Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Schnee117]

I admit my reply was sarcastic and not meant to be taken seriously but I genuinely don't understand why being number 1000 would matter when other significant numbers of Pokemon didn't get preferential treatment either

Ask Game Freak, they're the ones that made a big deal out of Pokemon 1000 and not 500 (Emboar lmao) or 750 (Mudsdale).

 

[HyperSomari64]

Guess we should rally behind Honey Queen for officially being the 30th Mario Kart character. Pretty big achievement for a series that only started with 8, no?

I'm the one who will rally.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Balancing around appearance is part of balancing for a fighting game.

Except that fighting games subvert it constantly. Acrofatic is a pretty common fighting game trope. Like Tekken's Bob or Street Fighter's Rufus.

Ask Game Freak, they're the ones that made a big deal out of Pokemon 1000 and not 500 (Emboar lmao) or 750 (Mudsdale).

I mean, adding additional digit is a pretty big deal. Hasn't happened since Gen 1.

 

[cashregister9]

I want Gholdengo because they are a silly string cheese person with a Skateboard. Having them be fighter 100 would just be funny but like it isn't a requirement or anything.

Ogerpon and Iron Valiant are my 2 and 3

 

[Gengar84]

Haven't played the game because I refuse to play Pokemon but if I had to choose one it'd be Spidops so hi, you're not alone.


I admit my reply was sarcastic and not meant to be taken seriously but I genuinely don't understand why being number 1000 would matter when other significant numbers of Pokemon didn't get preferential treatment either

Any particular reason you refuse to play Pokemon? The series definitely has its share of issues but the core gameplay is still a lot of fun. Not really saying you need to play it but I’m just curious.

 

[superprincess]

Ask Game Freak, they're the ones that made a big deal out of Pokemon 1000 and not 500 (Emboar lmao) or 750 (Mudsdale).

Valid point but when has Game Freak ever been the one to choose the Pokemon in Smash? Sakurai always goes for what's popular with the anime/movies (Jigglypuff/Mewtwo/Lucario) or gets access to the designs early on and picks the most interesting one (Greninja/Incineroar). Arbitrary numbering has never mattered.

Any particular reason you refuse to play Pokemon? The series definitely has its share of issues but the core gameplay is still a lot of fun. Not really saying you need to play it but I’m just curious.

The gameplay just isn't for me. I remember my brothers owning a ton of Pokemon games in our childhood and I'd always get bored 5 minutes in, which is something that has carried on well into adulthood lol

I also don't like how Game Freak gets away with selling lazy and blatantly unfinished games. I know this is a Twitter argument and had been ran to the ground but from what I saw, I really couldn't find it in me to support Sword/Shield or Scarlet and Violet.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Not gonna stop you from supporting Gholdengo for your own reasons, but me, personally? I honestly couldn't give two ****s about it being "Pokémon #1000" since that means absolutely nothing to me.

Any Pokémon I support, I support because I like them or because I think they'd be interesting of a concept, and unfortunately, Gholdengo doesn't tick either of those boxes for me. Neither does the overrated Meowscarada either, to be fair.

I like Meowscarada's Joker (the Persona one)-esque design and the idea of it being a semi-mage sort of fighter, and along with's pre-evolution Sprigatito it's easily my favorite of the Gen 9's starters, but I completely agree on Gholdengo.

Gholdengo's design just doesn't click for me, and neither does it's almost entirely plain gold palette. Gholdengo's got it's fans, and that's cool. I just don't personally like it that much. It being the 1000th Pokemon might be a facotr in it's favorite, but there are many other Pokemon who'd be far more interesting as playable fighters from Gen 9 and previous Generations alike, imo.

 

[Schnee117]

Except that fighting games subvert it constantly. Acrofatic is a pretty common fighting game trope.

Yes, and they'll still be designed and balanced with their appearance in mind. You have a big character. They generally have good reach or damage, maybe both where they usually falter in any agility related departments. If they're big and fast then they'll take the hit somewhere else instead.
Not to mention that a subversion means there's a general norm that they're going against in the first place.

Valid point but when has Game Freak ever been the one to choose the Pokemon in Smash? Sakurai always goes for what's popular with the anime/movies (Mewtwo/Lucario) or gets access to the designs early on and picks the most interesting one (Greninja/Incineroar). Arbitrary numbering has never mattered.

Character Chronicle: Greninja

Greninja, I choose you for this episode of my recurring column! Dodge, and use Water Shrunken!

sourcegaming.info

.

