Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[pitchfulprocessing]

i think we're better off asking for better representation in gaming before we move onto smash

You can just do both, which people already do. Smash is apart of gaming.

 

[Will]

I know a lot of you guys want King Hippo as the second Punch-Out rep... but I think we might be sleeping on Mr. Sandman.

I'm not sorry.

He’s intimidating, but not full of character. That’s why I always prefer the original World Circuit Champion

SUPER
MACHO
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

​

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

Guys, I have bad news. We're gonna have to deal with "Banban For Smash" fans next game:

also is very obvious that Euphoric Brothers want more money,also Garden of Banban sucks a lot

 

[fogbadge]

I think we can do both at the same time. It’s true that gaming in general could really benefit from more diversity in characters but there are already some great options to diversify Smash with existing characters.

Just one example of a character I’d love to see in Smash is Vi from Arcane/League of Legends. She’s just an awesome character in her own right and written very well but she’s also LGBT. She’s the main protagonist of a very popular show in a huge series so she’s definitely important enough of a character to be worth consideration outside of anything else. She’s on my list because I just really like her as a character but the added diversity she’d bring to Smash helps.

Vi does have a bit going for her. But I don’t think league is terribly likely. And who knows if arcane would even play a factor in getting into smash. She may have more competition than at first glance

You can just do both, which people already do. Smash is apart of gaming.

I meant triple A not indie gaming

 

[cashregister9]

I unlocked all the characters via World Of Light, which was actually really fun, because I didn't know who I would get next so I would use characters I didn't really use in the past and I like the feeling of getting a larger and larger arsenal of characters to tackle the harder spirits and bosses.

 

[Gengar84]

He’s intimidating, but not full of character. That’s why I always prefer the original World Circuit Champion

SUPER
MACHO
MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
View attachment 390259​

Oooh yeah!

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[DarthEnderX]

He’s intimidating, but not full of character. That’s why I always prefer the original World Circuit Champion

Mr. Sandman is the original Punch-Out champion though. Being the final boss of the first arcade game. Super Macho Man was the boss of the 2nd arcade game. Making him a Johnny-come-lately.

 

[Will]

Mr. Sandman is the original Punch-Out champion though. Being the final boss of the first arcade game. Super Macho Man was the boss of the 2nd arcade game. Making him a Johnny-come-lately.

Unfortunately, you’re right. I misremembered.

I’d still prefer him over Sandman and Hippo out of a combination of practicality and his infectious personality.

Oooh yeah!

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Release the B O G U S

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

We talking Punch-Out again?

Should I reiterate that there's someone who would be the most distinct of all the boxer options and wouldn't have the "not an air fighter" bs?

 

[SPEN18]

I like unlockable characters. It's fun to see the roster come together over the course of the first several hours of playing. The best way to do it, though, is to just give multiple ways of unlocking each character so that you'll get everyone fairly easily no matter which of the main modes you enjoy playing the most. You just want to avoid it turning into too much of a slog.

 

[chocolatejr9]

also is very obvious that Euphoric Brothers want more money,also Garden of Banban sucks a lot

I mean, I was trying to make a joke, even if it wasn't very funny...

 

[Will]

Glass Joe could also work. Nobody’s ready for that conversation, though.

 

[Louie G.]

To be honest I think wanting a character primarily on the basis of wanting more representation is perfectly valid lol.

I think so too, although given how this topic has went down in the pass I try to emphasize the characters' additional merits in case someone isn't convinced. Unfortunately discussions of representation and diversity are prone to circular arguments that I was trying to avoid. People seeing themselves in the games they play is important and I do hope there's an opportunity for Smash to pick up the slack.

The greater industry still has a lot of growing to do, but progressively we are seeing this come to fruition. Nintendo themselves are no exception. I've been a pretty vocal advocate for seeing one of the Splatoon idol teams in Smash lately. I think Off the Hook is not only an incredibly popular and fun duo of characters in a vacuum, but are also representative of Nintendo's willingness to introduce more racially diverse characters up front and, implied or otherwise, characters who make the LGBT community feel seen. I generally just like OTH better anyway, but in my opinion that makes them a far more optimal choice than someone like Squid Sisters who may do effectively the same thing anyway. Splatoon is a melting pot of cultural influences and urban aesthetics that especially make its inherent diversity something to celebrate.

