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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Momotsuki

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I'd prefer a port for reasons I've outlined many times (which, funnily enough, have little to nothing to do with the roster,) but I also am not at all opposed to a new game. I obviously don't actively want cuts - I can't imagine anyone does - but I'm more than willing to accept them if those resources are instead put into other interesting things. Modes and features being the big ones.
 
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Louie G.

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Smash, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing are in a "we don't know how to improve from here" right now, so it will be hard to convince people to buy a new game over a port.
I can tell you firsthand, there's a lot of improvement to be done after New Horizons. I know many people who would agree with me.

And Animal Crossing is a conceptually fluid series, New Horizon's gimmick was an island and New Leaf's was that you get to be the mayor. Before that you were a simple townsfolk. There have got to be other ways to experiment with the idea, and the series has not skirted away from doing so. Compared to Mario Kart or Smash Bros... well, those series are a lot more static. New Horizons is not nearly the same case where it feels like some culmination of the entire series. There are basic features still missing that were in older games, even after the post release updates.
 
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Zerp

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Hate to break it to you all but that Studio S thing has nothing to do with Smash. You see that "S" in Studio S? It actually stands for "Shaymin". They're named that because the studio exists for the sole purpose of creating Shaymin-centric games. You can trust me guys, I'm unbiased.

Getting Marx doesn't preclude modern Kirby representation in other areas.
I agree, but does Marx even preclude it from getting representation in the same area? Like, it's been 16 years since Kirby last got a character. Would two characters even be pushing it that far? At this point why would adding Marx necessarily stop someone not from Super Star getting in? Like, in any scenario where we get Marx, I'd expect him to not be alone. Granted, what I actually expect is a scenario where we get nothing from Kirby, as per usual lol.

Honestly, I don't think Marx would even have haters if it wasn't for how Kirby's content has been so focused on Super Star. Most of them just fear non-Sakurai content getting out-prioritized by Super Star for the ten quadrillionth time. I'd imagine people would change their tune on him if he came alongside someone else.
 
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Gorgonzales

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I wouldn't mind 24 all-new tracks being how they improve. Sure MK8D has almost 100 tracks thanks to the BCP, but most of them are from pre-8 games.
Agreed. The thing I don't like about the Booster Course Pass is that, to me at least, a lot of the new tracks feel like filler. There's an obvious drop in quality from base 8 in both visuals and gameplay, and all the track models are directly ripped from Tour.

They don't feel like the actual tracks brought back, they feel like very crude approximations of what they're supposed to be. Like someone was tasked with recreating them from memory. Sky Garden is the most egregious example of this; the layout and visuals are so different it's objectively not even the same track. The bloat is so bad that I unironically consider the presence of the BCP to bring down the rest of MK8DX due to how dissonant and inferior it is to the base game.

I'd rather have 24 very well-designed tracks to race on instead of 100 tracks ported from a different game (and also whatever the hell they were trying to accomplish with Sky High Sundae. Seriously, why do the railings boost you? That decision goes against base 8's very deliberate design choice to give spinboost-pillars distinct looks, it looks so wrong to me).

There's a lot of ways you can improve Mario Kart. People just tend to get caught up in quantity over quality.
 

dream1ng

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Smash, Mario Kart and Animal Crossing are in a "we don't know how to improve from here" right now, so it will be hard to convince people to buy a new game over a port.
Like, how they'll convince the general public to buy the next game if 10 characters are cut and one or two of them include characters like Sora or Sephiroth?
I would greatly prefer a Smash 6 over a port myself, but i'm in the minority.

Mario Kart has vocal fans that want a MK9, but most people i've seen are unsure how they'll improve from 8D same with Ultimate and New Horizons.
That's not how it works at all. Ports will almost never sell as well as new titles unless there's a massive disparity in the install bases of the systems.

Wherever you're getting this conclusions from... they're not correct. I mean it also seems like you're just assuming the mindsets of the dev teams.

And the assumption it would be hard to convince people to buy Mario Kart, Smash Bros and Animal Crossing... that is... just... frankly, absurd.

Or that it would be hard to sell a Smash Bros that only cuts 10 characters? I don't think you understand the ambivalence the GP has to losing one or two characters they might like against just not owning the new Smash Bros.