Sakurai has the final say but he generally consults with Game Freak and TPC about what's gonna get the push and he chooses what appeals to him most from there. Being Pokemon 1000, Gholdengo is something that likely would be in a hypothetical selection.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that if Gen 9 gets a rep it will probably be Quaquaval. I think that Sakurai might go for it for the same reasons he chose Greninja and Incineroar.

 

[Will]

what if the Pokémon trainer was truly Solo and they fought with **** like the Old Rod

 

[KingofPhantoms]

what if the Pokémon trainer was truly Solo and they fought with **** like the Old Rod

If he was truly Solo, he'd fight with Chewbacca instead.

 

[Ivander]

That's how Pokemon work. Evolution is additive, not subtractive.

looks at Scizor who has the same base stat total as Scyther and gains the use of Mega Evolution, but loses the use of Evolite

Scizor got the short-end stick in evolution and even the stick was taken from them.

 

[Schnee117]

If he was truly Solo, he'd fight with Chewbacca instead.

He'd have an 0-10 match-up against Byleth

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yes, and they'll still be designed and balanced with their appearance in mind. You have a big character. They generally have good reach or damage, maybe both where they usually falter in any agility related departments. If they're big and fast then they'll take the hit somewhere else instead.

And there's no reason they couldn't do that with Blastoise.

Not to mention that a subversion means there's a general norm that they're going against in the first place.

Yep. That's what Bowser, Wario, K. Rool, etc. are for.

 

[RileyXY1]

looks at Scizor who has the same base stat total as Scyther and gains the use of Mega Evolution, but loses the use of Evolite

Scizor got the short-end stick in evolution and even the stick was taken from them.

He does at least get a much better typing than Scyther. Bug/Flying is a horrible typing with a 4x weakness to Rock and additional weaknesses to Electric, Ice, Fire, and Flying. Bug/Steel meanwhile has only a 4x weakness to Fire and that's it.

 

[Ivander]

He does at least get a much better typing than Scyther. Bug/Flying is a horrible typing with a 4x weakness to Rock and additional weaknesses to Electric, Ice, Fire, and Flying. Bug/Steel meanwhile has only a 4x weakness to Fire and that's it.

So it loses 1 4x weakness and gains a new one in it's place.

Also, it, and other Steel types, lost their defense advantage against Dark and Ghost after Gen VI.

 

[PeridotGX]

Because I don't like transformations. And without the transformation aspect, there's no reason to stick to 1st or 2nd form. Especially when Blastoise's third form has all the cool water cannon stuff.

There's a reason we didn't get Froakie or Litten

Variety's the spice of life, I think it's neat to have some unevolved Pokemon. Pokken had a few, and honestly I think it would have been cool to have even more. Haunter or Gurdurr could have been fun.

what if the Pokémon trainer was truly Solo and they fought with **** like the Old Rod

That was an unironic want of mine during the ballot days. Honestly, I still wouldn't be opposed.

 

[RileyXY1]

So it loses 1 4x weakness and gains a new one in it's place.

Also, it, and other Steel types, lost their defense advantage against Dark and Ghost after Gen VI.

It lost all its other weaknesses as well. It goes from five weaknesses to only having one.

 

[PeridotGX]

So it loses 1 4x weakness and gains a new one in it's place.

Also, it, and other Steel types, lost their defense advantage against Dark and Ghost after Gen VI.

And this is in a world where scyther can wear boots to not lose half of it's health on entry. Scyther is stronger than most NFEs, but Scizor is pretty much just an upgrade.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Variety's the spice of life, I think it's neat to have some unevolved Pokemon.

That's what the shockrats are for.

 

[HyperSomari64]

The next game will have a gimmick inspired by Hasbro's Mash-Up figures and Lego's Bionicle, where you mix different fighters into one monstrosity. Mario with Link's head and Donkey Kong's arms, Fox with Pikachu's torso and Captain Falcon's legs, the possibilities are endless.

 

[SPEN18]

Scizor was actually a very well-designed Pokemon looks-wise, stat-wise, and typing-wise. Its issue originally was just lack of movepool, not stats; its high attack was always effectively negated by a lack of high-BP STAB moves. Once they at least gave it STAB moves with excellent utility, if not high BP, like Technician Bullet Punch and U-Turn, it became really strong. Nowadays it just suffers from power creep like basically everything else

 

[chocolatejr9]

The next game will have a gimmick inspired by Hasbro's Mash-Up figures and Lego's Bionicle, where you mix different fighters into one monstrosity. Mario with Link's head and Donkey Kong's arms, Fox with Pikachu's torso and Captain Falcon's legs, the possibilities are endless.

