Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Guynamednelson]

Well it isn't the first time Samus could be seen fighting unarmored, at least.

Also fun fact for those who don't know: In PMEX Remix, "Justin Bailey" Samus is a separate character from both that you can access by holding L while selecting Varia Suit Samus.

What would you think of Varia Suit Samus inheriting some of these moves?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Anyone excited about Pokemon Sleep?

inb4 "Smash Bros Sleep"

 

[Ivander]

Built from remains of all the Corviknights that used to roam Kalos.

Used to.

Only because the Regional Variant Tinkaton figured out how to get a super-effective move/typing against Corviknight compared to their Paldean counterparts.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

As someone who suffers with this problem myself, I appreciate Sakurai taking steps to address this issue in the community to improve accessibility for gamers.

 

[Jave]

I'm going to do something a bit more unusual for myself in that I'll try to analyze what I THINK will happen with the next Smash game.

• Based on what Sakurai said in one of his videos, I don't think Everyone Is Here is happening again. All the planets aligned for that to happen on Switch and it was a "Now or Never" thing.
• I think the base roster for the next game will be around 60-70 unique characters, not including Echo Fighters.
• Sakurai will definitely try to bring everyone back, but unlike Ultimate where getting all veterans back was the big priority, this time he will prioritize newcomers over veterans, which will lead to veterans getting cut in favor of newcomers.
• If a veteran character with an existing Echo Fighter gets cut, the Echo gets cut with them. If the veteran stays, the Echo stays.

Going series by series now, and again, this is all my personal speculation. Don't take any of this as me forcing anything down anyone's throats. And fair warning, I talk about "priorities" a lot:

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Bowser and Peach (and by extension Daisy) are all safe IMO. Rosalina and Bowser Jr. are probably close but I don't want to ensure it. Doc and Plant are at the bottom of the priority list, and I think Sakurai will prioritize at least one newcomer (either Captain Toad or Waluigi) over them.

Donkey Kong: This one's tough. I think Sakurai will prioritize the three veterans over a potential newcomer (99% likely to be Dixie), but I doubt Dixie will be prioritized over K. Rool.

Legend of Zelda: What a weird spot this series is in. For being one of Nintendo's most iconic series it's hard to believe they haven't had a newcomer since Brawl, and one that isn't Link since Melee. The trio of Link/Zelda/Ganondorf is definitely safe. Sheik could stay due to seniority, but I doubt we'll get both Toon and Young Link back. We might get a newcomer over Young Link, which could be some version of Impa. But it seems that with every Smash game there's people clamoring for the hot NPC character in the last Zelda game, which in the end we never get. Hope we do this time around.

Kirby: Sakurai will 100% bring his three babies back but no newcomer will be prioritized over them. Since Kirby is Sakurai's own series, whether Bandana Dee or Magolor or Marx or whoever potential newcomer happens will be entirely up to Sakurai and if he's in the mood to do so.

Warioware: Wario's safe. Nothing has really changed regarding this series since pre-Ultimate, so I don't think a newcomer here is a big priority in the grand scheme of things. Ashley has a legit shot due to popularity. Maaayyybe Mona. But anyone else from this series is probably too much of a reach.

Pokemon: The only series with a guaranteed newcomer spot based on Sakurai's own words. Pikachu is safe because DUH. I could see Charizard getting solo priority again in order to make room for the newcomer by cutting Squirtle and Ivysaur. Jigglypuff would probably have priority over Mewtwo but Sakurai would definitely try to bring both back. As for the non-Gen 1 Pokemon I could see being something like Lucario > Greninja > Incineroar > Pichu, although none will be prioritized over the newcomer (which could go to Gen 9 or 10 depending on timing).

Metroid: I don't think anything is changing here. Samus and Dark Samus are safe and ZSS and Ridley are likely high priority. I doubt we'll get a newcomer though.

Star Fox: Fox is safe. Falco maybe. Wolf could make it or not depending of dev time, as Sakurai had no issues cutting him once. I doubt we'll get a newcomer from this series given it hasn't seen much action lately.

Yoshi: Yoshi's safe. That's it. I doubt there's anything else happening with this series.

Kid Icarus: Same as Metroid, Pit and Dark Pit are safe and Palutena is high on the priority list. As much as I love Viridi and Hades I doubt we'll get a newcomer though.