This is going to be blunt but... you really don't know what you're on about regarding the market or consumer habits. Or probably Nintendo's mindset.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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Hate to break it to you all but that Studio S thing has nothing to do with Smash. You see that "S" in Studio S? It actually stands for "Shaymin". They're named that because the studio exists for the sole purpose of creating Shaymin-centric games. You can trust me guys, I'm unbiased.
Nah, it's Studio Shadow to tie into Year of Shadow.
 

CannonStreak

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Hate to break it to you all but that Studio S thing has nothing to do with Smash. You see that "S" in Studio S? It actually stands for "Shaymin". They're named that because the studio exists for the sole purpose of creating Shaymin-centric games. You can trust me guys, I'm unbiased.
Very funny!

Still, gotta love Shaymin! That Pokemon is such a cute one!
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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I definitely would not remove Villager. They're the main character and absolutely deserves their place. Isabelle is an excellent secondary character and helps represent the series in full. Combined, they're perfect.

Anybody else is a great bonus, though I would love to see Isabelle have some changes to represent more stuff not seen yet in the series. There's also mechanics unseen too that could be fun, but we have Tom Nook, K.K. Slider, and Resetti who can all add something. Never mind more AT's.

...I also can't wait to see Mario Kart 10(Tour is the 9nth main game, after all). Hopefully a nice changeup from before. They've been doing a great job in making each main entry feels like its own beast for a long time now~
 
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Momotsuki

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Fighter-wise I think the Animal Crossing series is represented more than adequately, but I'd love to see the Resetti Assist Trophy come back. He's tied with Sable for my favorite character in the series.
 

TheQuester

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And the assumption it would be hard to convince people to buy Mario Kart, Smash Bros and Animal Crossing... that is... just... frankly, absurd.

Or that it would be hard to sell a Smash Bros that only cuts 10 characters?
I personally believe it will be hard to convince a big chunk of people to buy a new smash bros in that scenario, lots of people are not ready to move on from Ultimate yet if there's cuts.
Smash 6 will probably be as hated by Ultimate fans as much Brawl was hated by Melee fans if there's cuts.
 
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Guynamednelson

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lots of people are not ready to move on from Ultimate yet if there's cuts.
And lots of people won't see the point of moving on if the next Smash is barely different. And yes, it'll only be barely different from the original Ultimate. Updated rereleases aren't given the resources necessary for all the updates people think Ultimate Deluxe could have.
 

superprincess

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The average gamer isn’t as hung up on having the full roster as Smash fans are. They won’t mind if you cut a few fighters, just so long as the recognizable mainstays are still around and there’s some exciting new characters.

We’re the ones who get twitchy about this stuff :nifty:
Been saying this for a while. The average buyer of Ultimate wouldn't give a single thought about characters being cut. If the game has new features, new characters, and better visuals... people will be interested.
Listen I love Mario Kart 8 and all but I've been playing it for almost 10 years now. We've been playing it since the god damn Wii U days man.

I'm ready for Mario Kart 9 like yesterday.
I don't know where that guy got "people want MK8 again" from, because every single person I've talked to that's remotely familiar with the series wants Mario Kart 8 to be buried for good once the Switch era's over. We're so ready for something new. And the general public will buy Mario Kart no matter what, it always sells amazingly no matter which console it's on. The BCP barely even made a difference to the average consumer because the average consumer didn't buy it.
I definitely would not remove Villager. They're the main character and absolutely deserves their place. Isabelle is an excellent secondary character and helps represent the series in full. Combined, they're perfect.

Anybody else is a great bonus, though I would love to see Isabelle have some changes to represent more stuff not seen yet in the series. There's also mechanics unseen too that could be fun, but we have Tom Nook, K.K. Slider, and Resetti who can all add something. Never mind more AT's.

...I also can't wait to see Mario Kart 10(Tour is the 9nth main game, after all). Hopefully a nice changeup from before. They've been doing a great job in making each main entry feels like its own beast for a long time now~
People who say Villager isn't their own character are tripping because last time I checked they're featured alongside Isabelle in the Nintendo NYC group artwork. Also got into Mario Kart. Nintendo absolutely markets them as their own thing; "Villager" may have originated from SSB, but the AC Player Character is still an iconic entity in gaming.

