Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Dan]

That's because GameXplain only covers credible sources and info, and sorry, but I don't consider Vergeben to be credible because he made a few lucky guesses. The guy still is incredibly vague and refuses to take any responsibility.

I feel like he's the one that really brought Isabelle into the mainstream consciousness, and now that's she in, I'd hold a magnifying glass to him; he's gotten enough right, and if nothing else, he's the last one out there.

 

[Lukingordex]

It's pretty obvious we're going to have DLC, I find it amusing that some people think it's not gonna happen.

Anyway, considering Isabelle's reveal was followed by an animal crossing game reveal, this kinds of gives me hope that they might follow this pattern and reveal Crash and Spyro later as DLC along with the Reignited Trilogy Switch version and maybe a 2019 Crash game. A man can dream.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I feel like he's the one that really brought Isabelle into the mainstream consciousness, and now that's she in, I'd hold a magnifying glass to him; he's gotten enough right, and if nothing else, he's the last one out there.

Huh? Isabelle is one of the like three breakout characters for Nintendo for the past few years. As far as logical conclusions to certain characters go, she makes a ton of sense. Was the Smash community at large all that caring about her? Not really, but she definitely was a popular character with a significant chance of getting into the game some way. She's an easy sort of prediction to make (Though again primarily as an Echo prior to this). Isabelle isn't the main thing to give him credence as a leaker.

His best prediction so far has been Simon Belmont. As he had the least amount of traction of any unique newcomer we've seen so far prior to Verge, though he did have some and was definitely considered as one of the NES third parties that people wanted to see. I've seen the whole revisionist thing swing way too far back on him honestly. He was indeed talked about and wanted, just not like crazy post Vergeben.

I still have a rocky stance with Vergeben. In part, because even if he is legit, he's using so many different sources on info, that there's an above average chance that some of those will also be wrong. Ken is the first real Echo he has predicted, and not knowing Echo fighters all around seems strange. Daisy, Richter, Chrom, and Dark Samus were all completely unknown to Vergeben, as was King K. Rool. All stand out as red flags to me. And the whole Minecraft idea remains completely unproven and he hasn't really commented on it since first discussing it.

Even if he remains the most credible leaker, I haven't loved his style. The Pokemon newcomer situation I find to be handled extremely poorly as he slowly shaped that discussion instead of being upfront. And that's where he gets most of my flak, in his lack of transparency. He wants to "confirm" information before he leaks it. An admirable stance for a leaker, but I don't think nearly as helpful as he thinks it is. He seems to particularly come out of the woodwork AFTER a Smash presentation or major theory pops up. If he's known about Incineroar with this confidence for this long a time, there is no reason to have been waiting until after the box theory to mention him. The lack of transparency and giving more vague ideas as to give him an out makes him feel a lot less credible than he may really be.

Say what you will about Gematsu, but that leak was just upfront about everything.

 

[GamerGuy09]

This is currently my prediction if we take into consideration Vergeban and the 108 stages thoeries.
I'm discarding the Box Theory because it doesn't align with Vergeban's "Square Enix Character" which I believe either has to be Geno or Sephiroth.

Bandana Dee and Isaac are both highly requested newcomers that I believe are expected to appear. Felix is a good choice to be an echo fighter, especially due to the "Golden Sun Rathalos" picture having two characters that are similar to both Isaac and Felix.

For the 5 extra stages I believe four are for each of the newcomers with the last one being a Minecraft Stage.

Stage 1: Aether Paradise

For Incineroar I think we will need some Alola stage representation, thus a Pokemon stage at Aether Paradise makes a lot of sense to me. The location is pretty striking and would be a nice change of pace from the typical pokemon league stages.

Stage 2: Megaton Punch Championship

Bandana Dee will get a stage in the form of the Megaton Punch Championship. It would be pretty similar to Boxing Ring except that there are no ropes and there are breakable slabs of concrete in the center that drop items when attacked.

Stage 3: Venus Lighthouse

Golden Sun stage feels required.

Stage 4: Forest Maze

I'm fairly confident Geno if he's included will need his own stage. Since he's owned by Square Enix I don't think will be explicitly be classified as a Mario character.

Stage 5: Minecraft

Vergeban specifically said that there will be Minecraft representation in some form. I believe that this will be in the form of a stage. Imagine fighting on houses that Steve created, along with a Day-Night cycle that spawns Creepers and Zombies to attack the fighters.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Huh. So DLC is already planned I guess or...these are characters they can't finish in time that they wanted in the base?

Not exactly it’s morely that he’s going to check the box theory but he’s still sure on the Square Enix character

 

[Dan]

Geno will be a Mario character; SE is not getting an icon, and one game isn't exactly a franchise.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think if we're getting a new Pokemon stage with a new representative, it'll be Poke Floats 2. I'd expect the love of the original has to be known, and Pokemon generally gets new stages, so that'd be a good way to compromise and explain why the original didn't make it in to the game when so many other beloved Melee stages did.

I also think we'll get some sort of general Pokemon Direct like we did pre E3 2017 sometime this fall and see announcements on Pokemon Let's Go, Gen 8, possibly Pokemon Go and Pokken, and a nice trailer for a Pokemon newcomer in Smash Ultimate. At least that's my prediction that makes a lot of sense in my head (I don't believe we just have Incineroar left by the way).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I think if we're getting a new Pokemon stage with a new representative, it'll be Poke Floats 2. I'd expect the love of the original has to be known, and Pokemon generally gets new stages, so that'd be a good way to compromise and explain why the original didn't make it in to the game when so many other beloved Melee stages did.

I also think we'll get some sort of general Pokemon Direct like we did pre E3 2017 sometime this fall and see announcements on Pokemon Let's Go, Gen 8, possibly Pokemon Go and Pokken, and a nice trailer for a Pokemon newcomer in Smash Ultimate. At least that's my prediction that makes a lot of sense in my head (I don't believe we just have Incineroar left by the way).

