next Smash.

1. Five Nights at Freddy’s
2. Five Nights at Freddy’s
3. Five Nights at Freddy’s
4. Five Nights at Freddy’s
5. Five Nights at Freddy’s

I disagree with number 4, but the rest seems accurate.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I can't really narrow it down to franchises that feel most likely to get new characters, but my best guess is that there's various third companies in. With the consideration of worldwide appeal, preexisting relationship, and general company status, here's my best guess roughly by tier:

Tier 1
Sega, Square Enix, Capcom

Tier 2
Konami, Bandai-Namco, Microsoft (and the divisions it owns)

Tier 3
SNK, Koei Tecmo, Ubisoft, Take Two Entertainment, WB Games, Epic Games, Tencent Games

Tier 4
EA Games, Sony Interactive Entertainment (barring maybe Aloy)

Keep in mind this is for brand new characters, not veterans coming back. I'm also aware Koei Tecmo being that low is a bit controversial, but that's just my take.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think we'll get fewer new ones than Ultimate had, and we'll probably get more. How many more, who knows.

It is no doubt an effort to negotiate and work with western third-parties in ways different than Japanese companies, but I don't think it's so arduous as to not expand. Sakurai was talking about how difficult it was to work with third-parties in Brawl, when there were... two. Now look at things.

I'm sure Sakurai is provided a whole team of producers, translators, and other intermediaries to expedite collaboration with foreign devs. Especially if the impetus for a specific inclusion comes from Nintendo. Which allegedly it does often, for the third-parties.

And it also helps that MS now basically owns more of the likelier (non-indie) western candidates than not.

I don't know. I think that the next Smash game will be a massive downsize of the roster, and have a smaller scope than Ultimate. I'm not expecting that many third parties in general.

 

[dream1ng]

I don't know. I think that the next Smash game will be a massive downsize of the roster, and have a smaller scope than Ultimate. I'm not expecting that many third parties in general.

I also think the roster will overall be smaller, but I don't think that's going to happen via fewer newcomers. And due to where we're at with the first-parties and the continued trajectory of the third-parties, I think the latter are only going to be a growing proportion of total newcomers, as they have been to date.

And within that, western third-parties are a well still mostly untapped. They started last time, I think, like with third-parties in general, we'll see a gradual increase in subsequent games. At least until a plateau I don't think we've yet hit.

 

[RileyXY1]

I also think the roster will overall be smaller, but I don't think that's going to happen via fewer newcomers. And due to where we're at with the first-parties and the continued trajectory of the third-parties, I think the latter are only going to be a growing proportion of total newcomers, as they have been to date.

And within that, western third-parties are a well still mostly untapped. They started last time, I think, like with third-parties in general, we'll see a gradual increase in subsequent games. At least until a plateau I don't think we've yet hit.

Although it's mostly been through DLC. I think all the third party characters next game except for a select few will be DLC, and I'm not expecting much Western characters due to potential issues like language barrier problems.

 

[dream1ng]

Although it's mostly been through DLC. I think all the third party characters next game except for a select few will be DLC,

I think we're going to see more third-party base newcomers than before, but it will still primarily be first-party. And then yes, most of the third-party characters will be DLC. Including several of the existing vets.

and I'm not expecting much Western characters due to potential issues like language barrier problems.

You know these companies staff entire divisions for translation, right? One more step may add a bit more dev time but it's not like it's going to be Sakurai and like Phil Spencer directly messaging each other. The language barrier will be solved by the professionals employed to eliminate the language barrier.

Sakurai's English isn't very good, and yet we all understand what's being said in the showcases and on his channel, thanks to the translators.

If optimizing time over branching out was their key concern we wouldn't already have all the existing western content. Hell, we wouldn't have all the existing third-party content full stop. They certainly wouldn't go to the effort of negotiating with Ubisoft, Bethesda, Yacht Club, etc just for supporting content.

