Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[CannonStreak]

A bit of a sad question but do you think Toriyama’s passing will negatively affect the chances of seeing one of his characters either returning to or joining Smash? I’d understand if they didn’t want to include anything out of respect but it could potentially be seen as another way to honor his legacy. I don’t mean any disrespect it’s just something I’m curious about.

Maybe Goku, even if he is not allowed in Smash.

Seriously, I am not sure on that. If those video game characters he took part in making are owned by different companies, maybe not. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Louie G.]

A bit of a sad question but do you think Toriyama’s passing will negatively affect the chances of seeing one of his characters either returning to or joining Smash? I’d understand if they didn’t want to include anything out of respect but it could potentially be seen as another way to honor his legacy. I don’t mean any disrespect it’s just something I’m curious about.

I don't think that's disrespectful to ask. It was clearly a big deal for everyone to work with Dragon Quest and honor his work even while he was alive. Toriyama's influence is so persistent across the gaming landscape and important to so many Japanese creatives that I would believe they'd love to have Hero back on the roster if they can help it. I hesitate to say he would take precedent over Cloud but it's difficult to imagine them never returning to Dragon Quest, with it being such a massive cultural phenomenon in Japan even withstanding the Toriyama connection.

To answer your question though, I don't think it will have any negative effect. I would bet Toriyama is neither the first or last late, prestigious artist whose creations are / will be documented in Smash. Excluding a character for that reason would be antithetical to celebrating their rich legacy, unless it was a dying wish to retire a series or character wholesale after the fact. I'm sure, at the very least, Dragon Quest will not be stopping especially soon and I doubt Dragon Ball will stop putting out new series and movies either. But I can't imagine he was intimately involved with every single component of those series to begin with, so not much would change on that front.

 

[DarthEnderX]

A bit of a sad question but do you think Toriyama’s passing will negatively affect the chances of seeing one of his characters either returning to or joining Smash?

No. Not unless his estate decides to be butthole. And even then, it depends if Toriyama even owned the rights to his SE work, or if it was work for hire.

 

[ninjahmos]

I kinda would like to see Chun-Li get into Smash. Her rapid jab could be Hyakuretsukyaku, her Neutral B could be Kikoken, her Side+B could be Spinning Bird Kick, her Up+B could be Tenshokyaku and, like Ryu & Ken, her Down+B could be her Focus Attack. They'd need to add in the motion inputs as well.

One of her two Final Smashes should be Kikosho.

Oh, and I'd definitely love to hear a Smash remix of her theme.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Wouldn't Space invaders be very similar to the Galaga items either way? I could be wrong because I know next to nothing about those franchise, but personally if he have Taito representation I'd rather see Bubble and Booble or Arkanoid as an Assist trophies.

 

[Gengar84]

I kinda would like to see Chun-Li get into Smash. Her rapid jab could be Hyakuretsukyaku, her Neutral B could be Kikoken, her Side+B could be Spinning Bird Kick, her Up+B could be Tenshokyaku and, like Ryu & Ken, her Down+B could be her Focus Attack. They'd need to add in the motion inputs as well.

Oh, and I'd definitely love to hear a Smash remix of her theme.

She’s definitely earned the spot for sure. If im being biased, I’ve always preferred Guile and Vega as they’re my favorite Street Fighter characters. Juri Han is another fun option to represent the more modern side of the series. No complaints if we get Chun-Li instead though as she’s pretty iconic in gaming.

 

[DarthEnderX]

She’s definitely earned the spot for sure. If im being biased, I’ve always preferred Guile and Vega as they’re my favorite Street Fighter characters. Juri Han is another fun option to represent the more modern side of the series. No complaints if we get Chun-Li instead though as she’s pretty iconic in gaming.

In terms of characters that should added to Smash, I'd say the top 3 are:
Chun Li
Bison
Juri

 

[chocolatejr9]

No. Not unless his estate decides to be butthole. And even then, it depends if Toriyama even owned the rights to his SE work, or if it was work for hire.

