Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Chibi Robo: This franchise was dying a slow and painful death, and Ziplash seemed to be the nail in the coffin.

Correction: Chibi-Robo: Zip Lash was the nail in the coffin. It was a test to see if people liked the IP, and the game was garbage.

Wait, Marionics? Since when were many platformers high speed platformers, even?

Street Fighter and Tekken are VERY different though.

It'd be like seeing a Somari and calling it a Metroidvania.

I'm memeing! Leave me alone!
goes to cry in corner

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That isn't good logic. If Paper Mario is the large RPG, then does that mean Fire Emblem will die? I don't think Punch Out is dead.

They branded Origami King as an adventure game with puzzle-based combat though, not an RPG.

 

[CannonStreak]

Correction: Chibi-Robo: Zip Lash was the nail in the coffin. It was a test to see if people liked the IP, and the game was garbage.



I'm memeing! Leave me alone!
goes to cry in corner

Now there, it’s okay. I’m sorry for that.

 

[SharkLord]

what genres are your most wanteds from?

Grovyle - While technically debuting in a FinalFantamon, he really started mattering in the MysteryDungeon game Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers.

Maxwell - Tetriscrush

Bandana Dee - a hybrid between a Marionic and a RiverStreet

Reimu would be... Still Touhou-like, I guess? The only other bullet hell I can think of is Undertale, so I suppose it would be a Touhoutale game. If we're just going for shoot-'em-ups, I guess it would be... Graditouhou? I dunno...
Bandana Dee is, as you said, primarily a Marionic with some RiverStreet elements.
Klonoa is somewhere between a Marionic and a Crash64, due to the 2.5D gameplay.
Isaac is a straight Fantasyquest.
Alucard and Miriam are both metroidvanias.
Sol is either a Streetfury or a Streetkombat, depending on the region you live in. One could also argue that Guilty Gear started up a BlazGear subgenre, due to it's anime art style and fast-paced mechanics.

 

[GoodGrief741]

We can talk about the existence of LGBTQ characters without it turning into some hyperwoke nightmare discourse on intersectionality that eventually turns to tankie nonsense and genocide denial.

... what?

honestly i always found it a bit weird that the genre is called metroidvania

it's kinda like calling an fps a wolfendoom

That name is rad, can we make that a thing? At least, to refer to FPSes in the old Wolfenstein/Doom/Quake/Duke Nukem tradition, as opposed to the modern schools of Half-Life, Halo, CoD et al.

Besides, what would you even call Metroidvanias? Non-linear platformers?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

They branded Origami King as an adventure game with puzzle-based combat though, not an RPG.

Heck in the minds of some fans the quality of Origami King goes down quite a bit if you try and look at it as an RPG.

 

[TenghsienYang]

Heck in the minds of some fans the quality of Origami King goes down quite a bit if you try and look at it as an RPG.

It was honestly more like a Zelda game. I did quite enjoy it. The battles were a little jarring at times, but overall not a bad game at all.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Heck in the minds of some fans the quality of Origami King goes down quite a bit if you try and look at it as an RPG.

That's because it doesn't want to be an RPG. It's still 100% an RPG, but it wants to be an adventure game. That's why it's a bad game.

 

[cosmicB]

Did this happen while I was taking a break from SmashBoards?

Or is it Twitter?

Read the quoted post again. Resetera, not twitter.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Heck in the minds of some fans the quality of Origami King goes down quite a bit if you try and look at it as an RPG.

That's because they're looking at a game that isn't an RPG and thinking of it as an RPG.

Obviously it'd look trash with that mindset.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

That's because they're looking at a game that isn't an RPG and thinking of it as an RPG.

Obviously it'd look trash with that mindset.

Well, considering that Paper Mario started off as an RPG series (the first game was even intended to be a sequel to Super Mario RPG), I don't blame anyone for being upset that the latest games in this RPG series are not actually RPGs.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Obviously it'd look trash with that mindset.