Agreed I'd imagine it being Poke Floats (Alola).

 

[Captain Shades]

I didn't say going off leaks are bad nor did I say we shouldn't, I was using it as an example because it shows how much Minecraft is a none factor to the Smash community. I don't doubt it's a big deal for Smash to have it represented but overall the fan base hasn't asked for it nor care about it that much and only comes up so much now because the Vergeben leak.

Square didn't make Sakurai put Cloud in the game he specifically asked for Cloud. That's the character he wanted when he went to Square. He wanted to represent Final Fantasy in Smash and picked the character he felt best would rep the franchise.. Final Fantasy is a game that a lot of people wanted to see show up in Smash but Cloud seemed like a pipe dream more so than Geno. His lack of Nintendo representation often had him showing up on Dream roster lists because of his close association with Sony. Sakurai went above and beyond to get him in Smash. Why would he pick Cloud over Geno? Because Cloud is the more popular character that a lot of people wanted but never thought they'd see, but Sakurai always one step ahead knew Geno fans would be disappointed and put the Mii costume in there to throw his fans a bone. That's in the scenario that Ultimate wasn't already being discussed and he nabbed Geno for the upcoming game.

Smash for Wii U and 3DS was in a situation where it was on a dying console (in Wii Us case) and what better way to try and get the game high sales then to put 3rd parties in that were highly recognized Ryu, Cloud, and Beyonneta on the fact she was getting a new game exclusive to Nintendo. Not too mention the characters that were DLC were easy to develop, Cloud used Ikes model as a base, where Geno would be too unique like other characters who were omitted from Smash 4 DLC, like K. Rool...

Ultimate isn't under those circumstances. It's a game aimed at the dedicated Smash fan base. Huge wants like Ridley and K. Rool getting in.. faster speed to the game, the techs found so far favor the competitive community, all vets returning covers every past characters fan base getting their wish. I don't see Geno not getting in this game, or isaac, and I absolutely don't see Banjo not getting in considering they are the top 3 most hyped character's left in comparison to the characters we have left people are waiting on.

I get it you want Steve in the game... that's cool. Banjo has been asked for YEARS longer and much more. Minecraft is more than likely getting into Smash in some capacity since Vergeben has been pretty spot on. I personally don't see it being with a character... but maybe it will be. Banjo is the most wanted Microsoft want it's literally no contest, so if Steve gets in fans (aside from the Steve advocates) won't be happy.. Sakurai is aiming to please more than usual with this game in don't see him not getting Banjo.

I see your point, and I wouldn’t mind being wrong, but I feel MC has more to offer than people give it credit for. It’s a unique series that honestly takes way to much flak for things out of its control, like YouTube being flooded and the overall bad things that come out of its fan base.

While I could argue popularity, the fact is that different places yield different results, and we can’t just look at SmashBoards as the overall indicator of popularity. We all thought Ashley would make it, but she didn’t even though she was literally 2nd to K Rool on this site, but if you go and check other sites, then places like Gamefaqs show increasing amounts of hostility towards her. Same with the now popular Shantae, who gets nothing but hate on many different sites, mainly due to her fanbase throwing temper tantrums on places like Twitter.

I’m new to SmashBoards, so much of my experience on who’s popular may differ, but I remeber Shovel Knight having a huge amount of support on YouTube, same with K Rool. Bandana Waddle Dee was heavily requested throughout the ballot as well, and some predicted him for 4. Banjo got popular at the tail end of the Smash Ballot, going off of YouTube, so he was a little late to the party due to Microsoft announcing that their characters could be used very late in the running.

Minecraft was really big on Miiverse for the longest time, yeah I know, that site. Miiverse was flooded with MC content during the game’s golden years of 13-14, maybe even a little bit in 15. YouTube also holds some popularity with AdamzoneTopMarks making a trailer for him around Smash 4’s release and the Source Gaming video, each of which garner a very good percent that wouldn’t mind it, I’d say a pretty 50-50 response with many defending Minecraft in the comments. I guess what I’m trying to say is that there is a big following for the inclusion just as much as there is for people trying to kill it. MC has a great shot, Source Gaming even gave it a 75 above even more popular Nintendo picks such as Bandana Dee.

I don’t hate Banjo, and honestly I see him making it, I just think one has a higher shot and I believe that it really gets a lot of unwarranted hate especially For being a big player in shaping gaming just like Sonic, Mario, and the other 3rd party characters.

I guess to conclude, the state of Minecraft in Smash is a little unsure, though I believe it’ll probably be in. We have to remember that the project plans for Ultimate were basically finalized by 2015, so using Cloud to get Geno could be a possibility as Cloud was announced around the time of the project plan being done. It also leaves us in the state that Minecraft recently released on Wii U, which was a huge deal at the time as people on Nintendo platforms were asking for it for a few years now. Minecraft also wasn’t the dumpster fire of a game we look at today as the community wasn’t that bad and won’t be until a year later, so I think it’s completely acceptable to believe that MC could be the new 3rd party rep going off of the timing of Ultimate. While the Smash Community, mainly Boards, never directly asked for it, the popularity was there and the community did want an indie character, so Sakurai could have picked him, being the most stable and popular one with a good 4 years of popularity and Microsoft feeling the need to buy it out, Minecraft really did show the ultimate Indie success story, where as Shantae had varying degrees of popularity and a lot of hatred, and Shovel Knight was to new to gauge where he’d end up by Ultimate’s release in terms of people actually liking him. MC had a lot going for it, and while everyone thinks of it as a joke now, using the context of the time period, it could be very likely. He may not have had as many years of popularity as Banjo, which is unfair as Minecraft is relatively new so of course it’d have less, but he definitely left an impact, which could earn him the spot in the end even without Microsoft’s meddling.

