Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[YoshiandToad]

Zelda: Aside from Impa, I'm struggling to figure out who else could get in there. She's literally the only other recurring character from the Zelda franchise not yet to appear in any capacity in Smash Bros. Well, that and Tingle, who has yet to be revealed as an Assist Trophy. Anybody looking forward to Tingle possibly joining the battle? I know I'm not.

Star Fox: With Krystal disconfirmed, the only other character might be Slippy Toad. And honestly, who'd want that? No, seriously! I don't even know how popular with fans this character might be.

I actually think general disposition towards both Tingle and Slippy has slightly improved in recent years due to Hyrule Warriors and Starfox Guard respectively.

Slippy can offer a unique turret based gameplay(unless Dillon takes it first which isn't entirely unlikely) that would seperate him from the standard Spacey moveset thanks to all the robots, turrets and traps Guard gave him to use, and Tingle is basically Balloon Fighter but with more to work such as the ability to carpet bomb the stage from above and being superior in the air to the ground like a reverse Little Mac.

Honestly I think both would be fun to play as if implemented in that way and if you don't like them? Well now you can punch them in the face. Win-win.

 

[Spirit Toons]

The point still stands that you can’t conclusively say that every character added to Smash was because of relevance and recent appearances. You could have just as easily claimed Marth as an NES rep, that doesn’t make it true.

Even if that were true, this Smash is, appears, and has been sold on the basis of being different: the Ultimate game for Smash fans. If you could argue that newcomers were added for relevance’s sake, that is definitely not the case for the return of every single veteran, like Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu or even Solid Snake (whose last appearance in Metal Gear barring cameos was 10 years ago). The premise of this game appears to be to please the fanbase, and so far it is doing so with heavily requested characters like Ridley and Daisy. K. Rool would definitely fit that mold.

And by the way, K. Rool not having appeared in recent Donkey Kong games doesn’t mean he isn’t still the main villain of the franchise, or the most iconic.

I think I still have a point but how about I end this. The Switch as a console is about the breaking of tradition through the building of years of hard work. This Smash is probably the same as the switch as every Smash appears to represent the console it’s on.

Melee - the most competitive Smash on the console that last tried to compete in the video game market

Brawl - an easy and casual experience to represent the more casual Wii System

Wii U/ 3DS - Has no real identity and tries to cater to the core, being both casual and competitive because Nintendo didn’t know the audience of the Wii U and desperately tried to cater to both

The Switch as a system is the mix of all previous consoles with games whose main goal is to break tradition. I think the new Smash represents it well, bringing in all previous characters from Smash and stages it seems. It also gets the competitive angle that the Switch is now pushing.

Maybe more fan favorites will get in to break tradition, in which case cool, but Smash has had a history of mainly picking new comers from the games in between Smashes, which was what I was trying to point out. This Smash may handle things differently though because the Switch is a very different Nintendo console with a very different Nintendo running it, but my best guess would be that many new comers will be based on the last years of Wii U and first year of Switch.

So expect characters such as;
Celica (Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia)
Captain Toad (Captain Toad Treasure Tracker)
Spring Man (ARMS)
Impa (Main character from Zelda appearing in all 3D entries, became huge after her inclusion in Warriors)
Decidueye (Pokémon Sun and Moon + Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon)
Bandana Dee (Kirby Star Allies and Kirby Battle Royal)
Rex and Pyra (Xenoblade Chronicles 2)
Rayman (Rayman Legends Definitive Edition, plus a Ubisoft mascot after Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle)
Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo Ziplash)
Dixie Kong (Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze + was popular on Smash Ballot)
Slippy Toad (Both a joke character and from the recent Star Fox Guard and Zero)
Shovel Knight/ Steve/ Shante/ Mr Video (Nindie Rep)
Shadow the Hedgehog (Sonic Forces as he’s a main playable character)
And maybe even a Bethesda character?

I feel that these characters would take top priority before any new comer, but don’t lose hope as if Smash is believed to be breaking tradition, than maybe some fan favorites would join, but I’m just not betting on it.

 

[Chrollo.]

So... Vergeben said that at bare minimum we’ll be getting a half a dozen (6) more characters. I’d say at minimum is very important here because that doesn’t mean we wont get anymore than 6. He even said he doesn’t know the rest of the roster. He also said that he’s not sure if Echo Fighters are included in that 6. But going off the assumption that he’s right, here’s what I think;

1. (Likely) King K Rool - When you’re adding the absolutely most fan requested characters to the game, K Rool comes to mind. Sakurai said that the only reason why he added Ridley was due to fan outcry, and the same happened with Snake (And its safe to assume that the outcry for Snake was what gave Sakurai the idea for Smash Ultimate), so really, K Rool is one of those “has to be” cases. Sakurai is definitely aware since he included that Mii Costume as DLC in Smash 4. If there was a good time to add K Rool, it’d be now.

2. Dixie Kong (Likely) - Dixie is in a similar boat to K Rool, except she was actually planned to be playable in Brawl. While she doesn’t have as much as an outcry like K Rool, her fanbase is still strong, and the lack of representation of the DK series has been a problem in Smash for years. Now, I’m not entirely sure if she’d be a completely unique character, a Semi-Clone of Diddy, or an Echo. Dixie is definitely too unique to be the last two, especially the latter, but Ganondorf shouldn’t have been a Falcon clone in Melee. Yet he was. Never put it below Sakurai.

3. A Gen 7 Pokemon Rep (Likely). It’s either Decidueye or Mimikyu. Sakurai doesn’t choose the Pokemon Rep (In terms of the new Generations, I mean) so it’s up in the air. Mimikyu is more popular overall so there’s a chance The Pokemon Company/Gamefreak chooses Mimikyu, but Decidueye is way more requested for Smash AND Decidueye was put in Pokken so it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s Decideueye. It’s a toss up between those two.

4. Simon Belmont (Possibly) - Simon’s status is way up in the air for me. While it is safe to assume Vergeben is right due to his other E3... as I’ve said many times before in both this thread and the Ridley thread (Before E3), Vergeben has a habit of getting some right while still getting some wrong. Konami’s E3 embarago ends on Wednesday, so if they showed one of the two Castlevania titles he reported and they are revealed, then I’d say he’s likely. However, Konami did brag about the success from the Castlevania Anime, so that does open a door for Simon in Smash if they’re truly planning on reviving Castlevania.

5. Dark Samus (Possibly) - I’m gonna outright say this: I think with the theme of every character and more than likely every stage coming back, that also means every Assist, Items, and Pokeball Pokemon will be back. So Dark Samus’ Assist Trophy not appearing right now doesnt mean that much, BUT Samus’ Dark Samus skin does raise questions as there would absolutely be no reason to remove it if she wasn’t playable. It makes absolutely no sense. She’d most likely be an Echo, although she does have a unique moveset of her own in the Prime games.