I mean, a lot of people call it "Sticker Star 3" when its blatantly trying something new.

Quality of the game aside, its a bit dishonest to call it that.

 

[Deleted member]

Origami King isn't perfect, but it is no "Sticker Star 3".

I don't think we could even call Color Splash "Sticker Star 2".

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think we could even call Color Splash "Sticker Star 2".

Color Splash's quality aside, I understand that one. It's a an attempt to fix Sticker Star's structure.

Origami King ditches that structure for something else.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Origami isn't perfect, but it is no "Sticker Star 3".

I don't think we could even call Color Splash "Sticker Star 2".

Oh Color Splash was absolutely Sticker Star 2. It's writing may have gotten better, but battles still use one-use items and most of the required fights (i.e. literally the only ones that matter) are decided through the use of Things and are unwinnable if you don't have them.

Color Splash is better in pretty much every way in comparison to Sticker Star, but that's not saying much.

 

[Deleted member]

Off-topic, but I really feel like I did something wrong in this thread.

Color Splash's quality aside, I understand that one. It's a an attempt to fix Sticker Star's structure.

Origami King ditches that structure for something else.

Oh Color Splash was absolutely Sticker Star 2. It's writing may have gotten better, but battles still use one-use items and most of the required fights (i.e. literally the only ones that matter) are decided through the use of Things.

Color Splash is better in pretty much every way in comparison to Sticker Star, but that's not saying much.

I see, but Color Splash is an improvement at least, right?

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, aside from Tracer and possibly any Nintendo character, who else is LGBTQ in the video game world?

Poison from Final Fight/Street Fighter is trans.

 

[CannonStreak]

Poison from Final Fight/Street Fighter is trans.

Now, that is interesting, if I do say so, myself.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Off-topic, but I really feel like I did something wrong in this thread.

Nah, the only thing that you said that would even be considered weird was asking if Metroid was a Metroidvania.

I see, but Color Splash is an improvement at least, right?

Oh yeah, it's not soulless like Sticker Star was. It's just not good. It could have been with some tweaks to the combat and the removal of those stupid "bring them or instalose" cards, but that didn't happen.

Poison from Final Fight/Street Fighter is trans.

Like, she's a he? Or is this some next gen plastic surgery?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Nah, the only thing that you said that would even be considered weird was asking if Metroid was a Metroidvania.


Oh yeah, it's not soulless like Sticker Star was. It's just not good. It could have been with some tweaks to the combat and the removal of those stupid "bring them or instalose" cards, but that didn't happen.


Like, she's a he? Or is this some next gen plastic surgery?

Supposedly Poison was a cisgender character initially but I'm having trouble finding a definitive source on that. Early artwork at least labels her with a rather derogatory trans label. Poison being transgender was also used as justification to try and keep her in Final Fight amongst the localisation team's issues with being able to beat up a woman but in the end, Poison and her palette swap Roxy were replaced by male characters.

Poison also falls victim to the Japanese and localised versions of characters being different. According to Ono, in the US, Poison is a post-op transgender but in Japan, she, "Tucks her business away".

 

[Captain Shwampy]

So, aside from Tracer and possibly any Nintendo character, who else is LGBTQ in the video game world?

Rudolph and his twink lover from Groove on Fight

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I've heard that Isabelle is also bi, but I don't know how true that is.

pff well thats bull**** if I have ever heard it

Spoiler: Persona 5 Royal Spoilers

I heard Joker can date Akechi.

Could be wrong, I haven't played P5R.

fam, as a big fan of their chemistry, I WISH that could happen

 

[extremeturkey]

...I'm not sure we should be discussing things like this so casually.

Yes we should. Stop trying to quash discussions just because they regard lgbt topics.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well, considering that Paper Mario started off as an RPG series (the first game was even intended to be a sequel to Super Mario RPG), I don't blame anyone for being upset that the latest games in this RPG series are not actually RPGs.