Fire Emblem: Hoo boy. Where to begin? First thing first, Marth, and by extension Lucina, are safe. But that's it. None of the other FE veterans, all SIX of them, are in a position where I can say "Yeah, this character is definitely coming back". I feel that, when you account the reception of previous FE characters in past Smash games, FE veterans are going to be prioritized pretty low in the grand Smash roster, so FE will end with the most cut characters. If I had to predict, I think we will end with 4 cuts, so the FE base roster will be Marth, Lucina, plus two of Ike/Roy/Chrom/Robin/Corrin/Byleth... and a newcomer. Yes, I think we're still getting a FE newcomer in the next Smash, not because "it's what always happens" but mainly to make up for the massive Exodus of characters the series will likely get. The newcomer could be Alear, or Lyn or Celica or Seliph or the next FE MC or whoever. But I think a FE newcomer in the next Smash is happening. Also I want Alear with a taunt where they pet Sommie. Don't take that away from me.

F-Zero: Cap's safe. Probably no newcomer in the works, but as I said earlier I'd like to see Jody Summer as an Echo.

Earthbound: Ness' safe. Who knows with Lucas as he wasn't high priority back in Smash 4. I doubt we'll get a newcomer outside of maybe Ninten as a Ness Echo, but even that feels like a longshot.

Animal Crossing: Villager's safe. Isabelle probably as well. If we get a newcomer, I could see it being Tom Nook, but he's not being prioritized over the two veterans.

Splatoon: Inkling is 100% safe. I definitely feel we're getting a newcomer here with a semi-cloned Octoling. Given the series' success I can definitely see a newcomer being high priority.

ARMS: Min Min is probably staying due to the series sole rep. Not sure if a newcomer is happening unless ARMS 2 is in the works. My personal pick for a newcomer would be Twintelle, but who knows what'll happen.

And then there's all the series with a single rep, which include:

• Mr. Game and Watch
• ROB
• Duck Hunt
• Ice Climbers
• Little Mac
• Wii Fit Trainer

I think Sakurai will try to bring all of these characters back due to being their sole reps of their respective series with no much room for newcomers. Not sure in which order he will prioritize them, but they feel like this little group of characters that stick around together.

Oh, and the Miis. Yeah, I think those are safe. Although I'd like to see a couple of new variants to add to the potential representation, like Mii Dancer or Magician.

As for 1st Party series not yet repped, Ring Fit Trainee from Ring Fit Adventures feels like the only newcomer with a solid shot. I guess there's Astral Chain but I'm not sure how popular that one is. Every other series has been MIA for the Switch generation. Well, there's Another Code/Trace Memory, but I doubt that one.

Not talking about 3rd parties because there are way too many factors involved in those, making them very hard to predict or put in a priority list. Although I will say that personally, I think the legendary trio of Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man should be Smash mainstays.

 

[fogbadge]

Built from remains of all the Corviknights that used to roam Kalos.

Used to.

corvikinght has advantage over tinkaton. the dex says it aims at corviknight it never said it ends well for tinkaton

 

[Perkilator]

Re: ZSS

I feel like I’m one of the only people who genuinely enjoys ZSS and doesn’t think her presence prevents regular Samus from getting a retool.

Plus, remember that ZSS was originally the product of a Final Smash and was separated in Sm4sh due to technical limitations.

 

[7NATOR]

Honestly in this day and age, it seems ZSS is needed now more than ever. People love Hot women that fight, which is what Samus is, but especially without the Power Suit

Honestly though, if there were cuts, she would be one of the first to go on my list simply because she is another version of Another character, and she's mostly non-Canon in moveset in the game

But I don't think she needs to go for Samus in the suit to become less Sluggish and Faster. Power suit Samus won't ever be as Fast as ZSS simply because the suit is weighing her down, even if she can go pretty fast, that and She will always keep her Floatiness too, which is a big difference in the moblity between the 2

For the Heels, on the surface it is pretty stupid, but honestly I think in context with Samus's Genetics, and that Heels do grant inches of extra Range, in addition to the Rockets, they did make it make sense. I also think it gives more weight to the Kicks visually.

I also say all of this as someone that prefers preferred Power Suit Samus (And Dark Samus).

 

[Gengar84]

I'm going to do something a bit more unusual for myself in that I'll try to analyze what I THINK will happen with the next Smash game.