Japanese characters will presumably remain the bulk of those added, it's def not gonna be 50:50, but this is really just an extension of the old argument that we'd never get more than a small few third-parties in general due to the challenge it posed. Smash clearly does not shy away from these kind of things.

Plus they already have contact and have worked with all the likeliest providers of western content, whether MS, Ubisoft, or those handful of indies, which will truncate initial stages of communication.

 

[7NATOR]

So what does everyone think will be the hook for the next Smash that sets it apart from all the rest? As much as I loved “Everyone is Here!”, EiH2 doesn’t quite have the same impact the second time around. Not to say that I wouldn’t still love it but even in the best case scenario, it risks feeling like just more of the same. For the roster selection, I can think of a few directions they could go that could be pretty exciting.

The first and most obvious idea is expanding the selection to more Western third party characters. I’d love if Smash became a more general global celebration of gaming that reached beyond just one region. While I do tend to prefer Japanese games as a whole, there’s plenty of Western developed games and characters I’d love to see as well.

The second is turning Smash into a “Nintendo vs X”. This would allow for a more static roster size between games of around 50-60 characters total without the expectation of an ever expanding roster. With each game, at least 50% of the characters would be completely fresh since they’d pair off with a different company. It would also presumably make character negotiations easier since they only have to deal with a single company per game.

Finally, and most controversially, they could open the “forbidden door” to characters like we’ve been talking about for the last few pages. I feel this approach is high risk high reward because it has a good chance to lose the support of a lot of current Smash fans but also has the highest likelihood of bringing in the most new fans.

It will have Shadow the Hedgehog as a Playable Character!

................Also, I think they might expand on the idea of being able to Switch Characters in the Middle of Battle, like Squad Strike, and the Final battle of Smash Tour, so More Crossover elements in the actual gameplay pretty much

Simple stuff like being able to play as a Different Character per stock, but I could also see something like the crossover Mechanic from MVC1 where your character can come in along with you. maybe also Expansion on Assist Only Characters being more part of main gameplay. It would also showcase the power of the Next Switch, since it be mechanics not possible on previous systems

 

[HyperSomari64]

I can't really narrow it down to franchises that feel most likely to get new characters, but my best guess is that there's various third companies in. With the consideration of worldwide appeal, preexisting relationship, and general company status, here's my best guess roughly by tier:

Tier 1
Sega, Square Enix, Capcom

Tier 2
Konami, Bandai-Namco, Microsoft (and the divisions it owns)

Tier 3
SNK, Koei Tecmo, Ubisoft, Take Two Entertainment, WB Games, Epic Games, Tencent Games

Tier 4
EA Games, Sony Interactive Entertainment (barring maybe Aloy)

Keep in mind this is for brand new characters, not veterans coming back. I'm also aware Koei Tecmo being that low is a bit controversial, but that's just my take.

I think Bamco should be a Tier higher. After all is clearly obvious they will continue helping with Smash's development.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the latter are only going to be a growing proportion of total newcomers, as they have been to date

I'm 50/50 on this.
On the other hand it makes sense since honestly a lot of people are asking for 3rd parties, but smash bros is nintendo first and foremost, it would be odd to smash suddenly stop focusing on nintendo.

 

[Louie G.]

I'm 50/50 on this.
On the other hand it makes sense since honestly a lot of people are asking for 3rd parties, but smash bros is nintendo first and foremost, it would be odd to smash suddenly stop focusing on nintendo.

I mean, "growing proportion" could mean that we get three or four new third parties on base roster instead of one or two. Assuming we still get 12-15 new characters, it's not like that would become the majority... it's just an increase from the last couple times. No doubt Nintendo still has a significant edge.

I can't speak for dream1ng directly, that's just how I interpret it. And I generally agree, particularly because some of Smash's tightest collaborators are going to be remarkably easy to work with the third or fourth time around. Why not grab Chun-Li or Tails while they're at it, in addition to bringing in Monster Hunter and then like one new collaborator like Koei Tecmo / Ryu Hayabusa. Or any combination of characters, you get the idea.

