Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Goku flies. Why is this not like the first thing people think about when considering adding characters?.

If this is another "Ridley can't be added because he has indefinite flight" then don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

 

[FunAtParties]

Goku flies. Why is this not like the first thing people think about when considering adding characters?.

Other characters fly that are in Smash already. Mewtwo comes to mind.

 

[Ura]

When did i say i did exactly?

People can pretend they're against this, but if it happened, most people, even here, would be happy as ****.

I for one wouldn't welcome that as would many. Even if we're a "vocal minority" as people love to throw that term like it's candy.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Other characters fly that are in Smash already. Mewtwo comes to mind.

Mewtwo knows Fly when you catch it?

If this is another "Ridley can't be added because he has indefinite flight" then don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

He can be added, I just don't really understand how someone can care about the character and simultaneously want a defining feature of him removed.

 

[FunAtParties]

I for one wouldn't welcome that as would many. Even if we're a "vocal minority" as people love to throw that term like it's candy.

Rolls eyes

I hate Goku, but he's popular. I've been here long enough and seen the tone of the discussions when he's mentioned to know that a lot of peeps here (many of which love the guy) are only down on his inclusion because of the "no 4th party characters" rule that may end up disappearing at any time.

His inclusion would make a lot of people, even here happy as ****, I stand by it. The only reason people are so down on him rn, is because they don't believe he'll ever happen. I've seen similar things with Snake, Ryu, and I'd be willing to bet it'd happen for Goku as well.

Mewtwo knows Fly when you catch it?

Seeing that the Pokemon in Smash are heavily influenced by the anime, and Mewtwo flies away at the end of the first movie, I think you have your answer.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Seeing that the Pokemon in Smash are heavily influenced by the anime, and Mewtwo flies away at the end of the first movie, I think you have your answer.

The answer to my question is no.

 

[FunAtParties]

The answer to my question is no.

No, it's that you're being stubborn, but whatever. Plus there's always Charizard.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

No, it's that you're being stubborn, but whatever. Plus there's always Charizard.

He doesn't know fly, either :3

 

[FunAtParties]

He doesn't know fly, either :3

Charizard is the only evolution of a starter Pokémon that can learn Fly through HM02. However, it was unable to do so in Red and Blue. This was changed starting with Yellow, making it possible to still get a Charizard with Fly in the original games by trading one from a later version.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Oh yeah, of course he can learn it. The one in Smash just hasn't.

 

[Ura]

Rolls eyes

I hate Goku, but he's popular. I've been here long enough and seen the tone of the discussions when he's mentioned to know that a lot of peeps here (many of which love the guy) are only down on his inclusion because of the "no 4th party characters" rule that may end up disappearing at any time.

His inclusion would make a lot of people, even here happy as ****, I stand by it. The only reason people are so down on him rn, is because they don't believe he'll ever happen. I've seen similar things with Snake, Ryu, and I'd be willing to bet it'd happen for Goku as well.

No, it's because we just don't want to see him in the game or any 4th party character in the game. I already addressed were not the majority even though there's a lot of people that wouldn't like his inclusion.

Snake, Ryu, or any video game character is not comparable. Not even Cloud who people seem to think is this breakthrough character despite the fact that he hails from a series not even owned by a rival company. The difference is that those characters are video game characters and Goku is not.

 

[andimidna]

Lmao why are people talking about Goku in here

 

[FunAtParties]

No, it's because we just don't want to see him in the game or any 4th party character in the game. I already addressed were not the majority even though there's a lot of people that wouldn't like his inclusion.

I just think we're (yes, we, because we both don't want goku) a much smaller minority than you want to believe.

Snake, Ryu, or any video game character is not comparable. Not even Cloud who people seem to think is this breakthrough character despite the fact that he hails from a series not even owned by a rival company. The difference is that those characters are video game characters and Goku is not.

They're comparable because the reaction to them beforehand was the same. Snake came in when people dreaded the idea of having any 3rd party characters at all. Ryu came in when people thought fighting game characters weren't supposed to be in, you mentioned Cloud who was hated by many because of his lack of a Nintendo connection, yet how quickly did the vast majority of people change their minds?

 

[Opossum]

Oh yeah, of course he can learn it. The one in Smash just hasn't.

Actually, he can.

His up special is specifically listed as Fly.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Actually, he can.

His up special is specifically listed as Fly.

Well that was dumb.

 

[Deleted member]

He can be added, I just don't really understand how someone can care about the character and simultaneously want a defining feature of him removed.

I wouldn't say indefinite flight is a "defining trait" of neither Ridley or Goku.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I wouldn't say indefinite flight is a "defining trait" of neither Ridley or Goku.

How the hell is Goku post-Vegeta Saga going to fall off a ****ing ledge to his death?

 

[Deleted member]

How the hell is Goku post-Vegeta Saga going to fall off a ****ing ledge to his death?

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

...Have you watched Dragonball Z?

 

[Deleted member]

...Have you watched Dragonball Z?

Nope.
And we're getting off topic.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Nope.
And we're getting off topic.

I thought the topic was Goku flying.