That's a good question, actually: DID Toriyama own the rights to his SE work? I know there was some stuff with the DQ composer, and the stuff related to FF is well documented by this point, but what about Toriyama's stuff?

 

[Sucumbio]

Why? I have played as Smash and other fighting games is either as average or hard and they aren't as well-liked here versus other series is mean't or meaning? I had playing MLBB and is got my Mythic ranks. I explain Honkai and Genshin to well-liked other versus other series?
I since Genshin and Honkai fans.

Gatcha Games are sad face I guess?

 

[Momotsuki]

Chun-Li definitely feels like the most obvious choice for a third Street Fighter rep, but Street Fighter is one of those series where there's more than enough interesting material to justify some left-field choices. Either way, Chun-Li definitely feels like one of those characters nobody would or could really complain about!

 

[Perkilator]

For Chun-Li, I was thinking of a more intersting idea: being able to choose your Final Smash, like you can with Super Arts in 3rd Strike.I was thinking that before a match, a Chun-Li player could choose one of three Final Smashes:

• Senretsukyaku
• Kikosho
• Shichisei Senkukyaku

Of course, for simplicity's sake, the Move List would probably have to shorten the name of the Final Smash to just "Super Arts".

 

[SpecterFlower]

I think smash has sold way too much with ultimate to be Nintendo’s weird crossover series anymore tbh.

 

[Perkilator]

I think smash has sold way too much with ultimate to be Nintendo’s weird crossover series anymore tbh.

What does that mean?

 

[Louie G.]

I think smash has sold way too much with ultimate to be Nintendo’s weird crossover series anymore tbh.

I highly disagree, Smash can sell plenty of copies off its own namesake and it will kinda always be Nintendo’s weird crossover series, but I do think some people downplay how important third parties are now. These big collaborations have become a definitive part of Smash’s identity for a decade now and it will be hard for some people to adjust to a return to form.

I do still think DLC is its own beast, and is where most of the major new stuff will happen. The base roster / newcomers will consist mainly of Nintendo characters like always, but I don’t think they will be as conservative with guests and partners are some fear they might be. And third party newcomer potential is still plentiful, with several companies being generous mainstays by now. I think there’s a strong possibility every company is back to play ball in one way or another.

But Smash is not “too big” to be wacky and unpredictable again - if anything, and as its always operated, big names are a good hook for general audiences and smaller characters can be added as supplement to experiment and introduce them to new faces. That’s how Smash has played out even prior to Ultimate’s blowout success. It’s not as if the series was ever small.

 

[Momotsuki]

Outside of edge-case situations like Piranha Plant (who was given away to early buyers and likely planned for the base game) I do think the more out-there picks are going to be strictly the domain of base-game roster decisions rather than DLC. Nobody's going to refuse to buy a game they otherwise would because a weird "literally who?" is in it, but they probably won't go out of their way to buy access to them.

In a way, it makes the base game hype cycle uniquely interesting, since individual character inclusions aren't as risky and can be more out-there than DLC can afford to risk being.

 

[SPEN18]

I think smash has sold way too much with ultimate to be Nintendo’s weird crossover series anymore tbh.

Even though it did all those sales with >85% of the base roster being first-party?
Even though the audience they're selling it to is people on their platform playing their games?

Regardless, it would take a crazy lot for Smash to not be "Nintendo's weird crossover series" anymore. The amount of cuts and third party additions it would take for Smash not to have a significant Nintendo skew would be pretty massive.

 

[UserKev]

Gatcha Games are sad face I guess?

Any discussion regarding opening character support threads again for next Smash? There's really nothing else to do on the boards.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Piranha Plant (who was given away to early buyers and likely planned for the base game)

Time to repeat what I said on the subject months ago.

Gonna jump on this and say there actually isn't legitimate evidence for this.

We can reasonably deduce that the decision for Plant came well before the Fighters Pass, but it's much more likely Plant always was meant to be a pre-order bonus and was being worked on after the base roster was complete.