6. Chrom (Possible) - He’s yet another victim of a random palette swap and we haven’t seen Robin’s final smash yet, though the latter doesn’t really mean much right now. However, we do know Sakurai did originally plan Chrom to be in Smash 4, and the outcry from Chrom not being playable was real so I think he has enough of a case to be playable. He’d more than likely be an Echo of Ike, though. A lot of people think they’d just go with a new FE rep from the new game, but I think its more likely a rep from that game would be DLC as Corrin was.

Now, with that out of the way, going off the fact that he said that is the bare minimum of how many newcomers are left, I’m gonna go off my original assumption that there’d be 13 characters in total, which adds 4 more to this list, as I don’t see anything above 13. And I’m speaking under the assumption that Echo fighters are included in the bare minimum of 6.

Other possible characters:

Shadow - He’s another victim of not having his Assist Trophy shown. Shadow is by far the second most popular Sonic character, and he is rather requested for Smash. In fact I do remember a lot of disappointment from when he was revealed to be an Assist yet again in Smash 4. On top of that, Shadow is one of the most popular Assist Trophies so not showing him off at E3 and deconfirming him along with other fan favorites (Which was definitely intentional, especially in Waluigi’s case) is strange. However, it’s still possible that him and Knuckles both co-exist as Assists, so it is too early to jump the gun about his status. If he was for some reason removed as being an Assist and he ISNT playable, then its weird replacing him with someone less popular than him. Shadow is definitely unique enough to be his own character, but I think the most likely outcome is him being either a Semi-Clone or an Echo if he’s playable.

Chorus Kids - We know that a Rhythm Heaven rep was scrapped from Smash 4, and it was more than likely the Chorus Kids, probably not working due to the 3DS hardware. So I think it’s safe to think they’ll be in Ultimate due to that. Rhythm Heaven is crazy popular in Japan, afterall.

Edit: I forgot about Bandanna Dee, who has more of a chance than ever since Nintendo as a whole saw the popularity of him and has started making the push of having him playable

Mach Rider - Smash always gets a retro rep (i.e. G&W, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., DHD) and we know Mach Rider was considered for Melee, and he did have a bit of support during Smash 4 speculation. It wouldn’t surprise me if he finally makes it in. Most definitely would be a Falcon Echo, though.

Isaac - Isaac is a strange case. He was an Assist in Brawl but removed in Smash 4 for blatantly no reason. I’m just gonna keep it real simple and with this game being centered around fan service, Isaac has more of a chance than ever. And if EVERY Assist Trophy does return, if he isn’t shown that either means my assumption was wrong or he might actually be playable.

Captain Toad - Has a strong ass fanbase and has been requested for quite awhile. Especially now with how Nintendo is pushing his own series, I think he has more of a chance than ever. A lot of people are also speculating that Daisy not using Toadette in her Neutral B lends credibility to Toad being playable but I don’t think it means much. Modeling Toadette would’ve probably taken a lot more time than just reskinning Toad, and I don’t think it impacts Toad’s chances at all.

Rayman - I think with how strong the relationship has gotten between Ubisoft and Nintendo, and how much support Rayman has gotten, he has more of a chance than he did in Smash 4. However, the Rabbids are also an option, although I think they’ll be an assist trophy

Crash & Spyro - I’m keeping these as a package deal as their fanbase are more or less the same, but I think they’re more likely to be DLC. Crash more than Spyro though due to his remasters being ported, but I think its safe to assume the Spyro remasters will be ported soon anyway. I’m only mentioning them as I do think its a slight chance Crash gets in, but I think its more likely we see them both as DLC.

Shovel Knight - Has quite a bit support for him, but I think he’s more likely as DLC than being in the base game. I can totally see him as a Nindie rep though.

Elma - This all comes down to fan service. Elma quickly became one of the most requested Xenoblade Characters, but I can see them opting for Rex & Pyra since their game is new and the DLC comes out in September. Elma does have more fan support though, and with this game being centered around fan service I can see her happening.

Anyhow, what Vergeben said shouldn’t be taken 100% as fact, and I can see that bare minimum stuff being taken as the most we’ll get instead of the least, but these are just my current picks and assumptions. The latter list being I’m not completely sure of but they’re possible. It’s fun to speculate.

 

[Takasmash]

Can anyone confirm Rainbow Road and Paper Mario are coming back I hope so because they make so much with many reasons

 

[SmashChu]

I’ve commented about this before and have gotten hate, but I think many Smash characters are picked for the sole purpose of selling the newest titles between Smash games (excluding the usually 1-2 Retro NES or older reps). While Smash is by no means a commercial, it certainly helps in boosting sales for modern titles.

I think you’re wrong in putting Ridley as a choice by the community. I think he was picked due to the recent comeback of Metroid as in the past three years we have gotten a spin-off, a remake, and a tease for a whole new title coming to Switch, along with a New Nintendo 3DS variant and a car in Rocket League. Ridley was most likely put in due to Nintendo wanting to advertise Metroid as new titles have come out.

I completely disagree with Geno though as he has no bearing on modern Nintendo and is owned by a different company. The lengths to get him aren’t worth the trouble as Nintendo won’t get anything out of it as the only people who know Geno are long time fans and he can’t gain interest for any new titles. Similar to Krool, his Mii costume functions as the proper nod since taking time on characters who haven’t been relevant since the SNES seems like a waste when there are many new characters that should get attention, or older mascots that have been forgotten since the NES, like Pit, that could gain interest for a revival.

While I'm sure most people will agree that Smash does promote these games, you incorrect that its the sole reason characters are added. Extreme example: Cloud. What does he promote? Nintendo's consoles don't get a lot of Final Fantasy games, and FF7 never released on a Nintendo system. So why would he be in the game. In fact, as you stated, why would Nintendo go through the trouble to get it? The same can be said for the retro characters and the lot. I think you're mixing up Sakurai adding relevant characters as "characters are added for promotion." Metroid hasn't been a dormant series through Smash Bros's entire life. The high of Metroid (around 2001 through 2010) was around Brawl's release, so why didn't Ridley get in then when Nintendo could promote Metroid games. Nintendo already released Metroid Prime 3 only a few months before Super Smash Bros Brawl. Regardless of your reason, I don't think you can deny fan demand as a reason for Ridley's inclusions. Why else would they decide to show him at E3?

You're comments on Geno make no sense. Nintendo has already gone through the trouble of getting the rights to the past guest characters already including getting the rights to a Square Enix character. At this point, it wouldn't be much harder to get Geno, and they already had to do this for his costume in Smash 4.

I think I can explain it best this way. What is the point of Ultimate? Its a game whose biggest selling point is "Hey all the characters are back." Who is that going to appeal to the most? Naturally, long time Smash fans. Who else will care if Snake is in the Nintendo promotional game (a series that hasn't been on a Nintendo system in years). It was important to longtime fans who missed those characters. So if the game is targeting longtime fans, wouldn't one way to appeal to them is to bring in a character fans have been begging for since Brawl? From that standpoint, it makes perfect sense. That's not to say there won't be characters from more current games as there always is. But it would be silly to think that adding Ridley or Geno (if he's in) would not be based on fan demand when the game is specifically targeting them.

