Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Shinuto]

I still think it’s a shame the Koopalings have become such a contentious addition. They’re not remotely on the same level as Pink Gold Peach, they’re all distinct characters with fun designs. Like, Lemmy and Roy are not even remotely similar. Once upon a time we were even excited that they were coming back, and now people are totally burnt out on them.

I wonder what happened? Do we just associate them with the oversaturated NSMB titles? Does the main series just not do a good enough job establishing their unique personalities? Because it’s never very convincing to me when people act like they’re a scourge on Mario Kart of all things.

I want the paper Mario cast in Mario kart

 

[Noipoi]

The Koopalings are radical, their problem is that they take up too many roster slots by principal. You're not just gonna have Iggy or Lemmy and leave out the rest of them. That's automatically 7 spaces taken up, and some people have an issue with that when their favorite characters don't make the cut.

Now the solution is to either A) just have more characters, or B) squash all the Koopalings into one roster slot like Smash does it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Are there any characters now that seem far more likely than during Ultimate's run and it's dlc time period? Any that seem likely as a lock to be a bit presumptuous?

The 'busa.

 

[SPEN18]

I just want Fawful in Mario Kart, so many posibilities for Mario characters to pick from and were stuck with Pink gold peach and the Koopalings

Now see Fawful is the character I would take if I had to represent the Mario RPGs. Though he still suffers from the same problems as Paper and Geno.

I can't say I lose any sleep over the Mario Kart roster, but yeah I agree that the weird character variants and Koopalings kind of clog it up.

The other thing working against Mario RPG characters, for the purposes of both Smash and the Mario spinoffs, is that they're not internally developed. Paper Mario is IS, M&L is AlphaDream (RIP), and Mario RPG is Square. They seem to suffer from this status even more so than the likes of Waluigi. It's pretty clear that Nintendo simply doesn't care about them as much as the main Mario cast.

 

[Louie G.]

I want the paper Mario cast in Mario kart

I’d love a bunch of random Mario characters in Kart!! Anyone from Fawful, Il Piantissimo, Spike, whoever. I really want King Bob-Omb and Poochy to make their way over to a console entry, would love some Wario-verse characters to join and so forth. They got plenty of options.

But at this point, it feels wrong to pin that on any of the existing characters. I think the next MK should have a bigger roster since so many characters have already been added to Tour, and those assets have been utilized to add characters into MK8D. It’s certainly not the same amount of work as say, a full Smash character. The foundation is there and they can probably just port a bunch over - the new tracks are the main attraction anyway.

 

[Kirbeh]

I just want Fawful in Mario Kart, so many posibilities for Mario characters to pick from and were stuck with Pink gold peach and the Koopalings

I don't mind the Koopalings, at least they're different characters. People wanted them back, Nintendo wound up overcorrecting and then people got tired from overexposure. They're here now and it's really not a big deal imo. Outside of Mario Kart and Smash they haven't really spread that far into other games.

Definitely want them to acknowledge the RPG characters though. Base some tracks on actual games too. I love that Mario Kart pretty much gets to make their own locations, but I feel like it's a missed opportunity to not use some of the existing locations from throughout Mario as a franchise.

The Koopalings are radical, their problem is that they take up too many roster slots by principal. You're not just gonna have Iggy or Lemmy and leave out the rest of them. That's automatically 7 spaces taken up, and some people have an issue with that when their favorite characters don't make the cut.

Now the solution is to either A) just have more characters, or B) squash all the Koopalings into one roster slot like Smash does it.

Solution A is the only one makes sense. What purpose does forcing them to share a slot even have apart from just not showing them on the CSS? They still take the same amount of time/resources to make. Plus, as they actually have more proper scaling and different stats in MK, this makes even less sense to do.

Do this but for instances like Cat Peach and Tanooki Mario. Retool them into costumes. No stat differences, same character, different look. Characters in a game like MK aren't nearly as complicated to develop, but the focus is more on the courses.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I still think it’s a shame the Koopalings have become such a contentious addition. They’re not remotely on the same level as Pink Gold Peach, they’re all distinct characters with fun designs. Like, Lemmy and Roy are not even remotely similar. Once upon a time we were even excited that they were coming back, and now people are totally burnt out on them.

I wonder what happened? Do we just associate them with the oversaturated NSMB titles? Does the main series just not do a good enough job establishing their unique personalities? Because it’s never very convincing to me when people act like they’re a scourge on Mario Kart of all things.