 

[StormC]

Banjo got popular at the tail end of the Smash Ballot, going off of YouTube, so he was a little late to the party due to Microsoft announcing that their characters could be used very late in the running.

Not true, Banjo was dominant from the early days of the ballot. Here's a Reddit poll of ten thousand votes he won from the first month of the ballot:

Phil Spencer gave the okay for Banjo to be in Smash literally three days into the ballot.

Banjo isn't actually super popular on SmashBoards. He was much more requested on other sites, like Tumblr and Reddit.

 

[Captain Shades]

Not true, Banjo was dominant from the early days of the ballot. Here's a Reddit poll of ten thousand votes he won from the first month of the ballot:

Phil Spencer gave the okay for Banjo to be in Smash literally three days into the ballot.

Banjo isn't actually super popular on SmashBoards. He was much more requested on other sites, like Tumblr and Reddit.

Sorry trying to use memory so some things may get muddled, though I never recalled a long period of time during the ballot in which Banjo was a huge contender. Some mentioned him, but he seemed to be covered under the Rayman and indie support.

 

[StormC]

Sorry trying to use memory so some things may get muddled, though I never recalled a long period of time during the ballot in which Banjo was a huge contender. Some mentioned him, but he seemed to be covered under the Rayman and indie support.

Well, the SSB4 Dojo compilation poll with over 40k votes puts Banjo in third, behind K. Rool and Isaac. Banjo also won Tumblr's third party poll.

Now of course, this doesn't mean anything definitive. Nobody knows how well which character did on the ballot. But if K. Rool received a "ton of votes" on the ballot according to Sakurai himself... I truly believe Banjo was at least in spitting distance of that. Enough to at least be considered.

 

[Captain Shades]

Well, the SSB4 Dojo compilation poll with over 40k votes puts Banjo in third, behind K. Rool and Isaac. Banjo also won Tumblr's third party poll.

Now of course, this doesn't mean anything definitive. Nobody knows how well which character did on the ballot. But if K. Rool received a "ton of votes" on the ballot according to Sakurai himself... I truly believe Banjo was at least in spitting distance of that. Enough to at least be considered.

Not denying Banjo did well, I’m just saying that different places show different results is all. I was mainly using YouTube at the time of the ballot and Banjo seemed to rarely get brought up while Rayman, Shantae, Shovel Knight, the two joke picks of Goku and Shrek, and even a little bit of Bayonetta got brought up, while Banjo seemed to get overshadowed inthe midst of K Rool and Bandana Dee along with the other 3rd parties. The same goes for IFunny, which mainly played to the K Rool, Shovel Knight, and others crowd. To put it into perspective, I think I heard more popularity for Freddy Fazbear on those sites than Banjo, so no poll on one site should mean that much. K Rool was definitely popular though as you can literally go anywhere and see his name as pretty much number 1, I believe the ballot was good at shining light on his popularity, while the rest was somewhat of a train wreck to figure out.

 

[cybersai]

Starting to get the feeling Isaac isn't going to make it, and I don't see Banjo before DLC.

Geno has a shot if only because the Square rep confirmation from Verg and the big Mii-outfit splash last time. I'd like to think Dixie will make it too. I don't know about Skull Kid now either as much as I want him.

I don't know, we're coming up at the literal tail-end of newcomers here and obviously everyone isn't going to make it.

 

[Captain Shades]

Starting to get the feeling Isaac isn't going to make it, and I don't see Banjo before DLC.

Geno has a shot if only because the Square rep confirmation from Verg and the big Mii-outfit splash last time. I'd like to think Dixie will make it too. I don't know about Skull Kid now either as much as I want him.

I don't know, we're coming up at the literal tail-end of newcomers here and obviously everyone isn't going to make it.

I think we got 6 full new comers remaining and some echoes.

We’ll probably get Skull Kid next month in celebration of Halloween, then 5 more with Geno, Incineroar, Bandana Dee, Isaac, and a 3rd party (Microsoft) for the last Smash month(s)

Then a few echos to top it off, most likely being Shadow, Impa, Dixie Kong, Ken, and probably one for the new 3rd party, though I can see all previous 3rd parties getting echos as well as Matthew for Isaac.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Who I'm thinking honestly.

Unique Fighters:
Geno (70)
Incineroar (69)

Echo Fighters:
Dixie Kong(36e)
Impa(16e)
Ken(60e)
Shadow(38e)

Then DLC

Unique Fighters:
Bandana Dee
Banjo-Kazooie(76)
Isaac
Karate Joe
Rex & Pyra
Spring Man

Echo Fighters:
Black Knight(32e)
Felix
Medusa(54e)
Octoling(64e)

Including echos that would round up to 80 characters for Base Roster but 90 with DLC.

At this point I'm sadly inclined to believe Skull Kid may very well be a boss.

Note: I didn't list the DLC unique fighters as well as Felix due to being an echo of Isaac with numbers except for Banjo-Kazooie since I'd expect they'd be revealed last as this hype surprise since I don't know what order they'd be nor believe we'll be getting Ribbon Girl as she doesn't have the structure to match Spring Man as an Echo. Sakurai Bias also leads me to believe we may get a Kid Icarus rep hopefully being Medusa.

 

[Dan]

I'm super interested in seeing the fate of Isaac, Skull Kid and Karate Joe after the teasing; all have the potential of being playable, or Skull Kid could be a boss and the other two could be AT's, but it would be particularly weird to tease Isaac and Knuckle Joe and just have them just be assists. The Skull Kid hint could be the next Direct focusing on the single player and he's a boss.

Sakurai is dead set on a RH rep, and I feel like more people will be devastated if Isaac doesn't get in than Skull Kid; I like Skull Kid, but he's not begging to be playable. Frankly he would be better suited as a boss, and I don't think Sakurai would use the same scenery hint again if he was playable.

The speculation is fun but gets tiring after a while. Part of me just wishes we would get another ESRB leak; like we waited an extra week for the Direct and it was the most boring and blatantly obvious character.