Mr. Sandman came up before and I'm not sure if it was related to this conversation or not, but Punch-Out certainly has no drought of culturally diverse characters. Despite its reputation of playing into cultural stereotypes, I only need to point toward Punch-Out Wii's great attention toward accurately translating to each boxer's home language and hiring voice actors from their respective countries. Even back 35 years ago, Punch-Out was ahead of the curve in introducing strong black characters in prominent roles, with Doc Louis' being Mac's accomplished and reliable coach. I don't suspect Punch-Out has much of a chance of seeing another playable character anytime soon, but I feel the need to acknowledge its surprisingly intricate and respectful representation.

Glass Joe could also work. Nobody’s ready for that conversation, though.

I would genuinely endorse Glass Joe as a joke character if Little Mac wasn't already chilling in the low tier pool himself. At the very least, he ought to show up as a dud Assist Trophy or something. Said it a million times but the biggest crime in the whole game is the strange refusal to give Punch-Out an AT.

 

[Deleted member]

I just wanna say, whoever cuts Diddy from their roster should block me. I'm not here for that kind of ****.

In another forum, people have agreed with me when I said characters like Bayonetta, Banjo, Ridley, Shulk, Rosalina, and Robin are most likely not going anywhere. People often believe that characters they dislike or those they main but feel are underrated might get cut, even though it’s obvious they won’t unless the next game is a hard reboot with only 20 characters. I mean, in what universe are they cutting Shulk, Ridley, or Rosalina?

However, I’ve also encountered people going ballistic when I suggested that characters like Pokemon Trainer, Sheik, or Zero Suit Samus might not be as safe as we think if there are going to be 15+ cuts. It seems everyone has their own personal “characters that are likely to be cut or stay” lists, and whether they make sense to you is up in the air. At this point, I just see them like i see newcomer lists—something that can vary from person to person and may not always align with my own opinions.

 

[cashregister9]

I think Doc Louis is neat, he should be a fighter.

 

[DragonRobotKing26]

since we're talking about Punch-Out,it could be excelent Donkey Kong having a alternate costume of himself on Punch-Out of Wii

 

[Louie G.]

I mean, in what universe are they cutting Shulk, Ridley, or Rosalina?

I don't think Rosalina is in that much danger, but I think it's over-valuing her a bit to put her on the same level as Xenoblade's first protagonist and Metroid's most recurring and iconic villain. She is ultimately a secondary addition to the Mario cast and has settled into more of a spinoff-centric supporting role.

This doesn't make her unsafe on its own, if any series can sustain more secondary supporting characters it would be Mario, but she's not exactly the biggest no brainer on the roster. I can easily see a scenario where the roster needs to be condensed even further and Bowser Jr takes priority being a far more prominent character within the Mario brand and core titles over the last decade. Rosalina gets by a bit more on fulfilling a unique gameplay niche and being a pretty visually interesting character, so on the basis of roster variety she remains a valuable inclusion, but Mario has at least four other characters that outrank her which is not an issue that someone like Shulk or Ridley have to worry about.

 

[Will]

Said it a million times but the biggest crime in the whole game is the strange refusal to give Punch-Out an AT.

King Hippo should take that role. It’s always made the most sense to me.

 

[Deleted member]

2. Rayman: His series is not incredibly important, but he has non-playable content since base For, so it kind of feels like the foot is already in the door to some degree.

Sans and Rayman (speciall the later) always felt a bit overlooked in Smash 6 speculation talks, i think they got a decent shoot.

Dark Souls is probably just outright the most "important" Japanese franchise which doesn't have significant content in Smash

Agreed, i think DS is also slept on.

 

[Louie G.]

I think Doc Louis is neat, he should be a fighter.