There's two core issues at work. At least initially it was sheer overexposure (2009-2014 went all in a featuring the Koopa Kids)

The second is that their use in spin-offs doesn't really do justice to how distinct they are from each other like the mainline 2D Mario games do. As a result, you sort of end up with 7 of Bowser's minions taking up spots in game rosters without much to make them stand out as much. Its less of an issue in Smash than Mario Kart, but it is there in both to a degree. It would be like if Star Fox had only one character in Smash with eight alts (Fox, Falco, Slippy, Peppy, Krystal, Wolf, Leon, & Panther) and they all pretty much played the same, or if Mario Kart started going all in on guest characters and 7 slots taken up by various Links (Ocarina of Time, Four Swords, Hyrule Warriors, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, Breath of the Wild) and there was no real difference other than weight class.

It's cool to have them if you're a fan, but if you're not there's just not as much sizzle with their inclusion.

 

[Noipoi]

Solution A is the only one makes sense. Do this but for instances like Cat Peach and Tanooki Mario. Retool them into costumes. No stat differences, same character, different look. Characters in a game like MK aren't nearly as complicated to develop, but the focus is more on the courses.

Hey, that works for me

 

[CannonStreak]

About Paper Mario and Geno, I do know Paper Mario has a stage, BUT Mario from Paper Mario himself has yet to be playable, and I would like to say that given that there are about five Smash Bros. games and he is not playable in one of them, years after Super Mario RPG (where Geno's from) and the remake of Super Mario RPG sometime after Ultimate, I do think because of that; as well as Sakurai wanting Geno in Smash Bros. before; Geno may be more likely to get in before Paper Mario. That is just my thoughts, though.

 

[Louie G.]

if Mario Kart started going all in on guest characters and 7 slots taken up by various Links (Ocarina of Time, Four Swords, Hyrule Warriors, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, Breath of the Wild) and there was no real difference other than weight class.

This is a little silly to me, because there's fundamentally not much difference between any Mario Kart character other than weight class. And the Koopalings look a hell of a lot more different from each other than a bunch of Links. Not gonna try to convince you to like them but I feel like this is a moot point. Anyway,

It would be like if Star Fox had only one character in Smash with eight alts (Fox, Falco, Slippy, Peppy, Krystal, Wolf, Leon, & Panther) and they all pretty much played the same

I do think about this sometimes though, I don't really know how I feel about Bowser Jr's execution in Smash. I like him enough, I'm glad he's here and I'm glad the Koopalings were able to come along. But on paper, I fundamentally disagree with the choice. I've been vocally against putting alternate character skins on top of established characters because that will end up selling one or the other short. If you've went all in with one character, it makes it difficult to retroactively just slap a different model on top. It's why the ARMS thing would have never worked. But the reverse is you take away a bit of what makes the source character unique, in favor of boiling it down to the most basic depiction that can cover the most ground.

That's what Bowser Jr and the Koopalings are, but I get it. Essentially you're playing as the Clown Car. It is a bit odd when you resonate too much on how weird the Koopalings look outside of the clown car, or that they turn into Shadow Mario... these are inaccuracies that Smash usually tends to avoid. But I've noticed this is kind of just the Olimar / Alph & Pikmin situation 8 times over. I don't think I'd want them to remove the Koopalings in favor of strengthening Bowser Jr's character individually, now that they're here - I mean, they all do kinda act like Bowser Jr. But it does sell everyone a little short in the process.

 

[BuckleyTim]

I don't really care about the koopalings in MK at this point (especially now that the booster course pass brought my opinion of the 8 roster up to "it's fine but it's lacking that last bit of spice, y'know?") but i'm pretty sure if you combine the percentage of newcomers to base 8 that were koopa kids and the percentage that were obvious filler like baby rosa and My Pink Gold Main then a very clear picture starts to form of why people felt that the koopalings were the main blocker to getting "their character" in that mario kart.

And my opinion on Tour's roster was also that it was fineeeee, but they still could've gone further if they really wanted to. Maybe I'm just a tad salty that boomerang bro and charging chuck didn't make the jump to 8DX.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This is a little silly to me, because there's fundamentally not much difference between any Mario Kart character other than weight class. And the Koopalings look a hell of a lot more different from each other than a bunch of Links. Not gonna try to convince you to like them but I feel like this is a moot point.