In that case, why did the Prime games gain praise for taking a 2D Platforming Metroidvania and making it a FPS when the Vania stuff was amazing and timeless?

I think it's just a case of Paper Mario fans being really obnoxious about how much they love TTYD as if it was the best game on the planet and being unwilling to accept anything that differs from it.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

As for the LGBT stuff, my take is, if you feel "offended" by people merely speaking about their identities or the identities of others, there's likely a problem with you, and not them, and you gotta get over it because the world is changing and it always will be. LGBT entails nothing explicit or sexual unless you steer the conversation in that direction. Nobody should have to feel ashamed, or feel they have to keep quiet about who they are and what that means to them because god forbid Sensitive Sally might get a little upset.

And....... on another note, if Paper Mario games are no longer RPGs, what genre of games are they then? (Haven't played any of the newer ones.)

 

[SharkLord]

In that case, why did the Prime games gain praise for taking a 2D Platforming Metroidvania and making it a FPS when the Vania stuff was amazing and timeless?

I think it's just a case of Paper Mario fans being really obnoxious about how much they love TTYD as if it was the best game on the planet and being unwilling to accept anything that differs from it.

To be fair, Metroid Prime was just Metroid from a first-person perspective. It's still a metroidvania, just altered to fit 3D. Origami King, on the other hand, doesn't even know what it wants to be; It sticks to the Sticker Star formula, but it also tries to appease fans of the old games, but at the same time it's trying to be something new. It doesn't have a solid idea of "Okay, this is what our game will be," and that holds it back.

 

[3BitSaurus]

In that case, why did the Prime games gain praise for taking a 2D Platforming Metroidvania and making it a FPS when the Vania stuff was amazing and timeless?

I think it's just a case of Paper Mario fans being really obnoxious about how much they love TTYD as if it was the best game on the planet and being unwilling to accept anything that differs from it.

Because Prime was actually good and used the previous Metroid experiences to its advantage instead of needlessly trying to reinvent the wheel.

Hell, Super is also not an RPG in the same vein as TTYD and it's generally regarded as one of the best games in the series.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Because Prime was actually good and used the previous Metroid experiences to its advantage instead of needlessly trying to reinvent the wheel.

Hell, Super is also not an RPG in the same vein as TTYD and it's generally regarded as one of the best games in the series.

I have a take, if they were going to spite the first two games near-universally beloved gameplay, I would have MASSIVELY preferred that they commit to the Super style instead of this fustercluck of compromises plaguing each entry that's trying to somehow make every single fan happy while "subverting our expectations".

 

[AceAttorney9000]

In that case, why did the Prime games gain praise for taking a 2D Platforming Metroidvania and making it a FPS when the Vania stuff was amazing and timeless?

I think it's just a case of Paper Mario fans being really obnoxious about how much they love TTYD as if it was the best game on the planet and being unwilling to accept anything that differs from it.

SharkLord and 3BitSaurus said it best, but I'd also like to mention that the Prime games were a subset of the Metroid series that weren't trying to replace the 2D sidescrolling games. Even after the Prime Trilogy, we still got 2D games like Samus Returns.

Paper Mario, on the other hand, has completely ditched its RPG roots as of Sticker Star and has shown no signs of ever going back. It's the equivalent of the Metroid series suddenly and inexplicably ditching its exploratory action game roots and becoming a pinball game series after Metroid Prime Pinball.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I have a take, if they were going to spite the first two games near-universally beloved gameplay, I would have MASSIVELY preferred that they commit to the Super style instead of this fustercluck of compromises plaguing each entry that's trying to somehow make every single fan happy while "subverting our expectations".

Same. At least the gameplay in Super was still engaging, and they had the freedom to tell a good story.

Chapters 4, 7 and 8 in particular hold some of my favorite Paper Mario moments. They went experimental, but they knew what they were doing.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Hell, Super is also not an RPG in the same vein as TTYD and it's generally regarded as one of the best games in the series.