I love Doc, he's genuinely one of my favorite Nintendo characters, but I don't particularly want to be playable. He's a fantastic mentor for Mac and if anything I just wish they emphasized his presence a bit more. Have him shout out words of encouragement from the sidelines, give him a short codec sort of thing. He's obviously the second most important character in the Punch-Out series but I'd sooner prefer one of the enemy boxers fulfill a playable role.

King Hippo, Bald Bull, Mr. Sandman... Glass Joe like we mentioned before... Aran Ryan or Great Tiger if they want to get crazy with it. To be clear, if they DID add Doc Louis I would play the hell out of him. I'd just prefer if they made him a more visible part of Mac's identity instead, it feels like the best way to represent his role in the series. I'm very happy he shows up in those victory screens, at least.

 

[ScrubReborn]

I think in terms of newcomers for the next game's base roster, they should have some of the more obvious newcomers in the starting roster have some of the more left-field newcomers be unlockable.

I can think of an exception; I'm not sure where Waluigi would fall in these groups, but even if he's in the former, he would 100% make sense as an unlockable.

Unpopular opinion but I love Ultimate's approach to unlocking characters. I love unlockables as is, and completing versus matches one after another and seeing that challenger approaching screen pop up is always exciting.

I'd never want a Smash Bros game without unlockable characters. When games like MK8DX or Mario Tennis Aces come right out of the gate with all the characters unlocked (no, the texture change for Metal Mario does not count) it feels suuuuuuper lame.

We used to be a proper country.

While I greatly disliked Ultimate's approach to unlocking (mostly 'cause of the sheer volume) spot on on the appeal of unlockables. Just going through random modes in Melee/Brawl and getting Challenger Approaching screens at random was the best. especially when I had no idea who the character was/that the character was in the game.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I think so too, although given how this topic has went down in the pass I try to emphasize the characters' additional merits in case someone isn't convinced. Unfortunately discussions of representation and diversity are prone to circular arguments that I was trying to avoid. People seeing themselves in the games they play is important and I do hope there's an opportunity for Smash to pick up the slack.

The greater industry still has a lot of growing to do, but progressively we are seeing this come to fruition. Nintendo themselves are no exception. I've been a pretty vocal advocate for seeing one of the Splatoon idol teams in Smash lately. I think Off the Hook is not only an incredibly popular and fun duo of characters in a vacuum, but are also representative of Nintendo's willingness to introduce more racially diverse characters up front and, implied or otherwise, characters who make the LGBT community feel seen. I generally just like OTH better anyway, but in my opinion that makes them a far more optimal choice than someone like Squid Sisters who may do effectively the same thing anyway. Splatoon is a melting pot of cultural influences and urban aesthetics that especially make its inherent diversity something to celebrate.

Mr. Sandman came up before and I'm not sure if it was related to this conversation or not, but Punch-Out certainly has no drought of culturally diverse characters. Despite its reputation of playing into cultural stereotypes, I only need to point toward Punch-Out Wii's great attention toward accurately translating to each boxer's home language and hiring voice actors from their respective countries. Even back 35 years ago, Punch-Out was ahead of the curve in introducing strong black characters in prominent roles, with Doc Louis' being Mac's accomplished and reliable coach. I don't suspect Punch-Out has much of a chance of seeing another playable character anytime soon, but I feel the need to acknowledge its surprisingly intricate and respectful representation.

For sure, and it's definitely good to see Nintendo making some kind of push, even if it obviously could be better. Off the Hook definitely on paper I think are great picks for that reason, they're popular and diverse characters with a very distinct personality and tap into that section of fandom. Though I do definitely struggle to imagine what their moveset could be like. It's also interesting to see on Xenoblade's end too, it taking gradual steps, and Fire Emblem has had a decently diverse set of characters for a while now, though there's of course room to improve on both fronts.