I mean I like the Koopalings and am glad they're in Mario Kart and Smash. I just know for some fans, the characters just don't feel as distinct or stand out as much to warrant having all them there (or at the very least make them appealing characters to often choose). I suspect for some, there's an investment in say a Donkey Kong, Diddy, Wario or various other Mario adjacent characters (even long time baddies like Kamek) even if there's no real difference other than weight class for them because of who they are. The Koopalings within the context of Mario Kart, just feel like the same character to some people even with their differences because there's so many and the same kind of investment in them just isn't as present.

It's an observation about how certain fans feel, not a reflection of my opinion on them.

 

[Kirbeh]

This is a little silly to me, because there's fundamentally not much difference between any Mario Kart character other than weight class. And the Koopalings look a hell of a lot more different from each other than a bunch of Links. Not gonna try to convince you to like them but I feel like this is a moot point. Anyway,



I do think about this sometimes though, I don't really know how I feel about Bowser Jr's execution in Smash. I like him enough, I'm glad he's here and I'm glad the Koopalings were able to come along. But on paper, I fundamentally disagree with the choice. I've been vocally against putting alternate character skins on top of established characters because that will end up selling one or the other short. If you've went all in with one character, it makes it difficult to retroactively just slap a different model on top. It's why the ARMS thing would have never worked. But the reverse is you take away a bit of what makes the source character unique, in favor of boiling it down to the most basic depiction that can cover the most ground.

That's what Bowser Jr and the Koopalings are, but I get it. Essentially you're playing as the Clown Car. It is a bit odd when you resonate too much on how weird the Koopalings look outside of the clown car, or that they turn into Shadow Mario... these are inaccuracies that Smash usually tends to avoid. But I've noticed this is kind of just the Olimar / Alph & Pikmin situation 8 times over. I don't think I'd want them to remove the Koopalings in favor of strengthening Bowser Jr's character individually, now that they're here - I mean, they all do kinda act like Bowser Jr. But it does sell everyone a little short in the process.

I'm personally still in favor of characters as costumes but I do think it's something to be more particular about.

In the case of their Smash depiction, I'd actually be in favor of separating Jr. from the Koopalings. The Koopalings can stay and keep the clown car, and Jr. can either do the same (they become his echo) or they can focus on allowing him to fight on foot while wielding his paintbrush. Or perhaps even turn Jr. into a "transform" character by allowing him to exit and reenter his car as he pleases whereas the Koopalings remain bound to theirs.

That at least allows Jr. to be a bit more unique. The Koopalings could stay, though still lacking their unique abilities but in their case, I do think it's a necessary compromise if we're going to have them.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The clown car was Jr.'s to start with and he's been more times than not using it when fighting as a boss.

The Koopalings got custom "production line" models of his clown car exclusive to Smash for the sake of being his alts. Never have they used clown cars to fight with and all have their own means to fight as bosses.

It's painfully clear who should keep the car if there is ever a split. :/

 

[Sucumbio]

Got dang I missed like 12 pages... Mario RPG something... Wassup y'all .

 

[BuckleyTim]

You can definitely say that Smash's influence contributed heavily to it, but Bow Jr.'s been in the clown car for well over a decade at this point in the main series. Might be an overstatement but his fights did feel like glorified boom boom with fun gimmicks in Wonder... I'd say him being considered interchangeable with koopalings isn't that wrong a read, as much as I'd like him to do more 'unique' things than just lil' boss.

Add that to his appearances in Origami King and Bowser's Fury and they are deadset on making the little koopa clown car part of his identity.

 

[Kirbeh]

The clown car was Jr.'s to start with and he's been more times than not using it when fighting as a boss.

The Koopalings got custom "production line" models of his clown car exclusive to Smash for the sake of being his alts. Never have they used clown cars to fight with and all have their own means to fight as bosses.

It's painfully clear who should keep the car if there is ever a split. :/

Then go with the last option. I only suggested the former because lots of people that wanted Jr., wanted a brush focused move set. That and without the clown car, there's no reason for the Koopalings to stay. I'd simply prefer not cutting them so the fans they do have aren't left with nothing.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Personally? Bowser Jr had an extremely high chance of being a lousy excuse for a Smash inclusion, and using the Clown Car as a central basis was enough to make him dodge virtually all bullets. The only semblance of his bad Sunshine debut being a mere Final Smash is nothing but a boon to me.

 

[fogbadge]

The clown car was Jr.'s to start with and he's been more times than not using it when fighting as a boss.