Why was my first thought reading this Skylanders: Swap Force?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

**** it, this is now our token Paldea Pokémon.
Say something nice about it.

 

[CannonStreak]

**** it, this is now our token Paldea Pokémon.
Say something nice about it.

That is KNOT a bad bird Pokémon. (Referring to the knot in its neck)

Prepares to run from the objects being thrown at him for that pun

 

[CapitaineCrash]

This reminds me, do you guys think we'll ever get a legit joke character again (as in a "haha this character sucks" joke), or do y'all think Smash has moved on from that? I'm guessin they're done with jokes since y'know, the devs kinda care about balance now. But I think they should, playing a weakling's fun. Especially if they still have a couple good tools so you still have a route to win with dedication. A good joke character is like art to me.

Like Pichu. If it were up to me? They shoulda kept Pichu as a joke character in Ultimate. I got nothing against the lil rat but but I feel like her actually being useable ruins the joke. It's like Dan Hibiki being good. I wouldn't have minded some improvements, but seein Pichu do half the **** she can do in ultimate... it's not natural. I don't like it. All Pichu mains are lucky I don't run Smash. But if not her, I guess Glass Joe would be cool.

I don't think we'll really see more joke characters since 1) Like you said devs actually cares about balance today and 2) Past jokes characters (Jigglypuff and Pichu) were made using assets from other characters, they were kind of fun bonus that didn't have too much dev time.

But if we see one more joke characters, I'd like it to be Tingle, but I feel like the joke would't land too well if there's not another Zelda newcomers with him after all those years waiting for an actual Zelda newcomers. Another idea I have is that the joke could be again a Pokémon, like Tarountula or something weird like that from the last gen.

 

[DarthEnderX]

**** it, this is now our token Paldea Pokémon.
Say something nice about it.

No! I hate Pokemon with no evolutions.

 

[Ivander]

**** it, this is now our token Paldea Pokémon.
Say something nice about it.

It is a very beautiful creature, much like SCP-1507.

 

[Sucumbio]

I just watched a video about Popful Mail and now I wanna play it I dunno if it's good cause the video was just using footage for talk about Sister Sonic or something but it LOOKS amazing (Sega CD version) despite its age.

 

[osby]

**** it, this is now our token Paldea Pokémon.
Say something nice about it.

I like how its head is just a part of its neck and the bulbous body.

...yeah, I actually like Flamigo - one of my favorite Gen 9 mons, in fact.

 

[Kirbeh]

Since the topic is Pokémon and I'm half asleep and feeling unreasonable, here's a scenario for fun:

They're adding 54 Pokémon as fighters. 6 per Gen. Build your teams. Go. But don't actually. Rules.

How you split them up is up to you so long as it's 6* per generation. 6 individuals, 2 teams of 3, two forms of the same Pokémon, an entire evolutionary line, etc.

You get 6 flex slots. You can add up to 2 extra to a Gen, but it comes at the cost of removing 2 from a different one.

For example, you can short Gen 1 twice to add those slots to Gen 3. Or short one each from 4 and 5 to add both to Gen 6, etc. You cannot short a single gen more than twice though; you must pick at least 4. Even if you don't like a particular gen very much, try to look over the dex and see who you think would at least be interesting as fighters.

If you can reasonably make an Echo like Jiggs/Scream Tail, they can be added without counting towards the overall count.

Bonus round. One more team. 6 more fighters, but they're human characters. Gym Leaders, Elite 4, Champions, Trainer classes, other notable or non-notable NPCs. All (game canon characters) are fair game. They would be the fighters though, not their Pokémon, so bear that in mind.

Now go.

I just watched a video about Popful Mail and now I wanna play it I dunno if it's good cause the video was just using footage for talk about Sister Sonic or something but it LOOKS amazing (Sega CD version) despite its age.

Popful Mail mentioned.

**** it, this is now our token Paldea Pokémon.
Say something nice about it.

He's shaped like a friend.