• Based on what Sakurai said in one of his videos, I don't think Everyone Is Here is happening again. All the planets aligned for that to happen on Switch and it was a "Now or Never" thing.
• I think the base roster for the next game will be around 60-70 unique characters, not including Echo Fighters.
• Sakurai will definitely try to bring everyone back, but unlike Ultimate where getting all veterans back was the big priority, this time he will prioritize newcomers over veterans, which will lead to veterans getting cut in favor of newcomers.
• If a veteran character with an existing Echo Fighter gets cut, the Echo gets cut with them. If the veteran stays, the Echo stays.

Going series by series now, and again, this is all my personal speculation. Don't take any of this as me forcing anything down anyone's throats. And fair warning, I talk about "priorities" a lot:

Mario: Mario, Luigi, Bowser and Peach (and by extension Daisy) are all safe IMO. Rosalina and Bowser Jr. are probably close but I don't want to ensure it. Doc and Plant are at the bottom of the priority list, and I think Sakurai will prioritize at least one newcomer (either Captain Toad or Waluigi) over them.

Donkey Kong: This one's tough. I think Sakurai will prioritize the three veterans over a potential newcomer (99% likely to be Dixie), but I doubt Dixie will be prioritized over K. Rool.

Legend of Zelda: What a weird spot this series is in. For being one of Nintendo's most iconic series it's hard to believe they haven't had a newcomer since Brawl, and one that isn't Link since Melee. The trio of Link/Zelda/Ganondorf is definitely safe. Sheik could stay due to seniority, but I doubt we'll get both Toon and Young Link back. We might get a newcomer over Young Link, which could be some version of Impa. But it seems that with every Smash game there's people clamoring for the hot NPC character in the last Zelda game, which in the end we never get. Hope we do this time around.

Kirby: Sakurai will 100% bring his three babies back but no newcomer will be prioritized over them. Since Kirby is Sakurai's own series, whether Bandana Dee or Magolor or Marx or whoever potential newcomer happens will be entirely up to Sakurai and if he's in the mood to do so.

Warioware: Wario's safe. Nothing has really changed regarding this series since pre-Ultimate, so I don't think a newcomer here is a big priority in the grand scheme of things. Ashley has a legit shot due to popularity. Maaayyybe Mona. But anyone else from this series is probably too much of a reach.

Pokemon: The only series with a guaranteed newcomer spot based on Sakurai's own words. Pikachu is safe because DUH. I could see Charizard getting solo priority again in order to make room for the newcomer by cutting Squirtle and Ivysaur. Jigglypuff would probably have priority over Mewtwo but Sakurai would definitely try to bring both back. As for the non-Gen 1 Pokemon I could see being something like Lucario > Greninja > Incineroar > Pichu, although none will be prioritized over the newcomer (which could go to Gen 9 or 10 depending on timing).

Metroid: I don't think anything is changing here. Samus and Dark Samus are safe and ZSS and Ridley are likely high priority. I doubt we'll get a newcomer though.

Star Fox: Fox is safe. Falco maybe. Wolf could make it or not depending of dev time, as Sakurai had no issues cutting him once. I doubt we'll get a newcomer from this series given it hasn't seen much action lately.

Yoshi: Yoshi's safe. That's it. I doubt there's anything else happening with this series.

Kid Icarus: Same as Metroid, Pit and Dark Pit are safe and Palutena is high on the priority list. As much as I love Viridi and Hades I doubt we'll get a newcomer though.

Fire Emblem: Hoo boy. Where to begin? First thing first, Marth, and by extension Lucina, are safe. But that's it. None of the other FE veterans, all SIX of them, are in a position where I can say "Yeah, this character is definitely coming back". I feel that, when you account the reception of previous FE characters in past Smash games, FE veterans are going to be prioritized pretty low in the grand Smash roster, so FE will end with the most cut characters. If I had to predict, I think we will end with 4 cuts, so the FE base roster will be Marth, Lucina, plus two of Ike/Roy/Chrom/Robin/Corrin/Byleth... and a newcomer. Yes, I think we're still getting a FE newcomer in the next Smash, not because "it's what always happens" but mainly to make up for the massive Exodus of characters the series will likely get. The newcomer could be Alear, or Lyn or Celica or Seliph or the next FE MC or whoever. But I think a FE newcomer in the next Smash is happening. Also I want Alear with a taunt where they pet Sommie. Don't take that away from me.