The Koopalings got custom "production line" models of his clown car exclusive to Smash for the sake of being his alts. Never have they used clown cars to fight with and all have their own means to fight as bosses.

It's painfully clear who should keep the car if there is ever a split. :/

did they ever use it apart from that level in NSMB2 when they try to turn you to stone?

 

[superprincess]

I don't like the notion that Paper Mario, Geno, Fawful or whoever should get into Smash to "represent" the Mario RPGs. These characters should get in on their own merits, and we need to remember that Smash's roster isn't meant to "represent" every single facet of a series. It's why I dislike Waluigi movesets that lean too heavily on the Mario spinoff games, or when people say Impa should be a "HW" rep; these characters have their own skills and personalities that offer more than just "representing" a game or sub-series.

Speaking of the Koopalings, isn't it crazy that Wendy is the only female villain in Smash? I mean yeah, Dark Samus kinda counts, but not really. She's a manifestation of Phazon with some of Samus' DNA.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It's an odd catch 22 to a degree with the Koopalings. In some ways with an assist trophy/Pokeball esque item that summoned them, you could probably do more justice their individual quirks and characteristic methods of attack, but you'd lose their playable status in the process. Alts as Bowser Jr obviously gets them the inverse, though the designs and animations do give them some individual charm at least.

 

[Louie G.]

Personally? Bowser Jr had an extremely high chance of being a lousy excuse for a Smash inclusion, and using the Clown Car as a central basis was enough to make him dodge virtually all bullets. The only semblance of his bad Sunshine debut being a mere Final Smash is nothing but a boon to me.

I don't feel that strongly against his Sunshine portrayal, or NSMB DS for that matter, but I am glad he uses the clown car because he isn't that compelling as a Smash pick otherwise. It was the hook that probably convinced Sakurai to take a chance on him in the first place.

I suppose outside of the clown car Jr. could have been kind of a "little" boss character. Shares a lot of components from his dad and other superheavies, but in a compact package. That would have made for a pretty fun character, but I am essentially just pitching small Bowser here. I don't think the execution of the Clown Car was perfect, Jr doesn't quiiiite go all the way in with any sort of "mech" concept or like... the fact that the clown car can hover or fly. It does make me wish they went a little further but he's a fun and silly character who I'm still happier to have than not.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

did they ever use it apart from that level in NSMB2 when they try to turn you to stone?

To my knowledge NSMB2 is the only time they all took Bowser's car for a joyride.

Could be wrong though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

In hindsight given how fond the Mario titles became with airship levels beginning with Galaxy/NSMBW and how frequently they've popped up in at least the 2D titles since, not having a Smash stage set there might be almost as surprising as the lack of a Bowser's Castle level. Maybe it was seen as a redundancy of sorts with pirate ship stages and having the Halberd, but it's a notable omission now that I'm thinking about it.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I don't feel that strongly against his Sunshine portrayal, or NSMB DS for that matter, but I am glad he uses the clown car because he isn't that compelling as a Smash pick otherwise. It was the hook that probably convinced Sakurai to take a chance on him in the first place.

I don't think the execution of the Clown Car was perfect, Jr doesn't quiiiite go all the way in with any sort of "mech" concept or like... the fact that the clown car can hover or fly. It does make me wish they went a little further but he's a fun and silly character who I'm still happier to have than not.

Throwing in my two cents from the "Characters as Costumes" thread:

I firmly believe that the Koopalings as Jr. alts are an objectively flawed concept because they hold Jr. back. I really think that the Koopalings as alts really hinged on the novelty of having 8 characters in 1, especially since it coincided with the release of 8 player Smash. With that, Jr's moveset is less of a Bowser Jr. moveset and more of a Clown Car moveset, because it's really the one doing all of the work. Bowser Jr. doesn't use his paintbrush in his moveset except for his Final Smash, and the paintbrush is such a big part of his character that it's very obvious that it's missing in his base kit.

When you try to force a character to be someone they're not, you get Daisy in Smash Ultimate; a character that's only themself in name, with almost all of their actions not conveying who they actually are. You get the Koopalings with awkward proportions, generic animations that don't suit their indivudal personalities, and a tacked-on Final Smash as a last-ditch attempt to get something uniquely Bowser Jr. in there to compensate for how decisively not-Jr. his kit is.

This always looked weird and gross to me.