 

[Spider-Link]

How many characters do we think Sakurai can fit into this game? 69? 70? 75? 123?

Personally, I see him landing somewhere around 72.

 

[Deleted member]

How many characters do we think Sakurai can fit into this game? 69? 70? 75? 123?

Personally, I see him landing somewhere around 72.

A lot.

 

[Takasmash]

Im glade Sakurai not making people pay for veterans as DLC he respect his fanbase I was worry he will do a Capcom on the community see thats why MVC4 is trash.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Based on my observations of this Smash game, I think I'm onto at least something with my most recent predictions for newcomers. We're having less than even the smallest amount of newcomers from before (14, what Melee had) with base roster and meeting that number with DLC. This title also seems to be based on mostly fanservice, so I'm taking that into consideration here.

Base Roster Newcomers
1. King K. Rool - Sakurai has thrice now acknowledged and added a character who's popularity is primarily in the West, first with Diddy, then Little Mac, then Ridley. Knowing that at least amongst the online fanbase, K. Rool is popular in both East and West, and since there's never been any ill-will towards Rare created characters (Diddy and the Krystal assist trophy prove this), I think the King's time is finally here.

2. Ashley - With his insider information, Sakurai would likely know of the upcoming WarioWare: Gold and could theoretically have prepared a newcomer for promotional purposes; beyond this Ashley is incredibly popular in Japan and has notable popularity in America and Europe as well. Her assist trophy is currently missing from the roster, whereas other frontrunners and popular picks like Takamaru, Waluigi, and Bomberman have all been shown off.

3. Generation 7 Pokémon - Generation 7 is an incredibly important game to the Pokémon franchise, being the celebration of the 20th Anniversary of the franchise and providing a number of much-needed tweaks to the standard franchise formula; furthermore as with most Pokémon games sold like hotcakes. It was also heavily promoted along with a handful of 'mon in the game. While I don't personally see Mimikyu or Lycanroc likely, I could see either Incineroar or Decidueye making it playable (especially since we no longer are missing part of the type trio.)

4. Dillon - While this game is a bit more obscure, I can see Dillon chosen on uniqueness alone, representing either tower defense mechanics or cowboy tropes - as he connects to both themes. Furthermore, he had an upcoming game during development which as we've established Sakurai could have known about. He's also on Sakurai's radar as he was an assist trophy in the last game, and, like Ashley, is currently unseen in Smash Ultimate.

5. Spring Man - I wouldn't say he'd make it in if it wasn't for the fact this game's development is so different from past Smash titles. Veterans, despite having to be remade from the ground up, still take less time to make as they have an established design and movesets already created, and Sakurai has already stated not to expect too many newcomers; this combined with the fact we see an ARMS item appear in Smash Ultimate makes me think he could have been added on to the roster plan mid-development when ARMS was at the height of it's popularity, and as a fighting game itself it's easy enough to translate into Smash.

6. Dixie Kong [Possibly as an Echo Fighter/Semiclone of Diddy] - Dixie's relevance is ensured by her recent playable appearance in Donkey Kong: Tropical Freeze and the fact she shares a very similar body to Diddy means she could make for an easy clone or semiclone, or even a new "Echo Fighter" of Diddy. Sakurai's shown to take creative liberties when developing semiclones or echo fighters (such as Daisy), so it's possible he could do so with Dixie.

7. Impa [Sheik's Echo Fighter] - Sakurai's giving the Zelda cast a huge set of visual changes this time around, with each one representing a different title in the series, and being an actual Sheikah, seeing Impa utilizing the moves Sheik uses would not be a stretch. I think they'd likely go with her Skyward Sword design, as that most resembles Sheik's body type and is a currently unrepresented title in Ultimate.

8. Octoling [Inkling's Echo Fighter] - With the popularity of the Splatoon franchise being so massive, I don't think it's out there to see two playable characters enter the fray in the same game. Beyond this, Inklings and Octolings function exactly the same in their own series - making for a literal perfect Echo Fighter. Beyond that, they're popular amongst the Splatoon fanbase, are an additional villain representative (sort of?) and had the upcoming Octo Expansion in Splatoon 2 which Sakurai could have known about.

9. Simon Belmont/Rayman - One of these two third party franchises is likely to get represented; Castlevania is returning to relevance with cameos and the anime series, with rumored titles in the franchise to soon make an appearance. Konami is also fine with representation in Smash as Snake is returning and Bomberman, Simon's only true competition in-company is an assist trophy. On the other hand, Ubisoft's Rayman is already on Sakurai's radar as his franchise received not one, not two, but three trophies in Smash on Wii U, including Rayman himself. We've also already debunked the "no Western characters" argument and though he does like to meet with the characters' creator, Sakurai does go back on his traditions and words sometimes (see Ridley, Pac-Man, and Villager as good examples.)

DLC Newcomers
10. Rex & Pyra - Sakurai has stated on multiple occassions that he loves Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and the gimmick of Blade switching is a very easily translatable one. The franchise has been represented in Smash with Shulk, and despite releasing last year, it was Nintendo's holiday game and is still being supported.

11. Edelgard - Or any main character from Fire Emblem: Three Houses. I personally think Edelgard is most likely due to already being the fan favorite and the only one we know so far capable of wielding multiple weapon types. In addition; Three Houses comes out very soon after Smash and would be ripe for promotion. While Sakurai does think the franchise might be overrepresented, he didn't take anyone out and his team could easily convince him of another fighter's uniqueness.

12. Generation 8 Pokémon - This all depends on how soon we get Gen 8, but it's allegedly coming out next year and I think Sakurai might be supporting Smash with additional DLC for quite some time. Who it is, again depends on marketing, but it'll likely be a starter and the type not represented by the Gen 7 'mon (assuming it's Incineroar or Decidueye).

13. Simon Belmont/Rayman - Whomever doesn't get in the base game.

14. One Last 3rd Party - I don't know who, but something to try and top Cloud and Snake, someone big, popular, and guaranteed to sell.

 

[Chrollo.]

Oh **** I actually forgot about Ashley. I think she’s pretty likely too.

 

[Fane]

The most likely candidates right now are:
-K. Rool (seeing how popular demand made Ridley playable he has a decently good chance)
-Rex & Pyra / Elma
-Dixie as a clone
-Gen 8th Pokemon he sees worth or no new pokemon reps

Unexpected curveballs that Sakurai may consider (even as DLC):
-Isaac
-Banjo
-Springman
-Belmont
-It either has to be a new FE16 rep or no rep at all
-Crash

Never gonna happen but are expected for some reason:
-Decidueye (seriously who came up with this)
-Lycanroc (same thing as above)
-Mimikyu (seriously?)
-Bandana Dee
-Toad / Captain Toad
-Rhythm heaven rep
-Impa
-Ashley
-Geno
-Sora
-Medusa
-Shantae
-Shovel Knight
-Sans
-Any champion from botw
-Midna
-Skull kid
-Minecraft Steve (how is this even a thing?)