F-Zero: Cap's safe. Probably no newcomer in the works, but as I said earlier I'd like to see Jody Summer as an Echo.

Earthbound: Ness' safe. Who knows with Lucas as he wasn't high priority back in Smash 4. I doubt we'll get a newcomer outside of maybe Ninten as a Ness Echo, but even that feels like a longshot.

Animal Crossing: Villager's safe. Isabelle probably as well. If we get a newcomer, I could see it being Tom Nook, but he's not being prioritized over the two veterans.

Splatoon: Inkling is 100% safe. I definitely feel we're getting a newcomer here with a semi-cloned Octoling. Given the series' success I can definitely see a newcomer being high priority.

ARMS: Min Min is probably staying due to the series sole rep. Not sure if a newcomer is happening unless ARMS 2 is in the works. My personal pick for a newcomer would be Twintelle, but who knows what'll happen.

And then there's all the series with a single rep, which include:

• Mr. Game and Watch
• ROB
• Duck Hunt
• Ice Climbers
• Little Mac
• Wii Fit Trainer

I think Sakurai will try to bring all of these characters back due to being their sole reps of their respective series with no much room for newcomers. Not sure in which order he will prioritize them, but they feel like this little group of characters that stick around together.

Oh, and the Miis. Yeah, I think those are safe. Although I'd like to see a couple of new variants to add to the potential representation, like Mii Dancer or Magician.

As for 1st Party series not yet repped, Ring Fit Trainee from Ring Fit Adventures feels like the only newcomer with a solid shot. I guess there's Astral Chain but I'm not sure how popular that one is. Every other series has been MIA for the Switch generation. Well, there's Another Code/Trace Memory, but I doubt that one.

Not talking about 3rd parties because there are way too many factors involved in those, making them very hard to predict or put in a priority list. Although I will say that personally, I think the legendary trio of Sonic, Mega Man and Pac-Man should be Smash mainstays.

As someone that really wants to see everyone return, I think these are pretty reasonable takes and I generally agree with you on the likelihood of each of these in terms of priority. As for new franchises, I’ll vouch for Astral Chain. I bought and completed that game and thought it was a lot of fun. Since it’s an action based, combat focused game, I think it’s in an ideal spot for a Smash rep. The game also had great music which is always a plus too. The only potential issue I see is with the complexity of the combat system but I’m sure Sakurai would be able to figure something out. If not for the protagonist, there’s a really cool antagonist in Jenna Anderson that would be awesome as well.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Zygarde for the next Smash game.

Okay, that was a joke, but I do legitimately wonder if support for it is going to gain traction depending on timing and how well it and Legends Z are received.

 

[Gengar84]

Zygarde for the next Smash game.

Okay, that was a joke, but I do legitimately wonder if support for it is going to gain traction depending on timing and how well it and Legends Z are received.

Zygard’s pretty cool. I wonder if they’d try to implement all three of its forms or just go with the complete form for simplicity. It’s not at the top of my list but no complaints here if that’s who they go with.

 

[fogbadge]

Zygard’s pretty cool. I wonder if they’d try to implement all three of its forms or just go with the complete form for simplicity. It’s not at the top of my list but no complaints here if that’s who they go with.

and then we get one of the cores as the fighter

 

[Shinuto]

Only because the Regional Variant Tinkaton figured out how to get a super-effective move/typing against Corviknight compared to their Paldean counterparts.

"Why don't we have a super effective move for the Corviknights mommy?".
It was lost to time sweetie."

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

corvikinght has advantage over tinkaton. the dex says it aims at corviknight it never said it ends well for tinkaton

That's Paldean Tinkaton.

We're talking Kalosan Tinkaton that could use Pyro Ball.


No I didn't derp on the region. You saw nothing.

 

[Gengar84]

"Why don't we have a super effective move for the Corviknights mommy?".
It was lost to time sweetie."

lol good thing it comes from a game with Terra types and Terra Blast so it at least has that but it was a weird oversight. Not quite to the level of Lickitung not learning Lick in Gen 1 but still.

 

[fogbadge]

That's Paldean Tinkaton.

We're talking Unovan Tinkaton that could use Pyro Ball.

and how do you know unovan korviknight wont still have the advantage?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I understand the ire towards ZSS. And I'd choose Ridley over her in a heart beat. I just don't think she's ever going to leave. She may be grandfathered in.

