Newcomers - Just fine, or Too little?

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Since we probably won't be getting to many villains at this point,if any. I'm hopping Smash 5 gives the villains the treatment that the female characters got this time around, with over doubling the amount of them their are.

Yep. Sakurai has solved the issue of few females, but now we're lacking in antagonists. Why can't we have many females AND many villains?

 

[Nstinct]

To all the people wondering why their isn't more villains, perhaps Sakurai thinks of Villains as characters you've already battled against and defeated. Besides villains aren't the "most popular" characters in a game "most" of the time, the person everyone knows better are the heroes they play as. For instance I've played a couple Donkey Kong games but I didn't know King K Rool until I google'd him, albeit I've played few DK games. But typically people will recognize the hero before the villain.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

I feel like part of the reason people get disappointed or hateful of certain characters is because they limit themselves to certain types, and also misinterpret certain characters too.

The two types that seem so commonly requested are badass/beastly looking characters (Ridley, Black Shadow, Magnus etc), that fit in with characters like Fox, Falco, Samus, etc. Because those guys look like they are more for an older, testosterone fueled crowd.

The other type is "iconic/old" characters (Pac-Man, Toad, Daisy, etc, are the sort of characters that were requested for pretty much this reason, and nothing else).

And personally I hate that mindset, because characters shouldn't get a free pass because they look cool and intimidating, or they are simply well-known.

I also find asking for characters because they look intimidating or badass to be hilariously ironic because half of the time, those characters would lose to the "babyish" or "too cutesy" characters.

I mean, call Rosalina "uuuggh shes just a wimpy little Blue Peach" all you want, but:

Don't try and tell me she ain't badass enough to be in Smash, she would absolutely obliterate Ridley with her canon abilities (even if he is "too big" ).

I could say the same about Palutena too, and just in general, I think the phrase "never judge a book by it's cover" applies really well to Smash.

I love my catoony characters. Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Kirby, Ness, Toon Link, DK and Diddy. I have never been crazy about beastly characters like Ridley or Mewtwo. "Never judge a book by it's cover" applies to Nintendo in general. A lot of the cutest characters are deadly and powerful.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

To all the people wondering why their isn't more villains, perhaps Sakurai thinks of Villains as characters you've already battled against and defeated. Besides villains aren't the "most popular" characters in a game "most" of the time, the person everyone knows better are the heroes they play as. For instance I've played a couple Donkey Kong games but I didn't know King K Rool until I google'd him, albeit I've played few DK games. But typically people will recognize the hero before the villain.

I have no idea why Sakurai would have such a mindset, but I guess it's possible. They may not be the most popular in their games, but they are sill popular. King K. Rool is a highly requested character all across the world. I shouldn't even have to explain Ridley. Smash brings together Nintendo's greats, and I would definitely say villains are a part of those greats.

Edit: Sorry for the double post, won't happen anymore.

 

[Booster]

What do you all think of the newcomers? What if the characters listed below are the only newcomers? Will you be happy or angry if that's the case?

Confirmed: Pac-Man, Palutena, Mii Fighters, Greninja, Little Mac, Rosalina & Luma, Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer
Rumored: Shulk, Chorus Men, Chrom

Character announcements are usually exciting, but my friends have NOT been thrilled by the new character announcements thus far, and nor are they happy about the rumored characters. They hate the idea of Pac-Man being playable. I'm not entirely sure why they're so against him, to be honest, something about him not being relevant, or not someone they wanted to play as. Regarding Rosalina and Palutena, most of them are like, "We asked for them?" Fortunately they are at least happy with Greninja and Mega Man...

When I ask them what characters they would have liked to have seen revealed instead, they don't really have much to suggest, besides impossible request such as Goku, so I'm stumped here. And if I suggest Ridley, they don't want him either... Have any of you noticed this with your friends?

Personally I quite like the newcomers as far. My favorite announced character as far would have to be Palutena or Little Mac. My most wanted character that is rumored would have to be Shulk, and dream character... Ridley.

Angry because there's too joke characters. Chorus Men? Villager? Wii ****ing Fit Trainer? Mii Fighter?