I don't think we're running out of first parties and I don't think Smash's structure or appeal has changed in a way that necessarily requires more third party newcomers to keep attention, or anything like that. But if we keep the trend of a couple new third party series introduced per game, and then expand on that with a couple secondary reps from third party series that have stuck around for a while now, that's already more third parties than usual.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I can't really narrow it down to franchises that feel most likely to get new characters, but my best guess is that there's various third companies in. With the consideration of worldwide appeal, preexisting relationship, and general company status, here's my best guess roughly by tier:

Tier 1
Sega, Square Enix, Capcom

Tier 2
Konami, Bandai-Namco, Microsoft (and the divisions it owns)

Tier 3
SNK, Koei Tecmo, Ubisoft, Take Two Entertainment, WB Games, Epic Games, Tencent Games

Tier 4
EA Games, Sony Interactive Entertainment (barring maybe Aloy)

Keep in mind this is for brand new characters, not veterans coming back. I'm also aware Koei Tecmo being that low is a bit controversial, but that's just my take.

No mention of Arc System Works?

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I'm still of the mindset that Elden Ring is underlooked. It was recently confirmed that it's broken 25 million sales, and still has the DLC launching in a few days. It's officially surpassed Monster Hunter World, Capcom's most successful title ever, in a third of the time, its sales and growth rate are on par with and even slightly above Skyrim. To my knowledge, it's the most successful platinum Japanese game ever in terms of growth rate next to TOTK and some of the s-tier Nintendo franchises.

I feel like that's a pretty big deal, and given the Switch 2's reported specs, I think it's pretty likely that Elden Ring will be one of the big marquis third-party ports in the console's first year, occupying the same position Skyrim did for the Switch 1. Additionally, while I don't think this means a ton given Sakurai plays pretty much every game, it's worth noting that he's praised the Souls series multiple times and cited Miyazaki as the specific director he pays close attention to and respects.

(＜Question 3＞People you personally pay attention to in 2021.)

I respect all creators, but if I had to name one, it would be Hidetaka Miyazaki.

I think he is one of the most balanced directors in the world, and he continues to have a great impact on the game industry.

It may seem strange to call his work "highly balanced," but direction is a choice.

Can kind of see the overlap, but it's interesting, and I think the impact of the Souls series speaks for itself.

 

[dream1ng]

I'm 50/50 on this.
On the other hand it makes sense since honestly a lot of people are asking for 3rd parties, but smash bros is nintendo first and foremost, it would be odd to smash suddenly stop focusing on nintendo.

I mean, "growing proportion" could mean that we get three or four new third parties on base roster instead of one or two. Assuming we still get 12-15 new characters, it's not like that would become the majority... it's just an increase from the last couple times. No doubt Nintendo still has a significant edge.

I can't speak for dream1ng directly, that's just how I interpret it. And I generally agree, particularly because some of Smash's tightest collaborators are going to be remarkably easy to work with the third or fourth time around. Why not grab Chun-Li or Tails while they're at it, in addition to bringing in Monster Hunter and then like one new collaborator like Koei Tecmo / Ryu Hayabusa. Or any combination of characters, you get the idea.

I don't think we're running out of first parties and I don't think Smash's structure or appeal has changed in a way that necessarily requires more third party newcomers to keep attention, or anything like that. But if we keep the trend of a couple new third party series introduced per game, and then expand on that with a couple secondary reps from third party series that have stuck around for a while now, that's already more third parties than usual.

Well I didn't have a specific number in mind, just more than before. But not with some drastic spike in trajectory. We're not going to get to the point the total number of third-parties comes near the total number of Nintendo characters.

As for newcomers, I don't know. I think base will be mostly first-parties, but I think going forward the series will gradually shift a lot of its character content to the post-release rollout, as many games, especially in this genre, have, and DLC seems like a different story.