 

[StormC]

I think we got 6 full new comers remaining and some echoes.

We’ll probably get Skull Kid next month in celebration of Halloween, then 5 more with Geno, Incineroar, Bandana Dee, Isaac, and a 3rd party (Microsoft) for the last Smash month(s)

Then a few echos to top it off, most likely being Shadow, Impa, Dixie Kong, Ken, and probably one for the new 3rd party, though I can see all previous 3rd parties getting echos as well as Matthew for Isaac.

I really doubt we have six full newcomers left, we'll be lucky to have half that. Sakurai said there are a "few more fighters" to announce during the 8.8 Direct, emphasized with a hand gesture... and he said that before K. Rool.

In the last seven months we've received five newcomers. Why would we suddenly get six more newcomers in three months? People have completely unrealistic expectations for this game and they only have themselves to blame when they don't get met.

Right now I'm thinking Incineroar, Geno, and maybe Banjo for base, but that's it for unique fighters.

 

[Dan]

My brother watched the Direct before me (I had it open in a tab so I wouldn't get spoiled). The first thing I asked was if it was a gay Rhythmn Heaven rep.

 

[Daedulus]

Steve? from Minecraft

i think there will only be 3 or 2 echos or newcomers

 

[Captain Shades]

I really doubt we have six full newcomers left, we'll be lucky to have half that. Sakurai said there are a "few more fighters" to announce during the 8.8 Direct, emphasized with a hand gesture... and he said that before K. Rool.

In the last seven months we've received five newcomers. Why would we suddenly get six more newcomers in three months? People have completely unrealistic expectations for this game and they only have themselves to blame when they don't get met.

Right now I'm thinking Incineroar, Geno, and maybe Banjo for base, but that's it for unique fighters.

Not to be that guy, but Sakurai said roughly the same thing during Wii U about returning fighters, then proceeded to bring back everyone except 5 from Brawl; Snake, Wolf, Lucas, Squirtle, and Ivysaur. (Ice Climbers were technically in Wii U and functioning, so I don’t count them) Then Sakurai added Dr. Mario back from Melee on top of that.

There’s been a precedence for Sakurai adding way more than he alludes to, plus even with 6 fighters, that won’t even make up the original roster from 64, let alone the future installments’ totals for new fighters, so it isn’t impossible. Actually he may include a 7th to that list, as this Smash seems focused on the idea of 64, literally starting you out with the original 12, then you can unlock 12 completely new fighters.

Sakurai’s crazy, plus with him not completely starting from the ground up, having a bigger team, and most likely not splitting his team up into two parts like what happened in Brawl and 4, he could probably pull it off as usual restrictions are gone this time.

 

[StormC]

Not to be that guy, but Sakurai said roughly the same thing during Wii U about returning fighters, then proceeded to bring back everyone except 5 from Brawl; Snake, Wolf, Lucas, Squirtle, and Ivysaur. (Ice Climbers were technically in Wii U and functioning, so I don’t count them) Then Sakurai added Dr. Mario back from Melee on top of that.

There’s been a precedence for Sakurai adding way more than he alludes to, plus even with 6 fighters, that won’t even make up the original roster from 64, let alone the future installments’ totals for new fighters, so it isn’t impossible. Actually he may include a 7th to that list, as this Smash seems focused on the idea of 64, literally starting you out with the original 12, then you can unlock 12 completely new fighters.

Sakurai’s crazy, plus with him not completely starting from the ground up, having a bigger team, and most likely not splitting his team up into two parts like what happened in Brawl and 4, he could probably pull it off as usual restrictions are gone this time.

As long as you aren't disappointed when this doesn't happen, then hey, dream big. But I've been in this Smash speculation business a loooooooooong time. People ALWAYS have pie-in-the-sky hopes for each Smash roster and they're never met each time.

 

[Captain Shades]

As long as you aren't disappointed when this doesn't happen, then hey, dream big. But I've been in this Smash speculation business a loooooooooong time. People ALWAYS have pie-in-the-sky hopes for each Smash roster and they're never met each time.

It’s not to high in the sky. Especially if they are using mii costumes as bases, then that should help remedy development time. I’m asking for less than a typical roster, so I still feel it’s in the guidelines of what Sakurai said.

 

[AngrySun88]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that people are underestimating the number of newcomers that we have left and that's not even counting DLC.

Personally, I think that box theory is complete bunk.

 

[RileyXY1]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel that people are underestimating the number of newcomers that we have left and that's not even counting DLC.

Personally, I think that box theory is complete bunk.

Yeah. If there were only 11 new fighters they wouldn't have revealed 5 of them in one direct.

 

[SonicMario]

Yeah. If there were only 11 new fighters they wouldn't have revealed 5 of them in one direct.

"They wouldn't do that!" isn't a viable way to discredit it.

As someone who does for now believe the theory but doesn't want it to necessarily be true (Though I'm pretty sure there's not many that do think it's true that actually want it to be). Reminder that the E3 Direct with Smash's part we got if you ignore "Everyone is Here!" was just one echo (Daisy) and one unique (Ridley). Next Smash direct could be just Ken, Incineroar, and the majority of the direct talks about details about the game modes like the mysterious Spirits mode. And maybe the first DLC character ala Smash 4 Mewtwo.

If it's wrong, I'll be just as ecstatic as most of you will be. But for now I see no reason to doubt it yet.