If Plant was meant to be available on release but had to be "held back" because it couldn't be finished in time, Plant would just have been a free update for everyone, not free for a limited time with a code and then paid DLC. That goes against Sakurai's design philosophy in not charging for unfinished content, which he criticises other game developers for doing and calls a "scam".

Sakurai on DLC: “It’s All About Making Players Happy”

Here’s a full translation of Based Sakurai’s latest article in this month’s Famitsu. He talks about DLC in Sm4sh, offering a little insight into how it came to be and what he and …

sourcegaming.info

And that's not even getting to the amiibo coding.

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

Any discussion regarding opening character support threads again for next Smash? There's really nothing else to do on the boards.

Gatcha Games are sad face I guess?

I have answered by my fellow members.
I gacha and mobile games according to Wikipedia and Tv Tropes.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GachaGames

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MobilePhoneGame

List of gacha games - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Some Australia, China, South Korea, New Zealand, Vietnam, Singapore, Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia and Asia-Pacific countries gacha and mobile games with other games also crossover with other games outside Smash. Such as AFK Arena crossover with Joker and Makoto from Persona 5 and other games and medias, 2B collab with Goddess of Victory NIKKE, Some MOBAs game collab with SNK, Honkai Impact 3rd has Asuka and another miHoYo characters (which is Fischl) and Jetpack Joyride had with Metal Slug crossovers!

I had seriously or busy with my schedules games and others!

 

[Sucumbio]

Any discussion regarding opening character support threads again for next Smash? There's really nothing else to do on the boards.

Nah. I am pretty sure we'll circle back once we get actual news of a new console release date which I'm guessing will be by this fall so maybe starting in 25 we can have fan support threads.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Even though it did all those sales with >85% of the base roster being first-party?

The best selling game in the franchise was the one with the lowest % of first-party characters...

In fact, Smash sales have only continued to increase the more 3rd-party characters it's added.
Brawl - 2 characters - 13 million
Smash 4 - 5 characters - 15 million
Ultimate - 9 characters - 33 million

 

[Louie G.]

In fact, Smash sales have only continued to increase the more 3rd-party characters it's added.

This is kind of a dishonest statistic because for starters, both Smash 4 releases individually did not reach the success of Brawl. So this is already just demonstrably not true. Secondly, it makes perfect sense for Brawl and Smash Ultimate to simply sell the best because they were on the best selling hardware following underperforming consoles. This likely had very little to do with the rosters. Even if the next Smash doubles its third party characters on base roster, it's unlikely to topple Ultimate unless Nintendo can strike gold twice and the new console somehow out performs its predecessor. If the next console is in fact a direct successor to the Switch, that is statistically unlikely.

If we want to judge 3DS and Wii U's sales collectively, then it barely edges Brawl out. But I don't think that's fair, because there's no doubt many of the same people who bought one version of this game bought the other as well. It's hard to properly gauge that, but I don't think it's a stretch to say it extends to at least a couple million people.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

The best selling game in the franchise was the one with the lowest % of first-party characters...

In fact, Smash sales have only continued to increase the more 3rd-party characters it's added.
Brawl - 2 characters - 13 million
Smash 4 - 5 characters - 15 million
Ultimate - 9 characters - 33 million

Sales numbers with no correlation with Third-Party count. The fact you had to combined both Wii U and 3DS sales for that Smash 4 numbers speak volumes.

Pretty sure the increase in Sales numbers is due to the increase of the system's install base those systems launched on

 

[Noipoi]

Oh Christ, we’re arguing sales figures now…

 

[Guynamednelson]

This is kind of a dishonest statistic because for starters, both Smash 4 releases individually did not reach the success of Brawl. So this is already just demonstrably not true. Secondly, it makes perfect sense for Brawl and Smash Ultimate to simply sell the best because they were on the best selling hardware following underperforming consoles. This likely had very little to do with the rosters. Even if the next Smash doubles its third party characters on base roster, it's unlikely to topple Ultimate unless Nintendo can strike gold twice and the new console somehow out performs its predecessor. If the next console is in fact a direct successor to the Switch, that is statistically unlikely.