Also, when it comes to crossovers, I think people prefer having characters they're familiar with in terms of gameplay. People play as "Villager" in AC and are familiar with what they do. Isabelle and Nook are NPCs so it's more up in the air as to how they'd fight.
Fighter-wise I think the Animal Crossing series is represented more than adequately, but I'd love to see the Resetti Assist Trophy come back. He's tied with Sable for my favorite character in the series.
Nah, AC could use another fighter, as well as making Isabelle more unique. There's so many items and interactions in Animal Crossing that Villager and Isabelle in Smash don't even represent. As for the Resetti AT, it's unfortunately never happening. He's been successfully wiped out of the series, at least in the role that his AT represented.
I personally believe it will be hard to convince a big chunk of people to buy a new smash bros in that scenario, lots of people are not ready to move on from Ultimate yet if there's cuts.
Smash 6 will probably be as hated by Ultimate fans as much Brawl was hated by Melee fans if there's cuts.
No one cares about cuts as much as we do... I'd be upset if Palutena was cut but the average person wouldn't even realize she was missing. Y'all need to let go of the mindset that everybody in the world and in Nintendo's playerbase cares about everyone coming back. The last sentence in your post is especially funny because Brawl is still very fondly remembered despite the backlash from Melee players; and the two situations aren't even comparable. Brawl had objective gameplay flaws and balance issues. Smash 6 potentially having a smaller roster isn't exclusively bad.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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I'd say Mario Kart has plenty of interesting potential directions (bringing back Double Dash mechanics, single player stuff like Mission mode or a Diddy Kong Racing esque Adventure mode, more Nintendo crossover characters/tracks), it's just a matter of whether or not Nintendo decides to rock the boat after the incredible success of 8 Deluxe.
 
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Zerp

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Ngl, even as someone who adores 8 Deluxe, it's not flawless. It absolutely can be improved upon in ways that aren't just "Add more content". It's the biggest (official!) Mario Kart game, but also has the most filler aside from Super + Super Circuit. It's the most balanced game too, yet the vehicle combinations unfortunately feel way samier than Wii's cast of vehicles. And that's a huge shame really, playing stuff like the quacker or magikruiser in Wii feels almost like an entire new experience, while in 8 deviating from the meta feels like "Wow, this build is Character+Teddy/Biddy/Yoshi Bike but slightly/way worse!". Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic game, but it's not perfect either.

And of course, there's always new gimmicks they can add. 8 had anti-grav, 7 had gliding/swimming, Wii added bikes, etc. Mario Kart is far from exhausting every possibility.

I personally believe it will be hard to convince a big chunk of people to buy a new smash bros in that scenario, lots of people are not ready to move on from Ultimate yet if there's cuts.
Smash 6 will probably be as hated by Ultimate fans as much Brawl was hated by Melee fans if there's cuts.
I think the base that will refuse to buy the game over one or two characters is a tad too hardcore to really alter sales. Like, at that point, those people would be hardcore enough that mods would likely make a difference. And I really don't think we'd have many people waiting for the inevitable "Project U" mod uncutting everyone to buy it.
 
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SPEN18

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I agree, but does Marx even preclude it from getting representation in the same area? Like, it's been 16 years since Kirby last got a character. Would two characters even be pushing it that far? At this point why would adding Marx necessarily stop someone not from Super Star getting in? Like, in any scenario where we get Marx, I'd expect him to not be alone. Granted, what I actually expect is a scenario where we get nothing from Kirby, as per usual lol.

Honestly, I don't think Marx would even have haters if it wasn't for how Kirby's content has been so focused on Super Star. Most of them just fear non-Sakurai content getting out-prioritized by Super Star for the ten quadrillionth time. I'd imagine people would change their tune on him if he came alongside someone else.
You're absolutely right that getting Marx wouldn't necessarily stop us from getting someone else, too. We did get MK and Dedede in the same game, after all, though that was a long time ago and those were pretty huge characters not already in at the time. I think a lot of the Kirby fanbase is just hoping we get somebody at all, and due to a lot of first party series being on the docket for expansion my default expectation is that we would only get one character this particular go-round. But it would be awesome to get Dee+Marx, Dee+Magolor, or etc.

And yeah I think most of the hate is on Super Star generally rather than Marx himself (and really not even on Super Star itself but rather what Super Star gets), which is all the more reason not to arbitrarily punish a character that, considered in a vacuum, people generally like.
 

Laniv

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After Tom Nook, it's... what, K.K. Slider? as another Animal Crossing character? Fighting with music and a guitar seems novel. Maybe Redd as a Nook echo??

Since we're on the topic of Animal Crossing-



Mr. Resetti needs a new gig after losing his old job.
Is he the best choice for an AC rep? No, that'd be Nook. But he'd be funny, and could possibly bring in a digging mechanic which would be interesting to see.
I feel bad for Resetti because both in-universe and in the real world, the guy got the worst of it.