 

[Hot_N_Tasty]

It's little more than a gut feeling combined with pacing, but I think we're going to see 3-4 new unique fighters revealed between now and release, one of which is a DLC announcement like Mewtwo for Ultimate. I'm thinking if this were the case, in no particular order we'll see:

-Incineroar (Vergeben Leak)
-A Square Enix Character, let's say Geno despite me having no clue who it'd be (Also Vergeben)
-Bandana Dee (I'm least sure about this, could easily be Isaac/Rhythm Hevan/Retro/Who knows?)
-A microsoft Character (Who I think is the DLC)

I'm also inclined to believe we are getting five more stages like Corocoro said, and that they are all brand new ones. I can't imagine a returning stage being hidden when that many returning stages were revealed at once. Which I think will be:
-A pokemon stages (Hoping for ultra space)
-A stage for a series that currently has a character (my best guess here is a stage for R.O.B. another Splatoon stage)
-A stage for a series that has no playable characters (like Rhytym heaven if they don't get a fighter or maybe something like Pushmo)
-A Square Enix Stage
-A Minecraft stage

This is just barely educated guessing, but I just wanted to share my thoughts. How wrong am I Smashboards?

 

[Fane]

Sakurai seems to intentionally lower our expectations a lot so that we don't expect way more than we're getting.

That way we can be surprised that we actually get a little more than we expect, or exactly what we expect.

Personally I'm only seeing 3-6 more unique newcomers at best, based on which expectation he hits on the head. Either exactly what we expect(~3) or just a bit more(~4-6). I don't think he's been including echoes, as they're explicitly being paired with the character's they echo, they don't have their own number, and they don't introduce new movesets or very different playstyles.

 

[Lord-Zero]

So many people giving in to that Verge person’s leaks as if they were gospel and those leaks’ disappointing outcomes...really killed any excitement I may have had about the game.

 

[Dan]

Sakurai seems to intentionally lower our expectations a lot so that we don't expect way more than we're getting.

That way we can be surprised that we actually get a little more than we expect, or exactly what we expect.

If we are really ending on Incineroar, Ken and a potential Geno DLC announcement, then the reveal sequence was handled horribly; the newcomer class is solid all things considered (and already better than Wii U [DLC included]), but Ridley should have been the sun (final announcement) with K. Rool before him... it all should've been in reverse; I don't know what could've topped a final Direct opening with K. Rool and closing with Ridley, unless they have something as shocking as Cloud in store. E3 was hype enough that they could've put any character instead of Ridley there, and saved him for the end.

Literally everything they did from the announcement to K. Rool was a Godsend, but the Isabelle trailer left me with a sour taste in my mouth; if they end on what I just suggested though, I could live with it, just because of Geno.

 

[Aetheri]

Thought I'd post this real quick for fun...

A List of all confirmed female fighters in Smash (Including alts).
Smash 64:

Melee:



(Nana)
Brawl:

Smash 4:





:ultrobin
(Wendy)





Ultimate:

(Leaf)



Isabelle

Can be either gender/Unconfirmed:









IMO Most likely unconfirmed Smash hopefuls:
-Banjo & Kazooie (Kazooie of course being female)
-Elma
-Dixie Kong
-Impa

 

[Captain Shades]

I honestly think we are getting 6 more newcomer and a few echoes. Smash Wii U did a very poor job handling many of the bigger franchises with only Mario receiving multiple newcomers and Pokémon receiving one, and I believe that Smash Ultimate will rectify that, putting more emphasis on the heavy hitters in a similar fashion to Brawl. Here’s what I mean, leading into what I believe will be our roster;

The Golden 4 (Will Get a Newcomer + Potential Echo + Returning Veterans)
Super Mario Bros - The series already has Daisy who is important for representing spin-offs and Mario’s first steps onto handheld consoles (excluding Game and Watch), so she was important to represent things like Mario Kart and Land. Mario will get an actual newcomer though in the form of Geno, who represents the large RPG side of Mario as he was the first character to come from Mario’s steps into that genre. Geno is also speculated due to Verge leaking a Square character.

The Legend of Zelda - The series will have two reps, one echo and one original. The echo will be Impa, who got a surge of popularity due to Hyrule Warriors, plus she is the only non-Triforce weirder to be reincarnated for multiple entries in the series, being a staple 4th wheel. She is also the last remaining Shiekah in most titles, which is an extremely important race in Zelda, so she would be an easy Shiek clone. Skull Kid will then be the original character. He is known to be popular as Sakurai has commented in the past, plus he’s extremely iconic in that anyone can look at Majora’s Mask and instantly say Zelda. He hasn’t been shown as an assist yet and has hints in the room similar to K Rool, so the chance is high.

Pokémon - I can easily see Pokémon just getting one character due to getting 3 veterans back already, but Inciniroar will probably be the gen 7 rep due to Verge’s leaks. An echo for a gen 3 Pokémon may also be possible due to the recent remakes that were released in time for the ballot. Inciniroar will most likely be the only new Pokémon though.

Kirby - Banadana Waddle Dee will be the new comer as he’s super popular in the Kirby community and Japan, and people have been requesting for a 4th Kirby rep for years. He is also the missing member of the modern Kirby crew, so filling that obvious omission would be nice. As for an echo, then Galacta Knight or Dark Meta Knight due to their reoccurring villain status in recent titles, plus they’re creations of the modern Kirby team, so Sakurai may want to commend the work they’ve done without him.

The Loved B Tiers (Returning Veterans and Echo Central, Newcomers are Rare)
Metroid - We already have the two main villains of the two separate Metroid series, so it’s done.

Star Fox - We got Wolf back, so no need for anymore characters since that would just lead to a Kirby situation where there are obvious omissions if we get Slippy and not Peppy.

Donkey Kong - While we already have K Rool, Dixie Kong as a Chrom style echo may be put in to fill the omission problem as we have 3/4 of the SNES Donkey Kong Protagonists/Antagonists. All other DK characters are practically extras, so just getting Dixie makes sense.

Fire Emblem - There will be no completely new characters. Chrom will be one of two echos though, as while a Chrom was the popular pick, The Black Knight will be the villain pick to fill all the big franchises with villains. He can be an easy Ike echo, and the Castle Seige Black Knight armor is gone, hinting at his inclusion.

Animal Crossing - The series is probably finished with Isabelle, but who knows, an echo may show up, even if it’s Tom Nook like the trailer felt like it was hinting at.