Just look at Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. It barely added anything to MK8's DLC's crossover content, let alone any new content in general before the Booster Course Pass, and it was still able to outsell MK Wii before the BCP was announced, solely by the Switch outselling the Wii.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Anyways, on other matter: Speaking of Smash 4 on Wii U and 3DS

The Nintendo Network has officialy been closed for good. Free Online will now never exist on a Nintendo Platform. End of an Era.

Wished my copy of Splatoon 1 and Smash 3DS didn't crash on me though.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Gatcha Games are sad face I guess?

if its genshin

its a dollar sign face.

the second coming of steve

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I think splitting up Smash 4 into two separate versions, one being the traditional home console while the other was portable (with version exclusives, no less) also made the game a harder sell for some people. Smash had never done anything like that before and whether or not the split into two versions was even executed well is still a subject of debate today.

The Wii U underperforming certainly didn't help either, though, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of those were the main factors for why the game(s?) didn't sell as well as either it's predecessor or successor (even if both versions of the game did still sell fairly well overall).

 

[SpecterFlower]

Sales numbers with no correlation with Third-Party count. The fact you had to combined both Wii U and 3DS sales for that Smash 4 numbers speak volumes.

Pretty sure the increase in Sales numbers is due to the increase of the system's install base those systems launched on

no they don't but more 3rd parties is more marketing and more appealing to people who havent played smash.

thats the value of third parties.

it isnt as simple as 3rd party = sales

but 3rd party's dont not equal sales, its just more nuanced

 

[CannonStreak]

I think splitting up Smash 4 into two separate versions, one being the traditional home console while the other was portable (with version exclusives, no less) also made the game a harder to sell for some people. Smash had never done anything like that before and whether or not the split into two versions was even executed well is still a subject of debate today.

The Wii U underperforming certainly didn't help either, though, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of those were the main factors for why the game(s?) didn't sell as well as either it's predecessor or successor (even if both versions of the game did still sell fairly well overall).

Huh, I guess the splitting of two versions was a bad move that negatively and partially affected the Wii U's sales in particular. Key word, partially. I am not sure about the 3DS as it sold more copies than the Wii U if I recall correctly, but I can see that the 3DS can be affected, too.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Even though it did all those sales with >85% of the base roster being first-party?
Even though the audience they're selling it to is people on their platform playing their games?

Regardless, it would take a crazy lot for Smash to not be "Nintendo's weird crossover series" anymore. The amount of cuts and third party additions it would take for Smash not to have a significant Nintendo skew would be pretty massive.

thats not what i was arguing.

other companies aren't going ot be, "you have to agree to my outrageous deal" anymore like cloud with square enix.

if smash didnt sell ridiculously well there would be no sephiroth with tons of music.
or fighters pass 2 in general.

now they're are going to openly beg.

essentially, negotiations aren't a problem anymore now that Nintendo has the dominant position, previously and especially during smash 4, all of the other companies were the ones calling the shots and the deal, they were blessing smash with their franchise not the other way around.

walls have been broken, any character is possible. they were not in that position during any other smash.

 

[Truth the Ceomasterz33]

If its Genshin

Its a dollar sign face.

The second coming of Steve

Oh noes! again. Why is SpecterFlower ?

 

[Louie G.]

essentially, negotiations aren't a problem anymore now that Nintendo has the dominant position, previously and especially during smash 4, all of the other companies were the ones calling the shots and the deal, they were blessing smash with their franchise not the other way around.

walls have been broken, any character is possible. they were not in that position during any other smash.

Not for nothing, but the first third party ever put in Smash was a result of Kojima personally asking Sakurai to include Snake. Other notable companies such as Ubisoft and to a smaller degree Wayforward did quite a lot of kissing Nintendo's feet trying to get their characters in the game as early as Smash 4.