I agree with King K. Rool, Dixie, and Rex/Pyra.

Gen 8 Pokemon though...? Really? We don't even have the NAMES of those titles yet. They aren't even going to be revealed until next year and the games likely won't even come out until holiday next year. There's no way it'll happen unless it's DLC.

Decidueye/Lycanroc/Mimikyu are all likely Pokemon newcomers. Very popular in their respective games and they all have uniqueness to them. Decidueye is an archer that can fly. He can use Spirit Shackle, Brave Bird, Leaf Blade, and his Final Smash could easily be his unique Z-Move, Sinister Arrow Raid. Lycanroc has 2 different styles they could use. Bipedal Midnight form or his quadrupedal Midday and Dusk forms. He could use various moves like Accelerock, Stone Edge, Crunch, Counter, and again his final smash could be Splintered Stormshards. Mimikyu has a very unique gimmick in Disguise which could be utilized in a very creative way in Smash and could use moves like Shadow Claw, Play Rough, Wood Hammer, Feint Attack, and it also has a unique Z-Move that could be a Final Smash in the form of Let's Snuggle Forever.

Your 'curveballs':
Isaac, doubtful. Wasn't he removed as an Assist in Sm4sh? Why would he make a comeback as a playable character?

Banjo, big miss. Hell no.

Springman, not much of a curveball. Pretty sure everyone is expecting an ARMS rep.

Belmont, despite the 'leak', I'm still saying no. Ridley has been 'leaked' dozens of times(honestly...), Ice Climbers were a given, and anyone can 'guess' every fighter from the previous game would come back. I'm pretty sure most people are sick of third party newcomers at this point as well.

FE16 rep, nope. Maybe as DLC, but not on the main roster.

Crash, yeah, no. I just don't see that being likely.

'Never gonna happen':
Bandana Dee? Eh. Agreed. If they're going to do a Kirby newcomer I'd expect one of the Star Allies characters like Marx.

Toad is already deconfirmed, Captain Toad is still a possibility, but I don't think it's as likely as people think.

Rhythm Heaven rep, ehh... maybe? We know there was definitely one meant to be in Sm4sh from coding, but who knows if they ran out of time or just gave up on it altogether.

Impa, disagree. She could be a very likely Echo Fighter for Sheik.

Ashley, Geno, Sora, Shantae, Sans, Shovel Knight, Steve, all agreed. Big no. Midna is also an assist so she's deconfirmed.

Medusa, disagree. Probably the most likely Kid Icarus newcomer. Not sure if they'd go for another KI newcomer though.

Champions from BotW, slight disagree? If we're to get a new LoZ newcomer, I'd expect it to be one of the BotW champions, probably not Daruk, but the other three I'd say have a decent chance.

Skull Kid, might be wishful thinking here, but if we get a LoZ newcomer that is a villain, he'd be the most likely IMO. Very large fanbase and comes from a very popular LoZ game.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Bandana Dee? Eh. Agreed. If they're going to do a Kirby newcomer I'd expect one of the Star Allies characters like Marx.

But Bandana Dee is the first Dream Friend in Star Allies and Marx wasn't even in the base game -_-

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Even though sakurai has given us red herrings before, and we shouldnt hold on to his every word. Part of me thinks there will be some merit to his wording of not as many newcomers as before, maybe not even dlc to be honest. I think besides the 3 we already got, id say 4 or 5 is reasonable at most. Gotta remember unless hes planning to double up some characters, thats still a good amount of CG trailers theyd have to have made for those big reveals, we still have like 6 months, but i think big character reveals will be few and far between until we get another smash bros dedicated direct.

The man has pulled off bigger miracles so it remains to be seen. I dont want to damper anyones hopes, but the roster is mammoth, and tweaks and minor changes are happening everywhere. And we still dont even know what to expect from other game modes, online, and if theres a focused single player portion.

This smash bros is unlike any other, its banking hard on the everyone is here tagline, so i think it would honestly be better to keep some of our expectations in check if only a little.

 

[Heatswave]

What I'll think we could get:
Simon Belmont
- because of the (probably) credible leak
King K. Rool
- more likely since Ridley was dropped
Dixie Kong
- perhaps as an echo to Diddy, although it wouldn't do her justice imo
Shadow
-Sonic Echo
Rex (& Pyra)
- could be a Shulk Echo
Decidueye
- but not that likely anymore, as we already have 9 Pokemon reps
Captain Toad
- see Decidueye and as his gimmick is, that he can't jump, probably not
Pyro
Crash
Banjo & Kazooie
- would fit really well, B&K could be an echo to Duck Hunt, although I wouldn't want that
Captain Falcon Echo
- he's the only N64 character without a second rep (if you count Yoshi as Mario rep)
Dark Samus
- logical echo to Samus


What I want, but highly unlikely:
(Binding of) Isaac:
- I really love that game and it could be a really unique character, but probably not really suited for an all ages game

Definetly to much characters, we probably won't get more than 5 new (+3 echo) characters...

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Updated chess set with the good guys.

Spoiler

If you have any ideas for chess themes, feel free to tell me which characters should be which pieces.

 

[Spirit Toons]

While I'm sure most people will agree that Smash does promote these games, you incorrect that its the sole reason characters are added. Extreme example: Cloud. What does he promote? Nintendo's consoles don't get a lot of Final Fantasy games, and FF7 never released on a Nintendo system. So why would he be in the game. In fact, as you stated, why would Nintendo go through the trouble to get it? The same can be said for the retro characters and the lot. I think you're mixing up Sakurai adding relevant characters as "characters are added for promotion." Metroid hasn't been a dormant series through Smash Bros's entire life. The high of Metroid (around 2001 through 2010) was around Brawl's release, so why didn't Ridley get in then when Nintendo could promote Metroid games. Nintendo already released Metroid Prime 3 only a few months before Super Smash Bros Brawl. Regardless of your reason, I don't think you can deny fan demand as a reason for Ridley's inclusions. Why else would they decide to show him at E3?

You're comments on Geno make no sense. Nintendo has already gone through the trouble of getting the rights to the past guest characters already including getting the rights to a Square Enix character. At this point, it wouldn't be much harder to get Geno, and they already had to do this for his costume in Smash 4.

I think I can explain it best this way. What is the point of Ultimate? Its a game whose biggest selling point is "Hey all the characters are back." Who is that going to appeal to the most? Naturally, long time Smash fans. Who else will care if Snake is in the Nintendo promotional game (a series that hasn't been on a Nintendo system in years). It was important to longtime fans who missed those characters. So if the game is targeting longtime fans, wouldn't one way to appeal to them is to bring in a character fans have been begging for since Brawl? From that standpoint, it makes perfect sense. That's not to say there won't be characters from more current games as there always is. But it would be silly to think that adding Ridley or Geno (if he's in) would not be based on fan demand when the game is specifically targeting them.