The New Series (Newcomer + Echo)
Splatoon - While Inklings are probably good enough, and Octoling echo seems likely as that would bring in a Splatoon antagonist and they are very popular with the Splatoon fandom.

Golden Sun - The only series that’s super popular and has gone pretty much unacknowledged by Sakurai, especially in Wii U. I expect Isaac to appear as the 5th character after the golden 4 have their fun, as he is very popular and has been hinted at with that photo. Matthew may also be an echo of Isaac to add an extra bonus for Golden Sun fans

3rd Party
Castlevania - Already revealed with Simon as a newcomer and Richter as an echo

Microsoft? - They will get one franchise in the base roster, most likely are the three amigos; Halo, Banjo, and Minecraft. I’m guessing a new character plus an echo for the franchise, but since Verge said Minecraft, it’ll probably be Steve with an Alex echo, sorry.


Basically we will be getting Geno, Skull Kid, Inciniroar, Bandana Waddle Dee, Isaac, and a Microsoft rep as characters in the next few months as my prediction.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I honestly think we are getting 6 more newcomer and a few echoes. Smash Wii U did a very poor job handling many of the bigger franchises with only Mario receiving multiple newcomers and Pokémon receiving one, and I believe that Smash Ultimate will rectify that, putting more emphasis on the heavy hitters in a similar fashion to Brawl. Here’s what I mean, leading into what I believe will be our roster;

The Golden 4 (Will Get a Newcomer + Potential Echo + Returning Veterans)
Super Mario Bros - The series already has Daisy who is important for representing spin-offs and Mario’s first steps onto handheld consoles (excluding Game and Watch), so she was important to represent things like Mario Kart and Land. Mario will get an actual newcomer though in the form of Geno, who represents the large RPG side of Mario as he was the first character to come from Mario’s steps into that genre. Geno is also speculated due to Verge leaking a Square character.

The Legend of Zelda - The series will have two reps, one echo and one original. The echo will be Impa, who got a surge of popularity due to Hyrule Warriors, plus she is the only non-Triforce weirder to be reincarnated for multiple entries in the series, being a staple 4th wheel. She is also the last remaining Shiekah in most titles, which is an extremely important race in Zelda, so she would be an easy Shiek clone. Skull Kid will then be the original character. He is known to be popular as Sakurai has commented in the past, plus he’s extremely iconic in that anyone can look at Majora’s Mask and instantly say Zelda. He hasn’t been shown as an assist yet and has hints in the room similar to K Rool, so the chance is high.

Pokémon - I can easily see Pokémon just getting one character due to getting 3 veterans back already, but Inciniroar will probably be the gen 7 rep due to Verge’s leaks. An echo for a gen 3 Pokémon may also be possible due to the recent remakes that were released in time for the ballot. Inciniroar will most likely be the only new Pokémon though.

Kirby - Banadana Waddle Dee will be the new comer as he’s super popular in the Kirby community and Japan, and people have been requesting for a 4th Kirby rep for years. He is also the missing member of the modern Kirby crew, so filling that obvious omission would be nice. As for an echo, then Galacta Knight or Dark Meta Knight due to their reoccurring villain status in recent titles, plus they’re creations of the modern Kirby team, so Sakurai may want to commend the work they’ve done without him.

The Loved B Tiers (Returning Veterans and Echo Central, Newcomers are Rare)
Metroid - We already have the two main villains of the two separate Metroid series, so it’s done.

Star Fox - We got Wolf back, so no need for anymore characters since that would just lead to a Kirby situation where there are obvious omissions if we get Slippy and not Peppy.

Donkey Kong - While we already have K Rool, Dixie Kong as a Chrom style echo may be put in to fill the omission problem as we have 3/4 of the SNES Donkey Kong Protagonists/Antagonists. All other DK characters are practically extras, so just getting Dixie makes sense.

Fire Emblem - There will be no completely new characters. Chrom will be one of two echos though, as while a Chrom was the popular pick, The Black Knight will be the villain pick to fill all the big franchises with villains. He can be an easy Ike echo, and the Castle Seige Black Knight armor is gone, hinting at his inclusion.

Animal Crossing - The series is probably finished with Isabelle, but who knows, an echo may show up, even if it’s Tom Nook like the trailer felt like it was hinting at.

The New Series (Newcomer + Echo)
Splatoon - While Inklings are probably good enough, and Octoling echo seems likely as that would bring in a Splatoon antagonist and they are very popular with the Splatoon fandom.

Golden Sun - The only series that’s super popular and has gone pretty much unacknowledged by Sakurai, especially in Wii U. I expect Isaac to appear as the 5th character after the golden 4 have their fun, as he is very popular and has been hinted at with that photo. Matthew may also be an echo of Isaac to add an extra bonus for Golden Sun fans

3rd Party
Castlevania - Already revealed with Simon as a newcomer and Richter as an echo

Microsoft? - They will get one franchise in the base roster, most likely are the three amigos; Halo, Banjo, and Minecraft. I’m guessing a new character plus an echo for the franchise, but since Verge said Minecraft, it’ll probably be Steve with an Alex echo, sorry.


Basically we will be getting Geno, Skull Kid, Inciniroar, Bandana Waddle Dee, Isaac, and a Microsoft rep as characters in the next few months as my prediction.

I appreciate the optimism, that just seems like a bit too much for the basically next two and a half months. 6 unique plus Echo fighters? That’d just be so many fighters added and I imagine at most we have like 3 places for trailers left. An October Pokemon or single event reveal, and then two with the final direct...

Though why in the world would Steve need an Echo, they’re just skins in Minecraft as is...