Sidelined in New Leaf because he scared younger players, lost his job in New Horizons, didn't even make a physical appearance in that game until the update, removed as an Assist Trophy in Smash 4 (possibly asba result of the scaring-kids thing)... Guy has it rough. Sucks, cause he's one of my favorite AC characters.
 

Momotsuki

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A few years ago people were talking about Nightmare from Soul Caliber and my dumb ass thought they were talking about Nightmare from the Kirby series and as a result I started thinking about Nightmare Wizard as a fighter and the more I thought about it the more I realized how cool he'd be and how fun he could be to play.

To whom it may concern, I'm aware this is not a character likely to be chosen. Saying a character would make a neat fighter is not an invitation to explain why that character's odds of inclusion are low. I already know that.
 
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Noipoi

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A few years ago people were talking about Nightmare from Soul Caliber and my dumb ass thought they were talking about Nightmare from the Kirby series and as a result I started thinking about Nightmare Wizard as a fighter and the more I thought about it the more I realized how cool he'd be and how fun he could be to play.

To whom it may concern, I'm aware this is not a character likely to be chosen. Saying a character would make a neat fighter is not an invitation to explain why that character's odds of inclusion are low.
No, this Nightmare

 

SPEN18

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After Nook, yeah, it probably then goes to KK Slider. Who would be great to get.

I love Resetti, too. He's not in the best position right now but he's pretty iconic within the series and, for what it's worth, would probably have one of the most hilarious and fun movesets out of any AC character. The fact that he has a pickaxe, an obvious (and fairly unique) weapon that can help fill out his moveset, is also a boon that might help ease his realization.
 

Momotsuki

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One really weird and out-there idea I had for Nightmare Wizard was him taking very little knockback that doesn't scale with percentage (but still taking hitstun,) and using stamina in place of % even in non-stamina matches, having 150 HP. He'd be a very large character who, rather than having traditional jumps, can just navigate both axis with the control stick (though with limits to how far he can go per-stage to prevent camping.) Having a variety of attacks like shooting star projectiles from his fingertips and other things inspired not just from Kirby's Adventure, but Super Kirby Clash as well.

I know this is a really weird idea that would almost certainly have a bajillion problems in practice, but yeah.

Oh, and we could get this banger:
 
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Noipoi

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[Breathe in]
You will not be spared...
[Breathe in]
You will not be saved...
IMG_8621.jpeg




Ah, it seems that you have met your end. Ah, what a pity. You know I, I don’t feel too bad about it though, after all if it weren’t me, it would’ve just been one of the others I guess…
I’m honestly just glad to be out of those air ducts. You know it’s… it’s not easy for a hippopotamus to fit up there… and… not easy to get down either. I’m not as young as I used to be as you can see, I used to be able to do all sorts of things, you’re young, you’re vibrant, you have that sort of pep in your step. Ah, it reminds me of a conversation I was having with one of my good friends Orville. We were having a nice picnic one day. I believe it was summer? Oh, perhaps it was… was it the fall? Yes, yes, it was the fall because the leaves had turned already. But I said to Orville, I- I says, “Orville, I have a story to tell you.” And Orville looked at me, you know, kind of odd and- and said, “Well what’s it about?” I- I said to him, “Not every story has to be about something Orville. Sometimes a person just wants to talk, why does it have to be a story?” I said to him. He just looked at me and he said, “Well y-y-you said you had a story.” You know, he was quite right, I did in fact. I told him I had a story. I suppose if a person just wants to talk, it’s best to not announce that you’re tellin’ a story. Tellin’ a story does come with its own pressures and expectations I- I suppose. After all, if you’re just talking to a friend then, there’s no more expectations then if you were talking into the wind. Words… by themselves are not expected to carry… aren’t expected to stick. But if, you know if you announce that you’re tellin’ a story well then… there better be a point to it all. No one wants to sit and listen to someone ramble on and on and on with absolutely no end in sight. So, you know, it’s- it’s good to be mindful that when you tell someone that you’re about to tell a story, that you have something to say. Tellin’ someone that you’re gonna tell a story is tantamount to asking them to stop what they’re doing, and pay attention. You’re basically saying “hey, hey, hey buddy, stop everything, stop what you’re thinking, I have a solution to everything.” And well, I didn’t really have any story to tell. In- in hindsight I probably just misspoke when I said that I had a story. I think it would’ve just been better to tell Orville that I had something to tell him rather than tell him that I had a story, but you know e- even then it might’ve put too much importance on the whole thing. Either way it was quite a nice day. I remember, I remember that we were drinking tea.
 