 

[Guynamednelson]

corvikinght has advantage over tinkaton. the dex says it aims at corviknight it never said it ends well for tinkaton

Tinkaton is still effective enough that Corviknight can't pilot Flying Taxis in Paldea.

 

[fogbadge]

Tinkaton is still effective enough that Corviknight can't pilot Flying Taxis in Paldea.

I think that’s more about the taxis themselves

 

[Gengar84]

I understand the ire towards ZSS. And I'd choose Ridley over her in a heart beat. I just don't think she's ever going to leave. She may be grandfathered in.

So what’s the logic of keeping ZSS but cutting Sheik? I’m not sure it’s the same people with both positions but they seem to be in a similar spot to me. I’d say if anyone, Sheik might outprioritize ZSS since she’s been around for an extra game. I know they’re both technically second versions of characters but Sheik feels more like her own character than ZSS both due to their names and the fact that each incarnation of Zelda is actually a different person.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

ZSS is just one of those characters that's become more popular for her appearance within the crossover series than her own series. Like how Captain Falcon is more known for Smash than F-Zero (since his home series is mostly defunct, I know we had that 99 game but that's a spinoff rather than a full new entry) and how Morrigan is more well known for Capcom VS games than Darkstalkers. Even Roy was sort of in this camp, being more popular in Smash than in the FE community (people liked Eliwood more than him), it wasn't until FE Heroes that he started regaining popularity.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

As for 1st Party series not yet repped, Ring Fit Trainee from Ring Fit Adventures feels like the only newcomer with a solid shot. I guess there's Astral Chain but I'm not sure how popular that one is. Every other series has been MIA for the Switch generation. Well, there's Another Code/Trace Memory, but I doubt that one.

What about Advance wars? Not saying it's super likely thanks to all the problems they had to released the game in the first place and lack of Japan release, but if anything it's probably more noteworthy than Another code of all thing.

I also think that Golden sun is worth mentionning despite being MIA for the Switch generation. While relevancy is one of the most important factor, we know it's not the only factor, because characters can be chosen based on fan request (K.Rool and Banjo where MIA for more than one console generation) or just for the surprise factor (Ice climbers and Duck hunt). I could see Isaac being actually high priority if they want specifically new franchise since the pool of possible new first party franchise is pretty small either way (like you said aside from Ring fit and Astral chain which I don't even see as that likely unless Astral chain 2 is a thing).

 

[Shinuto]

and how do you know unovan korviknight wont still have the advantage?

Kalosian you fools! Lumiose isn't in unova.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Kalosian you fools! Lumiose isn't in unova.

Yeah, who would make a mistake like that?

 

[fogbadge]

Kalosian you fools! Lumiose isn't in unova.

hey I was just saying what the other guy said

 

[Arcanir]

ZSS is an interesting case since she's one of the very few (if only) characters added that was specifically noted to fill a slot: A new Metroid and female character for Brawl. Now that we have Ridley and Dark Samus for the former (and latter in DS' case) that role she had is better filled and she does stick out among her peers and does feel like one of the most auxiliary characters on the roster. It also doesn't help that she carries some controversy over from her home series (Other M) and in Smash itself (her gameplay style clashing with Samus').

However, she is still a favorite among competitive players and does have three entries of Smash under her belt, so I wouldn’t count her out entirely. I do think Samus and Ridley will be higher priority than her, but where she stands among the rest of the cast depends on how the team approaches it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’ve got a question. What’s everyone’s basis on the idea that Impa should be a Sheik echo?

Because Impa deserves to be in the game, but Smash doesn't really need two separate Sheikah ninjas.

That said, I think Impa should actually be the unique Fighter, and then Sheik should be her Echo. Since Impa is an actual unique character and Sheik is just Zelda in cosplay.

I got a soft spot for Pangoro.

I mean there's like a 0.1% chance that it actually makes it, but dammit I think it'd be pretty cool.

I think he'd actually have a decent shot if they were insisting on having a Gen 6.

Especially if he's one of the ones that get's a new old-timey form like the ones Legends Arceus got.