I want more uniquely Jr. things from Jr. I want him to use his paintbrush more in his moveset, have a special dedicated to it, and I honestly want the Koopalings gone as alts because they neuter the potential Jr. had to express himself more. Most of his taunts and moves feel painfully generic because they had to account for all the Koopalings. I'm fine with the Clown Car though, and I think he should wield both it and the Paintbrush like in Bowser's Fury.

I think the Clown Car concept could have been better executed, like you said. Lean harder in the mecha direction, and make it feel more like a Clown Car.
Preferably with a Peach-float mechanic that allows him to hover around omnidirectionally by holding jump, that would have been more evocative for how the Car functions.

A lot of his current moves are just weird. The forward and back aerials using the chained-cannonballs in an awkward and short-ranged way is really odd, and I'd much rather those use paintbrush swings. That, and make those cannonballs actually function like they did in the trailer, acting as anchors and all.

 

[superprincess]

In hindsight given how fond the Mario titles became with airship levels beginning with Galaxy/NSMBW and how frequently they've popped up in at least the 2D titles since, not having a Smash stage set there might be almost as surprising as the lack of a Bowser's Castle level. Maybe it was seen as a redundancy of sorts with pirate ship stages and having the Halberd, but it's a notable omission now that I'm thinking about it.

I'm pretty sure an airship stage would overlap with Rainbow Ride/Cruise. So I can see why it's not in.

Bowser's Castle though, there's no excuse. And with the two latest mainline Marios abandoning the stereotypical bricks and lava castle, I don't think we're gonna see it in Smash 6 either. Odyssey opted for a Japanese style while Bowser was the castle in Wonder. Maybe we'll get Castle Bowser or Pipe-Rock Plateau Palace or something, but I don't think that will be their stage choice from Wonder.

 

[Kirbeh]

I don't like the notion of Paper Mario, Geno, Fawful or whoever getting into Smash to "represent" the Mario RPGs. These characters should get in on their own merits, and we need to remember that Smash's roster isn't meant to "represent" every single facet of a series. It's why I dislike Waluigi movesets that lean to heavily on the Mario spinoff games, or when people say Impa should be a "HW" rep; these characters have their own skills and personalities that offer more than just "representing" a game or sub-series.

I can agree with the base statement, but people are going to keep asking for these other facets because of genuine want not to check off a box.

I mean, most cases of asking for those characters is because people actually want said characters. Where people derive their ideas for move sets is going to come from the aspects they personally like or think could work, so I don't really see the issue there.

Speaking of the Koopalings, isn't it crazy that Wendy is the only female villain in Smash? I mean yeah, Dark Samus kinda counts, but not really. She's a manifestation of Phazon with some of Samus' DNA.

Not really? Up until Ultimate it was pretty much just Bowser and Dorf for villains to begin with. Now that we're post Ultimate sure, I think they could maybe go for one but there aren't a lot of prominent in-house ones to pull from. I'd love to see the likes of Medusa or Syrup (she counts right?) but I don't think their chances are particularly high. Going into third party territory opens up some more options but if they're specifically going for villains, I feel like the ones they would wind up going for are mostly male too; Eggman, Bison, etc.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean I like the Koopalings and am glad they're in Mario Kart and Smash. I just know for some fans, the characters just don't feel as distinct or stand out as much to warrant having all them there

To be fair, nobody feels distinct in Mario Kart. It's not like anyone has different movesets. They're all just a handful of stat bars shifted around.

The clown car was Jr.'s to start with and he's been more times than not using it when fighting as a boss.

Technically, it was Bowser's first.

The Koopalings got custom "production line" models of his clown car exclusive to Smash for the sake of being his alts. Never have they used clown cars to fight with and all have their own means to fight as bosses.

They all used one in NSMB2, prior to Smash 4.

It's not a boss fight, but it IS a gameplay segment.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

To be fair, nobody feels distinct in Mario Kart. It's not like anyone has different movesets. They're all just a handful of stat bars shifted around.

True, I just think with many players there's an investment in their character beyond stats that still compels people to choose them in MK even with their particular attributes. It's likely the same to a degree with the Koopalings (I'm pretty big on using Roy myself) but the I think their sheer quantity is the kind of thing that might turn off those that aren't particularly into them to begin with. It's not necessarily a fair judgement on the characters, just something I think that is present at times.

 

[SPEN18]

As someone who was really rooting for Jr pre-4, seeing him get in but fully in the clown car was really jarring. Potentially the most jarring reveal in terms of how I thought they'd play vs. how they were actually gonna play.