But I think the Nintendo majority status quo will be upheld in large part to cycling out a good handful of third-parties each game. I think third-parties will be one of the more cut categories. I know people disagree with that, but I think they're going to cut third-parties before letting the game fill up with them to the extent it starts to encroach upon first party numbers. Which will happen sooner when the total count is lower.
And that's for logistical, budgetary, and ideological reasons.

Also regardless of proportion, it's not going to stop focusing on Nintendo, because a newcomer might have one trailer dedicated to them and then show up here and there, but characters like Mario, Kirby, Link, etc. will remain the biggest staples of nearly all trailers/marketing/narratives/etc.

 

[Master_Scorpion]

I think the 4 most likely 3rd party characters for base game are: Bomberman, Monster Hunter, Eggman, and Chun-Li

 

[magiciandude]

There really isn't a lot I want when it comes to new characters. Ryu Hayabusa, Crash Bandicoot, a 2nd Sonic character (preferably Shadow), Kratos, and Master Chief is all I need. I feel like Smash Ultimate's roster is nearly perfected and completed. Any other characters added would be icing to the cake.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think the 4 most likely 3rd party characters for base game are: Bomberman, Monster Hunter, Eggman, and Chun-Li

Why are those four most likely?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The five most likely games to get a newcomer in the next Smash.

1. Five Nights at Freddy’s
2. Five Nights at Freddy’s
3. Five Nights at Freddy’s
4. Five Nights at Freddy’s
5. Five Nights at Freddy’s

As much as I'd love it, I'd be shocked if our first indie rep was from FNaF of all things, even if the series is doing quite well.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

 

[cashregister9]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

My answer to this is always Falcom

 

[dream1ng]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

ASW, Level-5, maybe 2K (technically I guess Take-Two, but 2K specifically, not Rockstar).

 

[Noipoi]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

Nintendo

 

[dream1ng]

Nintendo

Seems unlikely, they're not especially known for lending their characters out, and a fighting game might be extra tricky. Plus then when they'd have to work with another picky company like Smash's publisher, forget about it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

I think Nippon Ichi could fit the bill.

 

[Wonder Smash]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

Nihom Falcom, as already mentioned, and to lesser extent Arc System Works.

 

[Nickthebrick1]

So guys, three questions. Do you think there's a chance that some of the assist trophies may become characters in the next smash bros (aside from waluigi, that is)

And what are the chances of the next smash bros become a title released with the console? Or maybe it will come out roughly a year later just like ultimate

So it's inevitable that one day, Sakurai would have to stop working on the series, if so, do you think Nintendo could still keep the series going without him. I know Sakurai said they tried this once and it didn't work out but that was a while ago, and since the series has been well-defined at this point, with it being a major series for Nintendo, I think they would try their damnest to keep it going. One game per console generation allows for a lot of breathing room. That and Studios S is becoming a thing.

 

[Noipoi]

So guys, three questions. Do you think there's a chance that some of the assist trophies may become characters in the next smash bros (aside from waluigi, that is)

It’s definitely a possibility.

And what are the chances of the next smash bros become a title released with the console? Or maybe it will come out roughly a year later just like ultimate

Ehh…probably not. New Smash games tend to launch a year or so after a new console’s release, once things are settled in more.

So it's inevitable that one day, Sakurai would have to stop working on the series, if so, do you think Nintendo could still keep the series going without him. I know Sakurai said they tried this once and it didn't work out but that was a while ago, and since the series has been well-defined at this point, with it being a major series for Nintendo, I think they would try their damnest to keep it going. One game per console generation allows for a lot of breathing room. That and Studios S is becoming a thing.