 

[SuperMii3D]

Angry because there's too joke characters. Chorus Men? Villager? Wii ****ing Fit Trainer? Mii Fighter?

Calling out 3 of my mains doesnt bode well with me. They may be "joke" characters (I dont even think Mii is a joke character) but they are still viable fighters nonetheless.

 

[Meelow]

I will have the see the rest of the remaining of course and play them, but I am most hyped to play as Shulk and Pac-Man.

 

[Pyra]

Angry because there's too joke characters. Chorus Men? Villager? Wii ****ing Fit Trainer? Mii Fighter?

And they're all great characters. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You know what the beauty is, though? "Bad" or "Great" is subjective, and opinions are never facts.

 

[DJ3DS]

Many of the newcomers are ones that I would never have considered but there are a couple there I look forward to, so I'm satisfied.

What I don't understand is the "Worse roster than Brawl" complaints, given that the majority of the Brawl roster is expected to return by most people. Unless you are a massive fan of a Brawl vet that has been cut/is expected to be then that complaint seems nonsensical to me.

 

[majorasmaskfan]

Many of the newcomers are ones that I would never have considered but there are a couple there I look forward to, so I'm satisfied.

What I don't understand is the "Worse roster than Brawl" complaints, given that the majority of the Brawl roster is expected to return by most people. Unless you are a massive fan of a Brawl vet that has been cut/is expected to be then that complaint seems nonsensical to me.

I think they meant brawl had better newcomers.

 

[ChikoLad]

I think most people who supported ridley enjoyed rosalina as a newcomer considering the shipping fan art that started in that thread months ago.

Oh...do go on....

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Angry because there's too joke characters. Chorus Men? Villager? Wii ****ing Fit Trainer? Mii Fighter?

I'm not so sure you understand what a joke character is...

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I think people are bound to be disappointed at this point. Brawl kind of hit the nail on the head when it came to including most of the main characters from nintendos lead franchises and then some. The smash 4 roster kind of seems inflated imo.

 

[itsaxelol]

all smash 4 needed to do for so many people was add 4 characters

mega man
ridley
rool
mewtwo

and then a good chunk of these people wouldnt have cared if chrous buys or pits girlfriend or any of these other jabronis were in. i still cant believe that only mega man is going to make it. i even thought those bottom 3 would be in brawl..

it goes without saying that i hate this roster. love mega man, mac is cool, neutral on pacman. then everything else, to me, is bs garbage

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

Yes, because she's probably the most controversial choice from what I've seen on here, on Tumblr, and on other places, even more than Wii Fit Trainer.

Also, what's the WiR poll?

The Week in Review, the web-magazine thingy here in the Wii U boards that summarises the pics of the day and any major events/announcements for Smash 4 that happen every week.

They had a (pre-E3) newcomer popularity poll and she won it, even beating the giant that is Megaman. ...Unless I'm remembering it wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Guaranteed if Smash 64 was being released in this day people would have been ****ting on the whole roster.

Fox?? He drives a plane, how the **** will he fight?

Captain Falcon?? Great another ****ing pilot.. Is he going to drive his car over everyone?

Yoshi is so stupid, would he just lick people to death?

Jigglypuff... are you on ****ing drugs???

What the **** is a Ness?

Luigi.. a ****ing clone of Mario taking up valuable roster space... great.

 

[Yodude57]

I like all of the new characters, and if the remaining 3 are all that's left, I'd be okay with that. Sure, it's great to pit certain characters against each other, but really, my favorite part of Smash Bros. is the gameplay. Prior to playing Melee for the first time at a friend's, I'm embarrassed to admit I only knew who the Mario characters, Kirby, and Pikachu were. It wasn't until I was older that I got a Nintendo console for the first time, so really, I was introduced to basically every character through Smash. As such, I don't get as much of a thrill from pitting Mario against Link as others do. What I look for in a character is how they play rather than who they are. Thus far, all the character (with the exception of the Mii) look like they will add a lot to the game in terms of how they play, and how one will play against them. I withold all judgements toward possible future characters until I see them in action. I have faith Sakurai and the team will be able to make them work, and work well. (Even Chrom) Miis on the other hand, are more or less customizable characters in the form of the Mii. I had always wanted such a feature, but I never thought it would happen. "Fan-favorites" such as Ridley or King K. Rool do nothing for me, as I have no connection to them. Their exclusion does not soil the roster for me. I have no doubt though, that they could be just as interesting as the existing cast if done right.

tl;dr: I'd only hate a roster of characters if none of them diversified the gameplay in terms of matchups and whatnot.