 

[GoodGrief741]

I honestly think we are getting 6 more newcomer and a few echoes. Smash Wii U did a very poor job handling many of the bigger franchises with only Mario receiving multiple newcomers and Pokémon receiving one, and I believe that Smash Ultimate will rectify that, putting more emphasis on the heavy hitters in a similar fashion to Brawl. Here’s what I mean, leading into what I believe will be our roster;

The Golden 4 (Will Get a Newcomer + Potential Echo + Returning Veterans)
Super Mario Bros - The series already has Daisy who is important for representing spin-offs and Mario’s first steps onto handheld consoles (excluding Game and Watch), so she was important to represent things like Mario Kart and Land. Mario will get an actual newcomer though in the form of Geno, who represents the large RPG side of Mario as he was the first character to come from Mario’s steps into that genre. Geno is also speculated due to Verge leaking a Square character.

The Legend of Zelda - The series will have two reps, one echo and one original. The echo will be Impa, who got a surge of popularity due to Hyrule Warriors, plus she is the only non-Triforce weirder to be reincarnated for multiple entries in the series, being a staple 4th wheel. She is also the last remaining Shiekah in most titles, which is an extremely important race in Zelda, so she would be an easy Shiek clone. Skull Kid will then be the original character. He is known to be popular as Sakurai has commented in the past, plus he’s extremely iconic in that anyone can look at Majora’s Mask and instantly say Zelda. He hasn’t been shown as an assist yet and has hints in the room similar to K Rool, so the chance is high.

Pokémon - I can easily see Pokémon just getting one character due to getting 3 veterans back already, but Inciniroar will probably be the gen 7 rep due to Verge’s leaks. An echo for a gen 3 Pokémon may also be possible due to the recent remakes that were released in time for the ballot. Inciniroar will most likely be the only new Pokémon though.

Kirby - Banadana Waddle Dee will be the new comer as he’s super popular in the Kirby community and Japan, and people have been requesting for a 4th Kirby rep for years. He is also the missing member of the modern Kirby crew, so filling that obvious omission would be nice. As for an echo, then Galacta Knight or Dark Meta Knight due to their reoccurring villain status in recent titles, plus they’re creations of the modern Kirby team, so Sakurai may want to commend the work they’ve done without him.

The Loved B Tiers (Returning Veterans and Echo Central, Newcomers are Rare)
Metroid - We already have the two main villains of the two separate Metroid series, so it’s done.

Star Fox - We got Wolf back, so no need for anymore characters since that would just lead to a Kirby situation where there are obvious omissions if we get Slippy and not Peppy.

Donkey Kong - While we already have K Rool, Dixie Kong as a Chrom style echo may be put in to fill the omission problem as we have 3/4 of the SNES Donkey Kong Protagonists/Antagonists. All other DK characters are practically extras, so just getting Dixie makes sense.

Fire Emblem - There will be no completely new characters. Chrom will be one of two echos though, as while a Chrom was the popular pick, The Black Knight will be the villain pick to fill all the big franchises with villains. He can be an easy Ike echo, and the Castle Seige Black Knight armor is gone, hinting at his inclusion.

Animal Crossing - The series is probably finished with Isabelle, but who knows, an echo may show up, even if it’s Tom Nook like the trailer felt like it was hinting at.

The New Series (Newcomer + Echo)
Splatoon - While Inklings are probably good enough, and Octoling echo seems likely as that would bring in a Splatoon antagonist and they are very popular with the Splatoon fandom.

Golden Sun - The only series that’s super popular and has gone pretty much unacknowledged by Sakurai, especially in Wii U. I expect Isaac to appear as the 5th character after the golden 4 have their fun, as he is very popular and has been hinted at with that photo. Matthew may also be an echo of Isaac to add an extra bonus for Golden Sun fans

3rd Party
Castlevania - Already revealed with Simon as a newcomer and Richter as an echo

Microsoft? - They will get one franchise in the base roster, most likely are the three amigos; Halo, Banjo, and Minecraft. I’m guessing a new character plus an echo for the franchise, but since Verge said Minecraft, it’ll probably be Steve with an Alex echo, sorry.


Basically we will be getting Geno, Skull Kid, Inciniroar, Bandana Waddle Dee, Isaac, and a Microsoft rep as characters in the next few months as my prediction.

I agree with almost all of your predictions, but I really can’t see us getting a Microsoft character (or any other 3rd party, for that matter) in base game, so I’d replace Steve with Dixie or someone from an unrepped series like Chorus Kids.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I guess I do have a question in general. Why are you all believing that we might have 5-6 unique newcomers left? Again, I love that optimism in the face of recent situations, but I just can’t see it personally. I’m genuinely curious as to where that optimism comes from and definitely not criticizing the idea. Its speculation and the fun of it is having different opinions and good discussion after all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I guess I do have a question in general. Why are you all believing that we might have 5-6 unique newcomers left? Again, I love that optimism in the face of recent situations, but I just can’t see it personally. I’m genuinely curious as to where that optimism comes from and definitely not criticizing the idea. Its speculation and the fun of it is having different opinions and good discussion after all.

I think with the pace of reveals so far, and with how long we have until the game releases, character reveals will pick up speed, not slow down. Some of it could be wishful thinking, though, as I feel 6 unique newcomers is room enough for most of the big requests to be satisfied.

All things considered, 6 more unique newcomers gives us 11 total, which is still less than Smash 64’s roster. So I think it fits with Sakurai’s ‘not too many newcomers’ comment as well, and generally speaking is not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[blueneuronDOTnet]

Interesting post from /v/:

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think with the pace of reveals so far, and with how long we have until the game releases, character reveals will pick up speed, not slow down. Some of it could be wishful thinking, though, as I feel 6 unique newcomers is room enough for most of the big requests to be satisfied.

All things considered, 6 more unique newcomers gives us 11 total, which is still less than Smash 64’s roster. So I think it fits with Sakurai’s ‘not too many newcomers’ comment as well, and generally speaking is not out of the realm of possibility.