I've always wanted Doc Louis to be a fighter personally. Punch Out has a great cast of characters, and it probably makes more sense to include one of the opponent boxers, but I just like him and think he's funny. I think Doc Louis is really iconic in his own right and has a great personality, and I think it'd be funny to make a version of Little Mac who's even more ridiculously min-maxxed.

 

[Louie G.]

Off the Hook definitely on paper I think are great picks for that reason, they're popular and diverse characters with a very distinct personality and tap into that section of fandom. Though I do definitely struggle to imagine what their moveset could be like.

I've been imagining it as something similar to what Diddy and Dixie may have been, kind of a happy medium between a duo like the Ice Climbers and a stance change mechanic like Pyra and Mythra where both are always on stage but tag in to be the leader. Pearl takes the lead when aiming to deal in your face heavy damage, Marina takes the lead when it comes time for playing patient defense and set-up. Some attacks might involve them attacking together, others may be following up on the actions of the other. Maybe you can place a speaker onstage as Marina, and then blow it out and create an explosion in that radius with a big scream into the mic as Pearl.

My main desire with any sort of idol character would be that we get a music-centric kit, something that I feel Smash is glaringly missing given how big of a deal music is for Nintendo as a whole. There are plenty of viable characters for that role, but it's a big part of Splatoon and I think they have a good oppotunity right now. So I imagine them creatively utilizing musical equipment (your speakers, keytars, records and turntable...) or abstract soundwave / floating note attacks to some extent, but also rounding it out with their signature weapons. Pearl likes the dualies and Marina likes the splatbrella, and those are both pretty distinct weapons in the context of Smash that go unused by Inkling otherwise. Could play into some charming attacks working off their respective personalities, Pearl forcefully thrusting a rock hand symbol upward for an up smash or an up aerial, fun stuff like that. With such dynamic personalities and flashy designs the way they fight kind of ends up writing itself.

 

[Kalashnikov]

Discussion is about a Punch-Out fighter and... you guys still haven't mentioned Bald Bull? >_>

If a Punch-Out fighter is making it in, it's gotta be him. Other than King Hippo, he's the most iconic boxer by a mile.

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His whole schtick as a boxer with the Bull Charge (and generally being angry) also just lends itself naturally to a Smash moveset, and if you wanted to take the DLC approach he could even a special gimmick where he gets red with rage as he accumulates damage or something like that. And that's all just off the cuff; point being, you can do a lot with him while still staying within the bounds of a "realistic" Smash moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

Glass Joe would be a fun wtf rep lol haha.

 

[cashregister9]

Low key, if any franchise Nintendo has should get the next Fire Emblem or Pokemon treatment

Punch-out wouldn't be a bad one IMO

 

[Louie G.]

Okay, so if Doc Louis was going to be playable he has to at least have a really drawn out move / taunt where he takes out a chocolate bar. At that point he’s either going to eat it and regain slight health, or you can interrupt it at the expense of Doc receiving a Revenge-esque buff to his next move out of sheer rage.

He would also be a good opportunity to explore the Star Uppercut mechanic that Little Mac passed on in favor of the KO meter. So maybe there would be certain combos or just generally higher risk attacks where if you land a hit, you’re granted a star and can either dish that out immediately for an enhanced attack or let them stack up into an extremely powerful finisher…

I know I said I don’t particularly want Doc playable over the other boxers, but I’m kinda changing my mind on that as we speak. I’m still mostly rooting for him to have a more prominent supporting role but you can certainly get creative with him as a playable character too.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

I've been imagining it as something similar to what Diddy and Dixie may have been, kind of a happy medium between a duo like the Ice Climbers and a stance change mechanic like Pyra and Mythra. Pearl takes the lead when aiming to deal in your face heavy damage, Marina takes the lead when it comes time for playing patient defense and set-up. Some attacks might involve them attacking together, others may be following up on the actions of the other. Maybe you can place a speaker onstage as Marina, and then blow it out and create an explosion in that radius with a big scream into the mic as Pearl.