To explain Cloud, he is a third party character, so he works a bit different from the Nintendo choices, like I stated previously with Ryu, Ryu’s addition was clearly to help advertise Street Fighter V because he came out around the same time as that game. While the newest Street Fighter wasn’t on Nintendo systems, Nintendo helped promote it as they wanted better relationships with third parties, which they really needed in the Wii U era. Cloud came out in the mist of the FF7 remake’s announcement, so Nintendo probably asked Square for a character and they threw in Cloud as he would gain a lot of attraction for both parties, helping Smash and the remake. In reality though, it solidified a trust between Square and Nintendo, which we can see with Square making exclusives for the Switch. Yes, the marketing is for a different developer, but it helps in saying that Nintendo’s got their back and you can trust them to make you successful, making third parties more willing to go to the big N as they will market their characters in a way Sony and Microsoft can’t.

As for Metroid, Zero Suit Samus was put in during Brawl as a way to fit the popularity and last Metroid boom, while Ridley was made a boss to better highlight the story mode of Brawl, since it lacked any real Nintendo bosses, so Ridley would be a big surprise that could get people interested. Plus, Sakurai went against the community with Brawl and seemed unaware of Ridley’s popularity, probably thinking that Zero Suit would be a better addition since she was a big part of a recent Metroid title being Zero mission.

Going over Geno, what would be the gain for him though, even neglecting Nintendo, Square never uses the character, so it doesn’t help anyone to put him in. The only people who know Geno are probably the hard core fans, which would alienate newer players, which Smash usually tries to grab first with character choices. To add on, Geno was only in one game, with one cameo appearance, so it’s not even like he’s representing a forgotten era,like say Krool. Super Mario RPG was a great game, but it’s had successors that make far more sense to pull from now, like Paper Mario. Other than some community interest, there’s really nothing going for Geno, so it’s hard to justify him making a return after a 20 year absence in a Smash title when there are still forgotten franchise mascots and many new characters/ franchise main characters who have yet to make it in.

 

[Zema]

Going over Geno, what would be the gain for him though, even neglecting Nintendo, Square never uses the character, so it doesn’t help anyone to put him in. The only people who know Geno are probably the hard core fans, which would alienate newer players, which Smash usually tries to grab first with character choices. To add on, Geno was only in one game, with one cameo appearance, so it’s not even like he’s representing a forgotten era,like say Krool. Super Mario RPG was a great game, but it’s had successors that make far more sense to pull from now, like Paper Mario. Other than some community interest, there’s really nothing going for Geno, so it’s hard to justify him making a return after a 20 year absence in a Smash title when there are still forgotten franchise mascots and many new characters/ franchise main characters who have yet to make it in.

I agree with parts of this, but again I think this argument falls a bit at the seams if you analyze it. Do Ice Climbers have a future as a game franchise? ...Does F-Zero, honestly have a future? Maybe, but Duck Hunt? Game & Watch? R.O.B.? ...Megaman, even? I'd even argue that Captain Falcon is more of a fighting game character now than a racing game character. His popularity is in great part due to Smash, and not the F-Zero games themselves. He's a Smash character now, moreso than an F-Zero character.

I also don't agree that the inclusion of Geno would necessarily alienate newer players. I definitely had no idea who a fair chunk of these characters were when I picked up Smash for the first time, but their inclusion didn't stop me from buying the game. I also think that Geno represents more than just the start of Mario RPGs - he represents a healthy relationship between Nintendo and Square that no other character really does. Sure, Cloud being in Smash is a strong example of Nintendo and Square Enix willingly working together... But Geno is a Mario character. Made by Square. You can't really get much more cooperative than that.

On another note, I've noticed that the only real thing Sakurai definitely doesn't do is add non-Japanese-designed characters, which is why I don't think characters like Banjo & Kazooie and Crash stand that much of a chance.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I agree with parts of this, but again I think this argument falls a bit at the seams if you analyze it. Do Ice Climbers have a future as a game franchise? ...Does F-Zero, honestly have a future? Maybe, but Duck Hunt? Game & Watch? R.O.B.? ...Megaman, even? I'd even argue that Captain Falcon is more of a fighting game character now than a racing game character. His popularity is in great part due to Smash, and not the F-Zero games themselves. He's a Smash character now, moreso than an F-Zero character.

I also don't agree that the inclusion of Geno would necessarily alienate newer players. I definitely had no idea who a fair chunk of these characters were when I picked up Smash for the first time, but their inclusion didn't stop me from buying the game. I also think that Geno represents more than just the start of Mario RPGs - he represents a healthy relationship between Nintendo and Square that no other character really does. Sure, Cloud being in Smash is a strong example of Nintendo and Square Enix willingly working together... But Geno is a Mario character. Made by Square. You can't really get much more cooperative than that.

On another note, I've noticed that the only real thing Sakurai definitely doesn't do is add non-Japanese-designed characters, which is why I don't think characters like Banjo & Kazooie and Crash stand that much of a chance.

Diddy Kong was designed by Rare, so he’s not Japanese.

 

[Spirit Toons]

I agree with parts of this, but again I think this argument falls a bit at the seams if you analyze it. Do Ice Climbers have a future as a game franchise? ...Does F-Zero, honestly have a future? Maybe, but Duck Hunt? Game & Watch? R.O.B.? ...Megaman, even? I'd even argue that Captain Falcon is more of a fighting game character now than a racing game character. His popularity is in great part due to Smash, and not the F-Zero games themselves. He's a Smash character now, moreso than an F-Zero character.

I also don't agree that the inclusion of Geno would necessarily alienate newer players. I definitely had no idea who a fair chunk of these characters were when I picked up Smash for the first time, but their inclusion didn't stop me from buying the game. I also think that Geno represents more than just the start of Mario RPGs - he represents a healthy relationship between Nintendo and Square that no other character really does. Sure, Cloud being in Smash is a strong example of Nintendo and Square Enix willingly working together... But Geno is a Mario character. Made by Square. You can't really get much more cooperative than that.

On another note, I've noticed that the only real thing Sakurai definitely doesn't do is add non-Japanese-designed characters, which is why I don't think characters like Banjo & Kazooie and Crash stand that much of a chance.

I’ve explained previously about the characters you mentioned, but I mine as well reiterate.

I didn’t mention F-Zero or Mother, so I’ll go over them first. The thing about these two is timing. They were New Comers of Smash 64, when EarthBound and F-Zero especially were still relevant. They just stayed long term, like many other characters due to already being established and Smash wanting to build instead of reconfigure the roster.

As for the other characters, they fall under the Retro character banner, which is usually filled by 1-2 characters per generation and almost solely revolves around the NES, with Game & Watch being the only unique case as he came before. These characters seem to be picked due to Smash never being in the era where the NES was recent to pull characters from, plus it throws a curveball in the roster, so the roster isn’t too predictable by most. I will also say that these characters are always mascots, R.O.B. represents the NES, Game & Watch represents Game & Watch, Ice Climbers for Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt for Duck Hunt, and Pit for Kid Icarus.