 

[Morbi]

Lmao why are people talking about Goku in here

Because Goku is likely our new third-party character. In a post-Cloud world, no one is off-limits forever.

 

[Ura]

They're comparable because the reaction to them beforehand was the same. Snake came in when people dreaded the idea of having any 3rd party characters at all. Ryu came in when people thought fighting game characters weren't supposed to be in, you mentioned Cloud who was hated by many because of his lack of a Nintendo connection, yet how quickly did the vast majority of people change their minds?

Again, all of the characters you mentioned are video game characters, not 4th party ones. Not to mention all of whom weren't even exclusive to rival companies and who's series had some connection to Nintendo before hand. Not that Sony/Microsoft characters are off limits (even though I doubt it).

Sakurai even mentioned Goku in the same breath as Spongebob so that should paint the differences clear as day lol.

Lmao why are people talking about Goku in here

We live in a post-Cloud world where everyone and their mother thinks anyone is capable of getting in.

For all we know I could be the next character in Smash Bros. Just think about my moveset potential and relevancy lol.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

If Goku was in the game, that'd be pretty cool. But the consequences would be disastrous.
He would be the only character from anime/movies/whatever I'd let in, but I also understand that people would ask for, say, Naruto or Mickey. So I'm not technically against Goku himself, but against the fact that it would destroy what the game is supposed to be; a meeting of Nintendo characters.
I saw many wish rosters that include more third-party characters than Nintendo characters, and it already pinches my heart.
Now imagine if you also add other forms of medias, and you completely erase Smash Bros. identity.

 

[Ura]

If Goku was in the game, that'd be pretty cool. But the consequences would be disastrous.
He would be the only character from anime/movies/whatever I'd let in, but I also understand that people would ask for, say, Naruto or Mickey. So I'm not technically against Goku himself, but against the fact that it would destroy what the game is supposed to be; a meeting of Nintendo characters.
I saw many wish rosters that include more third-party characters than Nintendo characters, and it already pinches my heart.
Now imagine if you also add other forms of medias, and you completely erase Smash Bros. identity.

That's my problem exactly.

Smash is a celebration of video gaming, not pop culture.

 

[Morbi]

If Goku was in the game, that'd be pretty cool. But the consequences would be disastrous.
He would be the only character from anime/movies/whatever I'd let in, but I also understand that people would ask for, say, Naruto or Mickey. So I'm not technically against Goku himself, but against the fact that it would destroy what the game is supposed to be; a meeting of Nintendo characters.
I saw many wish rosters that include more third-party characters than Nintendo characters, and it already pinches my heart.
Now imagine if you also add other forms of medias, and you completely erase Smash Bros. identity.

I genuinely believe that Goku is more or less an exception. He has more history with video-games than most video-game characters, honestly. Beyond that, he actually has requests, a real demand.

Do not get me wrong, I am sure his inclusion would get a lot of people asking for other nonsensical choices. But I believe the focus would be spread far too thin as is (it is almost like that with third-party characters, at the moment). Goku is more or less a unified voice and probably did extremely well on the ballot (albiet, so did Shrek... So, yeah). That is the difference though, both are jokes, but one actually has a following in addition to that fact.

Either way, I definitely see your point. I just think about it from the perspective of "what could top Cloud" and Goku is the obvious answer. After Goku, there would be no clear answer because almost everything would be on the table. In fact, that is why I believe Sakurai made the rules in the first place. To focus the experience. And while Goku blurs that, I am not entirely sure if it would have a dramatic impact because there is always going to be an arbiter.

 

[Ura]

If you add Goku in, I see no reason to add other 4th party characters as well and turn the game in to Pop Culture Bros.

 

[Morbi]

If you add Goku in, I see no reason to add other 4th party characters as well and turn the game in to Pop Culture Bros.

Goku is still a third-party character. No matter what, even if this game focuses solely on Nintendo, it adds 5-10 Nintendo newcomers... We are going to hit a brick wall in terms of worthy characters. I would argue we very nearly hit it anyway. At that point, this point, more requests are coming for third-party characters, and that is why.

All I am saying is that a character should not be excluded merely because it creates precedent. Precedent can be overwritten.

 

[Ura]

Goku is still a third-party character. No matter what, even if this game focuses solely on Nintendo, it adds 5-10 Nintendo newcomers... We are going to hit a brick wall in terms of worthy characters. I would argue we very nearly hit it anyway. At that point, this point, more requests are coming for third-party characters, and that is why.

All I am saying is that a character should not be excluded merely because it creates precedent. Precedent can be overwritten.

That wall will never be hit. There's hundreds of characters you can still add that are worthy of inclusion. The notion of "we're running out of characters" is stupid and always will be.

The thing is it really can't. Like legit if i'm a casual fan watching a Direct with Goku revealed, what's stopping me from saying "Gee golly! Now I want to see Naruto, Spiderman, Spongebob, and Batman in the game!". Why would my requests be any less invalid then the requests to put in Goku? Is there an imaginary criteria i'm not aware of?

 

[Morbi]

That wall will never be hit. There's hundreds of characters you can still add that are worthy of inclusion. The notion of "we're running out of characters" is stupid and always will be.