I agree that in the realm of Smash’s newcomers, 11 isn’t that many overall. I do wonder if Echo fighters count though. Cause that drastically will change the number of newcomers, and in some ways they feel as if they’re being treated as newcomers despite their relatively low development time. Especially with the returning 7 fighters we have from past games.

That “too many newcomers” comment can and has been interpreted in so many ways at this point. If we look at unique newcomers (numbered at least) we have 5. Add in the Echo fighters and we have 9. Add in the characters not present in the other games returning and we have 16... That’s already a lot of added characters no matter how you shape it. Which is kind of what worries me personally (Though remains an amazing achievement in my mind). We definitely have more Echos and unique fighters, so I wonder just how far that can go to be honest.

But yeah, six unique would be such a good number cause we’d likely end up with a Pokémon, Geno, Isaac, Bandanna Dee, and two others (possibly another third party blowout) and with those I see virtually everyone being pretty happy. Just with those and say another 4 Echo fighters just cause, then we’d be at an insane 26 additions... Would Sakurai go that far or even have been able to with everything else in this game?

I mean it does have the benefits of the same team from Smash 4 and using all of those assets that it can. It does have the benefit of not being split between two systems like Smash 4. And it does have the benefit of many of those additions either being characters with designed parameters (returning veterans) or easier development (Echo fighters), so I really do wonder how much they managed to get out of this development cycle. All the signs point to a ton of things, but characters are notoriously difficult additions according to Sakurai. I’m just so curious about the development for this game!

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I want some theory/leak to be debunked.
So far there are too many informations from several sources... leaks, box theory, corocoro 108 stages, etc.
I don't even know what to believe anymore.

I think the 108 stages thing is real... I have always been skeptical about the stages being 103, because when they have shown that Monster Hunter boss, I knew that Monster Hunter was going to get a stage and that the stage in question would have been additional to the 103 stages already announced.
Another hint was the Final Fantasy music. We're probably going to get more Final Fantasy songs, a lot of Final Fantasy games are coming to Switch, so there's no reason for Square to not allow Sakurai/Sora to use some of their songs in the game. They were obviously hidden to keep them secret.

There is that Karate Joe (Winows Server 2003) leak. It was so perfect, with precise informations and all... and at the end, Isabelle was revealed instead of Karate Joe, the leak was apparently debunked... but it's not, really. It already happend in Smash 4... someone leaked Shulk just before a direct, then... they revealed Captain Falcon and Robin during the direct, instead of Shulk. Everyone thought that the Shulk leak was fake, then, later, Shulk was announced for real.
The same may happen for Karate Joe.

Just with those 2 informations, we have 3 potential newcomers (A new Final Fantasy character, Monster Hunter, and Karate Joe), and you must add the Vergeben leak; the amount of potential newcomers would grow even more. Despite this, there is the box theory that says only 2 newcomers are remaining.
Evrey theory has some flaws and can be fake, every theory has a credible part, so there is no way to predict what's true and what's false.
I just can't wait anymore, I want to know...

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I want some theory/leak to be debunked.
So far there are too many informations from several sources... leaks, box theory, corocoro 108 stages, etc.
I don't even know what to believe anymore.

I think the 108 stages thing is real... I have always been skeptical about the stages being 103, because when they have shown that Monster Hunter boss, I knew that Monster Hunter was going to get a stage and that the stage in question would have been additional to the 103 stages already announced.
Another hint was the Final Fantasy music. We're probably going to get more Final Fantasy songs, a lot of Final Fantasy games are coming to Switch, so there's no reason for Square to not allow Sakurai/Sora to use some of their songs in the game. They were obviously hidden to keep them secret.

There is that Karate Joe (Winows Server 2003) leak. It was so perfect, with precise informations and all... and at the end, Isabelle was revealed instead of Karate Joe, the leak was apparently debunked... but it's not, really. It already happend in Smash 4... someone leaked Shulk just before a direct, then... they revealed Captain Falcon and Robin during the direct, instead of Shulk. Everyone thought that the Shulk leak was fake, then, later, Shulk was announced for real.
The same may happen for Karate Joe.

Just with those 2 informations, we have 3 potential newcomers (A new Final Fantasy character, Monster Hunter, and Karate Joe), and you must add the Vergeben leak; the amount of potential newcomers would grow even more. Despite this, there is the box theory that says only 2 newcomers are remaining.
Evrey theory has some flaws and can be fake, every theory has a credible part, so there is no way to predict what's true and what's false.
I just can't wait anymore, I want to know...

There’s no way they showed off Monster Hunter content before revealing that one was a newcomer. I know a lot of people have thought that might mean we were to get one, but we’ve never seen a third party franchise with a playable character get shown off AFTER the series was revealed to have content. That’s one of my most confident thoughts regarding Ultimate at this point. I don’t think the stage is guaranteed either cause Rathalos just looked like a story mode boss when they showed him off. I don’t think that in any way means we have a similar stage of the Ancient Steppe.

As for Final Fantasy, that’s been addressed multiple times. At this point, Square Enix and Nobuo Uematsu (Main composer for the earlier entries including 7) are on pretty bad terms, and getting music from Final Fantasy lies more in the difficulties of that situation. That’s why we only saw two tracks with Cloud and why it makes sense as to why we wouldn’t get new tracks from FF in this game. That in no way points to a FF newcomer as something being held back. Square and Nintendo can have an amazing relationship and it won’t change the situation for Final Fantasy tracks at all. That’s all dependent on how much of a legal headache and money Sakurai wants to go through for more music.

As for Karate Joe, he has a chance, but I’m pretty sure that specific leak got debunked completely. I forget that specific context as to how, but I remember things not matching up properly and people finding issues with the images. Shulk came with video footage of the game from the ESRB leak, and that had much more that was difficult to prove wrong.

I just don’t think any of those three can in any way be considered known newcomers. Especially Monster Hunter who I think just plain isn’t in the game as he would have been revealed with the other Monster Hunter content.