Mega Man is a strange case, as while he wasn’t the most relevant, he was a Capcom mascot. He could technically fit under the Retro character banner as he is basically known for the NES titles. My theory is that Capcom sent Mega man in as a way to get good will with fans as Capcom was hated prior to Smash, and Mega Man fans went after them hard even with two downloadable titles on Wii. Capcom basically built up Mega Man using Smash as soon after the Legacy Collection came out with the Smash Amiibo in gold, then a second Legacy Collection, then more emphasis on Mega Man in MVCI, and now a new title in the form of 11 coming out this year. Mega Man basically made a come back through Smash, so he did gain tons of publicity using Smash as a form of marketing.

Now the reason I don’t see Geno is that Square isn’t using him, nor is Nintendo. At least Mega Man had two sequels on the previous generation of consoles before Smash, and some cancelled titles that let people know Capcom was at least trying to use Mega Man. Geno has had only one really small cameo appearance since Super Mario RPG. Geno’s legacy is one game in which he isn’t even the main character. The problem with Geno is that he fits no category, he isn’t modern enough to be worth investing in, and he isn’t a retro mascot like Game & Watch. Geno is also a Mario character, which would make it even harder to justify as why use him over more prominent characters such as Daisy and Waluigi, or even Pauline who have a far greater appeal in showing off what the Mario series is.

I feel Cloud was a way better choice as Cloud is historic for Smash. Other than being the main face people think of when it comes to Final Fantasy, and having more modern appeal with a remake on the way, Cloud signifies that Nintendo and Square should have a better relationship in the future. Cloud was the character that Square used when they left Nintendo to work with their competition Sony. Cloud was basically a Sony mascot, yet when the time came, Square told Sony no to their version of Smash, All-stars, and sided with Nintendo. Cloud went from being the character to end all ties with Nintendo, to the one that unified the two companies.

 

[lltacx]

For me personally the roster would already be complete and i would not need any newcomers. However, the only newcomers i DO want are just dreams in the form of Skull Kid and Banjo-Kazooie. (No AT of Skill Kid is seen yet but that means nothing)

 

[AquaSol]

My wants include: King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Elma, Mimikyu, Isaac, Ray MK III, Dillon, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee.

My predictions: King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Elma, Mimikyu, Chorus Kids.
Edit: I also expect Bandana Dee.

 

[Takasmash]

My Top 6 Echo Fighters
Octoling
Black Shadow
Chrom
Ninten
Funky Kong
Toon Zelda

 

[Spirit Toons]

My Top 6 Echo Fighters
Octoling
Black Shadow
Chrom
Ninten
Funky Kong
Toon Zelda

Question; how would Toon Zelda be an echo fighter?
She’s smaller and has more cartoony proportions than regular Zelda, and she can’t doesn’t have the same moves as Toon Link.

 

[ChocolatGelgato]

One thing i think is worth noting is that it seems there was a cutoff point around 2016, with a few exceptions such as the botw/oddessy content and the minor nods to splatoon 2 in the inkling costumes/lil judd on moray towers. The main things i can see to guess this is that there iirc was an interview with the ARMS creator, who while gave an understandably vauge response on any ARMS characters in smash, he gave the impression that he genuinely didn't know about any characters in himself. Also, Inkling's final smash is the Killer Wail, which was actually pretty jarring seeing it on this brand spanking new game, so it sounds like they were going of only the first game for the character's development, and didn't expect or care about the splatoon 1 specials retiring for the sequel. Therefore, I don't expect any recent or recently relevant characters, like Spring Man, Rex and Pyra, or Crash (Who only got his big comeback last year). That said, I expect ARMS content to be a high priority for post game support.

Now I think for the characters, we will only really see hotly demanded ones, likely based on the ballot. With the newcomers taking a step back in this game, I would guess that the new focus would be to make each character count. I wouldn't expect many addtions to be just because it's new like Greninja and the swarth of FE characters or because Sakurai thinks it's funny like WFT. Instead, each character will likely be here for the count, aside from echos.

Now for who I personally am gonna guess:

Simon Belmont: That leaker could say he's bull****ting and we're all idiots, and i'd still say Simon's in, with Konami back for Snake, this guy is too perfect to ignore. Classic NES character second only to Mega Man, whip can provide something new to fight with (Yeah i know ZSS shhhhh) and a wide variety of sub weapons to make use of. I dont even play castlevania but ignoring this dude is a crime

Rhythm Heaven Character (Marshal or Tibby). We know someone from this series was cut from 4, and one of the two "mascot" characters for the series would make a great crazy character without being too overboard, I don't say chorus kids or karate joe because the kids would probably be pretty strange and gimmicky to make work and karate joe feels like one of those "not a fighter" guys, he seems to perfer just jabbing various objects out of the air to me. These characters could probably take elements from various minigames game and watch style, with maybe a nice timing gimmick to feed into the theme of rhythm.

Krool: Honestly I don't actually know what you could do with him aside from shoot his blunderbuss and a bit of boxing, but he's huge, even in japan he's the most requested. There's almost a subculture at this point dedicated to the idea of Krool in smash. I don't get it but loads of others do and those people are geniunely more important than this one pedantic binch's bad opinions, and with this game shaping up to be the game of requests, who else is better to add?

Geno: Yeah, this guy's one dusty old request that's kind of died out for cooler kids like Waluigi (for some reason) and Krool, but iirc sakurai himself said that he considers him a good idea. He has a variety of moves to choose from, and despite being "another mario rep" he's a very different beast to what we've seen from the other mario characters. I'm more wishy washy on this, but I mean, this IS the circumstances to add Geno if the idea is still there.

Bandana Dee or Magolor: Both hotly requested characters from Kirby, and from the game that pretty much got the series out of it's strange rut. From what i've heard, Sakurai doesn't personally care for more recent Kirby games himself, but that hasn't stopped Kirby from boosting in popularity over the time since Return to Dream Land, and it could be time for a 4th character, Bandana Dee is a spear based fighter who already has a smash-lite moveset to pool from, but magolor could have some wild potential with being a portal based mage character and is personally someone i really want in myself.

Wild Card: this is a cop out but I think there will still be one character literally no one can anticipate, like adding the Duck Hunt Dog to smash 4. I'm not sure how you could top that, but maybe it will be Goku from that one Famicom Disk System title. I mean, then you can say Goku finally got in smash.

Echos? I mean, I imagine only 1 or 2 would be hiding from us, but my 8 year old self says shadow in smash would be the coolest **** ever, and in 2018 thats still true because he runs like when you slide on laminated wood with your socks on

 

[Takasmash]

Question; how would Toon Zelda be an echo fighter?
She’s smaller and has more cartoony proportions than regular Zelda, and she can’t doesn’t have the same moves as Toon Link.