 

[fogbadge]

I also don't like how Game Freak gets away with selling lazy and blatantly unfinished games. I know this is a Twitter argument and had been ran to the ground but from what I saw, I really couldn't find it in me to support Sword/Shield or Scarlet and Violet.

i see you like to talk with confidence about things you don't know much about. don't call a game lazy especially when you've never played it for yourself and when it's cause twitter said so

 

[Gorgonzales]

**** it, this is now our token Paldea Pokémon.
Say something nice about it.

suspiciously earthworm-shaped bird

 

[fogbadge]

And shame on you guys for not suggesting dachsbun & grafaiai

 

[Gorgonzales]

And shame on you guys for not suggesting dachsbun & grafaiai

grafaiai is cool, there's just pokemon i like more.

dachsbun gets OHKO'd by wario's chomp

 

[Gengar84]

i see you like to talk with confidence about things you don't know much about. don't call a game lazy especially when you've never played it for yourself and when it's cause twitter said so

I mean, she does have a point. I’m not sure if lazy is the right word but the games definitely feel rushed and unfinished. I’ve been playing the series since the very first game and I’ve put tens of thousands of hours into the games over the years (probably the only series I’ve invested more time into than Smash). I think the games are still fun despite those flaws but the games aren’t living up to their potential in my opinion, especially considering that Pokemon is one of, if not the most profitable franchises ever.

 

[fogbadge]

I mean, she does have a point. I’m not sure if lazy is the right word but the games definitely feel rushed and unfinished. I’ve been playing the series since the very first game and I’ve put tens of thousands of hours into the games over the years (probably the only series I’ve invested more time into than Smash). I think the games are still fun despite those flaws but the games aren’t living up to their potential in my opinion, especially considering that Pokemon is one of, if not the most profitable franchises ever.

Laziness just is a harsh way of putting it. The problem is whoever is in charge of how much time GF gets to make these games. Laziness implies they’re not putting in the effort. Unfinished means they didn’t have the time. The solution is either giving them time or going back to the graphics of the handheld games

 

[Gengar84]

Laziness just is a harsh way of putting it. The problem is whoever is in charge of how much time GF gets to make these games. Laziness implies they’re not putting in the effort. Unfinished means they didn’t have the time. The solution is either giving them time or going back to the graphics of the handheld games

I think Masuda’s comments during ORAS and since have caused people to lose confidence that GameFreak is doing everything it can to make the games as good as they can be. I remember GameFreak used to brag about how much content they were able to stuff in the game during gens 4 and 5. Starting with ORAS, they started coming up with justifications for cutting content like people’s attention spans are too short for a meaningful post game.

The Thanos snap of the Dex could have been handled better too. If they had been honest during the development of Gen 7 that it was likely the last time we’d see all the Pokémon in one game due to development constraints, I think people would have been more accepting of that idea. The way they announced it during a random gameplay demo of Gen 8 came off like they didn’t care at all. Thats one thing I can appreciate about Sakurai. At least he’s letting us know well in advance that we likely won’t see “Everyone is Here” again. If the games had gotten significantly better in other ways, I could accept the cut dex more but that isn’t really happening to the level that it should either.

 

[fogbadge]

I think Masuda’s comments during ORAS and since have caused people to lose confidence that GameFreak is doing everything it can to make the games as good as they can be. I remember GameFreak used to brag about how much content they were able to stuff in the game during gens 4 and 5. Starting with ORAS, they started coming up with justifications for cutting content like people’s attention spans are too short for a meaningful post game.

The Thanos snap of the Dex could have been handled better too. If they had been honest during the development of Gen 7 that it was likely the last time we’d see all the Pokémon in one game due to development constraints, I think people would have been more accepting of that idea. The way they announced it during a random gameplay demo of Gen 8 came off like they didn’t care at all. Thats one thing I can appreciate about Sakurai. At least he’s letting us know well in advance that we likely won’t see “Everyone is Here” again. If the games had gotten significantly better in other ways, I could accept the cut dex more but that isn’t really happening to the level that it should either.

well lying to gamers is pretty low on the list if things i find obnoxious that game devs can do. after all that's basically what a marketing department is. but i do think people have had unrealistic expectations of pokemon as well. all those people hoping for pokemon games like botw not realizing that the pokemon team isn't the same as the zelda team and while it may make more money it is also spending a lot of that money of far more merchandise than an average game franchise. by all accounts GF isn't actually a triple A development studio and the devs, the fans and the corporate overlords at TPC all need to realise this if we want the games to improve

 

[DarthEnderX]

They're adding 54 Pokémon as fighters. 6 per Gen. Build your teams. Go. But don't actually. Rules.

That is...too much work. Pass.

My answers would just end up being the teams I mained for each of those gens anyway.

For example, my Gen 4 picks would be Empoleon, Honchkrow, Mamoswine, Gallade, Magnezone, Garchomp.