This is exactly how I felt when I played brawl for the first time, the first smash bros game I ever played. I played a character based on how they felt not thier legacy of their games. Just like you I got to know these characters from brawl not from their game of origin. Some people seem to think that Sakurai is doing wrong by them. But what it really is is that Sakurai, or anyone for that matter, can't satisfy everyone. So since smash, at least to me, seems to be focused on casual play, showing off nintendo franchises, and trying to include as many gamers as possible (aka appealing to as many people as possible). Character selection and gameplay will be based of off these premises. People seem to have a hard time understanding this. And I hope people reading this post will either reply to it or at least understand where I am coming from. I also hope no one takes the wrong way as I'm not intending to bash on people.

 

[Deleted member]

all smash 4 needed to do for so many people was add 4 characters

mega man
ridley
rool
mewtwo

and then a good chunk of these people wouldnt have cared if chrous buys or pits girlfriend or any of these other jabronis were in. i still cant believe that only mega man is going to make it. i even thought those bottom 3 would be in brawl..

it goes without saying that i hate this roster. love mega man, mac is cool, neutral on pacman. then everything else, to me, is bs garbage

Uh...

Mewtwo isn't a newcomer.
He could still be in the game.

 

[FancysaurusRex]

Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Ridley only popular over here? I remember him not being requested very much at all in Japan.

 

[Shroob]

Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't Ridley only popular over here? I remember him not being requested very much at all in Japan.

Metroid in general isn't that popular in Japan, though, that could just be an old-wive's tale.

 

[Frank Weast]

I was happy with the roster at Megaman, then so many strange characters appeared and I got really happy especially Greninja, Mac, and Wii fit

 

[Dracometeor]

Ridley is the dumbest character idea I've ever heard of. If they actually add Ridley it would be because of how much every whines and complains about wanting him, then him actually deserving or fitting the spot in any significant way.

 

[Saikyoshi]

So far, Mega Man, Villager, and Little Mac are the only additions that make any obvious sense.

Pac-Man, Palutena, and the Miis are way too divisive. Greninja and Rosalina are minor characters who aren't important to their series at all. Wii Fit Trainer honestly just seems like a ploy to get Smash players to get some exercise.

Of course I'm going to play as them, but these newcomers are no Wario or King Dedede.


(*I'm SORT OF willing to give Greninja a pass because of how popular he turned out to be in Competitive G6, but Sakurai didn't know that at the time.)

 

[Fatmanonice]

I've largely stopped caring because I'm going to play the game for years to come regardless. If Gematsu is true, I got all my favorite veteran characters back so there's 8 () characters that I legitimately enjoy playing as right there. I'm already sold on while interests me a lot too. As for everyone else, I won't know until I get the game in my hands. Either way, it's highly likely that I'm going to have close to a dozen characters that I have a lot of fun playing as and that leaves me with a lot of options for mains and secondaries.

 

[ShadowMarth14]

I want Chrom.


I trust i am in the majority here.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Despite the newcommers not having the "wow, important characters" factor like Brawl's newcommer had, I'm still pleased a lot with the actual roster.

In fact, I love more newcommers for now.

Brawl had and made me think "I'M GONNA PLAY THEM". I now play thanks to Uprising.

But Smash 4? , ,,, (all 3 styles), all have a huge appeal to me. The fun thing is, all of them can be female And despite thinking that the Chorus Mens are not the best Rhythm Heaven choice, I'd gladly play them.