GoldenYuiitusin

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View attachment 388093



Ah, it seems that you have met your end. Ah, what a pity. You know I, I don’t feel too bad about it though, after all if it weren’t me, it would’ve just been one of the others I guess…
I’m honestly just glad to be out of those air ducts. You know it’s… it’s not easy for a hippopotamus to fit up there… and… not easy to get down either. I’m not as young as I used to be as you can see, I used to be able to do all sorts of things, you’re young, you’re vibrant, you have that sort of pep in your step. Ah, it reminds me of a conversation I was having with one of my good friends Orville. We were having a nice picnic one day. I believe it was summer? Oh, perhaps it was… was it the fall? Yes, yes, it was the fall because the leaves had turned already. But I said to Orville, I- I says, “Orville, I have a story to tell you.” And Orville looked at me, you know, kind of odd and- and said, “Well what’s it about?” I- I said to him, “Not every story has to be about something Orville. Sometimes a person just wants to talk, why does it have to be a story?” I said to him. He just looked at me and he said, “Well y-y-you said you had a story.” You know, he was quite right, I did in fact. I told him I had a story. I suppose if a person just wants to talk, it’s best to not announce that you’re tellin’ a story. Tellin’ a story does come with its own pressures and expectations I- I suppose. After all, if you’re just talking to a friend then, there’s no more expectations then if you were talking into the wind. Words… by themselves are not expected to carry… aren’t expected to stick. But if, you know if you announce that you’re tellin’ a story well then… there better be a point to it all. No one wants to sit and listen to someone ramble on and on and on with absolutely no end in sight. So, you know, it’s- it’s good to be mindful that when you tell someone that you’re about to tell a story, that you have something to say. Tellin’ someone that you’re gonna tell a story is tantamount to asking them to stop what they’re doing, and pay attention. You’re basically saying “hey, hey, hey buddy, stop everything, stop what you’re thinking, I have a solution to everything.” And well, I didn’t really have any story to tell. In- in hindsight I probably just misspoke when I said that I had a story. I think it would’ve just been better to tell Orville that I had something to tell him rather than tell him that I had a story, but you know e- even then it might’ve put too much importance on the whole thing. Either way it was quite a nice day. I remember, I remember that we were drinking tea.
Not going to lie, Mr. Hippo put me through an Arnold Palmer phase.
 

Ivander

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And of course, there's always new gimmicks they can add. 8 had anti-grav, 7 had gliding/swimming, Wii added bikes, etc. Mario Kart is far from exhausting every possibility.
More bigger Stage and track changes while racing, an open world mode, Monster trucks, hyperspeed moments, character changing on the drive, new vehicle types, yep, still quite a bunch of things Mario Kart can do...
6c02.png

Even if some of the possibilities are frowned upon by some...
 

Gorgonzales

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More bigger Stage and track changes while racing, an open world mode, Monster trucks, hyperspeed moments, character changing on the drive, new vehicle types, yep, still quite a bunch of things Mario Kart can do...
View attachment 388094
Even if some of the possibilities are frowned upon by some...
At this point I really just want the next "gimmick" to be a well-thought-out mechanic that rewards skilled play in some way. Something like earning tickets mid-race by doing risky things so you can re-roll your items / get a special item / whatever.

I feel that the spectacle that can be achieved through gliding, underwater driving, and antigrav has been pushed as far as it can really go. We don't need drills or another environment-based gimmick, just give me something to make the gameplay loop more exciting / rewarding.

And for the record I'm fine with guest characters as long as they're in the minority. If you want Smash Kart, make it its own unique vehicle-battler game instead of trying to rebrand Mario Kart as it. I'm not willing to give up Wiggler for even big-name characters like Kirby, because a lot of the appeal of Mario spinoffs is getting to play as wacky Mario characters.
 
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Golden Icarus

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And for the record I'm fine with guest characters as long as they're in the minority. If you want Smash Kart, make it its own unique vehicle-battler game instead of trying to rebrand Mario Kart as it. I'm not willing to give up Wiggler for even big-name characters like Kirby, because a lot of the appeal of Mario spinoffs is getting to play as wacky Mario characters.
100%. I’m personally hoping for E. Gadd and the Tostarenans from Odyssey.
IMG_6123.jpeg

These guys rule.
 
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