Hindsight is 20/20 on that one because I remember that game being hated on for not being a full-on RPG like TTYD until Sticker Star showed up.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I remember when people hated Super Paper Mario.

Times really change...

 

[3BitSaurus]

SharkLord and 3BitSaurus said it best, but I'd also like to mention that the Prime games were a subset of the Metroid series that weren't trying to replace the 2D sidescrolling games. Even after the Prime Trilogy, we still got 2D games like Samus Returns.

Paper Mario, on the other hand, has completely ditched its RPG roots as of Sticker Star and has shown no signs of ever going back. It's the equivalent of the Metroid series suddenly and inexplicably ditching its exploratory action game roots and becoming a pinball game series after Metroid Prime Pinball.

...Didn't they literally tell the fans to go play M&L if they wanted a Mario RPG? Even though there was 0 mechanical overlap between the two?

Not to mention that with Alphadream gone, Mario RPGs are essentially dead unless PM goes back to its roots. Which... sounds unlikely.

Hindsight is 20/20 on that one because I remember that game being hated on for not being a full-on RPG like TTYD until Sticker Star showed up.

Can't speak for anyone, but from my perspective, it was no different from Wind Waker hate. Lasted a few weeks post-launch, at best.

 

[Shroob]

Hindsight is 20/20 on that one because I remember that game being hated on for not being a full-on RPG like TTYD until Sticker Star showed up.

My own opinion, but I loved Super, and I actually really like Origami King.... except for the generic enemy battles.



The boss fights? I legitimately like those, even if a few drag on for a bit, because some of them have legitimately interesting mechanics behind them.

But I'm sorry, but the "LINE THEM UP!" **** for the regular-ass enemies gets very boring VERY fast.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

...Didn't they literally tell the fans to go play M&L if they wanted a Mario RPG? Even though there was 0 mechanical overlap between the two?

Timed hits.

Otherwise, yes, zero overlap, so that suggestion completely missed the point and gives me flashbacks of the whole "function" controversy of MvCI

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I remember when people hated Super Paper Mario.

Times really change...

I was a dumb kid when it came out so I didn't have any real baggage with it undertaking such a massive gameplay shift. At most I thought it'd be an experimental spinoff before the "real" Paper Mario 3.

I miss the days when I thought we were getting a Chain Chomp partner in Sticker Star...

 

[GoodGrief741]

In that case, why did the Prime games gain praise for taking a 2D Platforming Metroidvania and making it a FPS when the Vania stuff was amazing and timeless?

I think it's just a case of Paper Mario fans being really obnoxious about how much they love TTYD as if it was the best game on the planet and being unwilling to accept anything that differs from it.

I think it's about the quality of the games themselves. The Origami King, depending on how you look at it, is either an RPG with boring combat in which the fights have no reason to be, or an adventure game with no active combat that's constantly interrupted by the same puzzles repeated over and over again. Either way, it's a game that fails at what it's trying to be, because it makes so many compromises from a design perspective that it can't help but clash.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

...Didn't they literally tell the fans to go play M&L if they wanted a Mario RPG? Even though there was 0 mechanical overlap between the two?

Not to mention that with Alphadream gone, Mario RPGs are essentially dead unless PM goes back to its roots. Which... sounds unlikely.

I think one of the Color Splash producers in an interview with GameXplain did say that Paper Mario stopped being an RPG because Nintendo already had a Mario RPG in Mario & Luigi. Then there's the more recent interviews with Kensuke Tanabe where he essentially confirms that, albeit without specifically naming Mario & Luigi.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Like, she's a he? Or is this some next gen plastic surgery?

The long version:

POISON

It is a mystery that has haunted Metro City for two decades. The true identity of Poison has been a topic of debate for gaming historians, fightstick jockeys...

www.youtube.com

The first 3 1/2 minutes pretty much sums it up though.

 

[N3ON]

We did it. We went the whole page without mentioning Smash once.

Wait...