Now, I think some characters would be missing if those are the only newcommers. Donkey Kong really had a bad representation in Brawl (no AT, no barrel cannon, and while 75m is my guilty pleasure, the stage weren't good). I'm not a K. Rool supporter, yet I think he deserve clearly more than a simple trophy. Same applies to Dixie.
Metroid, on the other hand got a good treatment this time to me, with those AT, and at least Ridley is here for sure.

I also would feel like a "real retro character" would be missing. And Medusa, obviously

But even with missing things, I do love the newcommers.

 

[SKM_NeoN]

My favorite characters tend to be antagonists. Needless to say I'm not excited with this current list of newcomers. I guess I could always make a Hitler Mii Fighter...

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

My favorite characters tend to be antagonists. Needless to say I'm not excited with this current list of newcomers. I guess I could always make a Hitler Mii Fighter...

I know right? There's just something awesome about antagonists that the heroes just don't have.

 

[itsaxelol]

Uh...

Mewtwo isn't a newcomer.
He could still be in the game.

i said add four characters. never did i say mewtwo is a newcomer. so i dont know why youre getting at me

yes, he could, but he most likely isnt. you have a getmatsu sig. cmon lol

 

[Deathcarter]

I HATE the Miis and Chorus Men but I know there not in to appeal to me so I'll deal with them.

I'm against Chrom partially because I feel Robin brings way more to Smash while being equally important to Chrom and partially because I feel Chrom would negatively impact Ike and Marth, making the similarities between the FE reps way too pronounced as opposed to the nice contrast Ike and Marth have with each other already.

I like all the other newcomers and I still believe K. Rool and Mewtwo are waiting in the wings.

 

[nuclearneo577]

When I first heard that Smash 4 was being made, I was excited to see a bunch of characters from already represented franchises (like more Mario characters) and more franchises getting represented (Animal Crossing, Punch-Out!!, etc), more third party characters (Mega Man and Pac-Man) and the chance of characters that I wanted to be added (somebody from Advance Wars, I didn't ever really care who it was). Kinda like Brawl all over again.

Then over time, I kinda got more comfortable with there being less of an emphasis on new characters for two reasons. First, they're made pretty good choices so far. And second, the customizations will surely make up for a few characters that I might have wanted to be added not making the cut. Heck, even if only Miis had custom movesets I would be happy.

Anyway, if we ended up getting the characters from Gemastu leak, King K. Rool, RIdley, Mewtwo and Ganondorf with a new moveset I'd call it a perfect roster.

 

[Violenceman]

Well, I had anticipated 10 newcomers originally. The fact that we are getting number 10 tomorrow and we are only near the bottom of the newcomer videos means that we will be getting more characters than I thought we would. So in terms of number of newcomers, I am pleased.

I would have liked at least one more of my newcomer wish list to make it in (Isaac, Andy, Mike Jones), as so far Mega Man is the only one, but I am pretty stoked about the ones we have gotten that I never knew I wanted (Wii Fit Trainer!).

I am not that excited for the rumored reveals (probably biased as I have not played Awakening, Xenoblade, or Rhythm Heaven), but I fully expect to have my opinions do a 180 once I see them in action.

 

[Curious Villager]

I usually don't really have overly big desires when it comes to new playable characters. There is usually only one character I want the most in every game whereas the rest are more or less just cherries on top.

I would have liked to see Layton in Smash but I suppose he's just a pipe dream. Anyway, I've more or less decided that I'm going to main the Villager for these games so I'm not in any overly need for a bunch of new characters, so long as and at least and hopefully are in the game then it's more or less all cool with me.

 

[Kapus]

Some of my favorites and preferred characters are still missing from the roster, but the great thing about these newcomers so far is how unique and creative they are with their movesets. Sakurai really made an effort to make each character stand out in their own way, and it certainly shows. I'm really happy with that fact alone, and I'm sure I'm going to have a ton of fun.

I can't really complain that much when I got Mega Man, anyway.

 

[peachy!]

Rosalina and Palutena so far. If the rumor turns out to be true, then I cannot wait to see Shulk in action. He's also one that I look forward to.

 

[Dracometeor]

As long as Mario is in the game then I'm happy.