My main desire with any sort of idol character would be that we get a music-centric kit, something that I feel Smash is glaringly missing given how big of a deal music is for Nintendo as a whole. There are plenty of viable characters for that role, but it's a big part of Splatoon and I think they have a good oppotunity right now. So I imagine them creatively utilizing musical equipment (your speakers, keytars, records and turntable...) or abstract soundwave / floating note attacks to some extent, but also rounding it out with their signature weapons. Pearl likes the dualies and Marina likes the splatbrella, and those are both pretty distinct weapons in the context of Smash that go unused by Inkling otherwise. Could play into some charming attacks working off their respective personalities, Pearl forcefully thrusting a rock hand symbol upward for an up smash or an up aerial, fun stuff like that. With such dynamic personalities and flashy designs the way they fight kind of ends up writing itself.

I think the thing that more stands out to me is just that it's difficult for me to imagine them fighting in my head, it feels kinda weird. They don't ever fight in-game unless you count stuff like Octo Expansion's ending and they're not like so obviously non-combatants that it's funny for them to be fighting and allowing you to build their animations around that (like Isabelle, WFT, Duck Hunt, etc), so kind of a weird middle ground. Still, they do have canonical preferred weapons, and I'm sure if done well it wouldn't look weird if they were actually implemented.

I really like the idea of having a proper music based fighter though, that's something I've wanted for a while, it's always a fun distinct character archtype and I love music in general. I need the Lord Raptor/I-No/Haruko Harahara archetype in Smash. I could see something being built around using soundwaves as long projectile disjoints that move fast but have slow startup, with something like the Splatbrella being an anti-zoning tool.

Okay, so if Doc Louis was going to be playable he has to at least have a really drawn out move / taunt where he takes out a chocolate bar. At that point he’s either going to eat it and regain slight health, or you can interrupt it at the expense of Doc receiving a Revenge-esque buff to his next move out of sheer rage.

He would also be a good opportunity to explore the Star Uppercut mechanic that Little Mac passed on in favor of the KO meter. So maybe there would be certain combos or just generally higher risk attacks where if you land a hit, you’re granted a star and can either dish that out immediately for an enhanced attack or let them stack up into an extremely powerful finisher…

I know I said I don’t particularly want Doc playable over the other boxers, but I’m kinda changing my mind on that as we speak. I’m still mostly rooting for him to have a more prominent supporting role but you can certainly get creative with him as a playable character too.

Actually this makes me realise, Doc Louis absolutely needs to have this mechanic. The tiger-shirt is his Shin Akuma.

How to Shin Akuma pic.twitter.com/kg5eynTTky

— HiFight(ハイファイト) (@HiFightTH) May 22, 2024

 

[DarthEnderX]

His whole schtick as a boxer with the Bull Charge (and generally being angry) also just lends itself naturally to a Smash moveset

His schtick actually makes him perfect for an AT.

He gets summoned, starts charging up the Bull Charge, and when he charges, you either perfectly time an attack to send him flying, or you mistime it and get sent flying.

 

[Laniv]

Punch-Out!! having four characters (Little Mac, Doc Louis, Glass Joe, Mr. Sandman) is fairly unrealistic, but I'd gladly take it.

 

[Louie G.]

Ultimately I’m content with Little Mac representing Punch-Out on his own, because if we frame Smash as its own boxers circuit then every other character becomes the wacky opponent that Mac needs to overcome the odds against. I don’t think another new character would particularly ruin that essence, but I think it makes Punch-Out’s representation fairly efficient because you can play pretend you’re entering a new bout with iconic video game bosses and weirdos.

Little Mac and K. Rool is one of my favorite matchups, his belly armor is a classic Punch-Out esque quirk so it really feels like bringing over the formula into a new game format. I’m kinda convinced Sakurai took some pointers from King Hippo when constructing him.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Only played Punch Out NES, but I've always liked Great Tiger. He can use magic and teleport and even multiply himself if I remember correctly.

But for Smash I'd go with either Doc Louis since he's the main sidekick (and the retired, out of shape ex-champion that still kicks your ass is a fun archetype) or King Hippo because iconic boss.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Punch-Out!! having four characters (Little Mac, Doc Louis, Glass Joe, Mr. Sandman) is fairly unrealistic, but I'd gladly take it.