Now, since he got in Smash, the clown car has become more a part of Jr's depictions, so maybe I could get more on board with it if it was being used in a more uniquely Jr. kind of way, like Gorgonzales suggests. Right now, though, it's a really awkward moveset and the Koopalings only hold it back further.

 

[Dinoman96]

Remember how after the ARMS fighter teaser in March 2020, we theorized that it could have been a weird conglomerated character with all of the characters as skins like the Koopalings

Fun times

 

[DarthEnderX]

I care more about the Koopalings than I do about Bowser Jr. Him being used as a platform to get them into Smash is the only thing that makes HIM in Smash worthwhile.

 

[superprincess]

I can agree with the base statement, but people are going to keep asking for these other facets because of genuine want not to check off a box.

I mean, most cases of asking for those characters is because people actually want said characters. Where people derive their ideas for move sets is going to come from the aspects they personally like or think could work, so I don't really see the issue there.

I'm not saying people shouldn't ask for them, I just think that the argument that being "RPG reps" makes them more likely or compelling is flawed. Especially when most of the same people would snub Daisy and Waluigi for being spinoff exclusives. The truth is Mario RPGs are a pretty niche (if not the most niche) subseries of the Mario universe, especially nowadays. Geno being from an RPG doesn't do him any favors. Being Geno does.

Not really? Up until Ultimate it was pretty much just Bowser and Dorf for villains to begin with. Now that we're post Ultimate sure, I think they could maybe go for one but there aren't a lot of prominent in-house ones to pull from. I'd love to see the likes of Medusa or Syrup (she counts right?) but I don't think their chances are particularly high. Going into third party territory opens up some more options but if they're specifically going for villains, I feel like the ones they would wind up going for are mostly male too; Eggman, Bison, etc.

Yeah, I didn't really word it right. With Smash barely having villains until recently and also barely having women until recently, a female villain would be extra rare.

I just find it weird and funny that Wendy was the first one to make it (under special circumstances, but still). When you think of the type of character that usually gets into Smash, she's not exactly the first that comes to mind. Her being the first of anything in Smash is just random. As for other female villains, I think Medusa is the most likely if that KI:U remaster happens. That's a big if, but Medusa would be a fun clone of Palutena.

 

[fogbadge]

Remember how after the ARMS fighter teaser in March 2020, we theorized that it could have been a weird conglomerated character with all of the characters as skins like the Koopalings

Fun times

I try not too

 

[superprincess]

Remember how after the ARMS fighter teaser in March 2020, we theorized that it could have been a weird conglomerated character with all of the characters as skins like the Koopalings

Fun times

Now who is "we"...

 

[Wonder Smash]

Every since I officially given up all hope on a new PlayStation All-Stars, I think I've finally gotten over my hesitation about seeing Crash in Smash Bros now.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Remember how after the ARMS fighter teaser in March 2020, we theorized that it could have been a weird conglomerated character with all of the characters as skins like the Koopalings

Fun times

I didn't have an account at the time, but I saw that theory and thought it was absolutely idiotic.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I kind of wouldn't mind another ARMS like announcement of "this series is getting a Smash character to be revealed specifically later" for a future hypothetical DLC fighter. I understand those that would simply prefer a character get announced outright, but that did spur some interesting discussion we wouldn't have had otherwise.

 

[Dinoman96]

Now who is "we"...

Mostly people desperate to get Spring Man in (as he would seemingly disprove the "AT characters can't be upgraded" rule), as they knew as that would be the best bet for him to be made playable as the fact that they teased at an ARMS fighter the way they did essentially ruled out him being the one by himself as it was too obvious.

 

[Louie G.]

Remember how after the ARMS fighter teaser in March 2020, we theorized that it could have been a weird conglomerated character with all of the characters as skins like the Koopalings

Fun times

This was the most hellish period of speculation for me because it felt like everyone was just throwing logic out the window. If anything I was mostly taken aback at how little some people cared about the integrity of individual characters. In a fighting game, it's their distinct personalities and abilities that make those characters valuable. Promoting them through Smash as being effectively interchangeable and keeping them glued down under some shell void of a distinctive personality sends the worst possible message. That's ignoring just how impractical the idea was to begin with.

It still kind of haunts me to this day because I see people say Doc Louis can be a Little Mac echo or something. I really wish we could wrap our heads around how body types and personality dictate character. Sakurai explicitly cited this as a reason Isabelle couldn't be an echo fighter, let alone a costume.