 

[Moldy Clay]

Of the list, I wanted Little Mac, Shulk, and Greninja (but as part of a new Pokemon Trainer). I wanted Pac-Man when Namco was revealed to be working on it.

I did not want Wii Fit Trainer, Mii, or Rosalina (no real reason, I like her). The rest I didn't think of or didn't care either way.

However, I have been nothing short of excited after seeing EVERY ONE of the fighters so far. I have NOT been disappointed, and the characters I did not want won me over immediately.

I don't have any friends in real life that are disappointed, but I see tons of people online and don't really get why. There's irrational hate for many of them. Especially Pac-Man. And it's like, the only characters people seem to want are cluster****s of obscure retro characters, weird Japan-only guys, Fire Emblem characters with no real significance, and BAW MORE CHARACTERS FROM THIS FRANCHISE, THIS ONE DOESN'T DESERVE THIS MANY.

Oh, and Ridley, K.Rool and Mewtwo back.

And really, that's what most of us want, but many people, I would hope, realize SSB is a glorified promotional wagon for Nintendo franchises. It's a celebration of their & gaming history, and getting you into games/franchises you didn't before.

Recent games ARE part of their history, and the series HAS most of the key classic characters. It's missing a few villains and maybe one or two more characters. Brawl was about mostly filling in those key characters, while SSB4 is celebrating their newer franchises mostly. And there are tons more.

Whether you like it or not, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Miis, new generations of Pokemon, and potentially Xenoblade are all relevant to Nintendo and are part of what they are now. Most of the games we're getting newcomers from are million sellers. It's just how it is.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Number isn't a problem to me at all. I can't say I'm thrilled by the quality though.

I'd suggest the majority aren't exactly full of star power outside the Third Parties, Rosalina, Villager and arguably Mii. Hell; Japan only remembers Little Mac because of Captain Rainbow, a game hardly anyone bought, but at least he's good for the west. We like him, but he lacks universal recognition.

I also find it particularly weird that despite the amount of female characters being added this time, Nintendo have skipped over the second most heroic female character after Samus Aran in Dixie Kong; a female protagonist who never got kidnapped to my recollection, is a pretty big deal as the tritagonist of the DKC games; a series many were clamouring for a newcomer from and recently reappeared in Tropical Freeze.

She's absolutely perfect in all senses; current advertisement, nostalgia appeal, a world wide recognized character from an under represented series, ease of creation(because yes she can use Diddy Kong's base model similar to how Puff used Kirby's in Smash 64) and she was originally planned for Brawl. Girl has some star power behind her.

Her exclusion doesn't make much sense at all from either a business point of view, a celebration of Nintendo's history point of view or from a fan service point of view(in that she's a popular character, not the bikini variety). Especially when the emphasis is on adding good female characters this time round, you really don't get much better than Dixie Kong.

As many have said I was also expecting at least one heavy weight character, and one villain character. Thus far we haven't had either.

 

[Saikyoshi]

As many have said I was also expecting at least one heavy weight character, and one villain character. Thus far we haven't had either.

I'm not a Ridley fan, but he'd satisfy both along with bringing something unique to the table in being the first aerial-based heavyweight.

That's why I'm personally rooting for him despite not really liking the character much at all, along with the fact that he's like the aforementioned Wario and King Dedede in terms of relevance. He'd be wasted as a stage hazard.

I will stress this: I'm not a fan of Ridley. But someone like him is what we need to bring the newcomer roster back into the land of relevance.

Whether you like it or not, Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Miis, new generations of Pokemon, and potentially Xenoblade are all relevant to Nintendo and are part of what they are now. Most of the games we're getting newcomers from are million sellers. It's just how it is.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on Greninja, although not neccesarily on newer generations in general.

The thing about Pokémon is that it has 721+ characters of near-identical importance. That's why Pikachu, Lucario, and Mewtwo made it in - they had to pull from something else to decide a rep.

Greninja's relevance was a total accident. He was literally just pulled from the pile of new characters for the sake of being new at the time of his inclusion.

It's also why I will never understand why so many people are asking for Sceptile - he wasn't even relevant back when he was relevant, losing out to the memetic Mudkip and popular Torchic lines.