They’ll absolutely keep it going without him. They respect Sakurai a whole ton, and they’ll probably keep asking him to come back until he flat out refuses, but once that day comes they’ll just get a new director. Smash generates too much hype and too much money for them to just give up on it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do you think there's a chance that some of the assist trophies may become characters in the next smash bros (aside from waluigi, that is)

Yep. I think Bomberman, Zero, Alucard, Shovel Knight and Waluigi all have a shot.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So guys, three questions. Do you think there's a chance that some of the assist trophies may become characters in the next smash bros (aside from waluigi, that is)

And what are the chances of the next smash bros become a title released with the console? Or maybe it will come out roughly a year later just like ultimate

So it's inevitable that one day, Sakurai would have to stop working on the series, if so, do you think Nintendo could still keep the series going without him. I know Sakurai said they tried this once and it didn't work out but that was a while ago, and since the series has been well-defined at this point, with it being a major series for Nintendo, I think they would try their damnest to keep it going. One game per console generation allows for a lot of breathing room. That and Studios S is becoming a thing.

Definitely think there's a chance of the first one happening since it happened to Little Mac in Smash 4 and Isabelle/Dark Samus in Ultimate.

Smash has never really come out alongside the console. The closest was Melee (Gamecube was September 2001, Melee was November 2001), but at this point I think Nintendo is pretty set on having it come out about a year or so after the console does, since Brawl was November 2006/January 2008, Smash 4 was November 2012/September 2014 (this one's close to two years, but was also two games being co-developed), and Ultimate was March 2017/December 2018.

And they'll definitely keep Smash going after Sakurai stops, since it's very monetarily successful (third highest selling game on the Switch after Mario Kart 8 Deluxe and Animal Crossing New Horizons), and I wouldn't be surprised if that's at least partially why that S Studio at Bandai Namco became a thing since Bandai Namco has been helping work on Smash for like 10+ years now, like building a team that knows how to make a Smash game so down the line they can just continue doing that even if Sakurai refuses/retires.

 

[Ivander]

So guys, three questions. Do you think there's a chance that some of the assist trophies may become characters in the next smash bros (aside from waluigi, that is)

Well, so far since Brawl, we've been getting at least 1 non-player character from a summon item per game. Brawl gave us Charizard. Smash 4 gave us Little Mac. Then Ultimate gave us Isabelle and Dark Samus. With a whole bunch of popular characters in Ultimate's Assist Trophy line-up, I'd be shocked if we only got Waluigi.

 

[Nickthebrick1]

Yep. I think Bomberman, Zero, Alucard, Shovel Knight and Waluigi all have a shot.

Any reasoning for those five in particular?

 

[Noipoi]

Shadow’s getting a huge boost, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was also an AT upgrade.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Any reasoning for those five in particular?

Nope.

Shadow’s getting a huge boost, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was also an AT upgrade.

Oh yeah. Shadow too.

 

[HyperSomari64]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

Idea Factory
But here's the twist: Is not a Hyperdimension Neptunia character.

 

[Amornal1]

So guys... What companies do you think could be the new SNK? A company that would take most by surprise but would make sense in hindsight.

Personally, i think that from software with elden ring could be that company. That or arc system works.

 

[Michele]

HELLO! Are we ready for a new wave of Smash 6 rumors? https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/1dgr6q1/the_future_of_super_smash_bros/

In short, Sakurai has finished all videos on his 'Masahiro Sakurai on Creating Games', he previously mentioned wanting to wrap things up to work on an upcoming project. The job positions on Namco Studios S and 2 (current devs on Smash Ultimate) have closed.

This brings us to this question though. Is it going to be about the kid icarus remake? Sakurai did mention wanting to do it and it'd be cool, so that isn't entirely out of possibility.

There's 100% gonna be a roster cutdown from Ultimate, but it does beg the question here, is there going to be a hard reboot or a soft one / some continuation? Personally, I don't think I'd be too happy about a hard reboot but that would depend entirely on the direction they are willing to take Smash in. I think it would be lovely if they made a story on the level of Subspace Emissary but I'm not expecting much. An original story with original characters (no, not Miis, something like real world characters intermingling with Smash Bros world...) would be a new take to keep the series fresh...

 

[DarthEnderX]

There's 100% gonna be a roster cutdown from Ultimate, but it does beg the question here, is there going to be a hard reboot or a soft one / some continuation?

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