Well I cant explain it but she'll be the strong and faster Zelda version just like how T.Link was in Brawl.

 

[Curious Villager]

I feel like if Toon Zelda (And Dixie Kong) where to be re implemented, that Sakurai would probably just bring back the old plans he had for her in Brawl and develop her as a normal clone/semi-clone.

In fact, I think I'd prefer to have more proper clones and semi clones over echo fighters if we can't have too many unique newcomers this time around, Lucina and Dark Pit really didn't do much for me even though I'm normally cool with low priority quick to make characters.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well I cant explain it but she'll be the strong and faster Zelda version just like how T.Link was in Brawl.

Toon Link isn't an echo fighter. He's a regular clone.

Echo Fighters are not the same as other kinds of clones. People seem to forget that.

 

[Takasmash]

Toon Link isn't an echo fighter. He's a regular clone.

Echo Fighters are not the same as other kinds of clones. People seem to forget that.

No Im talking about the brawl days not Ultimate bro.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No Im talking about the brawl days not Ultimate bro.

Same thing.

Toon Link is a regular clone in that.

Echo Fighters are an extremely specific kind of clone that originated in 4. It's where they take a model and modify a few of its attributes, without changing their weight, no major model changes(Final Smash aside), and keep them nearly the same gameplay. Toon Link is no different from Young Link, a regular clone that shares mostly the same moveset but has a different weight and many different moves and how they functionally work.

 

[Spirit Toons]

One thing i think is worth noting is that it seems there was a cutoff point around 2016, with a few exceptions such as the botw/oddessy content and the minor nods to splatoon 2 in the inkling costumes/lil judd on moray towers. The main things i can see to guess this is that there iirc was an interview with the ARMS creator, who while gave an understandably vauge response on any ARMS characters in smash, he gave the impression that he genuinely didn't know about any characters in himself. Also, Inkling's final smash is the Killer Wail, which was actually pretty jarring seeing it on this brand spanking new game, so it sounds like they were going of only the first game for the character's development, and didn't expect or care about the splatoon 1 specials retiring for the sequel. Therefore, I don't expect any recent or recently relevant characters, like Spring Man, Rex and Pyra, or Crash (Who only got his big comeback last year). That said, I expect ARMS content to be a high priority for post game support.

Now I think for the characters, we will only really see hotly demanded ones, likely based on the ballot. With the newcomers taking a step back in this game, I would guess that the new focus would be to make each character count. I wouldn't expect many addtions to be just because it's new like Greninja and the swarth of FE characters or because Sakurai thinks it's funny like WFT. Instead, each character will likely be here for the count, aside from echos.

Now for who I personally am gonna guess:

Simon Belmont: That leaker could say he's bull****ting and we're all idiots, and i'd still say Simon's in, with Konami back for Snake, this guy is too perfect to ignore. Classic NES character second only to Mega Man, whip can provide something new to fight with (Yeah i know ZSS shhhhh) and a wide variety of sub weapons to make use of. I dont even play castlevania but ignoring this dude is a crime

Rhythm Heaven Character (Marshal or Tibby). We know someone from this series was cut from 4, and one of the two "mascot" characters for the series would make a great crazy character without being too overboard, I don't say chorus kids or karate joe because the kids would probably be pretty strange and gimmicky to make work and karate joe feels like one of those "not a fighter" guys, he seems to perfer just jabbing various objects out of the air to me. These characters could probably take elements from various minigames game and watch style, with maybe a nice timing gimmick to feed into the theme of rhythm.

Krool: Honestly I don't actually know what you could do with him aside from shoot his blunderbuss and a bit of boxing, but he's huge, even in japan he's the most requested. There's almost a subculture at this point dedicated to the idea of Krool in smash. I don't get it but loads of others do and those people are geniunely more important than this one pedantic binch's bad opinions, and with this game shaping up to be the game of requests, who else is better to add?

Geno: Yeah, this guy's one dusty old request that's kind of died out for cooler kids like Waluigi (for some reason) and Krool, but iirc sakurai himself said that he considers him a good idea. He has a variety of moves to choose from, and despite being "another mario rep" he's a very different beast to what we've seen from the other mario characters. I'm more wishy washy on this, but I mean, this IS the circumstances to add Geno if the idea is still there.

Bandana Dee or Magolor: Both hotly requested characters from Kirby, and from the game that pretty much got the series out of it's strange rut. From what i've heard, Sakurai doesn't personally care for more recent Kirby games himself, but that hasn't stopped Kirby from boosting in popularity over the time since Return to Dream Land, and it could be time for a 4th character, Bandana Dee is a spear based fighter who already has a smash-lite moveset to pool from, but magolor could have some wild potential with being a portal based mage character and is personally someone i really want in myself.

Wild Card: this is a cop out but I think there will still be one character literally no one can anticipate, like adding the Duck Hunt Dog to smash 4. I'm not sure how you could top that, but maybe it will be Goku from that one Famicom Disk System title. I mean, then you can say Goku finally got in smash.

Echos? I mean, I imagine only 1 or 2 would be hiding from us, but my 8 year old self says shadow in smash would be the coolest **** ever, and in 2018 thats still true because he runs like when you slide on laminated wood with your socks on

I feel this is untrue, Smash development probably started in 2016, but it’s gone on for a while. You have to remember that the Wii U slowed down with game production throughout 2016, so many titles could be finished for Switch, so development paths would collide, like in every other Smash game, like how Wii U collided with X and Y’s development giving us Greninja.

We know BOTW was in development for a long period of time, so it was of course represented, and Odessey was developed after 2013’s 3D World. If we’re to believe the trend then Xenoblade 2 probably started development after or during X which was a 2015 title, fitting the mark, so designs of Pyra and Rex could be sent to Sakurai. ARMS was made by the Mario Kart team which finished full development a few months before Smash’s first wave of DLC, giving them a chance to send development notes. FE Echoes was probably worked on after Fates if not during, giving the Smash team an easy inclusion of either Alm or Celica, plus the game’s a remake. Then Sun and Moon is the most obvious as it released in 2016, so Decidueye would be a valid choice. The only odd ball would be Kirby Star Allies, as something tells me that it was developed for the Wii U, but pushed back, And it would have probably started development in 2016 at the latest as Kirby Planet Robobot released that year.

 

[Takasmash]

Same thing.

Toon Link is a regular clone in that.

Echo Fighters are an extremely specific kind of clone that originated in 4. It's where they take a model and modify a few of its attributes, without changing their weight, no major model changes(Final Smash aside), and keep them nearly the same gameplay. Toon Link is no different from Young Link, a regular clone that shares mostly the same moveset but has a different weight and many different moves and how they functionally work.

I know Three Links are different from each other not saying they're clones didn't say that I know I main Young Link in Melee he use fire Toon Link is quicker and Link is moves is base one BOTW.