The thing is it really can't. Like legit if i'm a casual fan watching a Direct with Goku revealed, what's stopping me from saying "Gee golly! Now I want to see Naruto, Spiderman, Spongebob, and Batman in the game!". Why would my requests be any less invalid then the requests to put in Goku? Is there an imaginary criteria i'm not aware of?

No, there really isn't. There are hundreds of characters that exist, sure; however, that is a far cry from deserving. I respect your opinion. That being said, I am almost 100% certain Nintendo agrees with me.

The requests would be valid, but again, there would be an arbiter and there are still plenty of licensing issues to consider. There is a reason most DLC characters were returning or third-party. If you do not believe history is about to repeat itself, so be it. All I can say is that most Nintendo newcomers are going to be from new games. Inkings, Spring Man, Rex, maybe even a "surprise" Labo character. Other than that, they will likely clean up. Ridley, Donkey Kong, another Mario, Pokemon Fire Emblem. We are not going deeper into Nintendo's IPs because there is no deeper. We are already scrapping the bottom.

 

[Ura]

No, there really isn't. There are hundreds of characters that exist, sure; however, that is a far cry from deserving. I respect your opinion. That being said, I am almost 100% certain Nintendo agrees with me.

The requests would be valid, but again, there would be an arbiter and there are still plenty of licensing issues to consider. There is a reason most DLC characters were returning or third-party. If you do not believe history is about to repeat itself, so be it. All I can say is that most Nintendo newcomers are going to be from new games. Inkings, Spring Man, Rex, maybe even a "surprise" Labo character. Other than that, they will likely clean up. Ridley, Donkey Kong, another Mario, Pokemon Fire Emblem. We are not going deeper into Nintendo's IPs because there is no deeper. We are already scrapping the bottom.

I don't agree with that sentiment. Not after a Smash Ballot was held. You underestimate how many characters out there are deserving of Smash inclusion.

I do expect to see newer characters take priority of course but there's still going to be cases like Bowser Jr. who was hardly relevant and on the chopping block as well as retro characters of course. Not that i'm arguing for any particular character but your short selling everyone else by saying "scrapping the bottom". I just don't like that term at all.

 

[MoveMan1]

If Wii Fit Trainer has taught us anything, it's that Sakurai likes scraping the bottom of the so-called barrel. It gives him unique movesets, unlike teleporty hadouken man.

 

[andimidna]

How are we even talking about Goku when huge characters like Toad, K Rool, and Dixie aren’t in yet lmaoo
Maybe they’ll make some exception in like Smash 20 but otherwise bye

 

[Ura]

I would even argue that the criteria for "the barrel" is completely arbitrary and is subjected to fan interpretation of who they think isn't worthy of Smash inclusion or personally think doesn't have a chance.

 

[BlazGreen]

The are no first party big names left to add. It's been B tier since Brawl.

 

[andimidna]

The are no first party big names left to add. It's been B tier since Brawl.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net..._crying.png/revision/latest?cb=20131224173759

 

[slambros]

How are we even talking about Goku when huge characters like Toad, K Rool, and Dixie aren’t in yet lmaoo
Maybe they’ll make some exception in like Smash 20 but otherwise bye

I was the one that basically started it because I saw that Funimation sent out a tweet asking for Goku in Smash; whether thet were serious or not, I'm not sure, but I thought it was something notable to post in the thread. I guess discussion really took off!

 

[RouffWestie]

I would even argue that the criteria for "the barrel" is completely arbitrary and is subjected to fan interpretation of who they think isn't worthy of Smash inclusion or personally think doesn't have a chance.

THIS so much.
The only thing we can do is wait for Sakurai to openly address why he adds or avoids adding certain characters. That usually adjusts peoples' expectations.

 

[Deleted member]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ollieb...-goku-join-the-fight-in-super-smash-bros/amp/

Funimation themselves are apparently asking for Goku...

Why is this story getting picked up by everyone?

Either Funimation was trolling or they're full of it. Hopefully the former.

Even if Funimation wants it, it's not solely up to them.
There's still Toei Animation, Shueisha, Akira Toriyama, etc.

This is why any manga/anime character is unlikely; there are too many hurdles to go through with rights to the character/franchise. Much more than your standard third-party.

While Goku would probably have the best shot out of any anime/manga character due to how he's been a big name in the Smash request scene these past few releases for whatever reason, it would take an insane amount of "Sakurai magic" and maybe a few rubs on the Buddha's belly to ever be a reality.

Goku flies. Why is this not like the first thing people think about when considering adding characters?.

Because that's one of the most trivial things to look at when it comes to someone like Goku.
All his flying would do would make him a lightweight just like Mewtwo and Rosalina. Nothing more.

 

[Ura]

THIS so much.
The only thing we can do is wait for Sakurai to openly address why he adds or avoids adding certain characters. That usually adjusts peoples' expectations.

Yeah outside of Sakurai's four/five criteria he mentioned in Famitsu, anything else is nothing else but speculation and hearsay on the part of the community. That's how I feel when people judge certain series and characters of what's "worthy".