It was always considered an honor to get your character in Smash Bros, ever since Snake and Sonic hit the scene. I don't really think Nintendo is in any higher position right now than they were nearly a decade ago, when Smash was already considered a groundbreaking crossover that just added Cloud Strife.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I think splitting up Smash 4 into two separate versions, one being the traditional home console while the other was portable (with version exclusives, no less) also made the game a harder sell for some people. Smash had never done anything like that before and whether or not the split into two versions was even executed well is still a subject of debate today.

The Wii U underperforming certainly didn't help either, though, but I wouldn't be surprised if both of those were the main factors for why the game(s?) didn't sell as well as either it's predecessor or successor (even if both versions of the game did still sell fairly well overall).

[Insert Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku (Mexican Spanish Dub) Here]

 

[SpecterFlower]

Oh noes! again. Why is SpecterFlower ?

I am because my parents made me

Not for nothing, but the first third party ever put in Smash was a result of Kojima personally asking Sakurai to include Snake. Other notable companies such as Ubisoft and to a smaller degree Wayforward did quite a lot of kissing Nintendo's feet trying to get their characters in the game as early as Smash 4.

It was always considered an honor to get your character in Smash Bros, ever since Snake and Sonic hit the scene. I don't really think Nintendo is in any higher position right now than they were a decade ago, when Smash was already considered a groundbreaking crossover that just added Cloud Strife.

Kojimas son,

either way theres 20 million reasons why nintendo is on a higher position.the switch is going to become the best selling console of all time, no publisher can even come close to how many games they sell that was not the case during the wii era. during the wii yeah the wii was big but the games didnt sell like crazy or any better than they usually would just a small boost above the norm, with the wii casual games hitting it big.
and thats ignoring the wii u, which damaged relations so much. its still why Yakuza avoids Nintendo because of how bad that bridge burned.

they are in a much higher positon than they were during the wii, during the wii they were successful among other companies. during the switch they monopolized a whole country and outsell everything else with 0 competition. i'd rather not bring out chart sources so im going to end buisness sales talk here.


either way it seems Nintendo proper values 3rd party characters, not only does it add a fan fave, make both parties money but also improves business relations.

furthermore business like money, and with dlc, square sees dollar signs with smash and any other company worth their salt should.

you also need to factor in social media, smash reveal get so much more eyes than just smash and X game fans, you essentially get the whole gaming industry to stop and look which was massive for some games like fatal fury.

its both an honour but also to nintendos advantage nowadays, times have changed since metal gear and sonic, and smash 4's dlc was the first sign of it. its not something this series can go back from, sakurai has choice but nintedos still gonna tell him, his options. the only dlc character that really didnt fit into any agenda at the time was banjo kazzoie, and even that was likely around the time fp2 was finalized and was a deal also including steve but thats just a theory.

 

[Stratos]

Some like me want a new Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot for the next Super Smash Bros. game, but on the other hand it might be better if Masahiro Sakurai chooses the video game characters to bring to future Super Smash Bros. games.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

if its genshin

its a dollar sign face.

the second coming of steve

Not even remotely close.

 

[CannonStreak]

Some like me want a new Smash Bros. Fighter Ballot for the next Super Smash Bros. game, but on the other hand it might be better if Masahiro Sakurai chooses the video game characters to bring to future Super Smash Bros. games.

I'd go with a ballot one more time if it means getting Geno in, or Rayman. Those are all I would ever need from such a ballot.

 

[DarthEnderX]

This is kind of a dishonest statistic

Probably. But so is "Even though it did all those sales with >85% of the base roster being first-party?"

I'm responding to specious reasoning with specious reasoning.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I'd go with a ballot one more time if it means getting Geno in, or Rayman. Those are all I would ever need from such a ballot.

geno is the only character i think is a lock

not only does square talk to nintendo now,
not only because mario rpg came back and sold 3.3 million in almost no time at all
but because hes also a fan fave, one of the last left.

3 major reasons.