 

[Ivander]

I think ZSS will stay just because aside from being one of the more popular characters competitively, she's probably one of the easier characters to model and animate. Aside from her Final Smash and B-Special Projectile, she doesn't have any additional components in her main moveset like transformations or attacks that replace a body part of hers, a summonable ally, a second character, etc.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I remember how many people said they almost had a heart attack after Sakurai made that joke that ZSS would be cut for a split second in that April Smash 4 trailer, and how many people were relieved to see her return. She certainly has a large fanbase in the community, I don't think she's in that much danger.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The Legends 2 year being 2025 now has me really curious because if the next system is not coming till next March and Pokémon's not our big holiday game this year... what is?

Since 2017 typically Nintendo's put out some form of significant release in the mid to late Fall before Christmas, with 2020 being the only real exception thanks to the pandemic (and even then, Age of Calamity was coming off of the big success of BotW). I'm genuinely curious if Nintendo can/will move things around or if this is basically going to be port/remake heavy even with the holiday season. Hypothetically there could be some other Pokémon release, but it seems likely they would have announced during today's presentation.

There are the Wii U HD Zelda ports believed to be done, the FE4 remake rumored to be coming at some point soon, and the still not released remasters of Metroid Prime 2 & 3, sure. I'm curious if that will be considered enough or if there's some other semi-notable franchise release that's not been leaked that will be positioned as the proverbial last hurrah for the Switch; one big enough to do significant sales, yet not that they'd prefer to save for the next system. I've seen some claiming Prime 4, which would be an interesting choice given Metroid's typically been a more modest success much of the time,

It's funny, I'm not a big Pokémon fan & yet the facts at today's presentation have me so much more intrigued about the rest of the year than I was 24 hours ago.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Zero Suit Samus felt novel in Brawl but very pointless from Smash 4 onwards. She's basically an original character, she literally has nothing from the Metroid series aside from her paralyzer (which appears for like 15 minutes in a single game) and the whip acting sorta like the Grappling Hook (which regular Samus already has anyways). Also the high heels are an eyesore.
It's actually pretty crazy how Samus without her suit has a fully original moveset with a ton of made-up stuff with pretty much no basis on the actual Metroid games, while Dark Samus with all her unique abilities is relegated to clone status. I mean, it makes sense with the way development has gone, but in a vacuum it's just baffling.

I have to say she fits a little better now that the new Metroid games have made Samus so acrobatic, which I'm not sure would work in Smash for regular Samus with all the projectiles she needs to have in order to feel like Samus, but yeah not a fan. Should have been Ridley or Dark Samus from the beginning.
I'm also biased though, in terms of how much I like to play as a character she's easily in my bottom 5. She just feels so unwieldy to me. Wouldn't personally miss her much if she got cut.

 

[DarthEnderX]

It's actually pretty crazy how Samus without her suit has a fully original moveset with a ton of made-up stuff with pretty much no basis on the actual Metroid games, while Dark Samus with all her unique abilities is relegated to clone status.

Hot Take: ZSS should never have been a transformation with a unique moveset in the first place. She should have just been an alt costume for Samus. That fights the same as Samus, just like in Metroid 1.

 

[Gengar84]

Hot Take: ZSS should never have been a transformation with a unique moveset in the first place. She should have just been an alt costume for Samus. That fights the same as Samus, just like in Metroid 1.

How did they handle the morph ball for ZSS in Metroid 1? I’m having a hard time picturing how that would work without her suit.

 

[Idon]

ZSS, Roy, and Sheik are characters that are defined by the fact that in any other circumstance, they would have NEVER made it in as they were. However, the popularity of their movesets and animations and visuals have made them far too entrenched in the Smash Bros scene to really ever be realistically fully cut, in my opinion at least. Hell, you could say this about much more characters (Like Falcon) but they are the ones most discussed when looking for easy exclusions.

At some point, it has to be accepted that the fact a character comes from an actual series is more of a trivia fact than an integral part of their smash bros identity.

I won't cry tears to see most of these go... but I wouldn't hold my breath either.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How did they handle the morph ball for ZSS in Metroid 1? I’m having a hard time picturing how that would work without her suit.

She just curls up really tightly.

 

[SPEN18]

will flygon finally get his mega?

I'm pretty sure Flygon is a creation hated by its creators at this point /j

with ZSS it feels like it is actively detracting from Samus’ potential. Samus can stay sluggish and play campy because ZSS is the in your face speedy and agile one. When really, Samus should be able to find a balance between these elements and they should be informing the whole package.

And like SPEN said, with Ridley here ZSS’s job is pretty much done. Metroid has real supporting characters now.