 

[SmashChu]

One thing i think is worth noting is that it seems there was a cutoff point around 2016, with a few exceptions such as the botw/oddessy content and the minor nods to splatoon 2 in the inkling costumes/lil judd on moray towers. The main things i can see to guess this is that there iirc was an interview with the ARMS creator, who while gave an understandably vauge response on any ARMS characters in smash, he gave the impression that he genuinely didn't know about any characters in himself. Also, Inkling's final smash is the Killer Wail, which was actually pretty jarring seeing it on this brand spanking new game, so it sounds like they were going of only the first game for the character's development, and didn't expect or care about the splatoon 1 specials retiring for the sequel. Therefore, I don't expect any recent or recently relevant characters, like Spring Man, Rex and Pyra, or Crash (Who only got his big comeback last year). That said, I expect ARMS content to be a high priority for post game support.

Now I think for the characters, we will only really see hotly demanded ones, likely based on the ballot. With the newcomers taking a step back in this game, I would guess that the new focus would be to make each character count. I wouldn't expect many addtions to be just because it's new like Greninja and the swarth of FE characters or because Sakurai thinks it's funny like WFT. Instead, each character will likely be here for the count, aside from echos.

So Spirit Toons already made a good point, but I want to add on to this (and its not you, I just hate this argument).

The "timing the roster" relies on a lot of assumptions to be valid. Namely

• When did Smash start development
• When did they stop choosing characters
• Where each game was at in development
• That Sakurai will not change how he develops this game.

If any of these are off, then entire argument falls apart. Even still, Smash has always added content from games that released the year prior including characters. Fun Fact, did you know Mother 3 released April 20th 2006 while Brawl was planned to release December 3rd 2007? Thats only 19 months. ARMS released in on June 16 2017. Smash Ultimate will release December 7th. Thats only about 18 months. So saying ARMS came too late is proposterous given the timeframe. Game development has also gotten longer since Brawl which is why Smash 4 has a stage from Mario Kart 8 (2014) and Yoshi's Wooly World (2015) when the game launched 2014.

My personal opinion is that most of the new content will come from newer games. Basically, content that couldn't have existed in a past game. We can already see that as the three new stages shown are all from games that released after Smash 4 (with the oldest releasing in 2015). I wouldn't doubt there would be more stages (and even characters) from games including Xenobalde 2, ARMS, 1-2-Switch, Star Fox Zero, Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer and so on. We are already seeing it with the new Pokemon and the three new stages.

On the flip side, while I think a character like Geno could get in due to fan demand, I don't think the roster will be just that. We've already seen fan favorite characters like Krystal, Waluigi, Bomberman and Lyn be made assist trophies. I think Sakurai is recognizing those characters that are popular, but popularity alone wont get them in.

Now, this wasn't to knock against you. People who have been here far longer have made the same argument. The issue I have with it is that when you look at the history of Smash Bros newer content does get in and its a common occurance. I think people aren't looking at past games or are trying to draw up everything to being a unique case. Newer content seems to be the norm. When you see one of the few newcomers is a new character (Inkling) and the new stages are from new games, you can see how the content is being prioritized.

 

[Fane]

I agree with parts of this, but again I think this argument falls a bit at the seams if you analyze it. Do Ice Climbers have a future as a game franchise? ...Does F-Zero, honestly have a future? Maybe, but Duck Hunt? Game & Watch? R.O.B.? ...Megaman, even?

Ice Climbers, Captain Falcon, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Game & Watch are all retro + classic characters that BELONG to Nintendo. There's literally no drawbacks in including these characters nor is there any additional unnecessary licensing issues and such that comes with third parties like Geno.

Mega Man is receiving a new game soon and he's one of the MOST iconic video game characters to date. There's a bunch of benefits of including him. Such as promoting the upcoming Mega Man game and drawing in Mega Man fans to the Smash series.(Which is pretty numerous)

What would Geno provide that the above don't? He's not exactly a widely known character to the degrees of Mega Man, Sonic, or Pac-Man and he isn't a major classic/retro character belonging to Nintendo.

There's not a huge benefit in dedicating a playable slot to Geno imo.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

There's literally no drawbacks in including these characters

development time

 

[Fane]

development time

The development time for these characters is significantly less than it would be for Geno for the simple fact that they've been playable in previous entries.

Geno would require brand new animations, a model, brainstorming for a fully fleshed out moveset, and the third party licensing. Most of what the older characters need is graphical touch-ups, number adjustments, new artwork, and sometimes new trinkets and stuff such as new Final Smashes or replacing old moves. Rarely do they ever require the amount of work that is needed for a new fighter.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

There are drawbacks. Maybe you didn't mean 'literally no' in the sense of 'absolutely no'.

 

[Spirit Toons]

Yo Fane, I literally went over this

To add on to your point though, Sakurai includes Retro characters to spice up the roster and fit in the era he missed being the NES. Also all his picks are mascots, and Geno is just a small part of a much larger franchise making his inclusion difficult to justify over a more prominent character such as Daisy or even Waluigi.

 

[Fane]

Yo Fane, I literally went over this

To add on to your point though, Sakurai includes Retro characters to spice up the roster and fit in the era he missed being the NES. Also all his picks are mascots, and Geno is just a small part of a much larger franchise making his inclusion difficult to justify over a more prominent character such as Daisy or even Waluigi.

Didn't see your post I guess.

Yep, that's very true. Geno is just such an obscure character to include and it's not worth the third party mumbo jumbo to please a fraction of fans. Characters like Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Daisy, etc... are just way more iconic and worthy of receiving a character slot. Unless they start to run out of ideas for newcomers, I doubt we'll see Geno unless he somehow wins a future Smash Ballot if we have any.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Didn't see your post I guess.

Yep, that's very true. Geno is just such an obscure character to include and it's not worth the third party mumbo jumbo to please a fraction of fans. Characters like Ridley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Daisy, etc... are just way more iconic and worthy of receiving a character slot. Unless they start to run out of ideas for newcomers, I doubt we'll see Geno unless he somehow wins a future Smash Ballot if we have any.

The idea that there’s any third party mumbo jumbo to be made is nonsensical when Cloud is in the game and when Geno was a costume for Smash 4.

We’re making up red tape. Why should Geno be in the game? The fans and Sakurai want him. That should be a good enough excuse.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

What I'll think we could get:

What I want, but highly unlikely:
(Binding of) Isaac:
- I really love that game and it could be a really unique character, but probably not really suited for an all ages game

As much as I actually kind of love the idea of Binding of Isaac in Smash, if he was to get in the game before Nintendo's own Isaac, I think I would have a stroke.

On another note, I hate the relevance arguments of Smash more than anything because I think it's an unsubstantiated claim on understanding how Sakurai picks newcomers that just happens to have just enough ground for people to stand on. That said, Geno totally has an in even in that world, advertising the SNES Classic. Which just came out last year, with Super Mario RPG on it. People always get super interested when a weird newcomer makes it into Smash, and Nintendo actually has something that they can sell with Geno in it. Smash has revived plenty of characters/made them popular after their debut, so I don't see how it can't be necessarily influential once again.