There's actually a bunch of characters in NES and SNES Punch-out that are straight up just headswaps of each other. So you could make an amalgamated moveset for them and make them alt costumes of each other.

Like Super Macho Man, Soda Popinski and Masked Muscle. Or Bald Bull and Mr. Sandman.

Ultimately I’m content with Little Mac representing Punch-Out on its own

I just NEED King Hippo to have some kind of in-game representation. I'd like him to be a Fighter. But I'd be satisfied with an AT or a Mii Brawler costume.

As long as Mother Brain gets to be a Boss, and Eggplant Wizard gets to be an AT or Mii Mage costume.

Then we can have an Event Match where you fight Mother Brain and she summons in King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard.

 

[Wonder Smash]

There's actually a bunch of characters in NES and SNES Punch-out that are straight up just headswaps of each other. So you could make an amalgamated moveset for them and make them alt costumes of each other.

Like Super Macho Man, Soda Popinski and Masked Muscle. Or Bald Bull and Mr. Sandman.

I just NEED King Hippo to have some kind of in-game representation. I'd like him to be a Fighter. But I'd be satisfied with an AT or a Mii Brawler costume.

As long as Mother Brain gets to be a Boss, and Eggplant Wizard gets to be an AT or Mii Mage costume.

Then we can have an Event Match where you fight Mother Brain and she summons in King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard.

To bring Captain N's enemies to Smash!

 

[Gorgonzales]

All this talk about Punch Out getting new characters while I'm just sitting here thinking Little Mac's current design is garbanzo and a rework of it should be prioritized over any new Punch Out characters they could add.

No seriously guys he's so bad, he barely functions in a platform fighter because of how polarizing his kit is. If the optimal way to fight someone is platform camp them, it's a failure of design and they really need to go back to the drawing board.

He doesn't even do a good job of representing Punch Out.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I know a lot of you guys want King Hippo as the second Punch-Out rep... but I think we might be sleeping on Mr. Sandman.

I'm not sorry.

I have one contender. Aran Ryan aka the cheater and an unfair boxer. He has horse shoes in his boxing gloves, has a makeshift rope with a boxing glove attached, and can headbutt. Also, the audience will boo at him if he KOs someone or wins.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Punch-Out!! getting a second rep is perfectly fine.
Smash Bros. is still a Nintendo All-Stars beat up the s*** out of each other first and foremost, so i honestly i have no objections if Sakurai decides to add more Nintendo character regardless who they are, i think all Nintendo characters belong here and are welcomed as fighters (except Pink Gold Peach).
If Sakurai thinks Glass Joe should be a fighter then let him add him.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I'm satisfied with Little Mac being the only rep for Punch-Out!!.

All this talk about Punch Out getting new characters while I'm just sitting here thinking Little Mac's current design is garbanzo and a rework of it should be prioritized over any new Punch Out characters they could add.

No seriously guys he's so bad, he barely functions in a platform fighter because of how polarizing his kit is. If the optimal way to fight someone is platform camp them, it's a failure of design and they really need to go back to the drawing board.

He doesn't even do a good job of representing Punch Out.

What do you mean he doesn't do a good job of representing Punch-Out!!?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I kinda feel like Punh doesnt really need a second character?


If it gets one cool but i think its fine to rep it with just Mac

 

[cashregister9]

All this talk about Punch Out getting new characters while I'm just sitting here thinking Little Mac's current design is garbanzo and a rework of it should be prioritized over any new Punch Out characters they could add.

No seriously guys he's so bad, he barely functions in a platform fighter because of how polarizing his kit is. If the optimal way to fight someone is platform camp them, it's a failure of design and they really need to go back to the drawing board.

He doesn't even do a good job of representing Punch Out.

Valid

Ignoring the design of his moveset, Little Mac even has the Shulk problem of being kinda ugly and doesn't really look like the character.