It bothers me maybe more than it should that the Samus in the Power Suit feels like the one that struggles to do anything aside from spit missiles and charge shots at you. Literally antithetical to how this dynamic is supposed to work… I know Samus is better this game, but she still doesn’t feel very good for me to control.

Going back to a previous discussion, this is similar to Charizard getting kind of gypped in terms of what he can do in part because he has to be designed to foil his counterparts.

People talk about making Samus feel like her Dread incarnation, but honestly even Super and Fusion Samus make her Smash incarnation look super dated lol.

Well it isn't the first time Samus could be seen fighting unarmored, at least.

If you're referring to Metroid 1, well, that was the very game that Zero Mission was remaking, with the unarmored Samus merely intended as a post-game bonus. Point is, it's hardly something that would typically garner a whole separate fighter slot unless it was a clone variant like Dr. Mario.

her continued presence is owed strictly to Sakurai at this point

I mean Ult had EiH so the only time she could've been cut was Smash 4. It's like a lot of characters: it seems on the surface like they're a fixture but it's hard to really say that for sure when there's realistically been at most one time they could've been cut.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't necessarily disagree with the people saying ZSS has a good chance of returning, I'm pretty much 50/50 on her odds myself. But by all means, in the scope of such a big roster and when the question of cuts is posed... why is Zero Suit Samus not considered an inessential or low priority character? What dictates who is worthy of being grandfathered in and who is susceptible to get left behind?

Because yeah, the Zero Suit itself has become somewhat iconic. Surely even if ZSS was cut as a fully fledged original character, it would probably be retooled into a new victory pose for Samus and under ideal and fairly unlikely circumstances some sort of helmet-less alternate costume. But if we're hypothetically seeing upwards of 20 cuts next game, I think it becomes more and more difficult to justify including an alternate version of Samus over a completely different, similarly popular character just because she's been here a little bit longer and she's got sex appeal. I find those to be very weak reasons, and they similarly apply to other characters offering more in the realm of representation and gameplay function . If she made it and any of the one-rep first party series got the boot, or over more "on the bubble" supplemental picks from smaller IPs like Wolf or Palutena, I'd be a little mad that's where the priority was placed.

Laying it out as unbiased as I can, what is Zero Suit Samus adding to the roster? Her stun gun and electric whip are pretty unique. Archetypically she isn't doing anything too bold but she has some tools that other characters do not. That's a solid enough reason to keep her on paper, although in fairness I think that applies to most characters on the roster. It's just as much reason to keep Sheik, Incineroar or Piranha Plant. Beyond that, we're looking at a tertiary priority character for Metroid who hasn't been prominently utilized in the recent games and is only here because she used to be attached to Samus.

So how does Sheik roll into this? I'm also not 100% certain that Sheik will be returning, but I would sooner endorse her to return than ZSS. She's a different version of Zelda, but she is technically a different Zelda and really does not call very much attention to it. She fulfills a more defined archetype, one of the defacto rushdown characters in the game and is a pure ninja. And if we're playing the seniority card, has been here even longer. Might be splitting hairs, I'm sure someone will disagree and see this as more comparable than I do, but I think Sheik has several more reasons to stay than Zero Suit does. I've never been outright the biggest Sheik fan either but I do think her role on the roster is pretty valuable... and unfortunately, as it stands, we don't have very many fully unique Zelda characters without her lol.

Looping back around to the initial ZSS question, why do we need to protect her? Everyone is at least a little popular, everyone is gonna have fans who are upset when they're removed from the game. I personally don't see why ZSS should be held in any higher esteem, as a character who is offering little in the realm of roster dynamics, representation or fulfilling anything especially relevant or important to Metroid in present day. Not saying this means she's getting cut, I'm just having trouble figuring out why she'd be worth bringing back over anyone else.

 

[fogbadge]

I'm pretty sure Flygon is a creation hated by its creators at this point /j

does /j mean joke?

 

[NintenRob]

I like having a version of Samus on the roster that lets you see Samus herself. I think it lets players connect with her more.


Thing is though, the same thing can be accomplished by just letting Samus take her helmet off. So Zero Suit does usually end up low priority on my rosters anyway.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

People talk about making Samus feel like her Dread incarnation, but honestly even Super and Fusion Samus make her Smash incarnation look super dated lol.

But Smash Samus is literally based on Super Metroid Samus.